Just happened to notice a few comments on the new Nima arm. Is this going to give me a lot of 'Aro' and a better sound from my LP12 for not too much money? Or am I better of sticking with the ittok?

Arty

I heard Mr Weekes' LP12/Nima/Klyde the other week, and very nice it sounded too.

I think he'll tell you that the Nima is much better than the Ittok it replaced.

I guess the real difference is that the ARO was specifically designed for the LP12 wheras the NIMA is not. Interesting that the NIMA is an anagram of NAIM though. Perhaps the best approach is to ask Roksan to provide a dem of their unipivot set up on a Sondek. On the side of the ARO they do possess some drawbacks in terms oh suitablr cartridge partnerships as they were designed to match Linn cartridges in terms of overhang. Another alternative is to consider either the Hadcock 288 unipivot or the bang-up-to-date Clearaudio Unify unipivot which reatils for circa £635 which is still a lot cheaper than a Naim ARO. Regards Tony

I have looked a little bit on the naim forum, but there is really only 1 or 2 people who have actually listened to one on an LP12, though they are both good reports! It just sounds odd that at £350 it supposedly trounces a Linn ittok, which was Linn's superarm until the ekos. Is it more a case of it's just different rather than better!?

Arty

It just sounds odd that at £350 it supposedly trounces a Linn ittok

It does*!

Is it more a case of it's just different rather than better!?

Well 6 months (at a guess) down the line, I still think it's bloody amazing and haven't missed a single thing about my Ittok.

I was even concerned that the Ittok was f*****d, but the bearings exceeded Linn's specs when tested.

Somewhere you'll find some posts I made about it, but it's a superb arm in my view, that punches above it's weight and has quite exceeded my expectations.

Andy.

* Disclaimer to avoid protracted argument / debate, "to my ears, in my system, on my LP12 etc. etc...."

:)

HI,

i have posted on the Naim forum re my exploits with a Nima - the supplied washer Roksan deliver with it IMV is not suitable for fixing the NIma to the Linn armboard - I aquired a flat washer that does the job much better - should you need one I have one spare.

I can't comment on a straight a v b demo of the ittok v Nima - i did it somewhat blind and took a chance, but I also circussed, new plinthed and lingo 2'd my deck.

andy c!

the supplied washer Roksan deliver with it IMV is not suitable for fixing the NIma to the Linn armboard

Why do you say that?

Just curious as I found it to be fine.

Andy.

Andrew,

Could you please tell me in what way it betters the ittok? I know it's hard to describe the sound benefits, but sometimes it's not always as clear cut as it's made out.

I have listened to an aro in the past when I was buying a new cartridge and liked it. Just seemed to be very flowing and natural. My ittok sounds nice, don't get me wrong. I like the slam it has and the detail, but sometimes doesn't seem to have that expansive, flowing and real sound. Just don't want to swap to then find that it sounds different, but doesn't really do anything better than the ittok.

It may be the case that the only way to get that is to get an aro, but just thought it looks very much like one and know Roksan stuff is meant to be pretty good and well made. Don't know if it works well with Linn though!

Arty

Hi Andy,

The comments or of course iMV only - others may have affixed the arm (incl you) and it stayed there fine - mine didn't so I obtained a flat washer of the correct diameter etc from a local DIY shop...

Could you please tell me in what way it betters the ittok? I know it's hard to describe the sound benefits, but sometimes it's not always as clear cut as it's made out.

I'll try!


I have listened to an aro in the past when I was buying a new cartridge and liked it. Just seemed to be very flowing and natural. My ittok sounds nice, don't get me wrong. I like the slam it has and the detail, but sometimes doesn't seem to have that expansive, flowing and real sound. Just don't want to swap to then find that it sounds different, but doesn't really do anything better than the ittok.

That flow is one of the first thing you notice about the Nima (actually that's not strictly true if you read my initial thoughts - you don't really notice anything, such is it's even-handedness).

My Ittok always had an uneasy edge to it's sound, a little bit 'edge of seat' for me, and sometimes I was convinced the cartridge was mistracking and was never totally happy with the treble end or end-of side performance. It was a bit splashy at times. This is why I almost convinced myself the arm was damaged, despite owning it since new and having looked after it.

