Does anyone have any long term experience with DNM Reson solid core speaker cable. I have used DNM interconnects for a few years and like them a lot. Thinking about going for DNM speaker cable.

I know it is low capacitance (conductors set widely apart) but high resistance (the wire is pretty thin) and high inductance. This in theory should mean some high frequency roll off. I find the interconnects very fast and transparent with a rhythmic bass, what is the speaker cable like?

I also need to know compatibility with my power amp (Rega Maia), as I have heard that DNM cable can cause instability problems with some amps.

Your comments would be appreciated.

Brad,

I've been using DNM speaker/IC cables for about 15 yrs. now, and it still works perfectly for me. I'm not a (real) cable freak, so I only compared it to NACA5 and Linn K20.
"Fast and transparent" is what I would call it, too. No audible treble roll-off and excellent midrange. I've only been using speakers that do not need an awfully high damping factor to sing.
Never had any stability problems with Nait3, Gainclone, Roksan Caspian, Creek4040S2, NAD3155, AMC3030, 41Hz amp3 and neither had my mate with his Crimsons (who also uses DNM cabling throughout).
What speakers do you use?

Best,
Oliver

I've been using DNM between a Creek amp and Epos speakers. Seems to work pretty well.

My local Naim seller warned that solid core cables would mess up the bass but that hasn't happened.

Excelllent cable I thought after using NACA4, the treble is very well integrated and as a result, it sounds "seamless" to me (all this in comparison with the Naim cable).
Needs quite a lengthy run-in though.
And I have used it to make my own interconnects, soldering on din plugs for my Naim amp and thus bypassing adaptor leads that degrade the sound.

I had heard that DNM speaker cable reduces the damping factor of the amplifier. I am using Ruark Talisman II's (fairly easy to drive) with a Rega System (Planet/Cursa/Maia). I already have DNM interconnects with the bullet plugs and they are the best I have tried. I originally bought the interconnects or my old Creek 4330 (passive pre amp stage) and found that the low capacitance DNM's worked well with this amp. I know Creek recommend DNM speaker wire and interconnects for their equipment. You often see Creek/Epos systems with DNM. Most Rega owners opt for Rega cable, Naim NACA5 or Chord. Certainly these are the ones that Rega dealers tend to push. But I like the DNM sound. I think I will give the speaker cables a try. May go second hand if they take ages to burn in though.

Using the speaker wire for interconnects is interesting because the speaker wire has wider spaced conductors than the interconnect wire. I wonder if this changes the sound?

I certainly think DNM cable is pretty good value compared to other brands, and it is a pitty so few dealers sell it in the UK.

I have used DNM speaker wire for over a year and have been very pleased with the sound. It first replaced NACA5 with Naim 252/Supercap/250II and I found it to be faster sounding, with sharper transients and more clarity. A very worthwhile upgrade. It was after experiencing the speaker cable that I got into the DNM interconnects and I now have DNM cabling throughout. At this time I have traded Naim for Crimson 710 and 640D monoblocks, and it works very well there as well, feeding Dynaudio Confidence C2s.

Norman

It certainly seems people use the DNM cable in pace, rhythm & timing orientated systems. I beleive from my experience from the interconnects they compliment these types of systems very well indeed. The Crimson monoblocks are excellent, again it is a pitty so few dealers sell them here in the UK. They would probably seel less Naim as a result though! (the Crimsons are excellent value for money).

I have noticed Cyrus recommendeding DNM. Any Cyrus users?

I have noticed Cyrus recommendeding DNM. Any Cyrus users?

Over here. CD8x, Amp 8vs and 2 PSX-Rs.

I've used both DNM and Cyrus cables which are quite similar (I believe DNM manufacture cables for Cyrus).
They compliment the lean and snappy presentaiton of the Cyrus kit well.
I was happy with them and had no inclination to change until I tried Eichmann eXpress 6 I/C and speaker cable which I found superior. More "texture" and "thereness".

Subtle but worthwhile, as they say.

Oh FWIW,

A local guy rewired a pair of rather pedestrian Monitor Audio MA202s with DNM speaker cable and Eichmann Cablepods.

I heard the before and after.
Transformed them into giant killers I kid you not...

Rewiring with DNM is very much worth it, full stop.
I almost want to say irrespective of system, because his was right out there, traditional "round earth".

I always have DNM I/Cs and speaker cables lying around for emergencies - the Mogami trashes them.

I always have DNM I/Cs and speaker cables lying around for emergencies - the Mogami trashes them.

Agreed. The DNM speaker cables manipulate the sound very noticeably. The high resistance both rolls off low bass while reducing damping factor resulting in a weak, ill-defined bottom end. These effects are less apparent with high impedance and/or high sensitivity speakers but the effect of the cable in, for example, a classic Linn/Naim/Rega/Exposure system is to kill dynamics.

Cyrus recommend DNM and have done for many years. DNM had some input into the Cyrus range through the 90s but I think the designs are pretty much in house these days, and better for it.

DNM (and Cyrus) interconnects are fine and good value.

