Hello

I am interested in the Tron Syren. There is little out there to read on this preamp with built in phono. I have spoke at length with Jeff at Highwater Sound in NY, but he has a personal bias and opinion :confused: . I am planning a trip to hear it :) , but untill then, I was wondering if anyone hear has heard it at length.

Paul

Paul,

Where are you located? Jeff is a very good friend of mine and will take good care of you.

Evan

Paul, if you call 'GT Audio' in the UK you will speak to the guy that makes them!

His name is Graham Tricker. GT Audio is the UK importer for brands like Lindemann, Platine, and others. He runs GT Audio aswell as Tron.

I've met him a few times, and he did some repair work for me on my old valve amp.

http://www.gtaudio.com/

Its hardly going to get you independant advice, but Im sure he'd answer your questions!

Ive heard some of his best stuff, and its pretty no-holes-barred good. But, I havent compared it to other top of the line kit at the same sitting, so can't offer any kind of reasonable information on it.

Cheers
Chris

Hello Evan

I am located in Canada near the Detroit/Windsor Ontario border. I may be taking a trip to hear it at his place. Jeff and I have spoken a few times and he really sounds like a super guy. Are you located in NY.

Paul

Dear Chris

Thanks for the info even though I have been to his web page a few times. I figured I should try posting something here since most of the fellows how post here are UK based and perhaps have had a personal demo of the Syren.
There is a reveiw on 6moons, but you always have to take that stuff with a grain of salt if you know what I mean.

Paul

hi

I have heard the Meteor pre-amp with built in phono, and Grahams own personal phono stage which is 4 boxes all the size of a power amp - too expensive to run to production he says. It sounded great of course.

I wouldnt believe the hype (per se), Im sure its very good but if I was spending that sort of money I'd want to A/B against a Manley Steelhead and a Shindo phono stage at the very least.

I heard the Syren a couple of years ago, driving a Tron power amp into horns (Beauhorns IIRC, but they may have been Avantguardes). Beautiful build quality, but the system sounded pretty bad. I think that was entirely down to the speakers, which had all the stereotypical honkiness of horns but without any of the good qualities. So, impossible to judge the electronics. Very expensive, though, I remember.

-- Ian

hi

I have heard the Meteor pre-amp with built in phono, and Grahams own personal phono stage which is 4 boxes all the size of a power amp - too expensive to run to production he says. It sounded great of course.

I wouldnt believe the hype (per se), Im sure its very good but if I was spending that sort of money I'd want to A/B against a Manley Steelhead and a Shindo phono stage at the very least.

Hi Bottleneck

I am not interested in the Steelhead as I have heard it in a system similar to mine, and did not like the results. The owner of the Steelhead has since gone to a Aesthetix IO Sig with much better results.

I would like to try the Shindo line.

Paul

Which I can recommend highly. I'v been using a Shindo Monbrison for the past six or seven years IIRC. Trouble-free, sounds great.

Hi Markus

Does the Shindo line have a built in stepup tranny for MC in the phonostage, if not what have you been using with it.

Paul

Paul,

I live in NJ. I've known Jeff for 10 years or so. I'm also interested in the Syren.

Evan

Does the Shindo line have a built in stepup tranny for MC in the phonostage,

Hi Paul,

yes.

Markus,

have you heard better than the Shindo? If so what and why?

Hello Markus

What more can you tell us about your Shindo.
What other tubes preamps have you compared it to.

Any problems with impedance matching with amps?

Cheers,
Paul

Paul,

You'll like the Syren a lot! Jeff at Highwater Sound is selling them at a minimal margin over UK price. I have been a customer of Graham Tricker's for over 15 years and have parted with lots of cash over the years (Tron Meteor, Avantgarde Duos, Platine Verdier, Battery PSU, Schroeder Model 2, Allaerts MC1B and originally my Quad II rebuild in 1991) - and I'm very happy. I currently use Graham's Tron Meteor demonstrator, which I bought after he introduced the Syren. The circuits between the Syren and Meteor are very similar and I have also listened to the Syren at Graham's house over several sessions.
Having spoken to Graham, Jeff at Highwater rates the Syren higher than the Kondos (at several times the cost) and he sells both makes!! I am really happy with my Meteor and found it a huge improvement over my previous preamp (Verdier Control B with valve regulated PSU).
If you want to email me for more specific details, drop me a line at topoxforddoc@btinternet.com. If you do order a Syren, either email Graham at sales@gtaudio.com or phone him on +44 1895 833099. He has a worldwide customer base and will always call you back. Let him know your requirements (eg phono cartridge and setup) and he will build you a bespoke Syren. They are all made to order by Graham himself. They aren't subcontracted to some factory in China.
Good Luck

Charlie Chan
Cheltenham UK

merlin, Paul

I rate the Shindo highly enough to have parted with a not inconsiderable amount of cash. But there is any number of top preamps out there that I haven't heard in my system and so can't compare: VTL 7.5, CJ whatever, Naim 552, Burmester 011, the list goes on.

