View Full Version : At last... (Audiolab) - part III


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MrScott
24-01-11, 02:41 PM
Had a chance to have a long listening session yesterday and I'm even more impressed. Next step is to try the CDQ in balanced mode with some active speakers. Following your discussion of actives the other day, are there any designs you'd particularly recommend? Have auditioned Event Opals, Dynaudio BM12s, Klein & Hummel O300s, and Focal Solos and Twins, and liked all of the last three.

I'm not John, but I would like to give you the advice to check out the ADAM Compact Mk3 (Active Version) speakers before "wasting" too much money. You won't regret it, please believe me.

arthur
24-01-11, 03:08 PM
Hi.

I have a new cdq which I think is very good indeed and quite amazing for the money, top marks to John and Dominic.

I've been reading this thread (takes a while doesn't it?) and I need some speakers now too.

Do you think the Adam Audio pro stuff is good enough for the house?

I have a budget of £1000 and was thinking of a pair of P11a's

I have never heard a pair of active speakers so I'd quite appreciate your thoughts?

Arthur.

ChrisPa
24-01-11, 04:12 PM
Yes, I have experienced the same thing (although, only one day in) but I see it in a more positive light. the squeezebox, or Sonos, may create bit perfect copies of CDs (or very close) but the 'zone player' transports typically have much higher jitter than good CD players. They also introduce a more complicated signal path than a dedicated CDP/DAC unit. So I find it reassuring rather than disappointing that CDs sound noticeably better on the CDQ than their 'lossless' streamed counterparts via Sonos/Squeezebox.
Very well put. I hadn't thought of it like that
I don't find this reassuring.

I know all the reasons why putting the CD transport in with the DAC makes it easier to pull out a jitter free stream. I know that using a wordclock output from the DAC helps overcome the limitations of the spdif standard. Somewhere back at the beginning of this thread (see post #166 (http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1147127&postcount=166)) John spoke about the MDAC (and therefore I would assume and hope, also the QDAC) having an external clock loop to improve the jitter of external spdif devices

But the CD counterparts are bit perfect, and so 25 years after the creation of the CD digital standard and with the amount of silicon available at low cost ... I expect better

So, referring back to Dominic's comments in post #250 (http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1154947&postcount=250), I fully acknowledge that "the way to get the best results (jitter rejection) is not having to perform any". But despite Dominic's comment in that "There is no perfect jitter rejection in this world"...

on the basis that in high quality audio reproduction there is no limitation on time delay within the audio decoding process (this isn't HT and we don't need to sync image and sound), I can't see why data can't be pulled in and buffered and then clocked out in a perfectly stable, controlled and 'jitter-free' way. I do understand that this will/may introduce further circuit design and clocking problems and tasks.

None of this is intended as negative comments on what has been endeavoured and appears to have been achieved in the current designs - I'm waiting for the QDAC as it appears to be just the digital/analogue preamp I'm looking for. Prior to this (thread) I'd been eyeing up the Buffalo and Wyred4Sound offerings, but John & Dominic's designs do seem to genuinely advance the state of the art at a surprisingly low price point.

However, I think that something more universal should be possible for the 'digital source era' ;)

They really are just 0s and 1s

Chris

MrScott
24-01-11, 04:19 PM
Do you think the Adam Audio pro stuff is good enough for the house?

Most of the Adam Audio Pro stuff are "Nearfield Monitors" for studio work (which means one person in the small sweet acoustic spot is judging a mix and makes corrections). If you're out of that sweet spot the sound gets more or less weird. So, NO the Adam Audio Pro stuff is not meant to be run in a house (living room). That's the reason why Adam Audio has a Home Audio division as well. If I remember right the ADAM "Home Audio" Compact Mk3 (Active Version) is based on the ADAM "Pro Audio" S2X speaker, but I could be wrong.


I have a budget of £1000 and was thinking of a pair of P11a's

Forget the P11a's - both the much cheaper old (and no longer produced) A7 and it's follow up model A7x are better in every aspect except the lowest frequencies. But keep in mind these are Nearfield Monitors as well.


I have never heard a pair of active speakers so I'd quite appreciate your thoughts?

In theory active speakers do have an advantage over passive speakers, but it depends on who do you ask. ;) Sometimes the Built-in Amplifiers of cheaper active speakers (like the old ADAM A7) are a bit noisy if the music is too quiet.

amdismal
24-01-11, 04:21 PM
I can't see why data can't be pulled in and buffered and then clocked out in a perfectly stable, controlled and 'jitter-free' way.

That's it! You've done it! The crucial step of genius that the digital audio industry has been looking for all this time!

Unless it's a bit more complicated than you might think somehow... ;-)

LittleToast
24-01-11, 04:22 PM
I am using the Adam Compact Mk3 (Piano finish). My friend who runs a high end system with audionote monoblocks, shindo preamp, Avantgarde duo horns, turntable (not familiar with it) were pretty impressed with the Adam when he came listen. Really looking forward to try out the CDQ in my system. Where I am, the next batch will come only mid Feb. As I have my own transport, if I can only wait till April, DQ will be quite fabulous as well.

arthur
24-01-11, 04:26 PM
Hello MrScott.

Thank you for your thoughts. A bit of a bummer though as I had thought the Adam's were simply reboxed pro speakers.:(

Does this mean that the pro's 'beam' music at a certain spot as it were?

I don't seem able to find any s/h Adam's just about anywhere, perhaps they are so good they never leave the original owners? :D

arthur
24-01-11, 04:46 PM
I am using the Adam Compact Mk3 (Piano finish). My friend who runs a high end system with audionote monoblocks, shindo preamp, Avantgarde duo horns, turntable (not familiar with it) were pretty impressed with the Adam when he came listen. Really looking forward to try out the CDQ in my system. Where I am, the next batch will come only mid Feb. As I have my own transport, if I can only wait till April, DQ will be quite fabulous as well.

From what I can gather on this thread it seems the qdac may end up being a fair bit later than april.

If you are anywhere near Sunderland I could visit with my cdq :) that would help both of us out.

ChrisPa
24-01-11, 04:56 PM
I can't see why data can't be pulled in and buffered and then clocked out in a perfectly stable, controlled and 'jitter-free' way.
That's it! You've done it! The crucial step of genius that the digital audio industry has been looking for all this time!

Unless it's a bit more complicated than you might think somehow... ;-)

It was done in Chord DAC64

And it's what Dominik is referring to (again in post 250 (http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1154947&postcount=250))
" Asynchronous USB Audio is like a 'Clock Locked' CD transport and unlike an S/PDIF or Adaptive/Synchronous USB Audio"

So if a USB input can be "clock locked" why can't an intermediate "clock locked" module be implemented for a buffered spdif input?
... for that is exactly what an async usb input is for a computer

I know of two DACs which have done this, so "Unless it's a bit more complicated than you might think somehow" does rather miss the point for all the other DACs.

Most spdif inputs rely upon a PLL or desperately hope that async resampling will smooth over the samples.

My question here is one of genuine interest (Domink, John)
- what really are the problems with this?
rather than an "... it's a bit more complicated..." admission of defeat

BTW - the other one is the NAD M2, and I suspect there are others

Chris

Dominik
24-01-11, 05:37 PM
I don't find this reassuring.

I know all the reasons why putting the CD transport in with the DAC makes it easier to pull out a jitter free stream. I know that using a wordclock output from the DAC helps overcome the limitations of the spdif standard. Somewhere back at the beginning of this thread (see post #166 (http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1147127&postcount=166)) John spoke about the MDAC (and therefore I would assume and hope, also the QDAC) having an external clock loop to improve the jitter of external spdif devices

But the CD counterparts are bit perfect, and so 25 years after the creation of the CD digital standard and with the amount of silicon available at low cost ... I expect better

So, referring back to Dominic's comments in post #250 (http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1154947&postcount=250), I fully acknowledge that "the way to get the best results (jitter rejection) is not having to perform any". But despite Dominic's comment in that "There is no perfect jitter rejection in this world"...

on the basis that in high quality audio reproduction there is no limitation on time delay within the audio decoding process (this isn't HT and we don't need to sync image and sound), I can't see why data can't be pulled in and buffered and then clocked out in a perfectly stable, controlled and 'jitter-free' way. I do understand that this will/may introduce further circuit design and clocking problems and tasks.

None of this is intended as negative comments on what has been endeavoured and appears to have been achieved in the current designs - I'm waiting for the QDAC as it appears to be just the digital/analogue preamp I'm looking for. Prior to this (thread) I'd been eyeing up the Buffalo and Wyred4Sound offerings, but John & Dominic's designs do seem to genuinely advance the state of the art at a surprisingly low price point.

However, I think that something more universal should be possible for the 'digital source era' ;)

They really are just 0s and 1s

Chris

Dear Chris,

You are absolutely right - same data are same data and should ideally result in the same sound. Addressing this issue properly requires more silicon - preferably custom silicon - and that's the way we are going in the future. The current designs have a long and winding history where at the beginning (early 2008) was an attempt at the least complexity best bang for the buck DAC based on ES9008 with Async USB to be launched under Lakewest brand. The current and upcoming Audiolab range is a stretch of that design. It is by no means the best we can do, rather a solid design for the BOM target we had. A design which more or less rely on the ESS chip and it's ability to suppress incoming jitter, which in theory should work very well, but as you can see - not perfect. There are a number of reasons for that and we are going to address them while working on our own silicon later this year. The good news is M/QDAC will have an improved jitter rejection, but still not the ultimate solution.

Dominik

ChrisPa
24-01-11, 05:42 PM
Dear Chris,

You are absolutely right - same data are same data and should ideally result in the same sound. Addressing this issue properly requires more silicon - preferably custom silicon - and that's the way we are going in the future. The current designs have a long and winding history where at the beginning (early 2008) was an attempt at the least complexity best bang for the buck DAC based on ES9008 with Async USB to be launched under Lakewest brand. The current and upcoming Audiolab range is a stretch of that design. It is by no means the best we can do, rather a solid design for the BOM target we had. A design which more or less rely on the ESS chip and it's ability to suppress incoming jitter, which in theory should work very well, but as you can see - not perfect. There are a number of reasons for that and we are going to address them while working on our own silicon later this year. The good news is M/QDAC will have an improved jitter rejection, but still not the ultimate solution.

Dominik
Thank you

QDAC looks the right next step for me,
but I also have eager anticipation for whatever follows
...somewhere beyond 2012 I suspect

dlcastles
24-01-11, 05:50 PM
MrScott,
Thanks for the recommendation. It's for the Adam Classic Series Compact mk3, yes?
Can I ask where you bought them and what price they come in at?
The finish (and presence of grilles) on these appears to be far more living-room friendly than a lot of the pro-gear, but from general reading I'm not sure the pro-gear is necessarily a bad match to the home. The Focals, for example, are supposed to be near and midfield, so fine for a listening distance up to 3m. As always the ultimate test is what the system sounds like in your own house, but are the Adams designed to have a much deeper range than that?
Cheers, Duncan

LittleToast
24-01-11, 09:45 PM
From what I can gather on this thread it seems the qdac may end up being a fair bit later than april.

If you are anywhere near Sunderland I could visit with my cdq :) that would help both of us out.

I don't stay near Sunderland. In another country really. Bummer :)

Right now I am kind of stuck as I sold off some stuff and I only have left my CEC transport and the Adam Compact Mk3. I really need a preamp/dac.

BTW, the Adam Compact Mk3 only takes in balanced connection. Do note that. In my search, I think the Artisan Silver cables may be worth trying.

The DQ is different from the qdac. I think that's like the CDQ but without the cd transport. Last heard in this thread could be April/May time frame. I am not totally certain.

technobear
25-01-11, 02:10 AM
If you want the best out of the CDQ and must use a streaming device, the Logitech Transporter is the best choice.

An alternative for more money but the same performance and harder to use would be the Linn DS stuff.

The Squeezebox Classic is a budget source. The Squeezebox Touch is better but still not a Transporter.

Better and cheaper to get a quiet computer (or laptop/netbook) and connect it directly to the CDQ via USB.

When using USB, you may notice some ground borne 'processor noises' coming through from the PC if you have the volume way up high or have a very sensitive system. I have now taken delivery of a USB isolator and this cures that potential problem completely. It was £40 from here:

http://electronics-shop.dk/galvanically-usb_isolation

As for active speakers, if your considering the Adam Compact which I think is around £2800 a pair then also consider the The Rock by Unity Audio for £1850 a pair:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr10/articles/unitytherock.htm

http://www.dv247.com/studio-equipment/unity-audio-the-rock-single-2-way-active-studio-monitor--73347

Fender
25-01-11, 02:51 AM
Confused, why is this thread about a product allowed to advertise etc etc when if it was AVI it would be shot down?..

Dan.Scott1234
25-01-11, 03:45 AM
It is at least contained to this thread and all trade representatives are on labelled trade accounts so you know their angle (For want of a better word)

technobear
25-01-11, 03:48 AM
Confused, why is this thread about a product allowed to advertise etc etc when if it was AVI it would be shot down?..

There is no advertising. This thread is a discussion about the technical merits of a ground-breaking design. The thread was started specifically to discuss this particular design and has not deviated from it.

domho7
25-01-11, 03:59 AM
After following more than 90pages, I am impressed with this tread. I dont see any advertising but just discussion about the design and sharing of info about the product. :D

sq225917
25-01-11, 05:16 AM
Confused, why is this thread about a product allowed to advertise etc etc when if it was AVI it would be shot down?..

Because I started it, and I have no connection with John or Audiolab, own none of their products and have gained nothing from it. This thread is entirely on topic and has benefited greatly from the insight of both John and Dominic.

If we had been talking to some arsehole from the marketing dept then you might have a point.

It is interesting however to see how lovers of AVI and their paid shills attempt to appropriate this thread for their own ends every so often.

MrScott
25-01-11, 05:57 AM
MrScott,
Thanks for the recommendation. It's for the Adam Classic Series Compact mk3, yes?
Can I ask where you bought them and what price they come in at?

Yes, the Adam Classic Series Compact mk3 are great, especially if you prefer a neutral sound with lots of detail.
Bought mine from a dealer called "Hoerzone" in Munich (Germany) - demo models in new condition for 2000€.

MrScott
25-01-11, 06:05 AM
Does this mean that the pro's 'beam' music at a certain spot as it were?

Been a Adam A7 owner and user (in the studio) since the first day they came out - and yes at least this model is very sensitive regarding the correct position of the listener.


I don't seem able to find any s/h Adam's just about anywhere, perhaps they are so good they never leave the original owners? :D
Call your local distributor - he will help you for sure.

Personally been patiently waiting for the arrival of my CDQ....

Nielsen
25-01-11, 06:17 AM
Dear John or Dominik,

some CDQ User reported a remote control clash with their amps because of the RC5 Codes. Many common amps (e.g. Roksan, Sugden) using the RC5 Codes for their volume control and so do the cdq. This clash between the components will be really annoying if you want to use the CD/DAC remote controls with the CDQ and the volume control with the amp.

For instance, all Arcam DVD players have a hidden menu that allows for the standard RC5 system code to be changed to system code 12. This is to avoid RC5 code clash problems between different manufacturer’s components.

Is there a comparable function with the CDQ or will you add something in future firmware-updates? Perhaps a "CD player function/feature" which disable the volume control?

Kind regards and thanks a lot,
Niels

Fender
25-01-11, 06:32 AM
I'm hoping the following comment was not aimed at me.

"It is interesting however to see how lovers of AVI and their paid shills attempt to appropriate this thread for their own ends every so often."

Mine was just an observation.

Dan.Scott1234
25-01-11, 06:34 AM
MrScott,
Thanks for the recommendation. It's for the Adam Classic Series Compact mk3, yes?
Can I ask where you bought them and what price they come in at?
The finish (and presence of grilles) on these appears to be far more living-room friendly than a lot of the pro-gear, but from general reading I'm not sure the pro-gear is necessarily a bad match to the home. The Focals, for example, are supposed to be near and midfield, so fine for a listening distance up to 3m. As always the ultimate test is what the system sounds like in your own house, but are the Adams designed to have a much deeper range than that?
Cheers, Duncan

Hi Duncan,

I've got some Dynaudio BM5A monitors at the moment and am very happy indeed with them so far especially given the cost! I'm sure their bigger models would also be very good and worth a try.

TimR
25-01-11, 07:20 AM
If you want the best out of the CDQ and must use a streaming device, the Logitech Transporter is the best choice.

It's been very interesting reading the discussions around external v CD source.

I was originally going to hold out for the MDAC purely on the basis of the configurable clock-out option. But the more I looked, the more i realised that streamers with a clock-in are very thin on the ground. I did look at the transporter, but to be honest, the thought of paying £1K+ for a box with a "high quality internal DAC" that I have no intention of using made me feel slightly ill. Wouldn't this effectively just be a clock-locked SqueezeBox3? In the right hands, I can't help wondering if it is possible to clock lock the CDQ to an SB3 (giving me a transporter, but at a fraction of the cost). It would certainly be a mod that I'd be prepared to pay for - if nothing else, to help determine whether the relatively low SQ of the squeezebox (vs CD) is simply a jitter issue.

In the end though, I thought I should get the CDQ and wait for the market to mature in this area. No point having an MDAC with nothing to clock lock it to.

Dominik
25-01-11, 07:36 AM
Dear John or Dominik,

some CDQ User reported a remote control clash with their amps because of the RC5 Codes. Many common amps (e.g. Roksan, Sugden) using the RC5 Codes for their volume control and so do the cdq. This clash between the components will be really annoying if you want to use the CD/DAC remote controls with the CDQ and the volume control with the amp.

For instance, all Arcam DVD players have a hidden menu that allows for the standard RC5 system code to be changed to system code 12. This is to avoid RC5 code clash problems between different manufacturer’s components.

Is there a comparable function with the CDQ or will you add something in future firmware-updates? Perhaps a "CD player function/feature" which disable the volume control?

Kind regards and thanks a lot,
Niels

Well, the CDQ is a preamp and as such is not expected to be paired with another preamp or integrated but rather a poweramp. Clearly this expectation is quite often not met in field.
Thanks in particular to this thread, there is now a new menu option to respond to CD keys only or CD & Pre keys. It is shipping with the first batch of trigger enabled CDQs about to leave the factory now.
As per another request there is a discrete remote code for trigger on and off.

Dominik

sq225917
25-01-11, 07:47 AM
I'm hoping the following comment was not aimed at me.

"It is interesting however to see how lovers of AVI and their paid shills attempt to appropriate this thread for their own ends every so often."

Mine was just an observation.

So was mine, why ever would you feel it targeted you?

TimR
25-01-11, 08:54 AM
As per another request there is a discrete remote code for trigger on and off.Dominik

Hi Dominik, you just reminded me. Are there discrete codes for the external digital inputs? I'm finding it annoying that I can't switch directly without using the digital up/down select (or have I missed something?). If you have discrete codes, I can put them into my philips pronto. Thanks for any help.