The Nima is a little more relaxed, but not in a boring way, but in a way that sounds as if it's not having to try so hard, if that makes sense. The ease of listening and ability to dip in and out of the mix, or just follow the musical whole is great.

It shares characteristics (from memory) of the two Aro's I've heard previously, although I wouldn't say they sound the same.

Here's what I wrote previously, I still stand by it all.

http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9649&page=5&highlight=Nima

Changes since those posts are the deck was serviced and I fitted a new, genuine Linn, armboard (Rega cut).

Like an Aro (any unipivot, actually), it's *very* sensitive to azimuth setup, but once it's set (which is easy to do - just rotate the arm weight!), it's great.


It may be the case that the only way to get that is to get an aro, but just thought it looks very much like one and know Roksan stuff is meant to be pretty good and well made. Don't know if it works well with Linn though!

This was my thought process when I bought it: -

1. Not happy with Ittok

2. Really want an Aro, but it's a bloody lot of money and they rarely crop up s/h

3. Nima looks good and it's bloody cheap compared to the Aro

4. If I buy one and don't like it, I can sell it with a very modest loss, so it's worth a gamble to find out if I need to keep saving for that Aro.

5. Lost craving for Aro on Nima's arrival - now a happy bunny and sold Ittok for a price which means the switch cost nothing :)

Hope that helps.

Andy.

My Lp12 cost me £325.00 (Pre mods). I sold the Ittok for £285.00. The NIma cost me £350.00. I use the Roksan tonearm cable HDC2 that costs about £130.00 rather than the stock cable supplied - having tried them both the former is far more open in the bass and faster sounding.

I use the Roksan tonearm cable HDC2 that costs about £130.00 rather than the stock cable supplied - having tried them both the former is far more open in the bass and faster sounding.

I use a Prefix, so no arm cable needed ;)

Andy.

I use a Tabriz Zi on my Linn, can't understand why these sell for buttons and Ittoks fetch silly money. The Scottish made Akito (imo) makes a nonsense of any Ittok other than an 8.
The Kuzma Stogi works really well on the sondek(apart from height issues), possibly the damping makes it have slightly less Kamikaze tendencies than the Aro - still tends to cue rather eratically compared to an Ekos !
Get a good nights sleep Tony, you'll need the hands of a surgeon tomorrow !
Si

'The Scottish made Akito (imo) makes a nonsense of any Ittok '

You just cannot be serious!The Akito is a budget tonearm with a budget sound, my Ittok would *iss on it! I've owned them over the years along with several Ittoks and a good Ittok is better than an average Ekos and miles better than an Akito.

I'm deadly serious, I've owned them briefly and would not give them house room - next you'll tell me all the oddly angled screws holding it together are scientifically placed.
As to beating an Ekos ? get a grip !

Incidentally £650 is budget ? What did your Ittok cost - you wus robbed . I have 4 arms, none of which cost £650 and your Ittok couldn't live with any of them.
Only my opinion of course not being a bonafide expert like yourself!

When i purchased my Ittok it cost £374 brand new. When i purchased an Akito for the first time it was around £200 and it was marginally better than an LVX plus, so average at best. Some of my friends over the years have had 'average' Ekos arms, one had to go back to Linn as it had sub standard bearings, dealers have reported the same, don't believe me ring Linn and ask them as they are known problems, so a good Ittok will be better than an 'average' Ekos. As for being an expert, i seem to recall you were the one to rubbish an Ittok in your grand sweeping statement 'The Scottish made Akito (imo) makes a nonsense of any Ittok other than an 8'. Somehow you have an Ittok 'agenda', Ittok's fetch good money for very good reasons, not a lot out there better them on an LP12.

I think you'll find the problem with the Ekos was the grease was not up to scratch, not any problem with the bearings- small compensation to the owner I agree.
A £200 Akito must have been many moons ago?
A nice Akito has drawn very favourable comments from my friends, as has a very early Ekos Mk 1 with no apparent issues - flat & round e's alike, two Ittoks drew not a lot of any kind of comment.
I don't have an agenda, I just personally think having tried them and lots more that they are not for me.
I also laugh at attempts to justify Kans & Naits as anything other than a students system or a nice keepsake- oh?. My Meridian M2's on the other hand can still give most things a run for their money nearly 30 years later but possibly, hell definitely wouldn't fetch the price of an Ittok - very sad.
As to sweeping statements? where do your qualifications enter the equation,
know what I mean Gary?

