I'm looking to replace my DV17 with something a little more suited to my system.

Deck is a Xerxes/Artemiz and I have a Dino + so the cartridge world is my oyster.

Much as I love the sound of the 17 it is a bit too tight in the bass, I had a DV20XL before that was more meaty and had a lovely full sounding bass end, although the top was a bit veiled at times. I found that although the 17 has tighter bass it's also a little set back in the mix which is not really for me, most of my music is heavily bass led and I need that thumping bass to underpin most of it. I also listen to lots of vocal and acoustic music too so it needs to offer good performace on that too. If I could get a cart with the 20's bass and the 17's mid and treble I'd be happy.

Anyway my shortlist is

DV20XL again
Lyra Dorian
AT33 PTG
Denon something or the other
Ortofon Kontrapunkt series
Shelter 501
and Benz Micro Ace

I have not heard any of them so any experiences would be really welcome. Also any online cheapies that are not on this list are of interest.

Thanks
J

Hi Jools,

I got an ortofon Jubilee to replace my Kontrapunkt via a guy on Ebay from Germany - other people on the forum were also recommending him.

I'm very happy with the cart, especialy at the price I got it, but descriptions are pretty difficult - All I can say is it improved the Kotrapunkt in every way, but I'll leave the detailed 'hi-fi' descriptions to the magazines.

How about a different tack - I have recently replaced my arm (Tabrizzi) with Origin Live, and it has really changed the system, for the better - several commentators feel the arm is the weak part of the Roksan setup, so if your cart aint broke why not arrange to hear an alternative arm - its a rega mount so most arms will easily slot in, so if you have a friendly vinyl dealer nearby it would a relatively simple swop...and then you would know the best option/bang for your buck

The cartridge you need is the Sumiko Blackbird.

Dynavector p75 phonostage - more bass from the 17D2 on Dr.T setting.

Cheers

Jason

in that budget I like the benz glider II.


you can get cheap carts from www.phonophono.de

cheers
chris

Strange, they don't seem cheap at all, everything looks to be pretty much UK retail price.

Don't rush into this:Take your time, try a few cartridges.

Strange, they don't seem cheap at all, everything looks to be pretty much UK retail price.

it really depends on the cartridge.


Ortofon Kontrapunkt A:

UK: £399.99
phonophono: £281.39

Ortofon Kontrapunkt B:

UK: £669.95
phonophono: £449


I used this site to source the UK prices..
http://www.hifistore.co.uk/gen/ortofon.htm

Ah, yes. The Ortofons seem better value.

hiya, yeah... hadnt noticed but it doesnt work with british made cartridges, which makes sense.

I think the cheap continental prices are because you can miss out the british distributors profits.

i have the benz micro ace(in blue, hi-output MC), i can't say how it sounds critically because i never had a proper A-B on the same deck/arm combo. but generally it is a very balanced cartridge, nothing is spectacular in isolation, but just gels together. i briefly swapped it with a koetsu which i've now sold, but the lp12 was tuned-up in between, so not a fair comparison.i think the ACE just/only lacked that Koetsu's magic halo/glow effect! however the benz micro ace didn't blanche at the challenge. it retails around 200-ish pounds here in singapore. it also stood against a pal's ekos/arkiv home setup and didn't come away too badly, the ekos killing my deck in terms of bass drive, being about all there was to it.

i've had various grado platinums before, DV10x4mk2, OEM goldring on a Project deck, DV te kaitora, koetsu urushi, two rega exacts, a DVXX-1L(bought on a used deck and i never listened to it) and so on, now i have the BEnz Micro ACE and a Goldring 1042(which was on sale here for 90-ish pounds new!).

i think DVs sound a tad too smooth(for some people)

I had an old Supex before resurrecting the vinyl collection and getting a Dino with NC PSU,upgrading the TT's PSU as well to a Lingo and then went looking for a new cartridge.

Like you,I've had plenty of good advice from here,and eventually settled on something that was a bit outside my original budget,but I'm very pleased with...a Lyra Argo.