Nielsen
25-01-11, 09:00 AM
Well, the CDQ is a preamp and as such is not expected to be paired with another preamp or integrated but rather a poweramp. Clearly this expectation is quite often not met in field.
Thanks in particular to this thread, there is now a new menu option to respond to CD keys only or CD & Pre keys. It is shipping with the first batch of trigger enabled CDQs about to leave the factory now.
As per another request there is a discrete remote code for trigger on and off.

Dominik

Wow! Thank you very much for the fast reply! Great Idea and feature, but i've already ordered a CDQ. So is it possible to update that feature on current CDQs via a firmware-update?

Edit: And when will hitting the new CDQ version presumably shelves in Germany?

Dazzor
25-01-11, 10:38 AM
Wow! Thank you very much for the fast reply! Great Idea and feature, but i've already ordered a CDQ. Is it possible to update that feature on current CDQs via firmware-update?

Also, silly question, how will I be able to differentiate batches so I know I'm getting an updated CDQ to work with Caspian integrated? Specific serial numbers perhaps?

I had a CDQ on loan this weekend and ran into issues with my Caspian M-1 series integrated in terms of IR signal for volume clashing as mentioned earlier.

I realise the CD version will do me but I want to able to go pre-power at a later date so a CDQ with the option of "Respond to CD-only" would be bloomin marvellous.

Thanks
Darren

pcavelle
25-01-11, 11:17 AM
Is there are way of connecting a sub to the 8200CDQ, at line level, if you are already using the balanced outputs?

thanks

arthur
25-01-11, 01:08 PM
Yes, the Adam Classic Series Compact mk3 are great, especially if you prefer a neutral sound with lots of detail.
Bought mine from a dealer called "Hoerzone" in Munich (Germany) - demo models in new condition for 2000€.

Lo again mrscott.

I bought some Adam Audio compacts today after your recommendations.

I don't think they are the mk3 though. They have a silver baffle and maple cabinet. I got them from unityaudio on ebay.

Should get them early next week I hope.. Looking forward to the active sound. :)

Cheers, Arthur.

arthur
25-01-11, 01:11 PM
As to the cdq......I've found that sometimes toggling between analogue and digital pre amps the left speaker goes dead!!!!:confused:

I have to swith off the unit for a while to reset it.

Does anyone know anything about this? Should I return it or hope the sticky relay if that's what it is unsticks itself?

bummer.

Dan.Scott1234
25-01-11, 01:13 PM
Is there are way of connecting a sub to the 8200CDQ, at line level, if you are already using the balanced outputs?

thanks

Interested in this myself - specifically for the MDAC though - the ability to connect to a sub and adjust the output crossover level on the MDAC would be great.

Calvin&Hobbes
25-01-11, 01:22 PM
Well, the CDQ is a preamp and as such is not expected to be paired with another preamp or integrated but rather a poweramp. Clearly this expectation is quite often not met in field.
Thanks in particular to this thread, there is now a new menu option to respond to CD keys only or CD & Pre keys. It is shipping with the first batch of trigger enabled CDQs about to leave the factory now.
As per another request there is a discrete remote code for trigger on and off.

Dominik

Hi Dominik,
I am already enjoying a CDQ .. in combination with an integrated. The reason for buying the CDQ instead of the CDplayer is simple: it was advocated by the significant improvements to the power supply circuit as listed by John on this forum.
Since firmware updates are not so simple as earlier explained by John: is there a simple solution to this, i.e. by controlling volume via the CDQ remote? I am confused if the digital preamp needs to be fixed to 0dB to get it out of the signal path or that dB can be varied on the CDQ without any detrimental SQ effect. Thank you, Paul

Dazzor
25-01-11, 03:12 PM
Hi Dominik,
I am already enjoying a CDQ .. in combination with an integrated. The reason for buying the CDQ instead of the CDplayer is simple: it was advocated by the significant improvements to the power supply circuit as listed by John on this forum.
Since firmware updates are not so simple as earlier explained by John: is there a simple solution to this, i.e. by controlling volume via the CDQ remote? I am confused if the digital preamp needs to be fixed to 0dB to get it out of the signal path or that dB can be varied on the CDQ without any detrimental SQ effect. Thank you, Paul

Out of interest, which integrated are you using?

Also, as I had issues with remote control command clashes with volume on both my Caspian and the CDQ I thought I'd try blocking the IR sensor on my Caspian and winding the volume right up to max in order to then use the volume control on the CDQ.

Not sure if having 2 pre-amp stages acting at once was detrimental to SQ as I soon discovered my Caspian got very warm very quickly...so I abandoned this course of action.

All I want is a simple option on the CDQ that locks the digital pre-amp volume ( set to 0db in my case) or as stated, an option to only sense CD commands.....But would this mean I can still operate other menu functions from the remote, like digital input selection and filter-toggling?

I really hope this volume-clash issue can be resolved without impacting on all other aspects of the CDQ's functionality in terms of using the remote-control.

Rgds
D

dre_
25-01-11, 03:13 PM
It's been very interesting reading the discussions around external v CD source.

I was originally going to hold out for the MDAC purely on the basis of the configurable clock-out option. But the more I looked, the more i realised that streamers with a clock-in are very thin on the ground. I did look at the transporter, but to be honest, the thought of paying £1K+ for a box with a "high quality internal DAC" that I have no intention of using made me feel slightly ill. Wouldn't this effectively just be a clock-locked SqueezeBox3? In the right hands, I can't help wondering if it is possible to clock lock the CDQ to an SB3 (giving me a transporter, but at a fraction of the cost). It would certainly be a mod that I'd be prepared to pay for - if nothing else, to help determine whether the relatively low SQ of the squeezebox (vs CD) is simply a jitter issue.

In the end though, I thought I should get the CDQ and wait for the market to mature in this area. No point having an MDAC with nothing to clock lock it to.

If I read correctly in a previous posting of this (very long) thread using the USB entry is far less prone to jitter, because of the asynchronous USB entry of the audiolab DAC. You can make a Squeezebox Touch use the USB as a digital out. It does take a "hack" though which is completely reversible. I did not try this myself, I only read it in a Stereophile article (october 2010). This URL points to a thread describing how to do it. http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=68346 I want to upgrade my current CD player with the CDQ and a squeezebox touch.

TimR
25-01-11, 03:23 PM
Thanks very much for this. Haven't looked at the link yet, but sounds like just what I've been looking for. I will investigate. Cheers...

Edit:
Just had a quick read.... This looks too good to be true!!

John/Dominik... could you possibly comment on whether you think this would work? I'm almost wetting myself at the thought of a silent, remote controlled, relatively cheap "black-box" streamer that can do 24/96 and take advantage of a jitterless connection into your wonderful DAC. Surely this would be a killer add-on ?

PS. I won't hold you to it, just after an "unofficial" steer as to whether this could be a goer.

dre... if this works, a drink is in the post

technobear
25-01-11, 03:38 PM
You can make a Squeezebox Touch use the USB as a digital out. It does take a "hack" ...

The question is, does the USB driver in the Touch implement asynchronous USB?

GaryB
25-01-11, 03:52 PM
Well, the CDQ is a preamp and as such is not expected to be paired with another preamp or integrated but rather a poweramp. Clearly this expectation is quite often not met in field.
Thanks in particular to this thread, there is now a new menu option to respond to CD keys only or CD & Pre keys. It is shipping with the first batch of trigger enabled CDQs about to leave the factory now.
As per another request there is a discrete remote code for trigger on and off.

Dominik

Got my shiny new (well black actually!) CDQ today and after only a few hours and a few CDs, I am extremely pleased with it so far. Looking forward to getting to grips with the DAC over the next few days.

I went for the CDQ (as opposed to the CD) based on the audio improvements discussed earlier. One thing I hadn't cottoned onto however is the issue of remote control volume clash with another pre-amp. I have a Musical Fidelity A5 pre/power combo and the CDQ remote changes the A5 pre volume and vice-versa (i.e. MF remote changes the CDQ volume). Obviously my unit is too early to have caught the new menu option. My question is - will I be able to get the firmware updated to include the mod?

My long-term preference would be for a totally different IR system code. I appreciate that the CDQ is in itself a pre-amp and it is not the norm to have two, but the A5 power-amp does have two inputs (switchable) so it would be nice to have totally independent control.

Gary

TimR
25-01-11, 04:05 PM
The question is, does the USB driver in the Touch implement asynchronous USB?

I'm not technical enough to know for sure, but the article does appear to be talking about making it work with a DAC supporting async USB. In fact, it says not to bother unless it does.

norriemal
25-01-11, 05:03 PM
I've been listening via optical for the last few days and tonight I went for it with the usb.
There is a very real improvement. Everything is just crisper somehow, more depth, more space within the music. I thought it sounded good before but I am so impressed with the step up gained by the usb.

Norrie

Dominik
25-01-11, 05:17 PM
Re: Squeezebox & USB - This was brought up earlier in this thread - Whether it works or not is entirely upto the capabilities of the particular version of ALSA drivers running on the embedded Linux of Squeezebox. You'll have to try - the odds are high.

Re: Firmware with CD only remote - Units shipping out from China as we speak will likely appear at the dealers in 3-4 months from now - it is the first batch with trigger outputs. Of course the software update can be applied to the old units as well - you will have to deliver your unit to Audiolab service center which should do the update for you free of charge. The menu is called Remote Decoding and options are CD Keys Only or CD & Pre Keys. The former does not respond to volume and mute, otherwise it behaves same as before.

I'm not a fan of RC-5, but that's what Audiolab always used, that's what the processor in 8000 series amps is programmed for and hence the 8200 series continue to use RC-5. Things are made more difficult due to CD, CDQ, tuner and the amps all sharing the same remote handset. Things are better on DQ since it uses a unique system code 13 which is "reserved" in RC-5 sys code sheet, so no clashes should occur there. M/QDAC is NEC code, thanks goodness, so the probability of any clash is miniscule.

No discrete codes for digital inputs on CD/Q yet - sorry. I might add more discrete codes in a later software release - will let you know.

Dominik

Dazzor
25-01-11, 05:28 PM
Re: Firmware with CD only remote - Units shipping out from China as we speak will likely appear at the dealers in 3-4 months from now - it is the first batch with trigger outputs. Of course the software update can be applied to the old units as well - you will have to deliver your unit to Audiolab service center which should do the update for you free of charge. The menu is called Remote Decoding and options are CD Keys Only or CD & Pre Keys. The former does not respond to volume and mute, otherwise it behaves same as before.


Dominik

Perfect for my requirement, thanks for clarifying this, much appreciated.

4 months is a bit of a wait though..:(

Thanks
Darren

jackbarron
25-01-11, 05:30 PM
As for active speakers, if your considering the Adam Compact which I think is around £2800 a pair then also consider the The Rock by Unity Audio for £1850 a pair:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr10/articles/unitytherock.htm

http://www.dv247.com/studio-equipment/unity-audio-the-rock-single-2-way-active-studio-monitor--73347

If I was after a pair of active monitors, I'd definitely be interested in these, because the amp section is the brainchild of Tim de Paravicini of EAR fame.

Jack

jackbarron
25-01-11, 05:46 PM
I've been listening via optical for the last few days and tonight I went for it with the usb.
There is a very real improvement. Everything is just crisper somehow, more depth, more space within the music. I thought it sounded good before but I am so impressed with the step up gained by the usb.

Norrie

That is interesting to know.

Jack

dtd
25-01-11, 06:02 PM
I've been listening via optical for the last few days and tonight I went for it with the usb.
There is a very real improvement. Everything is just crisper somehow, more depth, more space within the music. I thought it sounded good before but I am so impressed with the step up gained by the usb.

Norrie

What is your source device out of interest?

Dawg
26-01-11, 01:14 AM
If I read correctly in a previous posting of this (very long) thread using the USB entry is far less prone to jitter, because of the asynchronous USB entry of the audiolab DAC. You can make a Squeezebox Touch use the USB as a digital out. It does take a "hack" though which is completely reversible. I did not try this myself, I only read it in a Stereophile article (october 2010). This URL points to a thread describing how to do it. http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=68346 I want to upgrade my current CD player with the CDQ and a squeezebox touch.

Hi Dre, it was me that asked about the squeezebox earlyer as this is exacly how I intend to run, I did a little research and it apears the SB does not use the latest version of ALSA drivers that Dominik said it would prob need, there is hope however, there is a usb guru that has written new firmware including the new driver so it will work Async. Here is the start of the thread, http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82110 There are some caveats though, no MP3 or wireless support. If you want to get the most out of the touch and the cdq then this is worth a read if you havnt allready, I think the guy has a gui to switch the touch to usb rather than johns scrip. http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html
Unfortunately there has been probs using the touch with other Async dacs straight out of the box so if your looking at it then theres a bit of reading to do, I am still getting a CDQ from the next batch.
Alan

norriemal
26-01-11, 02:02 AM
Dtd

I am running J River Media Center with the wasapi drivers.

I did a lot of searching on the computer audio sites when I was looking to rip my cds to FLAC and there seemed to be a lot of posts claiming that Media Center sounded better than Foobar. I was so impressed I even paid for it.

Win 7 / wasapi was also getting the most votes on sound quality. (Unless your in the Apple camp)

Dbpoweramp appears to be the favourite for ripping the cds.

I just went with what I gleaned and have been more than happy, but there will be loads of people who have their own preferences.

Norrie

TimR
26-01-11, 03:26 AM
No discrete codes for digital inputs on CD/Q yet - sorry. I might add more discrete codes in a later software release - will let you know.
Thanks for the reply Dominik... please consider adding these codes, I think they are pretty essential as at the moment i can't find any easy way to switch back from analogue or home theatre to my last used digital source. Much appreciated :)

Dawg - sorry I missed you earlier post re: squeezebox, don't know how I managed that. If anyone has got a squeezebox touch that they could try with the CDQ over USB I wuold be extremely interested to hear whether this works.

Calvin&Hobbes
26-01-11, 04:56 AM
Hi Dominik,
Bought mine via the internet (Germany) and wonder if Audiolab Netherlands would do the firmware update for me.
Therefore, could you please answer this earlier question:
Does the digital preamp need to be fixed to 0dB to get it out of the signal path or can volume be controlled on the CDQ (shield the IR of my integrated amp) without any detrimental SQ effect?
Thanks C&H

reverendo
26-01-11, 05:01 AM
you guys just got me interested in the SB Touch discussion.
will be travelling to Europe next month and just might buy myself a CDQ. Since I get the VAT refund it might just be a wonderful buy. Gotta read into the SB Touch-USB thing, since it might be best to run it that way. Just don't have the time to read through both threads ATM. It'd be fantastic if anyone who has the SB Touch could actually test it.
best regards
André

dtd
26-01-11, 06:00 AM
Dtd

I am running J River Media Center with the wasapi drivers.

I did a lot of searching on the computer audio sites when I was looking to rip my cds to FLAC and there seemed to be a lot of posts claiming that Media Center sounded better than Foobar. I was so impressed I even paid for it.

Win 7 / wasapi was also getting the most votes on sound quality. (Unless your in the Apple camp)

Dbpoweramp appears to be the favourite for ripping the cds.

I just went with what I gleaned and have been more than happy, but there will be loads of people who have their own preferences.

Norrie


Hi,

Do you know what sound chip your using?

My DAC is in for repair at the moment so I dug out 2 soundcards, an Creative Audigy (emu10k2) and a terratec 6fire (envy24). Turns out the audigy will resample regardless, where as the envy24 would leave audio untreated.

Also did some research on the recent realtek chipsets with sp/dif, these can be found on most motherboards. Turns out certain driver versions can also lead to resampling too.

Dominik
26-01-11, 06:16 AM
Thanks for the reply Dominik... please consider adding these codes, I think they are pretty essential as at the moment i can't find any easy way to switch back from analogue or home theatre to my last used digital source. Much appreciated :)
Apart from discrete codes, how about the unit remembering last digital source when pressing the digital up/down when coming from CD or the analogues? That would seem a useful addition.

Hi Dominik,
Bought mine via the internet (Germany) and wonder if Audiolab Netherlands would do the firmware update for me.
Therefore, could you please answer this earlier question:
Does the digital preamp need to be fixed to 0dB to get it out of the signal path or can volume be controlled on the CDQ (shield the IR of my integrated amp) without any detrimental SQ effect?
Thanks C&H
There is no electronic circuit block associated with the digital preamplifier, therefore there is nothing to "get out of the signal path". By using digital pre mode, you are taking an analogue preamplifier out of the signal path. The level control is simply a scaling done in 32 bit digital domain. You cannot take the scaling operation out as it's inherently present internal to the DAC signal processing. By adjusting level on the unit, you are merely adjusting the scaling factor. When we say set to digital and 0dB, it means you will get nominal 2Vrms like the 8200CD at default settings. You can actually go to +3dB to get a somewhat hotter 2.8Vrms output if you like (both CD & CDQ) - this will give you the maximum output level out of the DAC.
I'm not sure which of our dealers have the programmer already, but our plan is to distribute them to each of them. Then it shouldn't be a problem I suppose as long as you take care of the logistics involved.

Dominik

norriemal
26-01-11, 06:42 AM
Set your onboard soundchip as the default for the computer. This stops all the windows noises getting in the way.

Then in foobar, media monkley, media center or whatever you use select the Asio drivers (or wasapi with win7) and send this to your soundcard. You can then play with the settings in the software and make sure settings are for no resampling and source bitdepth.

I was told that a good check is that the volume slider will not have any effect if set up with the cleanest path.

Not sure if that is the answer you are looking for. I think you need to download something like foobar and play around with the settings there.

TimR
26-01-11, 06:52 AM
Apart from discrete codes, how about the unit remembering last digital source when pressing the digital up/down when coming from CD or the analogues? That would seem a useful addition
That would be an excellent improvement, and would solve this particular issue nicely. I still think there's a requirement for directly selectable inputs though. One key-press is always better than several imho, and it's currently very easy to scroll past the input you are looking for and have to start again. I know this might not help anyone using the supplied handset, but those codes would be great for those of us with programmable remotes.

reverendo
26-01-11, 08:26 AM
That would be an excellent improvement, and would solve this particular issue nicely. I still think there's a requirement for directly selectable inputs though. One key-press is always better than several imho, and it's currently very easy to scroll past the input you are looking for and have to start again. I know this might not help anyone using the supplied handset, but those codes would be great for those of us with programmable remotes.
both these suggestions would be very useful... the input memory (with volume) and the one button input selection... would be fantastic!

Dominik
26-01-11, 05:03 PM
You guys are aware of the Input Level Trim on the analogue inputs, right? You can individually adjust levels on these inputs to match the digital ones. There's an assumption that all digital sources have essentially the same level as everything is mastered to 0dBFS - digital full scale.

Btw. did you know you can connect your iPad via Camera adapter to the USB port on your CD/CDQ and play lossless CD quality straight from the device? Or use some App to play from network storage - UPnP/DLNA.

reverendo
26-01-11, 07:31 PM
You guys are aware of the Input Level Trim on the analogue inputs, right? You can individually adjust levels on these inputs to match the digital ones. There's an assumption that all digital sources have essentially the same level as everything is mastered to 0dBFS - digital full scale.