Remember guys, these are just people opinions, including mine, not tablets of stone. Look at the Bristol show thread to see why one mans Nirvana is another's Purgatory.

There's no need to argue about it, however the views may be at odds with your own - it just raises the noise floor in an otherwise good thread. Just listen for yourself and if you're happy it matters not one jot what anyone else thinks.

It's interesting that the more pleased I become with my system, the less I feel the need to discuss it or argue it's validity, a pattern I've seen amongst an increasing number here.

This has been a public service announcement, thank you for listening ;)

Andy (who thinks Kans and Nait's are a bundle of fun).

Andrew L Weekes,

Thanks you for your review! Much appreciated! I wasn't even thinking about changing my arm until the other day when I saw a review of the radius in one of 'the magazines' and thought, 'that looks like an aro, i'll try and find a review'. I did find a few threads saying that it totally wiped the floor with an ittok. Then I started to think it might be worth a try seeing as though you can get probably all the money for it from selling the ittok. I do like the sound that it takes away the edge you get with the ittok as I sometimes feel it's a bit too sharp in the treble with some recordings and sometimes a bit too overblown in the bass, whether the nima would sort this in my system I don't know, but sounds like it would. The only thing i'd be worried about is that I listen to a lot of stuff like Dire Straits and Fleetwood Mac etc. that I like with a lot of impact and bounce and don't want to lose the fact that the ittok does do well with this kind of thing. Not sure if the nima might be a little too laidback and relaxing (if you know what I mean!?). Saying that, if it has a similar sound to the aro, it's probably to my liking. I, like you though, really cannot justify £1500 on an arm, especially as my deck, although not much like it was when I bought it, is an old bird and you can't help thinking that £1500 is a bit excessive for it.

Thanks very much for your feedback on the nima Andrew, I think I might do a bit of calling a few dealers to see if they have one on an LP12 for a dem!

Regards

Arty

Arty,

I would agree that the Nima is an excellent arm for the money but the Naim Aro is better. Whether it is worth the extra money (even a secondhand Aro is considerably more expensive than a Nima) is a personnal question of priorities probably would be to me tbh if I still used an LP12 but there again the difference buys a much better cartrdige or phonostage imo.!


Regards

Jason

PS. Andy, you should really try a DV p75 (or similar) in place of the prefix one day.

Is it possible to use any pre-drilled LP12 armboard with the Nima? Which one?

Is it possible to use any pre-drilled LP12 armboard with the Nima? Which one?

Nima is compatible with the Rega-type armboard.

It's interesting that the more pleased I become with my system, the less I feel the need to discuss it or argue it's validity.....

Here here!, Andrew.

PS. Andy, you should really try a DV p75 (or similar) in place of the prefix one day.

One day, I'll build my own ;)

Laverda might have some input here too, I think he's tried Nima and Aro on the same LP12, IIRC, he might be able to offer some additional input and advice.

My view is very much tempered by the great VFM of the Nima*, if cost were no object, I'd have made the comparison with an Aro.

Andy.

* And Roksan treated the wife and I to a great gig at the forum in London, just to declare all interests above board :)

Anrdrew,

Just had a chat with my local dealer and he seems to think that it's worth a try too! He's very much the kind of try it to see if it works rather than just saying yes and no depending on what he stocks!! He's going to try putting a nima onto his spare LP12 and invite me over to see what I think first before I just go ahead and buy! Just got to wait for a few weeks though! :( ha ha

He did say though that he thought that the nima in principle, should work to about 2/3 of an aro for a quarter of the cost. He is an aro fan, so for him to say that is a bit of an indicator I think. He didn't knock the ittok, and did say that it is a lovely arm, but did say that the nima (again in principle) should give me the more flowing mid orientated, organic sound that I am after over the ittoks boom and sparkle. What is more intruiging is that the swap should cost me next to nothing!!! Always a bonus! Saying that, he did reckon that the standard arm cable was worth replacing with the upgraded one as it is much, much better and definately worth the exra outlay, so suppose it would cost about £100 ish to do the swap! Not bad in my opinion!

Fingers crossed it goes well then!

Arty

What is more intruiging is that the swap should cost me next to nothing!!!

