What's the difference? :confused:

A few things come to mind:
- Very similar size and appearance, and I believe use mostly the same drivers
- The Kaber is a 3 way, the Keilidh is a 2 way with 3 drivers
- The Kaber was twice the cost when new
- The kaber came with the ku-stone base as standard on all but the first few, it was optional on the Keilidh
- In sound, the Kaber is more controlled and more natural sounding. Possibly not as "fun" as the Keilidh. From a system synergy perspective, I'd expect the Keilidh to be more appropriate for cheaper systems, and vice versa. The Kaber is very revealing of issues up the audio chain and is not particularly easy to drive.

Overall, the Kaber is definitely a better speaker, and s/h can be bought for reasonable costs.

My Keilidh's were bought ex-dem and came with the ku-stone stands. I understand the bit about the Keilidh being 2 way and the Kaber 2.5 way, there was a thread about this recently. So the Kaber will have a different crossover.

However, all this doesn't seem to justify the Keilidh's original cost of £1000 and the Kaber costing £2000. Or is this just another example of Linn squeezing as much wonga out of the customer as possible?

the keilidh was a development of the linn index (same drivers)

where the kaber was a completely new design with new cast basket drivers.

huge difference in quality.

Right - I traded up to Keilidhs from Index 2s, and they do sound very similar apart from the bass.

Would a Naim 180 have trouble driving Kabers, or is a 250 a minimum?

When I first had my kabers, I was using a Nait 5, so yes the 180 will power them.
Having said that, my kabers are much more comfortable sat on the back end of a 200 now.

The Keilidhs and the Kabers in terms of performance are poles apart.

The Keilidhs have a 'sloppy bass' and 'harsh, even painful' treble - in fact I would go further to say that the Keilidhs are the worst speaker linn have ever produced.

Kabers need power to achieve ultimate power but in terms of cost effectiveness, probably Linn's best ever speaker! The Kabers are smooth, controlled and full of music and the treble is improved with the 'low cost' addition of Ninka/Espek tweeters!

I had Kabers for a number of years and have had numerous versions of the Keilidhs in which I thought were all terrible, they sit at just less than 'ear height' when the listener is sat on a standard height sofa and the music reverberates around your feet - simply horrible!

Sorry to all the Keilidh owners but not impressed at all - steer clear!

Mulhiem--

Have you ever heard the Keosa? A screamingly cheap version of the Keilidh--dreadful! I'd rather have PSB Alphas. . . at least they were proud to be cheap!

And yes, the Kaber is an infinitely better speaker than the Keilidh--much better drivers, much better cabinetry, a much more sophisticated (passive) crossover . . .

Best,

Bob

I borrowed Kabers from a ex neighbour (come back Keith).
I drove them for the 6 weeks,i borrowed them for,with a 200.
I felt it was doing the job,but only just.

I now own kabers,and feel that the music flows better,with a 250-2.Just has that extra grip and bite required.
Just my view.
Plus they look nice.

Mark.

The Keilidhs have a 'sloppy bass' and 'harsh, even painful' treble - in fact I would go further to say that the Keilidhs are the worst speaker linn have ever produced.

Sorry to all the Keilidh owners but not impressed at all - steer clear!


Well, I'm not in the least offended, but as there are 2 pairs of Keilidhs in the family, and one of those pairs was my main pair of speakers and in regular use for 5 years, I'm perhaps not surprisingly going to disagree!

One of the key things I look for in speakers is sweet, extended treble, and tuneful bass. The Keilidhs manage both of these, the treble being one of the finest of any speaker I've ever heard. I've no idea how you were managing to get harsh treble out of them, but if they sounded as bad as you say, it's quite an achievement!

The one thing key to them though is that they are evilly (is that a word?) current hungry especially when playing bass-heavy material at volume. An Arcam Delta 90.2 (75W/ch) fell apart playing at anything other than background levels: it wasn't happy at all and got very hot and bothered. Even so, the sound just became a progressivly more muddled and less controlled - certainly never harsh. The little Linn Majik (33W/ch) works well though, and with a Klout in charge, they can really shift some air.

Not heard the Kabers in a familiar environment, but ears that I trust suggest that they're just as nasty a load, but if fed from a suitable amp, produce an even better sound.