Btw. did you know you can connect your iPad via Camera adapter to the USB port on your CD/CDQ and play lossless CD quality straight from the device? Or use some App to play from network storage - UPnP/DLNA.
Dominik,
maybe a future version 2 will have an ethernet input??? could it work with an UPnP/DLNA router with USB input for an external HDD?
best regards
André

Dominik
26-01-11, 08:06 PM
I don't think Apple will introduce Ethernet port for iPad. For music streaming, WiFi is perfectly fine. iOS devices are limited to 16bit/48kHz anyway and that is quite comfortable over wireless.

There are already numerous apps that can play from UPnP/DLNA media servers - like a router with external HDD. So all you need to do is get the Camera Connection Kit, link your iPad to the Audiolab's USB port, download an app of your choice and you are streaming your entire music library stored on the network!

http://www.personasoftware.com

reverendo
26-01-11, 08:11 PM
Dominik,
I was not referring to an iPad... my mistake in making you assume that. I was thinking of using an ethernet connection from a UPnP/DLNA router to the DAC and play files from an external HDD. Of course the router and HDD would be in another room. Wireless is fine, but my SB Touch works better a physical cable connection. I assume it has to do with having to do less things at the same time.
best regards
André

Remara
27-01-11, 04:56 AM
Dominik!

You have PM!

TimR
27-01-11, 06:03 AM
You guys are aware of the Input Level Trim on the analogue inputs, right?
Yes, and I'm using it to great effect to boost my turntable by 7db. Nice feature!

cstanpfm
27-01-11, 07:05 AM
OK, did a measurement of the temperature of the CDQ when it feels hot.

It is indeed between 40 to 46 degress C as mentioned by John.

So I guess I was worrying for nothing. :D Sorry.

Hi Dominik, according to the user manual, it is mentioned that the USB port on the CDQ can be used to upgrade some software for the CDQ.

So is this still valid? If so, what can be upgraded using the USB port?

If not, then I guess any upgrade will have to be done by the dealers right:confused:

TimR
27-01-11, 08:13 AM
I've snapped and ordered myself a Squeezebox Touch, which I'm expecting early next week. I'll report back on the USB connectivity unless someone else beats me to it.

I guess there's always ebay if it doesn't work :)

Nielsen
27-01-11, 09:37 AM
Dear Dominik,

the german distributor told me that they don't have your new firmware (with the CD player remote mode) or rather haven't received it yet. When will the firmware update be available in Germany? And can i patch the CDQ on my own?

Thank you very much!

Wayne C
27-01-11, 12:41 PM
My friend has decided to sell his 8200 cd at a bargain price so I am going for that , got a good deal on it £450 only 3 weeks old thought he was a bit mad but hey I wasnt complaining what so ever, may not be the CDQ but I only wanted the DAC function anyways.

Wayne

Interzone
27-01-11, 01:10 PM
Nice one wayne, £450 seems like a bloody good deal. Does the cd8200 have a digital volume control BTW?

Wayne C
27-01-11, 01:14 PM
I aint sure to be honest, demo'd that model in the shop and as I personally only have an integrated 8000s of yesteryear this model will suit me down to the ground at least until the new Q Dac comes out later in the year, the DAC is the same as the CDQ and for £450 less than that I aint going to complain for sure!!

Wayne C
27-01-11, 01:18 PM
I presume the CD just has the dac function like for example a Beresford or a Cambridge, you dont get a digital volume control in those and I guess this is the same as those two

But at £450 im chuffed , would have been great if they had included headphone capability on the 8200cd sort of like a beresford Caiman has, then it would have been perfect, I have no need for preamp functionality

arthur
27-01-11, 01:18 PM
Just received my active Adam Audio Compacts today. All excited I stripped the old hifi and boxed it up. Boxed the old speakers, cleaned and polished the stand, blah blah....set up the new speakers and CDQ and off we go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Except we didn't go anywhere. The CDQ has been losing the left channel if I switch between analogue and digital preamps for a few days..Today it has locked up alltogether..BASTARD.. it switches on but nothing else happens either by remote control or the fascia buttons. Can't even get my cd out:confused:

Does anyone else think there have been too many teething problems with these units?

I hope Lintone have a replacement tomorrow but I'll not be holding my breath.

Seems these were released without proper fieldwork. Relays and/or software should not go awry in the modern market.

I'm quite angry. I n case anybody hasn't noticed.

For what it's worth my advice would be to wait for a different batch, or buy another product.:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

A total shame as the SQ is quite fantastic imo.

Rant done.:mad:

Anyone know of a cd player of comparable sound quality? I'm happy to forgoe the pre amp, headphone and dac for reliability.

Cheers, Arthur.

Interzone
27-01-11, 01:25 PM
Does anyone else think there have been too many teething problems with these units?

Cheers, Arthur.

There's always problems with a new product no matter what the size of the manufacturer. However with such a hyped product on an audio forum they will always be exacerbated IMO. It still sucks for you though. :(

Wayne C
27-01-11, 01:25 PM
Just received my active Adam Audio Compacts today. All excited I stripped the old hifi and boxed it up. Boxed the old speakers, cleaned and polished the stand, blah blah....set up the new speakers and CDQ and off we go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Except we didn't go anywhere. The CDQ has been losing the left channel if I switch between analogue and digital preamps for a few days..Today it has locked up alltogether..BASTARD.. it switches on but nothing else happens either by remote control or the fascia buttons. Can't even get my cd out:confused:

Does anyone else think there have been too many teething problems with these units?

I hope Lintone have a replacement tomorrow but I'll not be holding my breath.

Seems these were released without proper fieldwork. Relays and/or software should not go awry in the modern market.

I'm quite angry. I n case anybody hasn't noticed.

For what it's worth my advice would be to wait for a different batch, or buy another product.:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

A total shame as the SQ is quite fantastic imo.

Rant done.:mad:

Anyone know of a cd player of comparable sound quality? I'm happy to forgoe the pre amp, headphone and dac for reliability.

Cheers, Arthur.

sorry to hear about your problems I have gone for the 8200cd due to being worried about the cdq I actually had one on order and cancelled it!, the 8200 cd as far as im aware hasnt had as many issues I havent seen any reports of them going pear shaped and I am sure they sold all units on the UK

I bet John has one big headache with this it aint his fault im sure but whoever his making his fine designs, I have had Audiolab for years from the glory days my 8000s was made in mid 1990s and never has put a foot wrong

Wayne

Wayne C
27-01-11, 01:27 PM
Just received my active Adam Audio Compacts today. All excited I stripped the old hifi and boxed it up. Boxed the old speakers, cleaned and polished the stand, blah blah....set up the new speakers and CDQ and off we go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Except we didn't go anywhere. The CDQ has been losing the left channel if I switch between analogue and digital preamps for a few days..Today it has locked up alltogether..BASTARD.. it switches on but nothing else happens either by remote control or the fascia buttons. Can't even get my cd out:confused:

Does anyone else think there have been too many teething problems with these units?

I hope Lintone have a replacement tomorrow but I'll not be holding my breath.

Seems these were released without proper fieldwork. Relays and/or software should not go awry in the modern market.

I'm quite angry. I n case anybody hasn't noticed.

For what it's worth my advice would be to wait for a different batch, or buy another product.:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

A total shame as the SQ is quite fantastic imo.

Rant done.:mad:

Anyone know of a cd player of comparable sound quality? I'm happy to forgoe the pre amp, headphone and dac for reliability.

Cheers, Arthur.

As regards a Cd player i'd go for a Rega for sure cheaper and top notch stuff

heres a link

http://www.rega.co.uk/html/planet.htm

you can pick them upon ebay and also Rotel are good in my opinion depends what you are after and don't forget Marantz

arthur
27-01-11, 01:32 PM
I'll be trying out the Rega dac when I take the cdq back tomorrow. That of course means shagging around trying to find a decent transport too.

Perhaps an appolo might be the thing?

Sick as a twat:(

arthur
27-01-11, 01:34 PM
Think I meant Jupiter??

darrylfunk
27-01-11, 01:34 PM
why can't they just exchange it?

Wayne C
27-01-11, 01:43 PM
Think I meant Jupiter??

you did but considering how annoyed you must feel it has to be expected.

Wayne

I have never seen a duff Rega product or owned one they look a bit Star Wars but they have sound quality to match the looks

Wayne C
27-01-11, 01:56 PM
they are all named after planets and space themes I think although the Uranus as you'd expect is at the back end of production at the moment and the pluto has been shelved completely for now , it may come back though!!

arthur
27-01-11, 02:05 PM
why can't they just exchange it?

They may well be able to.

But there are not too many in England apparently and I'm not prepared to wait months.

In any case, unless the comments around here are overstepping the mark, they don't seem to reliable, at least the first batch.

So to a more reliable operator I think.

arthur
27-01-11, 02:05 PM
they are all named after planets and space themes I think although the Uranus as you'd expect is at the back end of production at the moment and the pluto has been shelved completely for now , it may come back though!!

:D lol

Calvin&Hobbes
27-01-11, 02:21 PM
There is no electronic circuit block associated with the digital preamplifier, therefore there is nothing to "get out of the signal path". By using digital pre mode, you are taking an analogue preamplifier out of the signal path. The level control is simply a scaling done in 32 bit digital domain. You cannot take the scaling operation out as it's inherently present internal to the DAC signal processing. By adjusting level on the unit, you are merely adjusting the scaling factor. When we say set to digital and 0dB, it means you will get nominal 2Vrms like the 8200CD at default settings. You can actually go to +3dB to get a somewhat hotter 2.8Vrms output if you like (both CD & CDQ) - this will give you the maximum output level out of the DAC.
I'm not sure which of our dealers have the programmer already, but our plan is to distribute them to each of them. Then it shouldn't be a problem I suppose as long as you take care of the logistics involved.

Dominik

Thought I asked a simple question that could/ would be answered with yes / no..
Sorry for my technical dumbness Dominik!
Nevertheless: I use the CDQ in connection with my integrated amp (I am not the only one) and my amp uses the same RC5 code.
> Can I use the CDQ remote to control volume? (And leave the integrated alone by blocking the IR window).
I ask this because I remember John (?) posted that the dB count is of no interest as long as the CDQ preamp is on digital. Thus should not necessarily be 0 or 3dB.
Anybody? Technobear?

arthur
27-01-11, 02:28 PM
Has anyone here tried a CDQ next to a Benchmark dac by any chance?

At the price it seems that may be the erm.... benchmark.....:p:p:p:p

SORRY... I know I should be shot for such crap wordplay:o

Wayne C
27-01-11, 02:32 PM
:D lol

im glad that cheered you up a bit.

its a shame that you have had to go through this after waiting so long, I guess theres a lot of over the top expectation of these products, I guess not all models can be expected to be issue free, maybe its down to production running at full pitch, I guess it can be compared loosely to someone whos top of the charts, make the most of it whilst your the in product before something else comes along to take away your crown, the Audiolab products are the best they have made since TAG took over and at great prices, but as I say you can't unfortunately expect every one to work 100 per cent, take playstations and the like they have had issues over the years, it can happen to every company. But I bet out of say a 1000 players maybe less than 10 have issues but thats just a thought on my part not a statistic

Dazzor
27-01-11, 02:33 PM
Thought I asked a simple question that could/ would be answered with yes / no..
Sorry for my technical dumbness Dominik!
Nevertheless: I use the CDQ in connection with my integrated amp (I am not the only one) and my amp uses the same RC5 code.
> Can I use the CDQ remote to control volume? (And leave the integrated alone by blocking the IR window).
I ask this because I remember John (?) posted that the dB count is of no interest as long as the CDQ preamp is on digital. Thus should not necessarily be 0 or 3dB.
Anybody? Technobear?

Probably zero-help, however...

I had a CDQ on loan last weekend and had the RC5 code/volume command clash issue with my Caspian integrated....I tried what you're suggesting and it appeared to work, however my Caspian got very warm very quickly (Volume to max) so abandoned this approach pronto. Not sure if SQ was compromised or not.

Wayne C
27-01-11, 02:35 PM
Has anyone here tried a CDQ next to a Benchmark dac by any chance?

At the price it seems that may be the erm.... benchmark.....:p:p:p:p

SORRY... I know I should be shot for such crap wordplay:o

there was one of them for sale second hand on another site it went like hot cakes, they are great dacs, with twin headphone inputs but you cant plays cds on them , have to get another box for that so more expense.

think they are about a grand or just over.

Remara
27-01-11, 03:13 PM
I've had two bad units of cdq here in Finland. Not sure if i got the stamina for the third.. :mad:

I had a CDQ on loan last weekend and had the RC5 code/volume command clash issue with my Caspian integrated....I tried what you're suggesting and it appeared to work, however my Caspian got very warm very quickly (Volume to max) so abandoned this approach pronto. Not sure if SQ was compromised or not.

Wouldn't it be better if you first set the out put of a CDQ to 0dB (2.0V, industry standard) and then fix the highest volume level you are about to use from your Caspian. Then cover the caspian IR and use the cdq as it was attendet to be used.

Turning volume to max is likely to overload your main amp in Caspian, hence the quick heating.

Remara, FINLAND

Dominik
27-01-11, 05:10 PM
Dear Dominik,

the german distributor told me that they don't have your new firmware (with the CD player remote mode) or rather haven't received it yet. When will the firmware update be available in Germany? And can i patch the CDQ on my own?

Thank you very much!

The new software & instructions on updating will probably trickle down in a couple weeks. Unfortunately you won't be able to carry out the update yourself. Currently only one out of the three processors in this product can be updated via USB, so unless the changes only affect that particular chip, it has to be updated at the dealer using IAG programmer.

Dominik
27-01-11, 05:18 PM
Nice one wayne, £450 seems like a bloody good deal. Does the cd8200 have a digital volume control BTW?

New software release for 8200CD adds "Remote Adjustable" output level as an option along the 0dB and +3dB listed in the manual (I believe it's there). Also includes the new digital filter options debuted on CDQ. Same story as with new CDQ software, available in ~2 weeks at dealers, you have to handle the arrangements & logistics.

Dominik
27-01-11, 05:32 PM
Just received my active Adam Audio Compacts today. All excited I stripped the old hifi and boxed it up. Boxed the old speakers, cleaned and polished the stand, blah blah....set up the new speakers and CDQ and off we go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Except we didn't go anywhere. The CDQ has been losing the left channel if I switch between analogue and digital preamps for a few days..Today it has locked up alltogether..BASTARD.. it switches on but nothing else happens either by remote control or the fascia buttons. Can't even get my cd out:confused:

Needless to say - extremely sorry to hear about your problems!
Can you please tell me a little more details about what exactly is going on? Did the left channel go on analogue or digital (or both)? In any case this would most likely be unrelated to the latter issue. When you say it switches on, does it mean the display lights up saying Audiolab 8200CDQ, then changes to the last input? Do you hear a relay click when the init screen disappears? Is the level and everything the same as you've left it last time while it was working? The only way I can imagine there would be no response is if a button was jammed on the front panel. Try switching the unit on while holding down track next & track back - the init display should say "Factory Defaults" on the second line.

Again, sorry for your troubles!

Dominik
27-01-11, 05:36 PM
> Can I use the CDQ remote to control volume? (And leave the integrated alone by blocking the IR window). Should not necessarily be 0 or 3dB.
y e s

Dominik
27-01-11, 05:39 PM
Probably zero-help, however...

I had a CDQ on loan last weekend and had the RC5 code/volume command clash issue with my Caspian integrated....I tried what you're suggesting and it appeared to work, however my Caspian got very warm very quickly (Volume to max) so abandoned this approach pronto. Not sure if SQ was compromised or not.

Will the Caspian go hot when on max volume and other input selected / no input / CDQ in digital pre / CDQ in analogue pre? There is something very wrong - it should not get any hotter than when using the volume knob. Probably instability.

jackbarron
27-01-11, 06:16 PM
I've had two bad units of cdq here in Finland. Not sure if i got the stamina for the third.. :mad:



Wouldn't it be better if you first set the out put of a CDQ to 0dB (2.0V, industry standard) and then fix the highest volume level you are about to use from your Caspian. Then cover the caspian IR and use the cdq as it was attendet to be used.

Turning volume to max is likely to overload your main amp in Caspian, hence the quick heating.

Remara, FINLAND

I think you are probably right Remara.

When John demoed the CDQ for me, I told him that I have got an EAR V20 integrated amp.

He suggested setting the CDQ digital pre to 0db. Then I should set the highest volume level I want on the EAR amp.

I would then use the 8200CDQ remote for volume and everything else.

This cheered me right up, because the EAR V20 doesn't have a direct remote control facility.

Jack

arthur
28-01-11, 02:46 AM
Needless to say - extremely sorry to hear about your problems!
Can you please tell me a little more details about what exactly is going on? Did the left channel go on analogue or digital (or both)? In any case this would most likely be unrelated to the latter issue. When you say it switches on, does it mean the display lights up saying Audiolab 8200CDQ, then changes to the last input? Do you hear a relay click when the init screen disappears? Is the level and everything the same as you've left it last time while it was working? The only way I can imagine there would be no response is if a button was jammed on the front panel. Try switching the unit on while holding down track next & track back - the init display should say "Factory Defaults" on the second line.

Again, sorry for your troubles!

Hi Domonik and thanks for taking the time to answer my rant.

When switching between analogue and digital preamps, the left channel went off. sometimes on analogue, sometimes digital. Not both at the same time.

The unit powers up and says Audiolabcdq, then goes to normal screen as if ready to pay a cd, but the level is minus 80 when i last left it at -6?

I'll try the factory defaults test at home, but if not Lintone say they have another CDQ for me.

Fingers crossed this one's ok :)

O

arthur
28-01-11, 02:48 AM
Needless to say - extremely sorry to hear about your problems!
Can you please tell me a little more details about what exactly is going on? Did the left channel go on analogue or digital (or both)? In any case this would most likely be unrelated to the latter issue. When you say it switches on, does it mean the display lights up saying Audiolab 8200CDQ, then changes to the last input? Do you hear a relay click when the init screen disappears? Is the level and everything the same as you've left it last time while it was working? The only way I can imagine there would be no response is if a button was jammed on the front panel. Try switching the unit on while holding down track next & track back - the init display should say "Factory Defaults" on the second line.

Again, sorry for your troubles!

Hi Domonik and thanks for taking the time to answer my rant.

When switching between analogue and digital preamps, the left channel went off. sometimes on analogue, sometimes digital. Not both at the same time.

The unit powers up and says Audiolabcdq, then goes to normal screen as if ready to pay a cd, but the level is minus 80 when i last left it at -6?

I'll try the factory defaults test at home, but if not Lintone say they have another CDQ for me.

Fingers crossed this one's ok :)

Once again thank you for your help.