Arty

Arty... how did you manage that? Is the dealer taking the Ittok in exchange or are you planning on selling the Ittok privately? If the change over is almost free then sign me up - out with the Ittok and in with the Nima :D

Anyone know of a dealer near Southampton who'd be able to do such a thing?

Lefty

Arty,

agree with your dealer re the Roksan HDC tonearm cable - i have done the a v b on this...

Lefty, what I mean is more the fact that i'd get about the same for my ittok as the nima costs. Give or take what the dealer will add on for the time to actually transfer the arm. So, when I say nothing, I mean is negligable, in comparrison to the difference it could be if I had to buy the arm separately.

Yes, there could well be the opportunity for a swap somewhere, or i'd just sell it privately or something.

Arty

So, sounds like this is definately a must! I will definately do that if I decide this is the way to go. I couldn't be arsed to bother taking the whole lot back later to be honest! Also, if i'm going to change it, I want it to definately be better than my ittok, or what's the point. So I will definately ask for the HDC cable me thinks!

Cheers Andy!

I also laugh at attempts to justify Kans & Naits as anything other than a students system or a nice keepsake- oh?. My Meridian M2's on the other hand can still give most things a run for their money nearly 30 years later but possibly, hell definitely wouldn't fetch the price of an Ittok - very sad.

Keep laughing to your heart's content: I think that the NAIT1 was a much underrated product. Although its sound is bettered by any Naim pre-power setup, it was a gem - it was (and probably still is) the only integrated amp rated at 15W which was remotely close to driving the Isobariks.

Similarly, I have had the Linn Kans1 on the end of all grades of Naim system, including a top-flight one. They are undoubtedly very coloured speakers not to everyone's tastes, but were hard to beat from a musical (ie tunefulness) point of view. I found them very revealing of system changes, and capable of delivering a very musical presentation of the sound with rock music.

As to sweeping statements? where do your qualifications enter the equation, know what I mean Gary?

....and my Dad is bigger, better, richer, more handsome than your dad;)

Arty,

We'll all be interested in your report once you've listened!

Andy.

Yeah, I will definately let you all know how I get on! I am really excited at the prospect to be honest. I love my Linn I must admit, but I would prefer more of the aro sound than the ittoks if I can do that for pocket money!! I just hope my expectations aren't too high of the nima and that it matches well with my LP12 and Dorian!!

Cheers for your help Mr Weekes!

[QUOTE=
Anyone know of a dealer near Southampton who'd be able to do such a thing?

Lefty[/QUOTE]


Giver Phil March a call at Phonography in Ringwood. I know he has fitted several Nimas and I'm sure will arrange a demo for you.

Cheers Jo - much appreciated :D

Lefty

Let me know how you get on at Phonography...I hope to do the same dem as well soon.

Jo

Will do Jo - altough I probably won't be investigating the Nima until around the end of April (I'm a bit skint at the moment :( )

Lefty

Arty,

agree with your dealer re the Roksan HDC tonearm cable - i have done the a v b on this...
How does the Nima with Roksan HDC cable (or any other cable upgrade) compare with the ARO?

I use the Roksan tonearm cable HDC2 that costs about £130.00 rather than the stock cable supplied - having tried them both the former is far more open in the bass and faster sounding.

I have just bought one for my Nima (fitted to Planar 3) and it is a super upgrade.

Ed.

HI,
I didn't do this comparison on my deck, so can't comment. The Nima plus HDC cable is lass that £500, compated to the aro which costs £1500?

I was not prepared to spend that on an arm, so didn't do the comparison.

I'll add my 10 pence worth for the Nima arm on the LP12 over the Ittok. It is one of the best arm upgrades and now just listening to music. Side by Side with an ARO was close to call. However, that was by my ears!!!! This is with a DV-20x feeding a Dyna P-75. Dorian will be coming next month.

Phil.

apologies for this pathetic question, but will the Nima arm play a record all the way to the end with the lid fitted and down on an LP12 , i.e. does the Counterweight stub collide with the lid at all .

I'm really glad the Nima is being sold separately these days. I only used one on a Radius (and set up hundreds of its ancestor the Formula 4...............) and liked the sound very much.

I always thought a good Ittok did a late LP12 proud and disliked the abortion they call the Akito, even though the late ones are mechanically sound they look worse finished than an RB250 and hardly justify £600 retail IMO.