Robert,
Agreed. The DNM speaker cables manipulate the sound very noticeably. The high resistance both rolls off low bass while reducing damping factor resulting in a weak, ill-defined bottom end. These effects are less apparent with high impedance and/or high sensitivity speakers but the effect of the cable in, for example, a classic Linn/Naim/Rega/Exposure system is to kill dynamics.[...]
with my Lowthers this effect is non-apparent. On the contrary, they need another 2.4R of series resistance to really shine (when used with "sand" amps). I don't subscribe to the "higher damping factor is always better" kind of thinking.

Best,
Oliver

Silly question- what is damping factor?

Erik,

I ihave just gone through this recently because the YBA amp I have at home now has two sets of speaker posts with different damping factors. They actually sound quite diffferent, amazingly enough. Here is ons of the many descriptions I found

http://www.classic-audio.com/marantz/mdampingfactor.html


Bruce

Thanks Bruce.

Silly question #2- what are "dynamics"? I always assumed them to be ability to go from quiet to loud quickly, or something.

My god I'm geeky lately.

Oh FWIW,
Transformed them into giant killers I kid you not...

Rewiring with DNM is very much worth it, full stop.


My dealer has had extensive experience replacing the internal wiring of ATC speakers with DNM, which transforms them into another beast altogether.

Norman

The high resistance both rolls off low bass while reducing damping factor resulting in a weak, ill-defined bottom end. These effects are less apparent with high impedance and/or high sensitivity speakers but the effect of the cable in, for example, a classic Linn/Naim/Rega/Exposure system is to kill dynamics.

I've got some very basic Crimson gear (610C/620D) in my home right now on demo. I am using DNM cabling throughout and Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor speakers.

I absolutely cannot believe the bass response I'm getting out of this setup. Compared to what I had in the past, it sounds like I added a really good sub. Is this ALL due to the (I'm told out-dated) Crimson electronics? The speakers are not particularly efficient at 88dB and the amp is not that powerful at 50 or 60 wpc. My room is not very bass-friendly either but the bass is neither weak nor ill-defined, especially considering that it's coming from 1 6" driver per side.

This is my first experience with this type of gear in my home but there's definitely something special about it.

<< My dealer has had extensive experience replacing the internal wiring of ATC speakers with DNM, which transforms them into another beast altogether. >> This seems odd. I thought ATCs' strength was bass; its not DNM cable's.

Well, Crimson if firmly in the flat earth side of things. Tight, extended bass with plenty of rhythm and verve is part of it. Enjoy!

The Crimsson stuff is very good.

Brad.

The Crimson stuff is excellent! I borrowed a pair of the monoblocs for a month and they were more fun with more grunt than my NAP 250 (although they did get very hot and look like they were about to catch fire most of the time).

I would advise anyone internally wiring speakers with DNM cable, or being mundane and just using it for speaker wire, to try some Mogami 2972 instead. I understand the ethos and like the price but I can't even envisage DNM cable being the best thing to use between a DNM pre > power.

Well, Crimson if firmly in the flat earth side of things.

I've seen that term bandied about but don't really know what it means in audio terms.

I've seen a couple of references to the heat issue but I've not gotten this stereo amp to heat up that much. Granted I haven't used it a REALLY high levels but still, it hasn't been an issue for me yet.

Broadly speaking, equipment can be defined as flat earth or round earth. Flat earth is the music, the timing, the rhythm, the tune, the emotion, how you connect to what is being played. A good flat earth system is purely concerned at making you enjoy the music. It comes from the days when the likes of Linn and Naim taught the public how to audition hi fi equipment. Before that time hi fi equipment was designed and purchased on the basis of technical specifiactions and how it performed 'on paper'. Linn basically said that the piece of equipment that allows the listener to remember the tune, start tapping their foot etc.... was the better piece of equipment.

And even today, there is two schools of thought. The round earth is about imaging, detail, tone, soundstage, air etc.... Flat earth in basic terms is about pace, rhythm and timing or PRaT in Naim language. There are some who want both, and will pay tens of thousands of pounds to get it (and often are still not happy). I feel that most people with sensible budgets will get more long term satisfaction from a flat earth system than a system that excels only in round earth attributes and cannot play a good tune.

Most brands can be classified into the two catagories. There are some brands that either sit in between or do both well.

Some flat earth brands are Naim, Linn, Rega, Exposure, Crimson, Densen etc.......

Brad.

Brad! Thank you for the explanation!

I've been somewhat into audio for eight years or so and had some decent systems (Upper-end CJ, ProAc, Pathos) but have never been really all that satisfied. This Crimson stuff certainly does offer something different than what I'm used to. For example, I wanted to listen to one track from Getz/Gilberto the other night to get an idea of how the recording/instrumentation sounded on the Crimson stuff. Well, I listened to the whole album . . . I didn't want to turn it off. The crazy thing is that even though I was auditioning stereo gear I found myself NOT thinking about the equipment. I guess that says something.

As a fairly serious tenor saxophonist I always tend to focus on getting the tenor sound right but this stuff did so much more to draw me into the whole performance. My wife, who's not a musician (unless you count trombone in high school) made the comment that while she usually preferes the tube sound, she didn't care about that with the Crimson.

Thanks again!