Regards, Arthur.

vincent s
28-01-11, 03:41 AM
Gents

I have enjoyed reading the thread - wow a long one. My interest was piqued as I have a Meridian 506 CDP running through another brand DAC/headamp which uses the ESS Sabre 9018 chip. But my Meridian has started skipping and I fear it is probably better to buy a new player than try to have it repaired.

So the 8200CDQ could be the answer.

So going forward I would be very interested to hear comparisons with other DACs using the 9018 chip (and there are quite a few now e.g. the Wyred 4 sound DAC1 or DAC2, Eastern Electric, etc) or other high end recent DAC's.

many thanks in anticipation

Vincent

Dominik
28-01-11, 04:32 AM
When switching between analogue and digital preamps, the left channel went off. sometimes on analogue, sometimes digital. Not both at the same time.

The unit powers up and says Audiolabcdq, then goes to normal screen as if ready to pay a cd, but the level is minus 80 when i last left it at -6?

I'll try the factory defaults test at home, but if not Lintone say they have another CDQ for me.

That left channel problem is very interesting. Had it failed on either digital or analogue preamps, we could blame relay or it's driving circuit. As it plagued both of them, we'll need to investigate the unit - please tell Lintone it's important that the unit finds it's way to the IAG's Service Centre.

Regarding the second issue - I think the unit has jammed volume down front panel button - try pressing it hard, twisting, doing things to it - it may unstuck itself. It's not necessarily the part of the button you can feel - the problem might be inside the switch component. Remara seem to have experienced similar issue with the volume up button. We will look into this..

Dominik

Dazzor
28-01-11, 06:03 AM
Wouldn't it be better if you first set the out put of a CDQ to 0dB (2.0V, industry standard) and then fix the highest volume level you are about to use from your Caspian. Then cover the caspian IR and use the cdq as it was attendet to be used.

Turning volume to max is likely to overload your main amp in Caspian, hence the quick heating.

Remara, FINLAND

Sorry, yes, I did try this also....setting the Caspian to a level whereby I didn't think I would want it any louder. This seemed better in terms of less heat from the Caspian.

Thing is I just want to "know" I have the remote ability to go as loud as I want. Also I guess I'm just not happy with blocking sensors and messing about with a "concocted" remedy when forking out nearly £1k for the CDQ.


Will the Caspian go hot when on max volume and other input selected / no input / CDQ in digital pre / CDQ in analogue pre? There is something very wrong - it should not get any hotter than when using the volume knob. Probably instability.

Bloody good question, sadly I didn't think to try any of this and the unit was only on loan and has gone back.

To be honest, I was pretty disheartened by the remote-clash. As I stated above, for this kind of money I want it to just work out of the box without having to reach for the electrical tape to cover sensors and so on.

Also, from early posts by JW, it was suggested that for integrated’s to be used with the CDQ the digital pre-amp should be selected and set to 0db in order for it to be effectively zeroed-out (Not in signal path). This was what I thought needed to be done to achieve a good result.. So again, I kind of dismissed other options and waved the white flag.

Cheers
Darren

TimR
28-01-11, 06:40 AM
Hi John, I don't know if you've made it home yet, but I hope your journey was a safe and stress-free one (I'll stop short of saying pleasant - I guess that's very unlikely!).

First of all, I cannot thank you enough for your kindness and generosity in coming round to take a look at my system, especially considering the amount of travelling involved. Incredible that not only did you look into the CDQ issue, but you also took time out and fixed my amp! Please thank Renata for her help and also her patience in what must have been a very long and tiring day for both of you. Also please pass on my grattitude to the engineers who serviced the X7.

To update you, your modified cable has so far been a great success. It has reduced the hiss to a level where it is now 100% inaudible from anywhere near my listening position. As far as I'm concerned, the problem has gone! :D
Of course, the modifications on the X7 are still burning in, and the cable I provided for the mod is not the one I am used to hearing, so it difficult at the moment to say if there have been any negative effects, but the hiss is definately not there.

Rather than continue using the modified cable, I am thinking of making a couple of in-line attenuators (i.e. just having the resistors soldered between a phono plug & socket) so that I can go back to using my old cables, which would make for a much easier comparison. Does this sound like a reasonable thing to do? If so, could you let me know the values of resistors I should use.

Once again, I really appreciate everything you have done.

- Tim

markomarko
28-01-11, 11:06 AM
Timr,
So the designer of your newly purchased cd came to your house and fixed your... Amp?! Wait, what? Well done, is all I can say!

dane
28-01-11, 11:21 AM
I agree - impressive service by JW!!
So if I should get any problems with my CDQ, I expect John to fly to Singapore and fix it ;-) and any other electronics with problems - reminds me, got a rice cooker thats broken..

So far I have zero problem with the CDQ other than the hiss which I solved by going to balanced out. It will be matched up with some hi-end (in my opinion) speakers in a few weeks and planning some blind testing on the local forum to try out cables etc

arthur
28-01-11, 01:01 PM
I agree - impressive service by JW!!
So if I should get any problems with my CDQ, I expect John to fly to Singapore and fix it ;-) and any other electronics with problems - reminds me, got a rice cooker thats broken..



:D:D:D

Made me chuckle that did.

I'd like to add to the admiration for job well done, above and beyond.

Quite astonishing in fact, and having J and D prepared to answer questions and take some flack on here is top notch. 10/10 to you both. :D Cheers.

Also have my new black CDQ up and running now through my shiny new Adams and even from cold and brand new I'm delighted. And I know there's more to come as the last one 'warmed up' or 'broke in' quite nicely after about 5 days (25-30hrs).

I'm a very happy chap this evening, can't keep the grin off my face. :p

LittleToast
28-01-11, 05:00 PM
I agree - impressive service by JW!!
So if I should get any problems with my CDQ, I expect John to fly to Singapore and fix it ;-) and any other electronics with problems - reminds me, got a rice cooker thats broken..

So far I have zero problem with the CDQ other than the hiss which I solved by going to balanced out. It will be matched up with some hi-end (in my opinion) speakers in a few weeks and planning some blind testing on the local forum to try out cables etc

Hi Dane, want to pop by my place to try out your cdq with my Adam compact 3? We can also try using my transport and see if there is any difference in sound. Will be fun to report it back here. I wonder how some here do PM though.

dane
28-01-11, 11:27 PM
littletoast - pm'ed you

edit - i think i did.. keep getting logon screen after pressing send on pm's..

norriemal
29-01-11, 05:25 AM
Dominik

I've just set my turntable back up with new Jico SAS stylus for my V15 mkiii and a new Project Tubebox phono stage. This is into the aux input on the CDQ.

I want to get just my favourite bits of vinyl onto the computer to make cds for the car and for convenience into playlists etc.

Is there any way to use the CDQ's adc to create my FLAC files via the usb connection.
It seems crazy to have to use my inferior soundcard for this. I use Alpinesoft Vinylstudio and can pick up the source to record from but the CDQ does not appear as a option.

I can pick up the SPDIF on my Asus D2X soundcard and can connect this to the CD out on the CDQ but there does not appear a way to get the aux input to be output here in digital form.

In case anyone is interested the Tubebox into the CDQ preamp is a huge upgrade on the phono section in the 8000C preamp it has replaced. Some of that will be the Tubebox and it's valves but the pre amp also seems to be more relaxed. There have not been many comments on the pre amp section here other than people trying to avoid using it. Anyone care to comment on how good the preamp sounds where they are using it as intended.

Norrie

Dominik
29-01-11, 05:50 AM
Hi Norrie,

There is no ADC in the CDQ! Analogue inputs stay in analogue domain all the time. They are converted to balanced and from there follow the same path through the analogue preamp as the DAC outputs do (when in analogue pre mode). Digital pre mode skips the whole analogue preamp and goes straight to the output jacks.

People seem to comment favorably about the analogue pre - every time headphone output is being mentioned it is a testament to the analogue preamp as that's what drives it.

Dominik

TimR
29-01-11, 06:16 AM
I expect John to fly to Singapore and fix it ;-) and any other electronics with problems - reminds me, got a rice cooker thats broken..
That gave me a good chuckle too! :D:D Honestly, JW is probably the most helpful guy I have ever met. Astonishing.

By the way, in the last hour I've just got my SB touch. Out of the box, the CDQ locks on over USB, but no sound. In fact the SB does not appear to play the song. However, I do get control over the SB using the CDQ handset (back, forward, play, pause etc), so all is not lost.

Early days. I will report back.

TimR
29-01-11, 06:28 AM
Timr,
So the designer of your newly purchased cd came to your house and fixed your... Amp?! Wait, what? Well done, is all I can say!

To cut a long story short, between me reporting the CDQ problem and JW coming over to the UK, one of the channels failed on my power amp, an Audiolab 8000X7. Even though I had a workaround (this is a 7ch amp, and I only need 5 channels) John was absolutely brilliant and dropped it off at IAG the next day, then bought it back on his way home. He just wouldn't take no for an answer!

He had also noticed a hum on the amp (i must say, it wasn't something I'd notced), and this has been fixed too.

Top that!

John, next time you're over, please let me buy you a beer.

dre_
29-01-11, 06:48 AM
By the way, in the last hour I've just got my SB touch. Out of the box, the CDQ locks on over USB, but no sound. In fact the SB does not appear to play the song. However, I do get control over the SB using the CDQ handset (back, forward, play, pause etc), so all is not lost.


Out of the box the USB out will not have digital out. This requires an alteration to a file in the SB. See the link in previous posting. With this "hack" you'll loose signal from the other outputs.

I've plans following this path. To me this seems the ideal path. The Stereophile article mentioned an unsurpassed sound quality (in combination with an Ayre DAC) I do not plan to alter my setup so just using USB out will be fine for me.

Soon I'll have the money and hopefully there is a dealer here in the Netherlands where I can audition the CDQ. I'm still a bit worried about the hissing and I have no plans buying a power amp that does have balanced inputs soon.

Dominik: I've asked this question before to Dominik so I hope you don't mind me asking again: is it possible to mute the output signal if no input signal is offered after a firmware udate?

dane
29-01-11, 06:53 AM
. Dominik: I've asked this question before to Dominik so I hope you don't mind me asking again: is it possible to mute the output signal if no input signal is offered after a firmware udate?

Not sure this is the solution you are after, but I think switching to analog pre and turning down the volume will be equivalent to muting the output

dre_
29-01-11, 07:09 AM
Not sure this is the solution you are after, but I think switching to analog pre and turning down the volume will be equivalent to muting the output

That is a possible solution and so is switching off my power amp after listening. It's just that I was hoping for a more elegant solution. If the hissing could be countered with a firmware alteration, the CDQ would be an ideal piece of equipment for me.

Is there anyone that can explain what causes the hissing? Is it noise only not heard when louder material masks it? etc etc.

Space is the Place
29-01-11, 07:14 AM
He just wouldn't take no for an answer!

He had also noticed a hum on the amp (i must say, it wasn't something I'd notced), and this has been fixed too.

Top that!


When he left, did he go by car or fly off into the sky? ;)


http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p293/muz640/JW.jpg

dane
29-01-11, 07:17 AM
hahaha!! great one!

to dre: switching off the CDQ will also kill any hiss unless it comes from your power amp..
how noticeable the hiss is depends on how effective your speakers are and the gain of your power amp.

my guess/hope is that JW+Dom will find a solution and implement in future production

norriemal
29-01-11, 07:47 AM
Thanks Dominik that makes sense and I realised after I'd posted. I'm more used to fiddling with soundcards than amps. I've not really looked at the CDQ yet in detail just listened to music and the talk of choosing the digital pre over the analogue was where my confusion came from.

Thanks again for a great product, for the first time in years I just want to actually listen to my music again rather than just play it in the background.

Norrie

TimR
29-01-11, 09:51 AM
When he left, did he go by car or fly off into the sky? ;)


http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p293/muz640/JW.jpg

I'm staying out of this! I vowed never to reveal his true identity :D

Cereal Killer
29-01-11, 09:56 AM
Can i be Lex Luthor - please?

Space is the Place
29-01-11, 10:06 AM
Can i be Lex Luthor - please?

You can with your Lavry Dac yes!
Notice the LEDs glow green like Kryptonite? That isn't a coincidence! ;)

Cereal Killer
29-01-11, 10:15 AM
ummm kryptonite, me hungry.

Dawg
29-01-11, 01:49 PM
That gave me a good chuckle too! :D:D Honestly, JW is probably the most helpful guy I have ever met. Astonishing.

By the way, in the last hour I've just got my SB touch. Out of the box, the CDQ locks on over USB, but no sound. In fact the SB does not appear to play the song. However, I do get control over the SB using the CDQ handset (back, forward, play, pause etc), so all is not lost.

Early days. I will report back.

Hi Tim, have you applied the softmods as in the link i posted earlyer? I have tried the mods but I think there may be a problem if you are running the latest firmware, they dont seem to be working on my system so i am trying to downgrade to 7.5.2. not having much luck at mo, hacking the touch is a doddle.

Calvin&Hobbes
29-01-11, 03:44 PM
Tonight I did some more critical listening. Started to toggle the filter settings beyond OS and OT (standard). Of these two I preferred the OS most when the recording was devoid of digital sharpness (more ambiance as stated before) and would use the OT to get rid of that when the recording had that typical digital signature (less listening fatigue as the manual correctly states). However, after some time the Slow Roll-off filter slowly but surely won me over. Not dry, not sharp, but in between and very dynamic for that! Just wonder if anybody else has experienced this? This filter was not considered "high-end" for what I've read. However, I'll keep this filter for the time being. Sounds great! That's the good part of this posting.

Previously reported about the OPU being on the sensitive side with CD-R's (remember, I am one of those who uses the CDQ as CD player only, with upgrading only in mind). I mentioned that 1 out of 10 CD-R's would skip or not be read at all (reading-error). That may be a conservative number. What's worse: my CDQ is also sensitive with regular CD's :(. I experience ticking and skipping in individual tracks. Again, a conservative estimate would be that this happens with 1 out of 10 CD's. It is sooo annoying when you have to switch of a recording that you're enjoying anew! Of course, I cleaned CD's thoroughly by wiping. Didn't help. The same CD's are read without problem by my 1993 Sony player (mind you, it's laser block that I replaced costed 150 euro on it's own). Now: am I the only one experiencing this?

Remara
29-01-11, 04:59 PM
Now: am I the only one experiencing this?

Nope, you are not the only one.. :(
Mine (home trial demo unit #2) 8200cdq does that too. Do you think that it's usually the first or the last song on a cd that makes those hiccups and pauses?

Remara, FINLAND

dane
29-01-11, 09:29 PM
just curious, what serial number do you guys with the trouble players have? mine is B0134 and so far no issues - fingers crossed.

had it over at a local forumers place this morning and compared briefly to a very high-end japanese cdp (cant remember the brand or model). My host was very impressed with the CDQ and said it may sound better than his $$$$$ machine..
the system was Krell mono blocks and 2-box preamp - Dynaudio C2 speakers.

edit - the cpd it was up against was the Reimyo CDP-777 which is rather well regarded $14000 player..
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/combak2/cdp.html

Calvin&Hobbes
30-01-11, 02:50 AM
Nope, you are not the only one.. :(
Mine (home trial demo unit #2) 8200cdq does that too. Do you think that it's usually the first or the last song on a cd that makes those hiccups and pauses?

Remara, FINLAND

Hi Remara, that's what I thought at first. However, yesterday the player gave a reading error in the middle of an CD as good as new (track no 8). Darn!
Good that your's is a demo. I bought mine at an internetshop, for the single reason that Audiolab-NL does not market the CDQ :confused: Otherwise I would certainly take a drive to the dealer. It is a failure that can only be demonstrated by listening. After all nothing is broken.

JohnW
30-01-11, 05:05 AM
Hi – arrived safely back to Czech Rep.

Norriemal,

I’m very sorry I didn’t not get a chance to drop by – I somehow missed your PM with your contact details – I’m not sure when it arrived, last week was crazy busy, once I was able to get to sit down in the evenings and read Emails etc I was totally gone…

Not sure if you can bring your unit to Bristol Hi-Fi show, or I can visit you during my trip to the UK from 20th of Feb.

Pls. don’t feel I left you out – I’m very sorry about your display issues – and hopefully we will have a chance towards the end of the month to solve them – and update your machine with the latest software.

Also, if anyone brings there CD/CDQ’s over to the Bristol show, we can also updated to the latest software versions – with all improvements (including display dimming and extra filters for CD).

C&H,

We have a software update to improve the readability of the CD’s – it basically trades-off shock resistance over readability – so better readability for worst “shock” resistance. As the units are designed for home use – Shock resistance is not that important. We have also improved the software so that once it encounters a “playability event” or shock; the unit will “eventually” recover and continue playing if it can.

We drive though Holland (very short section between Belgium and Germany) on our way to and from Czech Rep. So I can stop by and update your machine if it helps you out.

It does sound like your machine is not operating to at its best – So I will also swap out the Laser Mech.

Filters…. That’s why we added the options of selectable filters, small but worthwhile “system tuning” – problem is you end up saying I preferred this filter for this type of music / recordings, but then I want “Bass Heavy” and its OT DD etc etc

Remara,

Finland’s a bit off the beaten track for me to drop by, but once we have the software released (with readability updates – CD servo software Revision 85 upwards) – Audiolab main service centers can perform the updates.

Muz640,

Thanks for the chuckle, somehow unfortunately my Wife Renata does not share the same opinion of my “skill” set…

Dane – Rice cookers are not on my list of items I repair – If my wife found out I would have endless requests for “help” best stay fixing the “easier” items like Amps and CD players…

TimR,

Thank you and your family for making time for us to pop around “uninvited” – I’m sorry for the short notice, but I had no idea when and how I could make time to visit the UK, I was in a meeting in Germany during the weekend, and decided on the spur of the moment it would be easier to drive directly from Germany then return to Czech Rep. and fly - then try and rent a car in the UK etc – I also (don’t ask why) only have an Automatic driving license – makes for fun trying to rent a car in the UK – “What ONLY Auto driving license - can you not drive?” etc

I happy the background hum has gone, and the attenuated leads (-12dB) have fixed your “hiss issue” with unbalanced leads.

I was as interested as anyone concerning Tim's “Hiss” issues – so I kind of invited myself over to have a listen for myself.

Turns out that driving 2900km in the preceding 48 hours tends to “dull” your HF hearing with the constant background road noise.

I could only hear the “hiss” with my Ear right up against Tim’s tweeters – but Tim demonstrated that he can hear it from his seating position – I asked Renata listen – she could only identify the Hiss once she was made aware of it by listing to against the tweeters – “Identify” the sound – then REALLY trying very hard from the seating position to resolve it.