It's turned out to be a superb cartridge,with excellent detail and depth,plus by comparison with the Supex,deep and well defined bass,plus a cleaner,more extended treble.
I'm sure if you had the chance to hear a Dorian or Argo,you'd be impressed....I got mine from Heatherdale Audio....very efficient,and very well priced.

I'm looking to replace my DV17 with something a little more suited to my system.

Did you make the change in the end? What did you go for?

Hc

you could also try here
http://www.music-on-vinyl.de/product.php?productid=47888&cat=0&page=1
not huge choice, but prices look competitive

Hi Wheres Vuk,
I noted in your post re the Benz ACE you mentioned "here in Singapore"

If you are in Singapore, could you let me know where you bought the Benz.

I am looking for a cartridge for my new Raven One/Vivid two tonearm and shortlisted:-
1. Benz for their generous output.
2. Dynavector 17D3 but see on ZeroGain a few unreliability problems with them.
3. Lyra Dorian - it has threaded body for mounting.
4. The Raven manufacturere likes ZYX but can't find them in Singapore.
5. Lots of Denon 103R lovers about but the output is too low for my Phono stage (Cambridge 640p)

Any info greatly appreciated.

AT OC9 MLII, read my review on PFM. £160 delivered from the USA, stunning value!

Don't rush into this:Take your time, try a few cartridges.


Sorry, but where are you going to get "try a few cartridges" these days - come to think of it, I can't ever remember any dealer allowing you to "try" a cartridge.

I think the cheap continental prices are because you can miss out the british distributors profits.

You've got it wrong Chris - the dealer makes far more profit than the distributor. A distributor makes the least in the chain - same as in any form of distribution; cameras, bikes, cars etc

Import an AT33PTG, at the price you will not regret it and in fact may get a very pleasant surprise.If its not as high end as you want, keep it as a spare.
Just wait til you hear it........

Will the AT33PTG work on an LP12/Ittok ok?

Taffyboy

Well, the OC30 (its ancestor?) did with absolutely no problem. The Ittok headshell isn't as cramped as the Akito/Ekos either...

Difficult to explain the difference between the OC9 and 30/33. It's just a greater feeling of authority in the latter, although I doubt the measurements are hugely different.

Difficult to explain the difference between the OC9 and 30/33. It's just a greater feeling of authority in the latter, although I doubt the measurements are hugely different.

With cartridges, small differences in measurements can make a huge difference to the sound! The weight, compliance, and VTF is different with these carts. Channel separation is better with the PTG (0.5 dB vs 1.0dB). 33PTG: DC resistance 17 ohms, inductance 70 μH, output 0.5 mV. OC9: DC resistance 12 ohms, inductance 50 μH, output 0.4 mV.

Just trying one of these - AT33PTG and it is a great cartridge for the money. I have just replaced a Denon 103r which I liked a lot (into Naim boards and a CA 640) but with one small reservation, I like the AT33 a lot more. It seems to have more detail and more depth and generally fits in with my system well BUT it does show surface noise in a way the 103 did not. If surface noise bothers you then the 103 route is still a good path but for a taste of the high end on a ‘budget’ try an AT33.

I nearly forgot, one other gripe, the AT33 has a horrible clear, rigid plastic stylus guard that almost gave me nightmares. The 103 definitely wins on that score with its nice translucent pliable one.

Otherwise a great cartridge that comes highly recommended by quite a few here. I am not sure who I have to thank for this but it was a recommendation on pink fish that put me on to the AT33PTG.

What turntable and arm are you using the AT33PTG on? I have a Denon 103r and would be interested in knowing the differences between the two.

Spacedeck and Spacearm. I have not used this cartridge enough to truly evaluate it yet. I think it is still bedding in but first impressions are extremely favourable.

More detail, much more detail than either the 103 or the 103r. It seems to have a smoother middle, it might be my imagination but I think it is slightly less sibilant than the 103r which was hardly sibilant anyway. Having said that I seem to be very sensitive to sibilance and I can remember reading somewhere that this effect bothers some people more than others.

I think it might be a little bit toned down in the bass department compared to the 103r but it is early days and it’s certainly not a problem.

