View Full Version : NAP 250 and speaker cables


gandalph
25-09-12, 09:20 AM
Hi everyone,

First post here. As the title implies, I was wondering if any NAP 250 users here are, or have been, succesfully using other than NAC A5 speaker cables. What brands, model, etc.. would you recommend and why?

Thanks for your input.

Bob McC
25-09-12, 09:45 AM
NAC A4
Linn K20
RS multi strand no name as recommended by Naim in the 80s.

uncl_nigel
25-09-12, 10:13 AM
Chord Epic worked very well in my system with the 250

Mike g
25-09-12, 10:18 AM
Mogami - different types and thicknesses. It's what I use with my naim(ish) kit

Colinb
25-09-12, 10:23 AM
Avondale Blacklink. Much thinner and more flexible. It works in any length and when I changed from NACA5 I preferred it.

Cesare
25-09-12, 10:58 AM
I used flatline stuff to go under a carpet for a number of years and it did the trick - sound came out of the speakers, and no smoke from the amp.

RichardH
25-09-12, 10:59 AM
Avondale Blacklink. Much thinner and more flexible. It works in any length and when I changed from NACA5 I preferred it.

What he said.

doctorf
25-09-12, 11:09 AM
What he said.

What he said.

PerF
25-09-12, 11:23 AM
Hi everyone,

First post here. As the title implies, I was wondering if any NAP 250 users here are, or have been, succesfully using other than NAC A5 speaker cables. What brands, model, etc.. would you recommend and why?

Thanks for your input.

Chord Odyssey/Epic are great alternatives, they give and take a bit from the original A5, some prefer the mother some the daughter so go and try them, a good long lenght is usually to prefer as the amp seem to like the load.

oh and if its an old nap 250 definately consider a recap

Robert M
25-09-12, 11:39 AM
Nordost flatline gold.

PerF
25-09-12, 11:45 AM
Not what he said

gandalph
25-09-12, 11:58 AM
Thank you all for your input.

Perf, the amp I got (yesterday) is second hand and is almost 3 years old. So the recap is not for a few years yet. The object of my quest was to know if, and how much, merit I should give to Naim's warnings and some dealer's scare tactics to the effect that this may cause the amp to blow-up and that the warranty would be void. Apparently, this has been the dealer's experience in this case with my particular brand of cables. So he claims...

Presently I use Transparent Audio Laboratory's MusicWave speaker cable and can't really complain about anything. Then again, I haven't compared it to anything else, so I wouldn't know what I'm missing, if anything. Since all this is relatively new, or recent, I was a bit worried for the long term effect.

Dave J
25-09-12, 12:19 PM
Don't know anything about your cables but I have owned a CB 250 and a 250.2 (which is what you have) and the 250.2 is far less fussy about cables. I can recommend Chord Epic and Sarum or Telerium from experience, either of them I found vastly preferable to Naca5, which, to my ears, is crude and lacking.

PerF
25-09-12, 12:24 PM
Worth mention the Sarum and Tellurium is mega money, Odyssey is much closer priced to A5 which I agree is somehow lacking

Purchased a 250 way back, it was used several years with strange cabling and resulted in a break down and repair, its was the original 250 not mk2 which another amp alltogether, I wouldn't use your Transparent cable but what recommended by maker only, why make risk for such an expensive amp ?

Gaius
25-09-12, 12:39 PM
Gutwire Basic2, Chord Odyssey, Tellurium Q Black, Nordost White Lightning.

I have used them in various Naim amp set ups, Naca 5 is not a bad cable but it really is a pig to use and the others sound better across the board.

1000RPM
25-09-12, 01:14 PM
Hi everyone,

First post here. As the title implies, I was wondering if any NAP 250 users here are, or have been, succesfully using other than NAC A5 speaker cables. What brands, model, etc.. would you recommend and why?

Thanks for your input.

On my NAP250 the best cable I ever heard was NVA LS5 - all the speed and detail of NACA5, with more richness and body. A truly wonderful match.

A Flashback Premier Performance din-xlr interconnect offered exceptionaly neutrality on the input side.

gandalph
25-09-12, 01:46 PM
Since Chord seems to be one of the most often mentioned cable recommended, I'll look into it. I'm having a bit of hard time with their website, so I'll try to find a local dealer and get some loaners to experiment. Not too sure what you mean by A5 lacking. I found them brutal and unmanageable.