What I can say is this: in several years of use (I lost count, but I think I have been using Shindo since 1994 or so), the only pres that really have excited me have been a couple which cost a whole lot more than my current Monbrison (the 552, for example, is very probably better than my pre), and before I would commit myself to a different route, I would certainly investigate the higher priced alternatives from Shindo (I have once - only once - heard a system which had a Pétrus in it, it was utterly superb). I think Shindo pres are extremely competitive at their price points. They have excellent rhythm and timing, but they also have colour, body and dimensionality. I think they strike a very nice middle ground between round and flat earth values and in fact show that these concepts are largely meaningless.

Hi Markus

Thanks for you insight. I am planning on having a listen to their Vosnee.
A considerable price difference compared to the Monbrison.

But something to think about is a gent that I emailed said he went the Shindo route after hearing a Monbrison in his system. He compared it to his Conrad Johnson ART II.
He now has a Giscours.

He also said they are more popular in Europe and Asia. As we both live in North America, he in Boston and I in Canada it is hard to hear a demo. For me the demo would involve a drive to NY city.

I like the idea of the built in phono to save money on a interconnect and even a better power cord, and shelf space.

Cheers,
Paul

Many thanks for that Markus. I keep meaning to get a home loan of one from emporium but never get round to it.

One thing to keep in mind is that the gain structure in Shindo systems is different from the industry norm: the pres supply quite a lot of output voltage, the gain on the power amps is lower than usual (at least with the input pots at the preferred 11 am to 1 pm position). If your power amp has a high input sensitivity (Quad II, for example), don't use Shindo.

I have just looked at the Shindo website for the first time in ages: I don't have the new version of the Monbrison, I have the previous model.

The new Monbrison has a S/N spec of 119 dB. That's entirely believable, Shindo pres show that valves do not have to mean a noisy system (the power amps are a bit different, there's only so much you can do with a DHT).

Hi Markus

What would you consider a high input impedance. My amp is 41 KOhms shunted by 470pF.

Paul

Shouldn't be a problem, the Shindo pres have output transfromer these days which have a studio-compatible output impedance of 600 ohms.

But note: I was talking about sensitivity, not impedance.

If you're still interested in the Syren, then do call Graham or Jeff. Before Jeff became his US distributor, Graham was happy to offer his amps on a sale or return basis. He didn't get many returns. Why don't you ask for a home demo?
If you ask Graham, he will build you a bespoke pre to suit your cartridge and power amp. He is extremely helpful.

Hello Charlie

I am still interested in the Tron, but the price is gettinginto a region I do not want to get into. I am planning to have a listen at Jeff's place in the new year.
I did contact Graham at Tron via email, and he directed it to Jeff, so I get the impression he wants the distributor to handle all sales no exceptions.
I am trying to learn as much as I can about these two products in the same price point.
Shindo offers different price points either up or down, and I may have a chance to buy a used Monbrison, from a gent in New Jersey if he moves up the Shindo Line.
I am really interested in how the phonosateges in the Tron and Shindo sound.
I know both designers are vinyl guys and share the same ideas on trensformer coupled design. So you get a very quiet performance from tubes which I think should sound nice.

Charlie or Markus please feel free to add anything else you know about these two products.

Paul

HI Markus

Here is the input sensitivity specs: 1.2 Volts RMS ± 2% for 80 Watts into 8, 4, and 2 Ohms for my Lamm ML1 PP tube amp. Is it ok.

The fellow that has the Giscours uses the Lamm ML 2.1 his specs are: 0.775 Volts RMS ± 2% for 18 Watts into 16, 8, and 4 Ohms and reports no problems and he runs five meter interconnects to his amps.

Paul

I decided to order a Syren and received it last month in early October.

I have to say it is fantastic. My listening sessions have been very enjoyable and longer than ever.

The quality of the unit is top notch and musically the best I have owned.

Paul

Dear Paul,

How delighted I am to hear your news. I'm really pleased that you are happy with Graham's products. A lot of people wince at the price, but the TRONs are audio bargains compared to some of the high end stuff that's toted around.

Best wishes,

Charlie

I wondered about Tron products too they have an excellent reputation. I narrowly missed out on one of his older preamps a few months back on e-meither.

I've also lived with a Shindo Monbrison (from japan) with built in Arome phono transformers...not as long as Markus mind only around 2 months. I sold it recently for a lot of euros. I found the quality to be very high indeed, excellent tone, power and speed. The output is BIG however and requires careful matching...its a high quality preamp...we took the lid off to investigate!

I also have on hand the Shindo Aurieges and an older Shindo vintage preamp called the Model 77. The gent who bought the Monbrison listened at length to the Model 77 also...and we found not so big differences driving other Shindo amps and a Berning ZH-270 OTL. If anything the Monbrison had a higher output and the Model 77 was a touch softer.

At this price point there are just so many to go at so i guess it just depends on the rest of the system and your listening tastes.

Glad you're enjoying the Tron!!!

I heard the new version of the Monbrison aswell as the top Shindo preamp in a full Shindo setup. All of it sounded good and I prehaps would be happy with it also.
But after hearing the the Highwater Sound ( Tron importer for North America) setup with Tron I felt it was the direction I was leaning towards more after time had passed. I could have sat at Jeffs place and listened to music all day and night.

I am very happy with the Syren, it has good speed, very quiet and a pleasant midrange fullness. Great dynamics and musical. The phonostage is excellent.