I know a long time lurker who's a HUGE Denon 103 fan - he may even post here but I don't know his handle..

I understand he's had his collection re-tipped with "proper" profile styli and claims the best of both worlds - the warmth and weight of the original and better tracking and definition through to sides' end.

I dont really want more detail. Each time i have had an improvement in that area, through cartridge or phono stage upgrades i have found that i lose interest in some of my favorite recordings. I tend to listen to a lot of 60s,70s and 80s rock/pop/blues, also some folk. Many of these are either in not great condition or poorly recorded. Each improvement in detail has only highlighted these problems. I do however love the sense of life and vitality that some of these old records have, so that aspect would be high on my list of cartridge improvements. Does the AT33PTG score highly here?

I know a long time lurker who's a HUGE Denon 103 fan - he may even post here but I don't know his handle..

I understand he's had his collection re-tipped with "proper" profile styli and claims the best of both worlds - the warmth and weight of the original and better tracking and definition through to sides' end.

As you have guessed I am not a fan of the Denon 103 in any guise. Its OK for the money but its not a high end cartridge and should not be compared to one. Its a pity that more do not speak about the SPU which is extremely underated IMO. There is more music in one of these than in fifty Denon 103's :)

kontrapunkt B - had 3 of them - if there's anything better for the price would like to know not withstandng it's a question of personal taste of course. Just think the KB is detailed and neutral and dynamic - just sort of does things right.

Its a pity that more do not speak about the SPU which is extremely underated IMO. There is more music in one of these than in fifty Denon 103's :)

50 : 1 is a bit harsh, but I rate the SPU considerably higher than the DL103, too. Very much worth the extra.

As you have guessed I am not a fan of the Denon 103 in any guise. Its OK for the money but its not a high end cartridge and should not be compared to one. Its a pity that more do not speak about the SPU which is extremely underated IMO. There is more music in one of these than in fifty Denon 103's :)

With respect. These days, with records only available used, I'd hesitate to subject them to a SPU with tractor like tracking, no matter how characterful it made things..... I did like the sounds it made though as a mate still has one.

The DL103 needs a version with a modern tip. Since they sell so well (?) I don't know why Denon don't do one (price differences in tip profiles are pennies, not tens of pounds I understand).

With respect. These days, with records only available used, I'd hesitate to subject them to a SPU with tractor like tracking, no matter how characterful it made things..... I did like the sounds it made though as a mate still has one.

The DL103 needs a version with a modern tip. Since they sell so well (?) I don't know why Denon don't do one (price differences in tip profiles are pennies, not tens of pounds I understand).

Why doesn't Denon produce the 103 range with more sophisticated styli and cantilevers as they did in the 80's ? Back then there were three models, the top two having (I seem to remember) Boron cantilevers and Fine Line styli. They were far more sophisticated than the base 103.

looking to replace my DV17 with something a little more suited to my system. Deck is a Xerxes/Artemiz and I have a Dino + so the cartridge world is my oyster. shortlist is

DV20XL again
Lyra Dorian
AT33 PTG
Denon something or the other
Ortofon Kontrapunkt series
Shelter 501
and Benz Micro Ace

J


I had a Shelter 501 for several years...on a Rega 900 arm on a Xerxes X TT. Warm, smooth, well balanced. Not a great tracker on that arm. Ultimately found to be too warm and lacked dynamics (but I was looking for warmth when I purchased that cartridge.)

Then lived with a MusicMaker III (moving magnet) on the Rega 900 arm. I found that combination to be an improvement, but when I replaced the Rega 900 with a Hadcock 242, the improvement was considerable, including better tracking. Compared to the Sheltor, the MusicMaker III had better balance, slightly less warm, perhaps more dynamic. The main thing about the MusicMaker III / Hadcock 242 combination was what they promote...great musicality. This cartridge is very easy to live with. It does not have great dynamics...and it is not incredibly fast. Based on my memory of ancient times, it is musically equivalent to the Grace F9E I used on a Grace 707 in the late 70's. While not using it now, I have kept the MusicMaker III as a backup or to give to my son when he acquires a nice TT.