There you go - a nice contrasting POV!

Toby

As a postscript - I replaced my Keilidhs with Shahinian Obelisks, which despite their reputation in some quarters for being an amplifier-busting load, seem a lot kinder to the amp than the Keilidhs ever were.

One of the key things I look for in speakers is sweet, extended treble, and tuneful bass. The Keilidhs manage both of these, the treble being one of the finest of any speaker I've ever heard. I've no idea how you were managing to get harsh treble out of them, but if they sounded as bad as you say, it's quite an achievement!

Me too, though maybe the finest treble ever heard is stretching it a bit to far!

I don’t like hard bright treble and one of the things that I like about the Kelidh’s is that they have a sweet, musical sound. My main impression being that never has a speaker been more aptly named, they just make me forget about Hi-Fi and enjoy the music and party along! I have even heard them referred to as ‘Kuddly Keilidhs’ :D

My pair started off as passive’s and were v. good and enjoyable but now that they are running in bi-active mode they really sing along!

Thats not to say that the Kabers are not better speakers they go deeper, faster and are more articulate and I’m interested in upgrading to a pair, especially if they can boogie like my Keilidh’s!

I would have said that Linn’s worst speaker ever was the Nexus.....Ugh! :(

Me too, though maybe the finest treble ever heard is stretching it a bit to far!

Poetic license ;)

Seriously though, I totally agree with you that they're great speakers for enjoying music on, with the sole proviso that the driving amplifier can cope with the load. It took me ages to find something with the same levels of refinement which I enjoyed even more. If someone passed a law banning all Shahinians, it wouldn't be a huge hardship to go back.

Toby

[QUOTE=Grenadier_45]treble being one of the finest of any speaker I've ever heard.

QUOTE]

Crikey, u need to listen to more equipment matey! ;-)

I have a pair of Linn 5110's and an old battered pair of Tukans which I originally bought for rears in a proposed, but never completed, surround system that sound much more capable than Keilidhs.

Each to their own and that but I felt that in all the years I had numerous sets of Keilidhs, I thought that they were simply hideous!

If you thought they were so hideous, why did you have numerous sets ?

Like Toby & Fozz, I lived happily with mine for many years. With hindsight, their biggest failing was a lack of scale - perhaps this is what the reviewers of the time meant by "shut-in" ?

Paul

If you thought they were so hideous, why did you have numerous sets ?

Like Toby & Fozz, I lived happily with mine for many years. With hindsight, their biggest failing was a lack of scale - perhaps this is what the reviewers of the time meant by "shut-in" ?

Paul

I nearly bought a pair. Spent all morning listening to them in a certain dealership not a million miles away from Gaskell Street, Stockton Heath, Cheshire. They are fun and they definitely boogie, in a kind of "Was that thud a bass drum or bass guitar? sort of a way. I also think they look really nice. However, to me they sound shut in in the sense that they have a prominent bass, recessed mid and rather tinkly treble. When I got home and started listening to my Rogers, I was reminded of why I can put up with weakish bass and refined treble. It's the mid range that delivers all that emotion in vocals, guitars etc.

Sold/traded several pairs whilst working for Audio Ex, but still wouldn't swap my Rogers for 'em. I suppose it's a case of (with apologies to any females looking in) "I could have fun with her, but I wouldn't want to live with her"

I've heard Kabers twice. Once in a dealers, when they sounded ok...ish, but very hi-fi, and a second time in a neighbour's set up, driven Aktively by 3x LK 280's with Sparks. They sounded, frankly, crap. Thudding indistinct bass and .err not much else.. Maybe a set up problem, but it put me off a bit.

Mull

Mull--

If Kabers had "thudding indistinct bass" there was something SERIOUSLY wrong! The Kabers are usually accused of not having enough bass--rather like SBLs.

And I stand by my opinion that the Keosa is the worst Linn speaker ever--much worse than the Nexus, which at least had its plus points--lots of bass and a cuddly, very listenable sound.

Best,

Bob

If you thought they were so hideous, why did you have numerous sets ?