Also forgot to mention synergy in my previous post. Synergy, in my opinion is often very over looked. I put synergy in the flat earth camp. It's a bit like a group or band. Put the right people together and they make the music flow and sing.

Your previous gear I would put in the round earth camp. They probably were superb in certain areas, but were they musical? That is always the magic question. What speakers and CD/turntable are you using?

Brad.

It's a bit like a group or band. Put the right people together and they make the music flow and sing.

Yeah, that's the truth. Put the wrong people together and . . . ugh.

I was using ProAc Studio 150s and EAD T1000/DSP7000 Mk.III transport/DAC. Now I'm using Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor speakers and a modded Marantz SA11-S1 CD/SACD player.

I'm sure bub will be along soon to correct this thread.

Using DNM with my Naim system. It replaced NAC A5. Happy with it so far!

I've got some very basic Crimson gear (610C/620D) in my home right now on demo.

This is my first experience with this type of gear in my home but there's definitely something special about it.

Hi M3,

Your experience rings very true with me. Plugging in the 610/630/630 combination for the first time, also on home demo, was initially disorienting: I was hearing music portrayed by an audio system unlike anything I had experienced in over 30 years in this hobby. I believe that my experience with making music falls between yours and your wife's. I like to recount that most of my childhood/teenage memories are of either practicing my violin or rehearsing in chamber or orchestral groups. Actually, it probably goes back much further as I spent several hours a day in all nine of my gestational months a foot away from the keyboard of a Steinway grand as my mother pounded away. So, when music is done right, it strikes a chord (sorry, pun not really intended) deep within my psyche. However, I did not pursue music as a career.

As I said, I have spent over 30 yrs as an audiophile hobbyist, with the last three years unusuallly unsettled. In the last several years, I have had a succession of "round earth" components pass through my living room including ARC, C-J, BAT, and VAC. I took in the Pathos Classic One in partial trade for the VAC Avatar Super and the sound is so "pretty" that I can't bring myself to part with it; it serves as my primary back up amp. I converted to flat earth about a year and a half ago, initially with a Naim CDS3 Cd player and rapidly upgraded through the electronics line up to the 252/Supercap/250II, which I lived with for about a year before the Crimson landed in my living room. It took all of two evenings' listening to convince me that the combo made music better than the Naim at a fraction of the price. When I inquired about buying the set up, I was told that the 710 preamp was in the wings and that I could audition that if I would keep its existence quiet. Not difficult as I live in an audio desert, the central valley of CA. Well, if you think the 610 makes music, you haven't heard anything until you have heard the 710. I have posted many raves over Crimson here, so I won't burden the other forum members by launching into yet another one here. I'll simply recommend that you trust your ears.

Norman

Has anyone experience of DNM solid core IC for rewiring (Rega) turntable external cabling? I think TT wiring should be low capacitance and DNM truly is, but how about shielding? DNM has not got any shielding.

The arm cable wiring has to be shielded otherwise you will have hum and maybe even some radio stations thrown in for good measure.

I guess you could screen the DNM with some Bacofoil but it wouldn't win any prizes for looks or practicality.:o

The arm cable wiring has to be shielded otherwise you will have hum and maybe even some radio stations thrown in for good measure.


Apparently, no one told the people that made this.

http://hometown.aol.co.uk/Glimour%20P%20S/DSCN1062.jpeg

The arm cable wiring has to be shielded otherwise you will have hum and maybe even some radio stations thrown in for good measure.

I guess you could screen the DNM with some Bacofoil but it wouldn't win any prizes for looks or practicality.:o

Do you mean cable inside arm or external wire? I think Rega P2's original wire is standard unshielded bulk cable and mine is not humming with it.

If someone has good suggetion for _external_ diy cable for Rega P2, please write PM to me. (otherwise it is OT):)

The internal wiring is shielded by the metal arm tube, it's the external 1 mtr or so which needs shielding. Sometimes you can get away with it but usually you need a shielded cable.

The Rega arm leads are and have always been shielded.

The grey stuff that comes out of a RB300? Sorry, but that's bollocks.

[QUOTE=Mike Sae;213307]Over here. CD8x, Amp 8vs and 2 PSX-Rs.

I've used both DNM and Cyrus cables which are quite similar (I believe DNM manufacture cables for Cyrus).

It is DNM with a black weave around it.

The grey stuff that comes out of a RB300? Sorry, but that's bollocks.

Even the most basic black signal cables we all know and love are shielded. While I've never dissected an RB300 cable, I would pretty much bet on it being shielded.

While I've never dissected an RB300 cable, I would pretty much bet on it being shielded. I guess that depends a bit on what you would regard as "shielding". A "live" conductor covered by a braided "ground" conductor does not make proper shielding in my book. Particularly so if the tonearm ground is internally connected to the signal ground.

Proper shielding approaches can bee seen here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shielded_cable).

Don't get me wrong, I really like my RB300, and I think it has some very nice qualities, particularly if you consider the price. However, its cabling was not one of them IMHO.

Proper cabling (continuous from the headshell to the plugs, with a dedicated ground cable), together with an adjustment of the bearings, gave it a considerable performance boost.

Best,
Oliver