Again stressing here, For Tim it was an issue, but for Renata it was not of any concern, as it was too low to be obstructive in anyway – I simply could not even hear it from say 50cm away from the tweeters – I hope due “Dulled” hearing from driving for 2 days then old age…

Still more troubling for me was the Background Hum (Tim was unaware of this) – which was due to dried out E-Caps in the X7, Background TV and conversation noise from the neighbor next door – and the constant “Din" of passing motorway traffic (again Tim had become accustomed to these “background” noises that he did not notice them anymore…


To everyone I would have liked to have visited, Sorry we could not stay longer in the UK but we had prior booked a Hotel for our Architect and builders (and there families) for a weekend meeting in the Czech mountains to start work on our new home – I could not rearrange the dates due to the numbers involved.

So, the “Hiss” while for some people and maybe in some systems can be an issue, it’s really a case by case issue.

So in systems that experience issues, going Balanced completely solves the issue (almost -20dB improvement to Dynamic Range), or adding inline RCA attenuators (say 10dB to 12dB) seem a workable value / solution. I recall adverts at the back of the Hi-Fi Mags – www.rothwellaudioproducts.co.uk “rothwell In-Line Attenuators” should solve the issue for “troublesome” systems.

The root cause of the “Hiss” is the use of JFET devices used in the Analog Class A output buffers (using the front end of the AD744’s) – these “degrade” the Single Ended Dynamic range from about -122dB to -98dB (-117dB from -135dB Balanced) – But the JEFTS sounded so much better then Transistors, that we chose to live with the degraded dynamic Range for the sack of the sonic improvements.

Anyone concerned about the level of Hiss can come and listen for themselves at the Bristol (and Munich) HiFi show, in most cases the Hiss level should only be audible with ears up against the tweeters (background levels of the Amplifiers)… or a second option is drive for 2 days – this desensitizes your HF hearing (apparently / hopefully)!!!

John

TimR
30-01-11, 06:01 AM
Hi Tim, have you applied the softmods as in the link i posted earlyer? I have tried the mods but I think there may be a problem if you are running the latest firmware, they dont seem to be working on my system so i am trying to downgrade to 7.5.2. not having much luck at mo, hacking the touch is a doddle.

Hi Dawg, no I was a bit busy yesterday so didn't get round to it. I hope to find time today though. Frst thing I did yesterday was let it upgrade the firmware.... doh! I'll let you know how it goes anyhow.

Edit: Just finished the hack, and as expected no sound over USB same as you. I'm still getting sound over coax though. Will linvestigate...

I recall adverts at the back of the Hi-Fi Mags – www.rothwellaudioproducts.co.uk “rothwell In-Line Attenuators” should solve the issue for “troublesome” systems.
Thanks John, I've just ordered a pair.

Dawg
30-01-11, 09:41 AM
Hi Dawg, no I was a bit busy yesterday so didn't get round to it. I hope to find time today though. Frst thing I did yesterday was let it upgrade the firmware.... doh! I'll let you know how it goes anyhow.

Edit: Just finished the hack, and as expected no sound over USB same as you. I'm still getting sound over coax though. Will linvestigate...


Thanks John, I've just ordered a pair.

I managed to get the mods working today, no chance to listen though but I did have to revert back to 7.5.1 on the touch to get them to stick, get the firmware here http://update.slimdevices.com/update/firmware/7.5.2/ get the file named "jive_7.5.1_r9009.bin" I dont know why 7.5.1 is in the 7.5.2 directory but just stick it on the root of an sd card and you can downgrade the touch via the menue, dont forget to do a factory reset first to get rid of the tools. Oh and you may need to rename the file after you have downloaded it as windows saves it as .zip I am looking forward to hearing how the touch sounds through the CDQ via usb :cool:

Alan

TimR
30-01-11, 10:55 AM
Nice work Alan :)
I'm just trying to downgrade my firmware here, but after selecting software update, i'm not getting any option to download from the SD card. I've also tried a USB stick. How did you manage it ?

edit: Clutching at straws, I wonder if it's cos I'm running the latest server software. Maybe it's incompatible with the earlier SBT firmware? I've got server 7.5.3 / r31792

reverendo
30-01-11, 11:50 AM
That gave me a good chuckle too! :D:D Honestly, JW is probably the most helpful guy I have ever met. Astonishing.

By the way, in the last hour I've just got my SB touch. Out of the box, the CDQ locks on over USB, but no sound. In fact the SB does not appear to play the song. However, I do get control over the SB using the CDQ handset (back, forward, play, pause etc), so all is not lost.

Early days. I will report back.
TimR,
definitely interested in your saga with the Touch, since I have one, too.
Hoping for future feedback.
best regards
André

Just saw that you guys are already working on the details... thanks for doing the hard work. :D

Dawg
30-01-11, 12:21 PM
Nice work Alan :)
I'm just trying to downgrade my firmware here, but after selecting software update, i'm not getting any option to download from the SD card. I've also tried a USB stick. How did you manage it ?

edit: Clutching at straws, I wonder if it's cos I'm running the latest server software. Maybe it's incompatible with the earlier SBT firmware? I've got server 7.5.3 / r31792

I did a bit of reading that said if you install server 7.== the device would automatically downgrade, this didnt work for me so yes i put 7.5.1 on my pc first, I dont know if this is why I was able to update though, my server is 30836 and the jive file firmware is 9009, i may have upgraded via the "SD Card" option in the menu rather than the "software update", sorry I have had a few beers now! :confused: I was running 7.5.3 / r31792 aswell previous. I have just found another mod aswell that you definately need to try, http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html#more .

Alan

Dawg
30-01-11, 12:36 PM
Yeah i just checked, i didnt use the "software update" function found in advanced settings, i just went into "sd card" and it auto found the firmware, provided you put the file in the root of the sd card it should update.

Dawg
30-01-11, 12:47 PM
Ok it seems that someone is running all the mods on the latest firmware 7.6 and 7.3, strange they didnt work on my touch. I dont want to turn this into a SB thread, I just want to know if it works on the CDQ as I am trying to sell my soul to get one!

dre_
30-01-11, 01:05 PM
Ok it seems that someone is running all the mods on the latest firmware 7.6 and 7.3, strange they didnt work on my touch. I dont want to turn this into a SB thread, I just want to know if it works on the CDQ as I am trying to sell my soul to get one!

Please tell me your findings when you are finished with the modification. I'm interested in both the way to do it and the end result (should be pretty good).

TimR
30-01-11, 01:15 PM
I had no problem at all installing all the mods OK on firmware 7.5.3 (including the extra ones you just mentioned), but i still got no USB audio into the CDQ. Thought it would be worth trying the downgrade. I've now got server 7.5.1 running on the PC, but still no joy in getting the SB to see the firmware file on the SD card, either by browsing to the card, or by selecting software update :confused:

edit: I've posted a request for help on this over on the slimdevices forum where John Swenson lives (he's the guy who came up with the Async USB hack).

Dawg
30-01-11, 01:27 PM
I had no problem at all installing all the mods OK on firmware 7.5.3, but i still got no USB audio into the CDQ. Thought it would be worth trying the downgrade. I've now got server 7.5.1 running on the PC, but still no joy in getting the SB to see the firmware file on the SD card, either by browsing to the card, or by selecting software update :confused:

All the mods seemed to work for me but the analogue out and screen didnt go off untill i downgraded, OMG! I am really sorry, the beer has frazzled my brain this afternoon, the file you need is fab4_7.5.1_r9218.bin, from the same directory, I have read soooo much and different forums have said different files need to be on there. try that, again sorry for the time you wasted! :mad:

TimR
30-01-11, 02:20 PM
No worries Alan ;)

I've now downgraded the firmware, and guess what? I noticed a typo in my asound.conf file, which i think was the real root cause, cos it's working now! Well, not quite, cos I'm getting a few ticks and pops in the music, so something's still not right. But progress has been made. Think I'll upgrade back again and see if the whole firmware thing was a red herring.

Edit: Yes it was!
So as it stands, I have the latest firmware, latest server software, and I have installed all the tools from here http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html

I have applied the async usb mod by John Swenson, but the result is that I get music over USB into the CDQ, but it contains pops and ticks. For anyone following this, I have posted some diagnostics which I hope JS will take a look at at some point here http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82110&page=11 (user=indypants)

arthur
30-01-11, 02:38 PM
:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o

Gents, in the nicest possible way, you have persuaded me to stay with cd:D:D

That all sounds like a scary lot of work to me.

Bugt as you seem to not mind it, perhaps you could tell me;

Can I just buy a nas drive, lob on a sonos or similar and use say, itunes lossless and have access to all my songs into the dac in my cdq?

That doesn't sound hard??:confused:

dre_
30-01-11, 02:50 PM
:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o

Gents, in the nicest possible way, you have persuaded me to stay with cd:D:D

That all sounds like a scary lot of work to me.

Bugt as you seem to not mind it, perhaps you could tell me;

Can I just buy a nas drive, lob on a sonos or similar and use say, itunes lossless and have access to all my songs into the dac in my cdq?

That doesn't sound hard??:confused:

Of course that's also possible. The reason for this modding though, is to have a relatively cheap device with digital out over USB. If USB is used the 8200 is far less bothered by jitter which should greatly improve sound quality. It might very well be much better than CD. But I agree that this is not a very user friendly solution.

I searched for alternatives but I did not see a USB music streamer with a litle screen.

arthur
30-01-11, 02:55 PM
Of course that's also possible. The reason for this modding though, is to have a relatively cheap device with digital out over USB. If USB is used the 8200 is far less bothered by jitter which should greatly improve sound quality. It might very well be much better than CD. But I agree that this is not a very user friendly solution.

I searched for alternatives but I did not see a USB music streamer with a litle screen.

I see. I was hoping the sonos or something like it had a usb digi out.

So I'm less knowledgable than I thought :(

Still, I'll keep reading and perhaps steal your final solution:D:D

I suppose i could always use the laptop for now, but I dont want a computer anywhere near the cdq.

reverendo
30-01-11, 06:47 PM
Dawg & TimR
thanks for keeping us posted. still interested if everything will work out alright.
BTW, has anyone compared USB input vs. coax or AES/EBU input on the CDQ? Would love to know if there is any audible difference. Theoretically it should be a fight between asynch USB vs. AES/EBU, but I'd like to know if anyone has had real-life experience comparing these on the CDQ.
best regards
André

Weirdness
30-01-11, 07:17 PM
I don't think the 8200CDQ has an AES input, just coax/optical/usb.

reverendo
30-01-11, 07:20 PM
I don't think the 8200CDQ has an AES input, just coax/optical/usb.
ooops... you're right... thanks for straightening that out...
still, the question still stands... can anybody report any differences between the usb and coax or optical inputs?
best regards
André

TimR
31-01-11, 01:37 AM
That all sounds like a scary lot of work to me.We've made it sound like a lot of work. All I've really done to get to this stage is to log in to the squeezebox, edit a file and reboot ! The extra tools I installed weren't really related to getting the USB working.

Dawg
31-01-11, 11:32 AM
Yeah just want to confirm that I made a hash of the file names due to too much beer on an afternoon, :mad: It took about 30 seconds to transfer the tools and 5 mins to get all the mods working, no need to edit any files with soundchecks method and you can turn off all outputs except usb, its the easyest mods ive ever done, i just need to get the girlfriend away from the tv so i can have a listen. Soooooo c'mon TimR, we are waiting for the verdict on the sound quality and reliability through the CDQ, just for the record I dont have one yet and even if its flakey I will still get one of the products talked about here, either CDQ or QDAC.

JohnW
31-01-11, 12:00 PM
Arthur,

I understand your trepidation of joining the "Streaming Audio revolution" so am I - But there’s a really simple no fuss method - with easy user interface - and no messing!

Buy an iPad and the iPad Camera Connection kit (GBP30 or so, Apple Part# MC531ZM/A), then simply plug in the CDQ into the iPad via USB cable into the Camera Connection adaptor - and you have 44.1KHz 16Bit Async USB audio - really easy.

Convert your CD's into Apple Lossless in iTunes and you will not go back to using CD's.

With the iPad connected you can also stream Internet Radio etc painlessly to your CDQ...

The iPad's relatively cheap, you not only gain a great Media player, you also gain a great internet browser, and everything else the iPad is...

The CDQ Remote control / Front panel also controls the iPad’s media player…

nikos
31-01-11, 12:43 PM
Arthur,

I understand your trepidation of joining the "Streaming Audio revolution" so am I - But there’s a really simple no fuss method - with easy user interface - and no messing!

Buy an iPad and the iPad Camera Connection kit (GBP30 or so, Apple Part# MC531ZM/A), then simply plug in the CDQ into the iPad via USB cable into the Camera Connection adaptor - and you have 44.1KHz 16Bit Async USB audio - really easy.

Convert your CD's into Apple Lossless in iTunes and you will not go back to using CD's.

With the iPad connected you can also stream Internet Radio etc painlessly to your CDQ...

The iPad's relatively cheap, you not only gain a great Media player, you also gain a great internet browser, and everything else the iPad is...

The CDQ Remote control / Front panel also controls the iPad’s media player…

Hi John,

can you also connect to the iPad a usb3 hard drive with 24b/96khz files??
Will they play at 24/96 or 16/44.1?
I also have some problems with the cd-drive. It will not play some of the regular cds ( not just cd-rs). I was demod the unit to a friend of mine i got very embarrased when his cd would not play.....Anything that can be done in Greece please?

Thanks,

Nikos

BTW the Minimum Phase filter is my current favourite.

norriemal
31-01-11, 01:35 PM
Hi John
Your desire to help us all get the best from our CDQ's is admirable and we really do appreciate it. I am enjoying just listening to my music and I will definately come and see you in Bristol.

Norrie

TimR
31-01-11, 01:51 PM
Soooooo c'mon TimR, we are waiting for the verdict on the sound quality and reliability through the CDQ

It's not working properly yet... as of yesterday, sound was coming through but with a pop or click every few seconds, so something's still wrong. Unfortunately I know very little about Linux, and even less about USB drivers. If there's any progress, I'll let you know, but I think I have quite a lot of reading and stabbing in the dark to do!

A question for any USB experts.. am I correct that asynchronous works by having the DAC "dictate" the data rate/freq of the SB? If so, how often you would expect the SB to be updating its data freq (apologies for any wrong terminology)? It's just that I've been monitoring the Momentary freq= value in the stream0 file on the SB while playing into the CDQ, and the value only ever changes at the start of each new song.. not while it is playing. It might just be that more frequent changes simply aren't being reflected in that file of course.

If only I could be more clever!

...I bet Dominik could get it working in 10 minutes :D:D

JohnW
31-01-11, 02:07 PM
Nikos,

Apple currently does not support Hi-Res Audio from iTunes via the iPad, but most people still have 44.1 KHz files - iPad will handle these simply - and with no messing about, and that’s all most people including myself need. Until Music I care to listen too becomes readily available in Hi-Res I'm not going to lose any sleep over the iPad lack of HiRes support.

Sure there’s there are other devices that can replay Hi-Res Audio, but they rapidly get to complex for most people – I only want to listen to Music not become an expert computer user – this is where Apple scores – simple, easy – even my parents can use Apple devices…

Damaged and scratched CD's come in many forms - we cannot guarantee to play all forms of scratched disks - but off course the CDQ will play "decent" condition disks. The update software (CD Servo Rev 85) trades shock resistance (the unit being hit) in exchange for playability (better able to cope with scratched and damaged disks) - this software update can be performed by your local Audiolab service centre once it has been officially released - we are still testing it, but it should be available within a month.

norriemal,

Looking forward to meeting you - and your unit :) next month

JohnW
31-01-11, 02:09 PM
TimR,

Sounds like the SB is not handling Async USB correctly – as if its not handling the flow control and allowing the USB buffer to over-run / under-run, I have no idea why as it’s down to the SB software.

John

Jek
31-01-11, 02:16 PM
Has anyone compared the new cdq with the old dacapo dac and dacapo II CD player yet?

JohnW
31-01-11, 02:16 PM
Jek - TimR has :)

Tim had both the 24Bit and HDCD Filters...

Miki Vee
31-01-11, 02:59 PM
Well I've had my replacement CDQ for well over a week now, and I'm pleased to say everything seems to be hunky dory.

I've just changed a few things round in the living room, and put the CDQ, and my amp, in a different rack. Currently playing a high res of 'A Night At The Opera' through my Touch which is connected via optical (none of that messing around with hacks here!). It certainly sounds better than it used to connected directly to the amp, though not quite as good as direct CD replay.

The CDQ definitely digs out more detail than I have been used to, and is a very pleasing listen. Just starting messing about with the different filters, and is currently on slow roll off, but I think it's too early to report on which setting I prefer. I have a few more experiments to try in the coming weeks as I have a new PC being built, I'll be getting JRiver to go on there and my laptop, and I also have an Apple TV2 which I'm going to give a whirl through the CDQ.

On the CD reading front, my unit has only struggled to read a CD if it has been left in and tries to read it on start up. Pressing eject and reloading the CD has solved this problem, as has removing the CD before switching off the unit :) I haven't tried any copied discs.

Good to speak with you last week John, I hope you've discovered the reason behind the couple of failed units. And for all the doubters out there, I think a couple of failed CDQ's is not a huge rate for the ammount of product that has shifted, though I do understand why people have concerns around the display brightness and CDR replay, but surely these are minor glitches, not deal breakers. And both issues are being dealt with. FWIW, I have my display turned off.

Still not heard from Audiolab re:amp mod.

TimR
31-01-11, 03:04 PM
Sounds like the SB is not handling Async USB correctly – as if its not handling the flow control and allowing the USB buffer to over-run / under-run, I have no idea why as it’s down to the SB software.

Thanks for the pointer John. As per your comments, there is already talk on other forums about the SB USB driver being an old one and not fully up to the job of Async. A couple of people are pushing to get Logitech to add an updated driver to the firmware. You've just made me realise I haven't really sat and listened to the damn thing (even over spdif) since it arrived on Saturday :(

Jek - the DaCapo is a wonderful DAC as you're well aware, but mine has now found a new home courtesy of ebay (i used it with a clock-locked cardinal transport bythe way). You really should go and have a listen to the CDQ.

Dawg
31-01-11, 03:29 PM
[QUOTE=TimR;1280663]Thanks for the pointer John. As per your comments, there is already talk on other forums about the SB USB driver being an old one and not fully up to the job of Async. A couple of people are pushing to get Logitech to add an updated driver to the firmware. You've just made me realise I haven't really sat and listened to the damn thing (even over spdif) since it arrived on Saturday :(

John Swenson has a firmware for the touch that includes the latest ALSA driver, I know he is trying to get it official but he seems to be handing it out via pm, only thing is the mp3 and wireless support or lack of. I will keep an eye on this thread for future updates.

reverendo
31-01-11, 05:44 PM
SB Touch with asynch USB output with the CDQ8200 would definitely make it a no brainer for me. Since I'm traveling this week to Europe I'd buy it in a second.
best regards
André

Dominik
31-01-11, 06:41 PM
It's not working properly yet... as of yesterday, sound was coming through but with a pop or click every few seconds, so something's still wrong. Unfortunately I know very little about Linux, and even less about USB drivers. If there's any progress, I'll let you know, but I think I have quite a lot of reading and stabbing in the dark to do!