Paul


For many years I used to run a second hand hifi business and collated stock from numerous dealers around the country (especially over the summer months when they were skint and I had money to take the piss and get stock under financial duress!).

The worst Linn speaker I ever heard was a very, very early production model of the Index Mk 1. I have an idea that Linn were actually trying these out at certain dealers to see if they were acceptable at all.

The treble was just UNBELIEVEABLE :o :o :o :o :o :o I'd brought along a copy of Grace Jones' first LP and was playing 'Walking in the rain'. There's a guitar chord in the middle, that should clang a bit, but this jumped out with an axe and cleaved your head in two!

I was there with four mates from Uni and we all physically recoiled - and that's disco-hardened students.

The sad thing was that everything else was great. They did bring out a revised pair later, and I even bought them, but that early pair were something else.

2MB

I've lived happily with the Keilidhs for a few years now and the treble certainly isn't harsh and bass is very tuneful.

Going active with them makes a huge difference to the performance of them especially in the bass. However, the Kabers are better speakers, as they should be for the extra cost.

The Keosa, imo, were dire and taught Linn a lesson not to try competing with the budget speaker market. As far as I am aware these were made in China and not in Scotland and, I think, have been dropped from the line up now ?????

Mull--

If Kabers had "thudding indistinct bass" there was something SERIOUSLY wrong! The Kabers are usually accused of not having enough bass--rather like SBLs.

And I stand by my opinion that the Keosa is the worst Linn speaker ever--much worse than the Nexus, which at least had its plus points--lots of bass and a cuddly, very listenable sound.

Best,

Bob
Certainly agree on the Keosa. Not worthy of Linn. On the Kabers? I heard what I heard... twice ;)
Mull

I just bought a an active Kaber system (LP12, Kairn, 3 LK 100´s) After dealer installation and speaker positioning some weeks went by and it sounded good but the bass .... puh!!! On some bass heavy records (any reggae album for instance) the whole building became vibrant!!!! Poor neighbours .... "Thudding indistinct bass" to say the least. The Kabers where placed near wall (heavy brick wall) as commonly recommended with these speakers. So, last night I got fed up with it and placed the Kabers at half a meter out from the wall and even toed them in slightly and wow – bass ois now much more snappy and quick. But most of all - midrange came through like never before. So, don´t take it for granted that Kabers always should be right up against the wall.

Clearly – speaker positioning has more to do with room acoustics than with the speakers themselves!

Cheers, Lake

Right - I traded up to Keilidhs from Index 2s, and they do sound very similar apart from the bass.

Would a Naim 180 have trouble driving Kabers, or is a 250 a minimum?

My Avondale NAP 140 drives my Kabers beautifully and they sound fantastic. I have been considering swapping around the Kabers with my SBLs in my first system to compare the two. Many say that Kabers give SBLs a serious run for their money!

Avtiv Kabers have electronically boosted bass. Quite a different animal from the passive version.

James

My passive ones have an absolutely thunderous bass response. Very powerful indeed (and in a 20' x 18' room with a very high ceiling!)

the keilidh was a development of the linn index (same drivers)
Oh, shit! That's put me off them, then.

The Keilidhs have a 'sloppy bass' and 'harsh, even painful' treble - in fact I would go further to say that the Keilidhs are the worst speaker linn have ever produced.
Bloody 'ell!

Oh, shit! That's put me off them, then.
No! Don't be put off. The bass is powerful yet beautifully tight and generates real presence. It's an asset not a flaw!
I have also driven them with Linn amplification too and when this was replaced with Naim kit they sounded considerably more musical and dynamic. A massive improvement! Stodgy old Linn amplification! Kabers deserve better!!! (I'm sure that may provoke a response!)

Scott,

What Linn amps were you using with them?

Stephen

Scott,

What Linn amps were you using with them?

Stephen

Kairn preamp and 2 x LK140 poweramps.

Kairn preamp and 2 x LK140 poweramps.

Scott,

Cheers. I'm currently using a NAP250 with mine, but am looking to try a Klout(or Klouts). Pre is a Kairn.

Have you tried any other Linn amps with them?