Thank you all.

jayson0328
25-09-12, 03:14 PM
Tellurium Q black

linntroika
25-09-12, 04:00 PM
Mogami - first heard it at Tomtom this year - Fab stuff - best ive ever used with my 250 (Naim + linn previously)

backwell
26-09-12, 02:16 AM
I used multi strand shielded cable I got from Les at Avondale on my old 250. It worked just as well as the NAC A5 . I used it in 4.5 metre lengths.

Bob McC
26-09-12, 02:24 AM
Thank you all for your input.

Perf, the amp I got (yesterday) is second hand and is almost 3 years old. So the recap is not for a few years yet. The object of my quest was to know if, and how much, merit I should give to Naim's warnings and some dealer's scare tactics to the effect that this may cause the amp to blow-up and that the warranty would be void. Apparently, this has been the dealer's experience in this case with my particular brand of cables. So he claims...

Presently I use Transparent Audio Laboratory's MusicWave speaker cable and can't really complain about anything. Then again, I haven't compared it to anything else, so I wouldn't know what I'm missing, if anything. Since all this is relatively new, or recent, I was a bit worried for the long term effect.

I'd follow the manufacturer's advice if I were you.

Dave J
26-09-12, 02:32 AM
Since Chord seems to be one of the most often mentioned cable recommended, I'll look into it. I'm having a bit of hard time with their website, so I'll try to find a local dealer and get some loaners to experiment. Not too sure what you mean by A5 lacking. I found them brutal and unmanageable.

Thank you all.

Your description is very good; by lacking - lacking in detail, a sense of realism, space, top to bottom cohesion - lots of things. Existing users possibly won't notice but when you try something else that's better, it becomes immediately obvious. Persist with Chord , I've had direct dealings with them on a number of occasions and they're extraordinarily helpful. Alternatively just contact one of their dealers, as most have demo stock. If you get stuck, please pm me and I'll put you in touch with someone who can help.

Cheers
Dave

Dave J
26-09-12, 02:41 AM
I'd follow the manufacturer's advice if I were you.

Scare mongering Bob?

MJS
26-09-12, 03:25 AM
Don't know anything about your cables but I have owned a CB 250 and a 250.2 (which is what you have) and the 250.2 is far less fussy about cables. I can recommend Chord Epic and Sarum or Telerium from experience, either of them I found vastly preferable to Naca5, which, to my ears, is crude and lacking.

250.2 is as fussy (electrically) as the older 250 so you should still be using low capacitance cable of the correct length.

Robert
26-09-12, 06:31 AM
You can safely use anything of convention parallel construction.
That means standard figure 8 type and spaced conductor 'dumbbell' types.

Avoid anything plaited, twisted, flat parallel, or spiralled.

Basically, if it looks like QED 79 strand or NACA5 it's safe

JemHayward
26-09-12, 06:52 AM
I changed from NAC A5 to Atlas Hyper 2.0 as I needed to route through a wall and the Atlas was easier to fit. I was aiming for convenience rather than performance, but the quite obvious increase in clarity, detail and bass surprised me (but not my dealer). My NAC A5 was quite old though, if that matters.

Dave J
26-09-12, 08:41 AM
250.2 is as fussy (electrically) as the older 250 so you should still be using low capacitance cable of the correct length.

ISTR that Naim expressed the view that the newer series was much more tolerant of other cables than earlier cb and olive versions. Certainly that's what I've found and have used all of them. In any case I don't think that "any" cable is being advocated, merely those that have been found to work.

bob atherton
26-09-12, 08:56 AM
What is the cost of the Avondale Black Link? I looked at their web site and it doesn't say.

rexel
26-09-12, 09:27 AM
Hi Bob the prices seems to be under the orders button.

Colinb
26-09-12, 09:33 AM
Starts at £79 f0r a 2m terminated pair.
http://avondaleaudio.com/store/#ecwid:category=464257&mode=product&product=1623955

Norman Green
26-09-12, 11:56 AM
With the 250 I’d personally stick with the excellent well–balanced Naim cable – a bit obvious really (system synergy) - or the Linn mentioned.

Other makes probably do ‘other hifi things’ but may lose out on basics like timing.

Lose the timing and you’ve lost the music.
Just my view.