A question for any USB experts.. am I correct that asynchronous works by having the DAC "dictate" the data rate/freq of the SB? If so, how often you would expect the SB to be updating its data freq (apologies for any wrong terminology)? It's just that I've been monitoring the Momentary freq= value in the stream0 file on the SB while playing into the CDQ, and the value only ever changes at the start of each new song.. not while it is playing. It might just be that more frequent changes simply aren't being reflected in that file of course.

If only I could be more clever!

...I bet Dominik could get it working in 10 minutes :D:D

Hi Tim,

I have no in-depth knowledge of Linux myself. All I know is that sound including soundcard drivers are managed by ALSA. The level of support for USB Audio Class devices vary between versions of ALSA. Recent versions have no problems with Async sink and in fact even support USB Audio Class 2.0 - like Mac OS X and unlike any past, current or future version of Windows.

USB as a bus protocol knows 4 kinds of transfers - Control, Interrupt, Bulk and Isochronous. The first one is used for basic device management, second is for regular delivery of small amounts of data, third is for burst transfers of large amount of data and the last, Isochronous, is for continuous streaming of data with guaranteed reserved bandwidth and fixed latency.

USB Audio uses Isochronous transfers to send audio samples. They are delivered in packets every 1 millisecond. There are three methods of synchronization - Adaptive, Synchronous and Asynchronous. The first expects the output device to monitor how much data is coming over USB and adjust it's playback speed / clock to accommodate it. Second method uses the periodic 1ms frame rate of USB as the reference, so that there is always a known amount of data coming every 1ms and therefore the output device needs to adjust it's playback speed / clock to be synchronous with the USB bus. Lastly, Asynchronous method let the output device dictate how much data is to be delivered every USB frame / every 1ms, so it's playback speed / clock can remain fixed and instead the data rate is being adjusted. This feedback information is being communicated by the output device back to the USB host say 30 times a second.

Your logs show that ALSA is getting some feedback as it's reporting momentary freq different than nominal. I wouldn't read too much into the fact the number is not changing during playback - perhaps thats just the way the logging works. It seems though that regardless of the rate feedback received, the data flow is not being adjusted. In any case, to really understand what's going on, one would have to look at the USB traffic with a bus analyzer. I'd volunteer for that, but I have no access to the SB Touch.

Dominik

Jek
01-02-11, 12:17 AM
All my stuff is in storage right now - when it gets out I will do a comparison. What would you say the differences are? I previously had the dacapo / dc / cardinal and then upgraded to the dacapo II cdp which was already a big improvement.

nikos
01-02-11, 02:26 AM
[QUOTE=JohnW;1280608]Nikos,

Apple currently does not support Hi-Res from iTunes, but most people still have 44.1 KHz files - iPad will handle these simply - and with no messing about, and that’s all most people including myself need. Until Music I care to listen too becomes readily available in Hi-Res I'm not going to lose any sleep over the iPad lack of HiRes support.

Sure there’s there are other devices that can replay Hi-Res Audio, but they rapidly get to complex for most people – I only want to listen to Music not become an expert computer user – this is where Apple scores – simple, easy – even my parents can use Apple devices…

Damaged and scratched CD's come in many forms - we cannot guarantee to play all forms of scratched disks - but off course the CDQ will play "decent" condition disks. The update software (CD Servo Rev 85) trades shock resistance (the unit being hit) in exchange for playability (better able to cope with scratched and damaged disks) - this software update can be performed by your local Audiolab service centre once it has been officially released - we are still testing it, but it should be available within a month.]

Hi John,

the cds i was refering that will not play are in brand new condition ( Jim Brock "Tropic Afair" by Reference Recordings, will not play, Patricia Barber "Cafe Blue" makes strange spinning noises ) .
Some times when i unload and reload the cd in the tray, it will play but with strange noises and clicks/pops. I have heard before that some drive units are sensitive to cds that the cetntral hole is drilled off-center. But that was ages ago. Todays cd-drives are more advanced.

In other players not such reading problems arise.
May be your new software will solve things. We will just have to wait and see. Please let me know whne the upgrade will be available in Greece.

Many thanks,

Nikos

gr0001
01-02-11, 03:09 AM
Yesterday I was doing some tests to identify the reason for the signal lock problem of my CDQ. I tested with 2 different computers and 2 different external sound cards to feed the cdq with spdif signal but also tried the usb connection directly to the cdq.

The results where that from time to time, when using the spdif connection, there was a very short (less than a sec) skip and on the cdq the message was "no lock". The problem was more frequent with 24/96 material. I use foobar and tried wasapi, kernel streaming and asio, all doing the same...

With the usb connection, I still sometimes have the problem, less frequent than spdif though. It is also happening with either wasapi or kernel but so far never happened with asio... The message on cdq this time is '' error''.

Any ideas what could be wrong? I was using the above setup with my previous dacs (beresford caiman and behringher ultramatch pro) without any problems at all.

Last but not least, when pulling the rca cable out from one of the inputs, the outer "ring" of the female plug of cdq (the grounding) come out too! :mad:
The connector of the rca cable I was using was tight but still never experienced any problem with my previous equipment. Anyway I pushed it back inside the plug and it is working for now but I do not know if there are issues with the connection. What if the grounding is not connected well? I am afraid that quality-wise there are issues that need reconsidering...

sq225917
01-02-11, 03:28 AM
Guys, please don't quote incorrect info, it's popular thread and these errors make their way into google searches.

itunes will play 24/96 and a mac will output that over Toslink, an Ipad is limited to 16.44.1 over the camera kit.

technobear
01-02-11, 04:19 AM
The results where that from time to time, when using the spdif connection, there was a very short (less than a sec) skip and on the cdq the message was "no lock". The problem was more frequent with 24/96 material. I use foobar and tried wasapi, kernel streaming and asio, all doing the same...

I too have had problems with foobar2000 and the USB link using WASAPI on both a Vista PC and a Windows 7 laptop. It plays fine for a while but then the sound breaks up and starts juddering for want of a better word - very fast skipping with a few other odd noises thrown in.

I changed to MediaMonkey and all is well so long as the PC is dedicated to music. My PCs are only Atom based and I find MediaMonkey can skip a bit if you start surfing the web. I guess on more normally powered PCs (or hovercraft as I call them) MM would be fine while other programs are running.

JohnW
01-02-11, 05:06 AM
gr0001,

While using the USB connection and "Error" is indicated then the computer has sent an "illegal" USB Frame packet (normally truncated) - there's nothing the CDQ can do, its only indicating that a bad frame has been received from the PC - this is NOT the fault of the CDQ.

For SPDIF locking issues - this could be due to a very high jitter source - normally the CDQ will try and "Auto Range" the internal PLL Bandwidth to maximise the Jitter attenuation performance - but it sounds like your sources are have a very high jitter content that "jump's about" in large discrete Time steps - the solution is to set the Digital input concerned (Digital input used with the high jitter source) from "Auto" to High Jitter BW - this is described in the user manual section 7b.

We recommend the "ESI Julia" sound card as this has proven low jitter SPDIF outputs that allow the best performance with the CDQ set to "Auto" PLL BW.

Yes, we have had cases where tight (Clamping type RCA plugs) grip the RCA ground ring so tight that they come away when pulling out the cable - if this happens, just reinsert the Ground ring - this is how the connectors are assembled so no harm will result.

The "Tighten to clamp" type RCA's should be loosen first before removing - to prevent this, this is only an issue with the Digital inputs / Digital output RCA jack - the Analogue out's have Very HQ solid machined type RCA jacks.

pcavelle
01-02-11, 05:17 AM
Can anyone advise me whether the 8200CDQ media player function will work direct to a NAS running a media client (iTunes probably), connected via USB - or - does it have to be via a PC?

Also - does the CDQ have a power off/on control via remote?

Thanks in advance

JohnW
01-02-11, 05:26 AM
gr0001,

Also to help "Buffer" the auio playback while the PC is operating under heavy CPU load, set any "Buffer Size" or "Buffer length" option to maxuim. This will have a greater effect at higher sample rates - such as 96KHz where the demands on the PC are higher.

JohnW
01-02-11, 05:36 AM
pcavelle,

The USB port on the CDQ is ONLY a USB "device" read "Slave" - so you cannot directly connect to a mass storage device such as a HDD or USB Memory stick etc.

However you can connect to iPad with Camera Kit - or to a PC etc - intelligent devices.

If a system is running iTunes, then this would suggest its "intelligent" and can stream as a "Host" to a "Dumb" Slave device such as the CDQ.

CDQ does not have standby mode due to the recent European "Green" regulations on current demands in "standby mode" - by next year, the only way to conform to standby requirements is to use an auxiliary "Switch Mode PSU” - these are generally detrimental to sound quality unless expense is spent on advance synchronisation clocking etc - but then does not ease conformity to low standby currents!!!

sam_cat
01-02-11, 05:39 AM
Am impressed with the performance of my brothers 8200CD, and am considering either the CD or the CDQ.

Couple of fairly simple questions:

Can two stereo amps be easily connected to either of the units? Would I need to use a Y splitter or could I use phonos for one and balanced - phono adapters for the other?

Can the 8200CD control the volume of its output?

Thanks,
Sam

JohnW
01-02-11, 05:42 AM
sq,

Quite right, clarified my posting,

John

JohnW
01-02-11, 05:54 AM
sam_cat,

Only the CDQ can be directly connect to power-amps (can adjust its volume level).

Two pairs power amps can be connected (I'm presuming you wish to Bi-amp), and there are several methods:-

1. Amplifiers such as the AudioLab 8200M's have input and pass-through connections allowing ease of "daisy chaining" amps

2. Use an RCA Y-splitter cable.

3. If your amps. are single-ended (no Balanced inputs), then you can make a cable that would take the "Positive" phase from the XLR jack to one amplifier, and the "Negative" phase of the XLR to the second amp (and on this amplifier reverse the speaker connections to maintain correct system phase).

3rd options the best, while not that complicated would require a special cable to be made up (XLR to 2x RCA - and to remember to swap the speaker phase for one amp output on each channel.

John

gr0001
01-02-11, 06:08 AM
gr0001,

While using the USB connection and "Error" is indicated then the computer has sent an "illegal" USB Frame packet (normally truncated) - there's nothing the CDQ can do, its only indicating that a bad frame has been received from the PC - this is NOT the fault of the CDQ.

For SPDIF locking issues - this could be due to a very high jitter source - normally the CDQ will try and "Auto Range" the internal PLL Bandwidth to maximise the Jitter attenuation performance - but it sounds like your sources are have a very high jitter content that "jump's about" in large discrete Time steps - the solution is to set the Digital input concerned (Digital input used with the high jitter source) from "Auto" to High Jitter BW - this is described in the user manual section 7b.

We recommend the "ESI Julia" sound card as this has proven low jitter SPDIF outputs that allow the best performance with the CDQ set to "Auto" PLL BW.

Yes, we have had cases where tight (Clamping type RCA plugs) grip the RCA ground ring so tight that they come away when pulling out the cable - if this happens, just reinsert the Ground ring - this is how the connectors are assembled so no harm will result.

The "Tighten to clamp" type RCA's should be loosen first before removing - to prevent this, this is only an issue with the Digital inputs / Digital output RCA jack - the Analogue out's have Very HQ solid machined type RCA jacks.

Thanks for the answers.

I will try the High Jitter option and let you know. The sound card I am using is the audiotrak prodigy cube which is supposed to have high quality components inside but still it is USB powered (in case this is causing the jitter problem).

pcavelle
01-02-11, 06:17 AM
Thanks for the quick reply John. Its a great product.

TimR
01-02-11, 06:41 AM
All my stuff is in storage right now - when it gets out I will do a comparison. What would you say the differences are? I previously had the dacapo / dc / cardinal and then upgraded to the dacapo II cdp which was already a big improvement.

Compared to the DaCapo (I've never heard the II, or the DC) ,with the CDQ you can hear the music being pulled apart in such a way that every instrument and vocal performance suddenly becomes an entity in its own right (and I mean this in a good way). Hard to believe, but the DaCapo actually sounds quite muddled by comparison (I tried swapping back). The difference really does smack you in the face. There's an improvement in bass too which is very obvious. I'm sure there's more to it than that, but I'm not as golden eared as some people on here. I just love what I hear :)

Another benefit for me is that the class A analogue pre-amp in the CDQ sounds superior to my Audiolab 8000AP, which has improved my turntable too! Ironically, the CDQ has lead to a bit of a vinyl revival in my house.

sam_cat
01-02-11, 07:12 AM
sam_cat,

Only the CDQ can be directly connect to power-amps (can adjust its volume level).

Two pairs power amps can be connected (I'm presuming you wish to Bi-amp), and there are several methods:-

1. Amplifiers such as the AudioLab 8200M's have input and pass-through connections allowing ease of "daisy chaining" amps




Many thanks John,

Am building my own amps (pair of HackerNAP's - see the DIY room if interested), the 1st is complete and am just starting the casework on the second so will go with option 1 and add a set of pass through connectors so I am not restriced down the road.

Will be borrowing my brothers 8200 CD again soon for a listen, just how much of an improvement acoustically is the CDQ over the CD?

Thanks agains for all your input. :)
Sam

TimR
01-02-11, 07:13 AM
Your logs show that ALSA is getting some feedback as it's reporting momentary freq different than nominal. I wouldn't read too much into the fact the number is not changing during playback - perhaps thats just the way the logging works. It seems though that regardless of the rate feedback received, the data flow is not being adjusted. In any case, to really understand what's going on, one would have to look at the USB traffic with a bus analyzer. I'd volunteer for that, but I have no access to the SB Touch.
Hi Dominik, I really appreciate that detailed reply. I will have a proper read throuh later and see how much of that I'm able to absorb! I guess the first task is to try and get the updated USB driver on to the SB and hope this fixes it. Please see my PM.
- Tim

Dominik
01-02-11, 07:17 AM
Thanks for the answers.

I will try the High Jitter option and let you know. The sound card I am using is the audiotrak prodigy cube which is supposed to have high quality components inside but still it is USB powered (in case this is causing the jitter problem).

The Cube is based on Tenor's USB controller. We've built a couple products around it as well. It seems to alter it's output frequency in abrupt steps which throws off the ultra low bandwidth PLL of our SPDIF receiver. The solution is to select Medium or High DPLL bandwidth on the particular CDQ's input.

technobear
01-02-11, 08:34 AM
gr0001,

Also to help "Buffer" the audio playback while the PC is operating under heavy CPU load, set any "Buffer Size" or "Buffer length" option to maximum. This will have a greater effect at higher sample rates - such as 96KHz where the demands on the PC are higher.

Good point - foobar2000 has this option and I had set it to minimum as I read somewhere that this maximises sound quality although I can't imagine why. I'll play with it later on.

JohnW
01-02-11, 08:47 AM
technobear,

With Foobar we need to move the "Buffer Length" slider to max to prevent system dropouts - So I guess this could well have been your issue...

John

Plutox
01-02-11, 09:23 AM
With Foobar we need to move the "Buffer Length" slider to max to prevent system dropouts
I have found the combination of Foobar / Windows 7 / WASAPI to be a bit unstable - rather dropout-prone.

Problem solved by using ASIO output via ASIO4ALL - very stable (playing 24/96 files) with Foobar buffering cranked up to the max (c. 15 seconds), in spite of very low power (Atom-based) petite laptop which seems to suffer from slow-ish WiFi link.

I'm not at all sure there is anything that could be done to make WASAPI work better, but the ASIO kludge is stable with all the audio I can throw at it, and sounds superb!

JohnW
01-02-11, 09:54 AM
Hi Plutox,

Are you using a 8200CD or CDQ?

John

Plutox
01-02-11, 09:58 AM
Plutox,

Are you using a 8200CD or CDQ?

CDQ.

I'm eagerly awaiting your take on this one!!

I ought to stress that all my tests so far have been using WiFi from a server. WASAPI may well work fine when playing from the local hard disk. I'll check tonight.

arthur
01-02-11, 10:10 AM
So..the second CDQis a few days and many,many hrs old and is performing faultlessly so far:D:D:D

I'm genuinely delighted that such excellent SQ costs so little, and I haven't gotten to hi-res/usb yet (frightened!).

I have a naive question for those interested in such things.

Is it worthwhile making up a shieded power cable for the cdq to cut back on any rfi (if they do), or are the power supplies so well regulated that it would be at best a waste of money.

I profess mighty ignorance of all things electrical. The reason I ask is that I was sent a pair of mega chunky Isotek elite power cables free with my Adam Audio Compacts and they look cool:p:p

Don't know if they are better than normal ones or not and I cant be arsed to test it out, partly because I don't have 3mtr kettle cables.

Cheers, Arthur.

ps, I'd be interested in John and Dominic's opinion on this, though I think I remember a skeptical comment on cable efficacy from John in the past.

ChrisPa
01-02-11, 10:29 AM
Good point - foobar2000 has this option and I had set it to minimum as I read somewhere that this maximises sound quality although I can't imagine why. I'll play with it later on.No, minimum buffer minimises lag, and if the link runs out of time to provide a continuous data stream - which is what is happening here - then the sound will cut out (as you can hear)

The prime reason for minimum lag is if you are trying to synchronise sound with images - in that case if you delay the sound to much you will get the sound an image out of sync.

Chris

PhilM
01-02-11, 11:18 AM
Hi John, everyone

The Rothwell In-Line Attenuators look like an interesting solution for hiss - thanks for suggesting that. Do you have a view on their broader impact on sound quality? I remember you saying that an advantage of the digital pre amp is the lack of additional components in the signal chain and this would be adding another component..

The hiss level in my system with digital pre is extremely noticeable in quiet piano and violin pieces so I do need a long term solution. The sound quality and particularly soundstage is so good in digital pre that I am reluctant to use the analogue, although as others have noted there are times when the analogue works better, for me on some brighter recordings.

Just a note, I have had no reliability issues (touching every bit of wood in room), my unit has worked flawlessly with every CD and running foobar on XP with ASIO4ALL - I just need a good balanced power amp and a speaker upgrade :D

John, your offer to install the latest firmware at the bristol show is an excellent gesture - even though I don't have any current issues I will probably take the chance to get the latest firmware if that is ok.

JohnW
01-02-11, 11:54 AM
PhilM,

Resistors (used in the In-Line Attenuators) are passive components and are as about a linear component you can get - so I would not expect much loss in SQ - in fact they may even improve your systems performance if you find yourself using the Volume control set to lower levels (as it sounds like your system has very high Gain), say around -25dB and below. Adding the attenuators would allow higher volume settings and thus less Digital attenuation performed.

Place the Attenuators at then power amplifier end of the cable, not at the CDQ end; this will allow the CDQ's Hi Current OPS to Drive the cable correctly,

Yep - I'll be more then happy to update units at Bristol :)

reverendo
01-02-11, 12:25 PM
So..the second CDQis a few days and many,many hrs old and is performing faultlessly so far:D:D:D

I'm genuinely delighted that such excellent SQ costs so little, and I haven't gotten to hi-res/usb yet (frightened!).