Stephen

Stephen
I have an Avondale 250 in my main system driving SBLs and its performance is remarkable. I would simply upgrade your pre to a NAC 82 or 52 (either with a supercap) if you are feeling flush! I have found that the Kabers really respond to the rythmic dynamism of Naim amplification. Its hugely more exciting than Linn's amp sound. The Kabers solidity seems to be a fine partner for Naim's pacy timing and ability to extract detail.
Scott

Interesting..... my Kairn replaced an 82/2Hi a couple of weeks ago! Hence the desire to try out Klouts.

I run Kabers (partially updated early ones which I bought from a kind gentleman on this forum many moons ago, 3-4 years now perhaps) and they are the only speaker I've ever been truly happy with - hence I still have them.

I also run them 1/2 metre from the wall and toed in. I tried the Ninka tweeter mod in them and didn't like it. Somehow it managed to remove the snap from the speakers and although tame, the HF became almost a seperate entity and they lost their flow and groove. I have changed the original Hyqophon unit though for I think the /02 or /03 type which came from a pair of Tukans. I also changed the cross over (as per the sevice manual) to drop the treble level slightly in line with the updated tweeter.

I've had Keilidhs, much later 68k serial no I believe from memory, and although pleasant and bouncy (the most important thing for me) they didn't hold a candle to the Kabers for control, information retreival etc. and just seemed to create a pool of "nice" sound rather then being captvating or ultimately that interesting. Unfortunately I got rid of them before I bought my current amp which would no doubt have helped.

Speaking of which, my Kabers are passive and are run from a Densen Beat B100 - which does so without distress. Following on from the Arcan Delta 75.2 user, I've had an Arcam Alpha 10, which though capable enough, also got rather warm running Keilidhs and the Kabers. Did an accpetable enough job though but not really the amplifier for showing off the strengths of the Kabers in particular.

I've never heard either Keildih or Kabers run actively, although owners of active Kabers have heard my system run by the Densen and been impressed - or so they said.

Nice to be back, haven't dropped in here for ages according to my login....

Cheers

i sold my keilidhs and went back to a pair of mk11 kans, in my opinion an improvement. ok less "bass" actually no. more tunefull tighter bass, less 1 note "muddy" bass. i dont think 2 small bass drivers working in tandem, well works! that well.. really nice idea, probably implemented better in the kaber..

I've come to the conclusion that my Keilidhs were designed as active speakers and then had a crossover shoved in as an afterthought :rolleyes: The crossover components are rubbish according to Les.

hes probably right, active is probably the way to go with them. i have to say out of all the floorstanders i ever owned, keilidhs were the most "stable" when set up. the polymer bases are excellant and essential. a breeze to level as well, seen as you can adjust them once they are in position, from the top.

I owned a pair of Keilidh's many moons ago and have fond memories of them! :rolleyes:

The visual design when using the Ku-stone bases (along with kabers/keltiks) was unique and quite stiking... I'd agree with other members here that although the Keilidhs boogie, the Kabers are in a different class! :cool:

Left all that behind now and joined the ProAc club! ;)

The problem with all speakers is that it's quite easy to make a good small speaker, but very difficult to make a good "big-un"

The only good large boxes i've ever heard are from companies such as ATC,Tannoy and B+W all the rest are also rans,all imho of course!

re the Ninka tweeter

How long did you run this for? reason I ask is that in my experience they take forever to run in, and the "disconnected" sound you refer to is annoying, but does disappear after a few weeks. This is with my Kan 1's. I have heard others mention the same thing, the integration sucks at first, but when they run in everything gels.

I have both the Ks and can confirm that the big Ks are a lot better at full range music than the small ks

DS

Erm, I don't get the negative reviews the Keilidhs get from some in this thread. I've had both Tannoy, Rega, Royd, Linn Tukan and now Linn Keilidh with Kustone and the latest tweeter version. I've never been more happy with a set of speakers. Their closed bx construction makes the bass tight and fast and the treble is just perfect. They're very musical, fast and an easy listen provided they have a serious amp feeding them. I started out driving them with a Majik/LK85 combo and it stood no chance of controlling them. I now use an Electrocompaniet ECI-2 60w Class A integrated and the K's just sing. Contrary to some opinions I feel the K's can fit into a rather high quality setup and still be very enjoyable.