Bob McC
26-09-12, 12:10 PM
You can safely use anything of convention parallel construction.
That means standard figure 8 type and spaced conductor 'dumbbell' types.

Avoid anything plaited, twisted, flat parallel, or spiralled.

Basically, if it looks like QED 79 strand or NACA5 it's safe

Twaddle

I have in front of me the Naim manual circa 250/1 era.
I quote

"for best results Naim Audio's own speaker cable should be used...Alternatively use two conductors of 4 sq mm single core multistrand wire (RS type 360-396) lightly twisted together, about 4 turns per metre...

Nowt wrong with multistrand twisted.

Robert
26-09-12, 03:33 PM
Twaddle

I have in front of me the Naim manual circa 250/1 era.
I quote

"for best results Naim Audio's own speaker cable should be used...Alternatively use two conductors of 4 sq mm single core multistrand wire (RS type 360-396) lightly twisted together, about 4 turns per metre...

Nowt wrong with multistrand twisted.

Of course it isn't twaddle - 4 twists per meter is bugger-all electrically and a very rare construction for a bought loudspeaker cable. That level of twisting simply stops the wires flapping around and the advice was given to those buying single conductors to DIY their own cable - back in the stone age.

I'm giving general advice for today, and generally people should avoid twisted cables because there are usually far more than 4 turns per meter.

Cesare
26-09-12, 10:54 PM
Robert,

Can you explain to me why twisting the cables will make any electrical difference to a cable? Loops, of course make a difference, but twists?

Paul R
27-09-12, 01:15 AM
Twisting in the common construction pulls the conductors closely and uniformly together which reduces inductance and increases capacitance compared to just running them near each other. This is desirable if you want a consistent and predictable characteristic.

Otherwise the twisting makes no difference. IMO.

Paul

MJS
27-09-12, 01:16 AM
re: twists
if you twist any pair of wires (or wool or cotton fibres for example) together their length will reduce. Therefore you will need a longer pair to begin with for the same final length. While twisting you're keeping them in very close physical contact for a long length. Two electrical conductors separated by an insulator is a rudimentary capacitor. The longer the length the bigger the capacitance of this cable. Separating the conductors like the dumb-bell construction of e.g. NACA5 reduces hugely the capacitance of the cable. Similarly only lightly twisting them together should achieve the same effect.

Mark.

Robert
27-09-12, 01:33 AM
Robert,

Can you explain to me why twisting the cables will make any electrical difference to a cable? Loops, of course make a difference, but twists?

Much as Mark has explained.

I'm really talking about tightly twisted cable.
Lightly twisting two conductors as in the advice given by Naim for the old RS 56 strand gives you something little different electrically to standard Fig 8, it just keeps two individual conductors uniform and is neater.

To remove geometry concerns just stay with dumbbell (preferably) or traditional F8.

JemHayward
27-09-12, 01:53 AM
I always wondered (though not enough to actually try it...) what the effect would be of routing the two conductors different ways around the room, so that they were a long way apart. This would make the capacitance essentially zero, and the inductance too (I think - I have much more difficulty getting my head around inductance!). Not sure if this is good or bad, but sure will upset the wife, who doesn't like wires.

Paul R
27-09-12, 03:43 AM
That would increase the inductance/minimise the capacitance. If you coiled each conductor a bit on its way the inductance would rise further, as long as the out and back are separated.

You could always just add an actual inductor...

Paul

MJS
27-09-12, 06:25 AM
You could always just add an actual inductor...

Paul

Easily done. Les's NCC200 boards have these where Naim's don't and guess which one is unconditionally stable?

Cloth Ears
27-09-12, 12:51 PM
2 x 7Mtr Sonic Link bi wire worked just fine with my large transmission line speakers

Cloth Ears
27-09-12, 10:10 PM
Running two wires around the room on different routes would be a great way to pick up undesirable RF interference that could find its way back into the amp. In this respect (very) twisted pair cable is used where common mode rejection is desirable above increased capacitance. Some speaker cables feature this as part of their design - the opposite of NacA5

Paul R
28-09-12, 12:19 AM
Easily done. Les's NCC200 boards have these where Naim's don't and guess which one is unconditionally stable?
They also have reduced open loop gain.

In this respect (very) twisted pair cable is used where common mode rejection is desirable above increased capacitance.
You're going to have to explain this in terms of a power amp output.

Paul