I have a naive question for those interested in such things.

Is it worthwhile making up a shieded power cable for the cdq to cut back on any rfi (if they do), or are the power supplies so well regulated that it would be at best a waste of money.

I profess mighty ignorance of all things electrical. The reason I ask is that I was sent a pair of mega chunky Isotek elite power cables free with my Adam Audio Compacts and they look cool:p:p

Don't know if they are better than normal ones or not and I cant be arsed to test it out, partly because I don't have 3mtr kettle cables.

Cheers, Arthur.

ps, I'd be interested in John and Dominic's opinion on this, though I think I remember a skeptical comment on cable efficacy from John in the past.
arthur,
I'va ALWAYS had very favorable results using good power chords, though results depended a lot on which cable was being used... hope I don't get flamed for believing in cables.
best regards
André

arthur
01-02-11, 01:35 PM
arthur,
I'va ALWAYS had very favorable results using good power chords, though results depended a lot on which cable was being used... hope I don't get flamed for believing in cables.
best regards
André

Think I'll give it a go then, it can hardly hurt I imagine. :)

Plutox
01-02-11, 02:20 PM
...here's the position. This is an Asus Eee PC 1015, Windows 7 Starter if you want to check its specs. but suffice it to say it's rather tame by today's typical standards. It has 2GB memory, and all this testing was done with a 24/96 (FLAC) file and Foobar 1.1.2.

WASAPI really isn't satisfactory - tested with file on local hard drive - does not play at all with Foobar buffer set to anything > 120mS. Does play with buffer setting below that but audio glitches at the slightest opportunity - clearly not a great listening experience!

ASIO playback via ASIO4ALL is far more satisfactory. With file on server and Foobar buffer set to its maximum (15S), WiFi playback works a treat - very stable and all normal computer work (except for long operations that choke the WiFi link) can be continued without problems with the playback.

Foobar seems rather good at dragging enough from the WiFi network to get itself going (typically 5 seconds), continues to fill its buffer as fast as it can for about another 5-10 seconds then relaxes into the "cruise" and continues to draw on the network at about half the original rate, presumably to maintain the buffer. If a network glitch arises, it seems to go through this cycle again. Impressive, and sound is highly satisfying.

But WASAPI? Unless anyone can suggest a serious tweak that might sort it out on this petite machine, forget it!

JohnW
01-02-11, 02:41 PM
Hi Plutox,

Thank you for posting your results and solutions - getting things going when computers (and Microsoft) are involved always seems a hassle...

John

technobear
01-02-11, 03:54 PM
WASAPI really isn't satisfactory - tested with file on local hard drive - does not play at all with Foobar buffer set to anything > 120mS. Does play with buffer setting below that but audio glitches at the slightest opportunity - clearly not a great listening experience!


Yep. Tried it this evening and my experience is exactly the same as yours.

I'll try ASIO4All next time I get a minute.

LittleToast
01-02-11, 08:48 PM
Last night Dane came over and brought his CDQ so I can test it out on my Adams Compact 3. Must say unlike Arthur I wasn't given any good power cords to go with it when I bought it.

We could not do serious listening as we don't have good balanced cables at hand to connect the CDQ to the Adams. Mine was a brand new and unused Zaolla Silverline balanced cable. Dane has a pair of very long audioquests from his friend.

1) The CDQ sounds pretty good. I have had an EE Minimax that uses the same chip previously. Surprisingly by memory I feel the minimax does not sound worse than the CDQ. I could be wrong, but suffice to say that both are worth checking out. The CDQ, with its remote control, flexibility (controls the pc software as well), balanced outputs makes it very usable. A more worthy test should be done on a well setup system. Mine isn't one as I don't have a current preamp nor DAC.

2) With the CDQ, the Adams sounded pretty bright. When we swap interconnects from the audioquest to the zaolla, and then to my unbalanced silver interconnect with rca-xlr adapters to the adams, we can hear distinct sound differences. When I get the DQ or the CDQ, this is something I will need to look at.

3) We tried playing a cd directly on the CDQ compared to playing it on my CEC transport. Playing directly makes the music sounds more dynamic but playing it through the CEC transport makes the music sounds more relaxed while still maintaining a lot of energy. I prefer the music with the transport. We were using an Ack! coaxial cable (copperr) with an BNC to RCA adapter to fit the CDQ.

4) At our request, my wife sat down to listen for a while. She likes the CDQ. That's important for me. Years ago I brought her to a hifi show and only music she likes is the one in AudioNote room. Since she has no idea of the price and brands of any audio equipment, she is Miss Objective.

5) I feel the CDQ has good build quality. True that the buttons on CDQ can have more tactile feel and the tray can look better but these are minor grouses. The remote control feels weighty. However, I am not sure how long the soft rubber grip at the back will last if it is not used often. By experience such materials do degenerate if not used for a long time.

6) I suspect Dane's CDQ is still breaking in. It should sound even better with time.

7) Dane's unit has no hissing problems. We need to put our ears right next to the the tweeter to hear a small hiss. It is more than within the norm. We also have no problems playing different CDs. So I am happy for Dane :).

8) I sold off the EE Minimax DAC as its output impedance of 10k is too high for my Adams (input impedance of only 10k) and as a result the unbalanced silver interconnects pick up frequencies in the air and the speaker gives off a high pitch ring. John has told me the output impedance of the CDQ is 0 ohms (if I don't remember wrongly). Indeed, with the CDQ, there is no "ringing problems" on my Adams.

http://i755.photobucket.com/albums/xx196/littletoast/P1953_01-02-11.jpg

I would like to thank Dane who made the trip. He came straight after work and I probably delayed his dinner date :). And in the excitement of it all, I only offered him water :o. Thanks Dane!

dane
01-02-11, 09:35 PM
Littletoast, you are most welcome. It is always interesting to hear different set-ups and hear other enthutiast's opinion and experience.

Was thinking, your silver rca cables are completely unshielded which I guess is why noise is picked up.

Remember the CDQ wasnt level on your shelf - one footer in the air? I have the same problem at home but until I had it a your place, I thought is was a problem with my home made rack. going to have a look what causes this..

On the listening, there is no doubt that Littletoast's Adam speakers are brighter and more detailed than my previous Dynaudio Focus 140's and while I preferred the OS filter in my setup, the OT filter(s) seemed more suitable with the Adam speakers.

Pit Brett
01-02-11, 11:43 PM
Hello,
I have an 8200CD which currently is used for CD playing only. The first thing I noticed when I placed it on my HiFi rack was: one foot does not hit the ground. I put it on a table: same as in the rack. Then I had a look at the feet. They are all fitted flush to the base plate and have the same height. Conclusion: the base plate itself is not plane.
OK, I put some folded paper under the right foot at the back and connected the 8200 to my amplifier and put the first CD into the drawer.

The drawer itself seemed to be very unstable and a little noisy. I think this part does not match the price and the quality of the rest of the device.

When listening to the first CD, I tried to skip to another track pressing a number button on the remote. Then the player stopped and a reading error was displayed. I had to switch power off/on to reset it. The CD was an original, one year old one without any scratches. Same thing happened later with another new, original CD when stopping replay using the pause button: reading error.
The errors only occurred with original CDs. A nine year old copy ran without any hassle.

Next trouble: It was really fiddly to change the filter setting. I had to press the filter button for a long time before the actual filter was displayed and changing to another one was tricky. Even worse, now I can press the filter button for minutes and nothing happens at all …

The 8200CD replaces an eleven years old low budget Denon player which never ever had any problems reading a CD. Even the CD drawer seems to be of a more stable build than the Audiolab‘s.

I like the sound very much, especially with CDs which are produced exceptionally good. But, at this price level, I would expect a bullet-proof operation of CDs because it is labeled a CD player first and foremost.
Now, I am waiting for a replacement by the German distributor.

Thanks to John and Dominik for their contributions to this discussion. I can’t imagine a Mr. Yamaha or Mr. Denon doing the same…

Best regards
Stefan
Germany

dane
02-02-11, 12:30 AM
I just investigated the levelling of the feet on the CDQ and I must conclude that it is not a problem of the CDQ, but the shelf in my home made rack that is not completely level.. Littletoast's rack must also be slightly off level since we had the same problem at his place.

On a general note on the built and reliability of the CD/CDQ. The machines are made in China (something I actually try to avoid if possible) and with a budget in mind. I guess we have to live with this, and at least I havent had any reliability problems with my unit.

If we want this level of sound quality AND matching built and reliability we would probably have to pay 3-5 times the price for a made in Japan product.

Let's see how the CD/CDQ will last in the long term.. Fingers crossed!

Calvin&Hobbes
02-02-11, 09:48 AM
Dane, I don't think that "made in China" should be used as an argument, where hardware doesn't meet expectations. Even Krell is producing to a very high standard in China nowadays. What strikes me is that John and Dominik are not only gifted developers but also, as a side-function, seem to represent the testing, demo and repair department of Audiolab. Certainly, we together are all prominent members of the testing department :p John earlier pointed out that the choice of display, feet, etc. were not his (Audiolab marketing). My guess would be that 10% addition to selling price could already have covered these production issues.
Brett, indeed reading errors are frustrating. I also encounter this. However, a software update is on it's way (recent post by John).
Little Toast, strikes me that your Adam speakers are on the same shelf as the rest of your gear? Solid stands potentially improve a lot! Also, an uneven shelf can easily be solved with ... three isolation cones. I agree on the difference that interconnects can make. Ideally they are transparent and neutral.
I have a keen eye on the Furutech G-320Ag-18 (IEC) powercord (1,8 meters): will set me back some 130 euros. According to John that's about the maximum you should spend on this tweak. http://www.whathifi.com/Review/Furutech-G-320AG/
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/whitelightning/moonshine_2.html
Any other powercord recommendations?

jelmer
02-02-11, 12:42 PM
Hello all,

I've been enjoying my 8200CD for almost 3 weeks now, mostly for cd's but also an occasional usb-connection, but have been having problems the last two days. It doesn't power up! Have tried switching power cords, removing and resetting the fuse, using the spare fuse (though they look fine)...pretty much all I can think of.
Anyone a bright idea before shipping it back to the dealer (which is in Germany)?

regards,
Jelmer
the Netherlands

JohnW
02-02-11, 01:32 PM
Hi Jelmer,

I'm very sorry to hear of your issue, unfortunately with now well over 5K 8200CD's sold a few will have the odd issue.

Could you Pls. forward the Serial# of your unit? if its from the very first batch's then my first thoughts would be that it could have "over written" it’s software - this was an unknown bug to us at the time with the Philips 8051 MCU we used on the front panel - later units have been updated to prevent this Memory loss issue.

The Philips MCU when shipped new, have an internal programming software payload to allow ISP (In System Programming) which is used to program the "Blank" device's on the production line - which under certain conditions can be entered upon power up due to a poorly designed "Brownout" circuit within the Philips MCU (the Memory pointers are not reset correctly, and code is executed from the incorrect Memory location - in this case the ISP code space). Once this program area has been entered, the MCU runs the ISP code and proceeds to "wipe" its own code stored in its onboard Flash memory - real design brilliance by Philips!

Although rare - it can happen, with well over 5K manufactured 8200CD since launch, this would be the second machine I'm aware that has this issue (but then thinking about it, only the first production batches are susceptible to this issue - we updated later production batches with an external Brownout circuit for the front panel MCU).

If it’s the case your machine has overwritten its own memory (and not some other fault), then we will fit an updated front panel - and update your software.

The only other machine we have seen with this issue (appart from on my Lab Bench) was returned from Greece of all places...

Between both the CD & CDQ we are now producing over 2K Pcs per month, we are striving to improve these types of issues which only effect a very small number of units, but start to become apparent when you produce larger quantities – and with increasing numbers of units in daily operation.

Again - I'm sorry for this issue,

John

TimR
02-02-11, 01:54 PM
Place the Attenuators at then power amplifier end of the cable, not at the CDQ end; this will allow the CDQ's Hi Current OPS to Drive the cable correctly

Got my Rothwell attenuators today, but have hit an unexpected problem to do with my 8000AP surround processor. The CDQ sits between this and the power amp, and i switch to home theatre mode (0db) when listneing to 5.1. The attenuators have dropped the level of the front speakers by -12dB, which is great. Unfortunately, the 8000AP software only allows me to drop the levels of the rear and centre speakers by max -10dB. This would be fine if it also allowed me to bring up the levels of the front speakers, but it only allows me to do this on the front right. The front left appears to be used as a reference and does not have any adjustment available. As a result, using a sound meter I'm unable to get the volume the same on all speakers.

Edit: I almost had a eureka moment, thinking I could use the trim on the CDQ analogue input to bring the fronts up by a couple of dB, but this is obviously not available for home theatre mode, which is (rightly) fixed at 0dB. Doh!

JohnW
02-02-11, 03:00 PM
TimR,

I just got out of the bath - where I was just thinking about the possablity of this very problem - not knowing if the AP can trim its main channels. I cannot believe that the very next post is about this very subject - is this some kind of "drive me mad" conspiracy?

We could always update the software to allow level trim in "HT Mode" - but 12dB is rather a large amount to "Boost" - worried about output voltage swing limitations... But if a couple of dB would do, then that would be possible (or even say +6dB, then you would only need to trim down the other surround channels by -6dB).

You could always add attenuators on the other AP channels - but agreed not a nice idea...

John

PegLeg
02-02-11, 03:33 PM
This is a long thread so I may have missed it. But is anyone here using (or has tested) the CDQ USB input when driven by Linux?

dre_
02-02-11, 03:46 PM
This is a long thread so I may have missed it. But is anyone here using (or has tested) the CDQ USB input when driven by Linux?

I did read the full thread, and Linux has not been mentioned yet.
I'm considering to either use a squeezebox touch or a netbook with Linux
(squeezebox also runs linux) I briefly browsed the internet if there are other people driving their DAC with linux via USB. I think audio should not be a problem to stream. Maybe I can also stream video with it, and having a more versatile device for the money of a SB. I haven't found out how I can fit it all in my closset though ;)

TimR
02-02-11, 03:50 PM
is this some kind of "drive me mad" conspiracy?

Sorry John, I did actually feel quite bad mentioning this after all the help you've given me :(
I see this as a problem with AP software though, not really the CDQ. I think it should be letting me trim the front-left channel. Is there any chance you could give someone at Audiolab a nudge? I will report it to their support desk, but I imagine my lone voice will have little impact. The AP firmware is actually dead easy to upgrade myself if a patch could be issued. I won't hold my breath though.

JohnW
02-02-11, 04:16 PM
Hi Tim,

Pls. dont feel bad, its only my warped humour :)

I will ask Dominik to add the HT Trim, I can update your unit on my way to / from the Bristol show - this will solve the issue.

John

sq225917
02-02-11, 04:31 PM
John if there was some award for audio sainthood, you'd get it .

reverendo
02-02-11, 04:38 PM
John if there was some award for audio sainthood, you'd get it .
X2 :D

PegLeg
03-02-11, 02:18 AM
I did read the full thread, and Linux has not been mentioned yet.


Well, not surprisingly, the current 8200CDQ manual only refeers to its use with Windows or Mac OS. I'd really like some real world feedback on using the CDQ's USB input under Linux. How does the CDQ show up as an USB device in dmesg or lsusb and is it recognised by ALSA? How does CDQ USB perform under Linux (which is USB audio classs 2 ready) ? Are the Windows/WASAPI/Foobar glitches etc. as discussed on this thread present in any form when using the CDQ with Linux?

Have the 8200CDQ development team ever tested it with Linux?

striped67
03-02-11, 05:06 AM
I did read the full thread, and Linux has not been mentioned yet.
I'm considering to either use a squeezebox touch or a netbook with Linux
(squeezebox also runs linux) I briefly browsed the internet if there are other people driving their DAC with linux via USB. I think audio should not be a problem to stream. Maybe I can also stream video with it, and having a more versatile device for the money of a SB. I haven't found out how I can fit it all in my closset though ;)

This is exactly the configuration I am considering - SB Touch with the USB mod or a netbook running Linux and probably XBMC. I'm waiting for the DQ, though, so plenty of time to sort out the details and also build the cupboard that is going to house it all ;)

On that subject, a question for JohnW or Dominik - I assume the DQ will run as hot as the CDQ, so is there any minimum space I need to give it for ventilation?

LittleToast
03-02-11, 08:58 AM
Little Toast, strikes me that your Adam speakers are on the same shelf as the rest of your gear? Solid stands potentially improve a lot!

Calvin&Hobbes: I have space constraint so are not really able to have separate speaker stands :( The wooden shelf you see is made up of 4 whole pieces of 300 over years old "mui" wood put together and takes two men to carry. It is pretty sturdy. I was thinking if I give up on the hobby one day I can use it as a bench..haha...And I put the speakers on Prima Acoustics Recoil stabilizers. The downside is that speaker placement is restricted as the speakers are pretty close together. Each speaker has a footprint of 23by29cm and I am unfamiliar with suitable stands. Any suggestions would be welcome.

Dane: yeah, the wires pick up the frequencies in the air as they are unshielded :)

At the back of the adam compact 3, I tune the gain to -10 dB. Yet on the CDQ, a comfortable listening level is -20dB if I am not wrong. The CDQ would probably sound better at a higher volume? Perhaps the Adam Compact 3's gain is too high.

pcavelle
03-02-11, 09:33 AM
I have a curious quirk on my CDQ - the Video input has stopped working.

It was working fine, in Home Theater mode, then suddenly stopped. I have now set Tuner to Home Theater mode, and that works fine, without any different setup than I had for the Video input.

I have checked the Video input in standard mode (ie Home Theater disabled) with Sonos connected, and there is no sound.

Is it possible for a single input to 'burn out' or could I have set something incorrectly for this input in one of the menus?

Thanks in advance if anyone can advise.

jelmer
03-02-11, 09:37 AM
Hi Jelmer,

Could you Pls. forward the Serial# of your unit? if its from the very first batch's then my first thoughts would be that it could have "over written" it’s software - this was an unknown bug to us at the time with the Philips 8051 MCU we used on the front panel - later units have been updated to prevent this Memory loss issue.

John

Hi John,

Thanks for the explanation. Serial# is B00419.

Best regards,
Jelmer

TimR
03-02-11, 11:44 AM
I will ask Dominik to add the HT Trim, I can update your unit on my way to / from the Bristol show - this will solve the issue.
Just seen this... Am I really "on your way", or are you just saying that?
I have to say, I just wouldn' feel comfortable seeing you spending any more than, say, 6 extra hours to get to me :D

Seriously though, this is a typically generous offer from you, and I'd be a fool to turn it down, but I won't hold you to it. If nothing else, I really don't want your death from physical exhaustion on my hands! If it does come to pass though, at least accept a drink this time :)

Edit: the visit, that is. Not your death!

arthur
03-02-11, 01:25 PM
Calvin&Hobbes: I have space constraint so are not really able to have separate speaker stands :( The wooden shelf you see is made up of 4 whole pieces of 300 over years old "mui" wood put together and takes two men to carry. It is pretty sturdy. I was thinking if I give up on the hobby one day I can use it as a bench..haha...And I put the speakers on Prima Acoustics Recoil stabilizers. The downside is that speaker placement is restricted as the speakers are pretty close together. Each speaker has a footprint of 23by29cm and I am unfamiliar with suitable stands. Any suggestions would be welcome.