Just my 5 cents

/Mirland

re the Ninka tweeter

How long did you run this for? reason I ask is that in my experience they take forever to run in, and the "disconnected" sound you refer to is annoying, but does disappear after a few weeks. This is with my Kan 1's. I have heard others mention the same thing, the integration sucks at first, but when they run in everything gels.

Good point, I may not have given them long enough. I did leave them playing over the weekend and all week over night (they were at my offices with no neighbours at the time), so they probably had 100 or so hours. They did change in this time but somehow they never seemed to get near the same level of "bounce" in the speakers for me; I mean the ability to captivate the attention, which came back immediately with the /02s slotted back in. I don't consider myself a proper flat earther, but I couldn't live with the way it seemed to detract from the "groove". There is an agument that I just gravitated towards the more familiar sound but while different, more civilised and better resolved, it seemed to detract in the areas most important to me, rightly or wrongly. My system my have played a part too of course, I tried them with an Arcam Alpha 10, Audiolab 8000LX and Pioneer A400 because that was all I had at the time.

I don't think I berated the Keilidhs too much (I hope). To be fair they are a bit chalk and cheese. The Kaber I think is a very capable, transparent, high information design with proper bass extension and a warts and all presentation, whereas the Keilidh is a warmer, smoother poposition with more of the rough edges removed. I ran my Keilidhs for 3-4 months and they were a lot easier to partner with amps to create a very repespectible sound than the Kabers. Horses for courses if you'll excuse the cliche, both have their place, and I never had the chance to try the Keilidh with an amplifier like the Denson Beat B100 for instance (although I did with a Nait 3 but I don't want to get drawn into that!!). Adding the Keilidhs to systems often made the whole better than I had a right to expect, whereas the Kabers could tear them apart. Correctly partnered though, the Kabers can shine more brightly in my opinion.

Cheers

I have a late pair of Kelidhs in Cherry with the ku-stone bases and I am running them with a NAP140 in passive mode. They sound pretty good to me, look good as well. Bass is plentiful and tuneful. I was using Castle Severn 2's before, admittedly with a NAP90 and in comparisson the bass was very "one-note" I've tried them with the NAP140 and they don't come close to the Kelidhs.
I want to bi-amp, probably using the NAP90 for the treble to start with, but one of the things which puts me off this route is having to use yet another run of NACA5 to each speaker, it's so difficult to hide. I have considered one of Les's suggested mods to the NAPs to enable the use of non Naim and therefore smaller, cable. Does anyone have any experience of this?

Mike

Hmm, I gave up using NACA5 (I think its a grotesquely designet cable) when I ran a pair of Royd Saphires with an old Nait. Instead I used Black Rhodium S130. Super flexible and easy to hide. But today I wouldn't consider anything else than my current Van den Hul The Clearwater. It's cheap, easy to hide and very capable.

/Mirland

About 20 years ago i used a 62/3-aps/140 from Les,the 3-aps was a three channel power-supply,these gave sterling service and sounded great.

The other advantage is your not restricted to one cable,Les's Black link is great and very slim in design and the bonus is it's quite cheap and sounds fantastic,it's hard to believe bass of that quantity and quality can come from such a slim cable!

Regards

Steve

worth trying the 140 on the tweeters and the 90 on the bass. fairly quick to swap over, and would be an interesting a/b comparison. if i remember correctly i think linn recommended this with their own amps.

bump

I found that Keilidhs can sound great but only if your electronics are up to it.

The best sound I had out of them was biamping with 2 x 250's. The sound was smooth yet exciting. The amps really do need to be able to deliver grip to the Keilidhs bass. Then it becomes tuneful and articulate. Les's 260z also sounds great with the Keilidhs.

Whatever you do please bin the cheap jumpers to the speaker terminals. I found that biwiring or going to the "F" connection significantly improves the speakers trebble performance.

For the price, a well set up and suitably driven Keilidh will produce great sounds.

Regards

I would agree wholeheartedly with Chris. Naim amplification (especially the 250) has real authority yet is still able to produce "sparkle" and dynamism. I would also say (having owned both Keildhs and Kabers) that the latter are profoundly more musical, solid and inspiring. Perhaps a change of speakers is required too!