My audio store was very strong on the Lyra cartridges...in particular the Dorian as a great value for the money. I was ready to sort of "end" the messing around with "good" but not "great" cartridges. So after looking around I landed on a Lyra Skala...Lyra's second cartridge after their Titan.

I love the Skala! It's a dramatic improvement over any cartidge that I have owned and as good as any cartridge I've ever heard. It has tremendous dynamics, color, extension, and verve. It's very quiet in the groove. And most important, it makes my LPs sing, rock & roll or growl as the case may be. It was an awful lot more money than I had ever considered spending on a cartridge before...but (IMO) I had never owned a stereo system of sufficient quality to truely "justify" spending that kind of dough. On the other hand, I'm thinking that the analog source part of my stereo system in complete for several years at least.

WTS

The OC9 is indeed exceptionel value for money but having gone from the A-T to the Lyra Dorian I would consider the latter a substantial step up in performance. The Dorian is easily the best cartridge I've used, I can't think of anything it doesn't do well. I would buy another without hesitation (or consider one of the better Lyra's).

I love the Skala! It's a dramatic improvement over any cartidge that I have owned and as good as any cartridge I've ever heard. It has tremendous dynamics, color, extension, and verve. It's very quiet in the groove. And most important, it makes my LPs sing, rock & roll or growl as the case may be. It was an awful lot more money than I had ever considered spending on a cartridge before...but (IMO) I had never owned a stereo system of sufficient quality to truely "justify" spending that kind of dough. On the other hand, I'm thinking that the analog source part of my stereo system in complete for several years at least.
My second Lyra, a Clavis DC, is nearing the end of its useful life. It's easily the best cart I've ever owned and it works a treat on my ARO. The only other Lyra that has the correct overhang for the ARO is the Helikon, which is the spiritual successor to the Clavis DC. In your comparison of Lyra carts, did you compare the Skala with the Helikon?

I'm almost inclined to change the ARO to an EkosII just to allow me a wider cartridge choice, not to mention less alarming cueing when slightly inebriated or tired, but I'm unlikely to find the dosh for both at the same time. Besides, the ARO works brilliantly, and I know not to fix what's not broken.

Thoughts?

James

> If I could get a cart with the 20's bass and the 17's mid and treble I'd be happy.

how about the smaller shelter - the 301? fantastic cart for the money! i run mine in a kuzma stogi reference arm on a raven1 (heed quasar). it needs an arm heavier than 12.5 g though so i had to attach some weight to the headshell!

the 501 is said to be "much" better. i don't buy that warmth/undynamic thing...

regards
BF

I think maybe the original poster is sorted seeing as the thread is over 2 years old, lol.

I think maybe the original poster is sorted seeing as the thread is over 2 years old, lol.

That is brilliant and you can thank 'JohnMak' for resurrecting it.:confused:

With respect. These days, with records only available used, I'd hesitate to subject them to a SPU with tractor like tracking, no matter how characterful it made things..... I did like the sounds it made though as a mate still has one.

With respect David, do you think a company like Ortofon would produce a cartridge that would damage customers records! Also don't forget the SPU has been in production for over 50 years and these are still in great demand today.

The stylus profile is designed to take account of the mass of the cartridge and the tracking force so no damage will occur. However any cartridge with a damaged stylus, incorrect tracking weight or incorrectly set up tonearm has the capability of damaging or wearing records. This is no different to any cartridge. I have 5 SPU's including a mono and none of my records have ever been damaged. A few years ago one of my close friends who also runs SPU's played one record over the course of a weekend over 100 times. He recorded the first time he played the record on a Nagra 4S and then the last time and compared the 2 recordings - both were identical and with no extra noise either before of after. Also he still plays this record now and it is no different to what it was before.

Ortofon still make these cartridges and now there are 9 different models including 3 mono versions. Their main market is Japan, Germany and the Far East but they are gaining popularity in the UK again, especially the Royal N - this has no headshell and therefore can be mounted on any conventional tonearm.

http://www.ortofon.com/html/profile.asp