Dane: yeah, the wires pick up the frequencies in the air as they are unshielded :)

At the back of the adam compact 3, I tune the gain to -10 dB. Yet on the CDQ, a comfortable listening level is -20dB if I am not wrong. The CDQ would probably sound better at a higher volume? Perhaps the Adam Compact 3's gain is too high.

Hi LT.

I'd have to agree. My Compacts are also on -10 gain and I can't get past -30db without scaring the neighbours or about -28 db without knocking my wig off.

Still getting to love them though with the CDQ. So much so that even though I picked up my new 50'' plasma today I'm not watching it, or even setting it up.

I'm listening to Mozart's Clarinet Concerto instead. And before that Billy Idol, and before that Coldplay, and before that Prefab Sprout. Next up is some Bach violin Concertos.

So as you see the CDQ is simply very addictive:D

Actually it is of course the music that is addictive, but the CDQ that presents it so well that I cant even consider turning on my shiny new telly and watching a backlog of films.......

More power to tunes everywhere.:cool:

loris.p
04-02-11, 01:35 AM
John, Dominik,
the 8200cdq feature page in the audiolab website still has:
"User-selectable digital filter settings – software upggradeable via USB port".:rolleyes:
It shoud be corrected.
Loris

TimR
04-02-11, 12:12 PM
Today I discovered a way of playing my SACD discs into the CDQ.

What you need is an SACD player with PCM over HDMI out (like my OPPO BDP-83) and a surround processor with HDMI in and SPDIF out (like my Audiolab 8000AP).

By playing the SACD into the AP via HDMI in LPCM format, and then routing the AP's SPDIF-out into one of the CDQ digital inputs, the AP is effectively acting as an HDMI to SPDIF converter, which I thought wasn't allowed! I'm now enjoying my SACD discs at 88.2kHz via the CDQ DAC. Just don't think about the jitter.... ;)

Thinks: Hmm... with the right sound card, does this mean I can now rip my SACDs to FLAC ...? I've never heard of this being done before. Ignoring the DSD->PCM conversion, I'm guessing the resulting files would be a bit-perfect copy (?)

Calvin&Hobbes
04-02-11, 01:50 PM
Hi TimR, well done. Just wondering: why would you like to convert SACD's to FLAC when SACD's are double layer, i.e. CD compatible? Just put it in the CDQ drawer and play! Or am I missing something?

TimR
04-02-11, 01:55 PM
That's true for 44.1kHz, but my post is referring to the hi-def 2ch 88.2kHz layer. The only way to get this into the CDQ in a jitter free manner is via the async USB

vincent s
04-02-11, 06:00 PM
John - Dominic - thanks for your access on the site.

I am leaning to getting a CDQ but would want to link in with my apple lossless library which is on a lower level of my house.

Q
1. are you likely to add Airplay functionality to any of your upcoming products ?

2. I know the airport express has largish jitter - but does the CDQ or other products clean it up enough or would you still rather avoid using one ?

3. The apple tv 2 has no hard drive, but is its jitter much better and OK in your view ?

many thanks - Vincent

cstanpfm
04-02-11, 07:13 PM
Not all SACDs are "dual layer" or hybrids.

Hi TimR, well done. Just wondering: why would you like to convert SACD's to FLAC when SACD's are double layer, i.e. CD compatible? Just put it in the CDQ drawer and play! Or am I missing something?

alenzo
05-02-11, 11:37 AM
Hi John and Dominik,

please can you specify a power of headphones output. And is it possible to connect balanced K701 to XLR output to the cdq? I think that there is no diference between rca and hedaphone output olny one relay, isnt it.

Thank you.

staffyman
05-02-11, 03:24 PM
Hi all ,just got a 8200cd on demo its very good, knocks spots off my marantz cd17 ki .Much more detail and image with very good bass ,played though a audiolab Q pre ,bi amp audiolab p+px with kef reference 1 speakers (kimber 8tc +vdh cables).
love to hear the cdq ,how much better is it ?

anubisgrau
05-02-11, 03:27 PM
any reports on CDQ vs m2tech young DAC?

sq225917
05-02-11, 05:10 PM
Not yet. Should anyone want to provide the CDQ part of that test I'm available anytime with the Young.

Synfreak
06-02-11, 02:58 AM
Thinks: Hmm... with the right sound card, does this mean I can now rip my SACDs to FLAC ...? I've never heard of this being done before. Ignoring the DSD->PCM conversion, I'm guessing the resulting files would be a bit-perfect copy (?)

Hi TimR!

Cool!
There are several ways to record a SACD to PCM converted signal (or send it to a DAC), like the mentioned HDMI to SPDIF splitters or modded players (i.e. search for Audiopraise).

You can record that SPDIF stream with a soundcard/interface like a ESI Julia or some USB based box like gear from Tascam or ESI or ...

Using Audacity or similar software for recording, splicing and even concert the files to FLAC ...

Cheers
Harald

basseed
06-02-11, 04:56 AM
Hello, since I am interested in buying one of these 8200cdq units I would like to ask a few question to the designer John Westlake and to the current owners.

1) I am worried about the output voltage of the unit, the spec shows 4.1V RMS wich is much more than the +4dbu output (max) of my current audio interface. Confortable listening levels with my Focal Solo6 be are -30db under +4dbu.
The active monitors have these input specs: Input :
Type/Impedance: symmetrical/10 kOhms
Connector: XLR
Sensitivity: Adjustable, +4dBu or -10dBV

2) I would like some more information about the cd transport (the mechanics) used, it's reliability/quality and if it's silent and fast.

3) I have noticed that on the cd/cdq pcb there are some empty places wich could host components that are missing. How could this happen in a new design?

Thank you,

Marco

arthur
06-02-11, 05:32 AM
Hello, since I am interested in buying one of these 8200cdq units I would like to ask a few question to the designer John Westlake and to the current owners.

1) I am worried about the output voltage of the unit, the spec shows 4.1V RMS wich is much more than the +4dbu output (max) of my current audio interface. Confortable listening levels with my Focal Solo6 be are -30db under +4dbu.
The active monitors have these input specs: Input :
Type/Impedance: symmetrical/10 kOhms
Connector: XLR
Sensitivity: Adjustable, +4dBu or -10dBV

2) I would like some more information about the cd transport (the mechanics) used, it's reliability/quality and if it's silent and fast.

3) I have noticed that on the cd/cdq pcb there are some empty places wich could host components that are missing. How could this happen in a new design?

Thank you,

Marco

Hi Marco.All of these questions have already been answered elsewhere in the thread several times.

For completeness there is no substitute for reading the whole lot:)

Only takes about half an hour or so...;)

Joe
06-02-11, 06:09 AM
Only takes about half an hour or so...;)


At 106 pages I would like to see you time yourself on that!

arthur
06-02-11, 06:18 AM
At 106 pages I would like to see you time yourself on that!

Well....ok...perhaps half a day :p

dane
06-02-11, 06:26 AM
think someone mentioned concern about it before, the rubberish surface on the side and back of the remote is coming off after 1 month of ownership... suggest audiolab change the remote to plain plastic or improve the quality of the rubbery material.

dane
06-02-11, 06:27 AM
Arthur, set your active speakers to -10db and u can run higher output on the CDQ.

arthur
06-02-11, 07:11 AM
Arthur, set your active speakers to -10db and u can run higher output on the CDQ.

Hi Dane.

Yup, done that. I think they just have a quite high gain anyway.

Not that it's a concern, it all sounds mighty good. I just wonder if I'm losing any sq by not using the last 30db or so range. But as it's digital attenuation in 32 bit, I doubt it.

Cheers, Arthur.

Jaye
06-02-11, 07:19 AM
From the Gruaniad Weekend Q&A page:

When were you happiest?
During my first critical listening of the Audiolab 8200cdq.

What is your greatest fear?
The cdq malfunctioning.

What is your earliest memory?
Unpacking my Audiolab 8200cdq.

Which living person do you most admire?
John Westlake.

What was your most embarrassing moment?
Switching on my cdq for the first time, and then realising I hadn’t connected it.

Property aside, what’s the most expensive thing you’ve bought?
My Audiolab 8200cdq.

What is your most treasured possession?
The receipt.

What would your super power be?
A better set of ears.

What makes you unhappy?
Being parted from my cdq.

Who would play you in the film of your life?
John Westlake.

What is your most unappealing habit?
Laughing when other people tell me what cd player they own.

What or who is the greatest love of your life?
My spouse, for agreeing to the purchase of my cdq.

What living person do you most despise and why?
Right now I just feel the love.

What would be your fancy dress of choice?
Something to prettify my cdq.

What is the worse thing anyone’s said to you?
“All cd players sound the same”.

What was the worse job you’ve done?
None – without work – no cdq.

What has been your biggest disappointment?
Worrying that that more recent cdqs have been tweaked and upgraded, and JW isn’t going to come to Yorkshire just to upgrade mine (serial no 82cdqs0160).

If you could go back in time where would you go?
The beginning of this track.

When did you last cry and why?
When describing the cdq’s sound quality.

What keeps you awake at night?
Wondering when I’ll next get to listen to my cdq.

What song would you like played at your funeral?
I don’t give a f***, as long as it’s played on a cdq.

How would you like to be remembered?
As a good listener.

Where would you most like to be right now?
Slightly closer to the speakers.

What is the most important lesson life has taught you?
Don’t be so bl**dy obsessive.

Tell us a joke.
Why would John Westlake make such a good mafia hit-man?
‘Cos he’d blow away the competition.

basseed
06-02-11, 07:54 AM
Hello, since I am interested in buying one of these 8200cdq units I would like to ask a few question to the designer John Westlake and to the current owners.

1) I am worried about the output voltage of the unit, the spec shows 4.1V RMS wich is much more than the +4dbu output (max) of my current audio interface. Confortable listening levels with my Focal Solo6 be are -30db under +4dbu.
The active monitors have these input specs: Input :
Type/Impedance: symmetrical/10 kOhms
Connector: XLR
Sensitivity: Adjustable, +4dBu or -10dBV

2) I would like some more information about the cd transport (the mechanics) used, it's reliability/quality and if it's silent and fast.

3) I have noticed that on the cd/cdq pcb there are some empty places wich could host components that are missing. How could this happen in a new design?

Thank you,

Marco

I must add that I have spent some hours reading this thread (like 70%), and I could not find replies to my questions. Thank you.

Marco

sq225917
06-02-11, 08:00 AM
Loads of bits of kit come with spaces on the pcb, they are typically for test apparatus used during the development of the boards or for when the same board is used in different kit. My Marantz KI17 main pcb was barely half populated, it was re-used in 3 other machines with different parts.

dre_
06-02-11, 08:10 AM
I must add that I have spent some hours reading this thread (like 70%), and I could not find replies to my questions. Thank you.

Marco

It is not dealt with as such, but a suggestoin mentioned earlier is to add Rothwell attenuators. Added bonus is better noise performance.

technobear
06-02-11, 08:19 AM
1) I am worried about the output voltage of the unit, the spec shows 4.1V RMS wich is much more than the +4dbu output (max) of my current audio interface. Confortable listening levels with my Focal Solo6 be are -30db under +4dbu.


With the volume set at 0dB, the CDQ outputs 2V just like most other CD players on the market today.


2) I would like some more information about the cd transport (the mechanics) used, it's reliability/quality and if it's silent and fast.


The transport is a Sony KSM313.

It is fast and silent.

3) I have noticed that on the cd/cdq pcb there are some empty places wich could host components that are missing. How could this happen in a new design?


:rolleyes:

basseed
06-02-11, 08:45 AM
With the volume set at 0dB, the CDQ outputs 2V just like most other CD players on the market today.

Hi, the specs says 4.1v on the balanced output


The transport is a Sony KSM313.

It is fast and silent.

Cool

:rolleyes:

I'm sorry if I said something inappropriate, but I still don't get it.

Thank you

technobear
06-02-11, 10:55 AM
Hi, the specs says 4.1v on the balanced output


I don't understand why manufacturers of CD players have found it necessary to output these absurdly high voltages. Most power amps need from 0.5 to 1.0 Volts for full output so why would a CD player ever need to output 2 Volts, let alone 4.1 Volts.

+4dBU is only 1.228 Volts, 0dBU being 0.775 Volts.

-10dBV is 0.316 Volts, 0dBV being 1 Volt.

basseed
06-02-11, 12:20 PM
I don't understand why manufacturers of CD players have found it necessary to output these absurdly high voltages. Most power amps need from 0.5 to 1.0 Volts for full output so why would a CD player ever need to output 2 Volts, let alone 4.1 Volts.

+4dBU is only 1.228 Volts, 0dBU being 0.775 Volts.

-10dBV is 0.316 Volts, 0dBV being 1 Volt.

Problem is it would be unusable with my current speakers at that voltage. I wonder, like you, why would they put almost 4 times the voltage wich's used commonly for balanced operation. I'd have to attenuate it to like -70db wich would mean bye bye to sound quality.

Also, really, praising the digital attenuation over the analog control and then recommend inline attenuators?

staffyman
06-02-11, 01:21 PM
Hi all ,been playing about with the 8200cd i have on demo .Tried my cd17 ki as transport feeding the 8200cd and the sound is not as good ,less detail, separation and sparkle.Was going to wait for the dac , but will the cdq sound better ?
any one else tried the cdq with a separate transport ?

TimR
06-02-11, 02:46 PM
Hi all ,been playing about with the 8200cd i have on demo .Tried my cd17 ki as transport feeding the 8200cd and the sound is not as good ,less detail, separation and sparkle.Was going to wait for the dac , but will the cdq sound better ?
any one else tried the cdq with a separate transport ?

Hi Staffyman, If you count a streaming device as a transport, then yes. I noticed exactly those sound changes you mention. I imagine the improvement using the built-in transport is largely down to the lack of jitter due to it being locked to the DAC clock, which SPDIF is not. The CD and CDQ are the same in this respect afaik. If I remember correctly, the MDAC will have a configurable clock-out interface (not sure about the DQ), so if your transport has a clock-in option you should be able to achieve the same effect. In my case, i went for the simple option and got rid of my CD transport, replacing 2 boxes with the CDQ. Nice and tidy :)

eyebee
07-02-11, 12:35 AM
I've read repeatedly that the sound over the coax or optical inputs is not as good as when playing CD or using the USB input. Problem is, I use a WDTV Live as a streaming device that only has an optical out, and I don't want the SQ of the streamed music (flac) to be so different than CD. Any ideas?

Dawg
07-02-11, 01:32 AM
I've read repeatedly that the sound over the coax or optical inputs is not as good as when playing CD or using the USB input. Problem is, I use a WDTV Live as a streaming device that only has an optical out, and I don't want the SQ of the streamed music (flac) to be so different than CD. Any ideas?

Hi eyebee, its not a problem, people are not saying the inputs are bad just that the transport in the CDQ is better and quite rightly so, ive heard the wdtv and just about any DAC would be an improvement! Infact any half decent CDP would be better than using it as a source, thats why I bought a Squeezebox. Why dont you considder an MDAC or wait for the Q? if you never hear how good the CD side is I am sure you will be very happy. :D

eyebee
07-02-11, 02:01 AM
Hi Dawg, in fact I do use a DAC -a Beresford TC-7510. I'm sure the 8200CD or CDQ will be an improvement on CD playback (I now use an old MF E601 as transport), but, as I mostly play FLAC or vinyl nowadays, I wonder how much improvement I will get over optical compared to the Beresford... Anyone who has tried it will be of great help.

anubisgrau
07-02-11, 02:13 AM
Not yet. Should anyone want to provide the CDQ part of that test I'm available anytime with the Young.


cmon guys, let someone donate a CDQ for this test. i would do it if i would have one.

unless someone's afraid of the score.

technobear
07-02-11, 02:31 AM
Not yet. Should anyone want to provide the CDQ part of that test I'm available anytime with the Young.

Where are you located?

RotelMan
07-02-11, 04:59 AM
Hi

I have a CDQ for demo and is loving it. Using it with RCA to a Holfi power amp.
I have a heavly moddet dacmaigc that playes very good compared to CDQ, but not so "analog".
I have also heard the Young Dac, but that will be more expensive with a good power supply for exapamle teddypardo.
And i need the preamp parts with the headphone amp and the Home Theater mode and ofcause the CD transport for comfort :-)
There is a little hiss from my speakers when playing from SQ Touch and CD but I don't think it's a problem 1½ meter from the speaker.

Problem: When I put a headphone into the CDQ i will get alot of HIZZ/BUZZ from the speakers but without the music... the music is playing in my headphone but the hizz and buzz is relly loud. I have tried with both my headphone BT-250 and B&W P5 (loving this headphone)

Anyone ? Maybe I should try with another RCA cable (Right now using my DIY silver cabel with WBT RCA's)

bottleneck
07-02-11, 05:27 AM
cmon guys, let someone donate a CDQ for this test. i would do it if i would have one.

unless someone's afraid of the score.



Please people see my rega/audiolab/young thread.

M4 corridor a/b/c comparison day.

If you own cdq or a rega dac or a young DAC and live near M4 corridor please pipe up :)

JW - if you're reading this and you have a demo model we can get for a day, this would be good.

These are the 'hot -new - dacs' - and it would be good to hear how they differ to each other.

sam_cat
07-02-11, 05:51 AM
All being well I might be getting a CDQ this coming weekend.. And I am based just north of Bristol.

Sam

RotelMan
07-02-11, 06:04 AM
OK just changed the RCA cabel between CDQ and the power AMP to a Tara Labs AIR RSC cabel and the problem with hizz and buzz when using the headphone is much better ;-) But I can still hear a differencs in the hizz when I put the headphone jack into the CDQ.

technobear
07-02-11, 06:36 AM
OK just changed the RCA cabel between CDQ and the power AMP to a Tara Labs AIR RSC cabel and the problem with hizz and buzz when using the headphone is much better ;-) But I can still hear a differencs in the hizz when I put the headphone jack into the CDQ.

When you insert the headphone jack, the CDQ disconnects the RCA output using a relay.

The noise you are hearing is either an earth loop or simply noise being picked up by the interconnect and amplified by your power amp.

Clearly the Tara Labs cable has better screening than your home made one :D

sq225917
07-02-11, 08:02 AM
Chris, I'm in Sheffield but i'd travel anywhere North of London for a decent bake off. I work from home so am flexible.

TimR
07-02-11, 12:21 PM
thats why I bought a Squeezebox.
Talking of the squeezebox, I see over on the slimdevices forum today that John Swenson believes he has cracked the async usb pops/ticks issue. I will try it out later today and report back.