If the Nima with upgraded cable sounds great on a 'Sondek then good luck to you guys. More sales should keep the costs reasonable. I think £1500 for an ARO means that Naim are taking the p**s - greedy gits!!!!!!

S and C,
mine seems to - but the deck sounds better with the lid off...

I've not really consodered the Nima before as i thought the Acrylic headshell & Bearing housing looked a little cheap and tacky. I've now had a closer look at one and changed my mind.

I don't believe that an Akito Mk2 is an abortion, I believe it is a very capable and underated arm, I agree that it is not worth £650. Luckily for me I bought mine as a 'mint, ' boxed example, fitted with a mint grey K9 cart for £135 off ebay about 3 or 4 years ago. I sold the K9 for £50 , meaning my Akito 2B cost me £85 ( I also got £37 for the tatty old Linn Basik LVX that it replaced ). I'd call that a bargain.

I personally think that Tonearm manufacturers are free to just add an extra zero to their selling price these days. The Akito 2 might not be worth £650,but then its competitors are guilty of over pricing their goods too if that is the case. Credit to Rega for keeping the stock RB250 and RB300 tonearms at such an affordable level. And the Nima looks to be good VFM too. I thought that the bias adjuster on the one RB250 Rega arm that I'd owned felt positively agricultural though.

E-Bay sellers who sell much older Mk1 Akitos, but then hang on the coat tails of the Mk2 by saying their arms currently sell for £650 are being less than honest. The two arms where different enough to give the Mk2 a new name to avoid confusion.

but the deck sounds better with the lid off...

In your humble opinion ...

The tail of the arm colliding with the lid is something that put me off. I suse my record player with the Lid down all the time, I have a very energetic 3 year old Golden Retriever who always wants to play rough and my family are quite a clumsy bunch , me included so lid down for me.

I think that the Linn Lid is quite well heavy and damped and in my own listening ( nerdy analysing ) tests I didn't feel that having the lid down was detrimental to the sound. On other decks this is not the case, i'm sure that the lid on a Dual 505/4 that i owned was actually bolted directly to the stylus, even a Mana Reference shelf (http://photos.imageevent.com/sidandcoke/someofmydecks/websize/Dual%20overview.JPG)couldn't save it.

I've not really consodered the Nima before as i thought the Acrylic headshell & Bearing housing looked a little cheap and tacky. I've now had a closer look at one and changed my mind.

I don't believe that an Akito Mk2 is an abortion, I believe it is a very capable and underated arm, I agree that it is not worth £650. Luckily for me I bought mine as a 'mint, ' boxed example, fitted with a mint grey K9 cart for £135 off ebay about 3 or 4 years ago. I sold the K9 for £50 , meaning my Akito 2B cost me £85 ( I also got £37 for the tatty old Linn Basik LVX that it replaced ). I'd call that a bargain.

I personally think that Tonearm manufacturers are free to just add an extra zero to their selling price these days. The Akito 2 might not be worth £650,but then its competitors are guilty of over pricing their goods too if that is the case. Credit to Rega for keeping the stock RB250 and RB300 tonearms at such an affordable level. And the Nima looks to be good VFM too. I thought that the bias adjuster on the one RB250 Rega arm that I'd owned felt positively agricultural though.

E-Bay sellers who sell much older Mk1 Akitos, but then hang on the coat tails of the Mk2 by saying their arms currently sell for £650 are being less than honest. The two arms where different enough to give the Mk2 a new name to avoid confusion.

At the price you paid for your AKITO how can I possibly criticise it :D

The Rega arms used to be the most profitable things they made and the Planars the least profitable! Makes a mockery when the very best grade ballraces as used in SME's/top line Regas etc only cost a very few quid more than the lower caste ones... How much money are some of these people making? (the Rega ELA speaker used to cost about £73 to make a pair and they sold for £498 - the original Lingo cost Linn £47 and sold for £499)

Ok, I get it, see what all the others are selling theirs for and pitch your product the same level. If the Ekos costs thousands then the ARO can be £1500 too, even if it's peanuts to build...

P.S. Linn claim the Akito 2 is as good/better than an original Ittok. maybe it is, but they could at least give the bl**dy thing a decent finish and I'm afraid my memories of the easily destroyed mark 1 version are still fresh in my mind... I'd rather have the new cheap SME than an AKITO, sorry...