What do you reckon, worth a try on a cdr copy?
http://www.tweakaudio.com/EVS-2/CD_tweaks.html

Exercises in applied lunacy.

Point eight is where things start to go horribly wrong.

Point 1 for me, Alex.

lol

Any article beginning


I am constantly amazed at the lack of CD tweaking in the high-end community. No one would dare play a record without the appropriate mat, clamp, cleaning the stylus, cleaning the record, setting the azimuth, overhang, tracking force and vertical tracking angle


is clearly written by somebody who has the wrong priorities. Death to tweaking!

-- Ian

Somebody needs help! What do they buy CD's for again?

Do black CD's sound better because they are closer to vinyl...

More seriously, this is utter rubbish. Any improvements I think will be a mental thing, and not an actual improvement in sonics.

Brad.

bloody vandal thats a nice cd

OOOPS just took a closer look..... maybe not as good as i thought

What do you reckon, worth a try on a cdr copy?
http://www.tweakaudio.com/EVS-2/CD_tweaks.html
mentions Peter Belt foils. what more can I say???

So you have all tried everything suggested .....or does it not quite fit with your ordered expectations ?

Some of these tweaks do effect the percived sound....some do nothing for me.

I've tried them all the best [the ones that work for me] are the sanded edges, but thats destructive, and the green pen [the black works fine to].

Now if your using a Naim system your unlikely to even be able to hear the changes, the changes tend to be with the spatial info ie imaging and placment . These are not great concerns for Naim according top the there rep at the heathrow show!

The changes you might experience then with a none flat earth system will be tiny in comparison to a change of ic for a better one.

Better still try the CD flux spray demo at heathrow this weekend ..gob smacking .....

Hi-fi is not an excuse for spending time spraying, shaving, or sticking bits of foil on CDs. It's for listening to music. Life's too short to piss about with endless tweaks, most of which make so little difference it may as well be in your head anyway.

-- Ian

Hi-fi is not an excuse for spending time spraying, shaving, or sticking bits of foil on CDs. It's for listening to music. Life's too short to piss about with endless tweaks, most of which make so little difference it may as well be in your head anyway.

-- Ian
Well said, that man.

He goes to all that trouble of drawing black lines, sanding, etc etc etc...

Then leaves 'em on the carpet business side down!

No wonder they needed sanding!

I've expanded the felt tip marker idea, so my entire collection is now colour coded.
Red: Hot content, probably Jazz between 1930 and 1955.
Green: Eco-aware world music type stuff.
Blue: May have mild to moderate poignant content, diminished 7ths and so on.
Black: Purchased while drunk, please avoid.
Cliff

I've expanded the felt tip marker idea, so my entire collection is now colour coded.
Blue: May have mild to moderate poignant content, diminished 7ths and so on.
Cliff

Surely Blue = Jazz from the late 50s/early 60s. Caution: may contains traces of bop.

Surely Blue = Jazz from the late 50s/early 60s. Caution: may contains traces of bop.
And if there isn't an all - female jazz band called "The Traces of Bop", there damn well should be!
Cliff

Surely this was originally an April 1st posting ?

Did anyone see the review in HiFi+ this month of the Audio Desk Glass CD sound improver? Got a very favourable review but I'm wondering whether it's another April Fool thing.

http://www.audiodesksysteme.de

Thats the edge trimer device ?

Not heard it so can't comment.

Others seem to think it does good things

Heard this at heathrow and was very impressed

http://www.phonosophie.de/International/eCD-Flux.html

Thats the edge trimer device ?

Not heard it so can't comment.

Others seem to think it does good things

Heard this at heathrow and was very impressed

http://www.phonosophie.de/International/eCD-Flux.html

I like the 'Ars' record shop.

Heard this at heathrow and was very impressed
http://www.phonosophie.de/International/eCD-Flux.html

You have to be kidding?!
Surely it was just that the disk was slightly dusty and it got cleaner?!

Hi-fi is not an excuse for spending time spraying, shaving, or sticking bits of foil on CDs. It's for listening to music. Life's too short to piss about with endless tweaks, most of which make so little difference it may as well be in your head anyway.

-- Ian

Amen to that brother.

A gem from uk.rec.audio. Please be seated, so as not to fall down laughing and embarrass yourself.

One of my advanced audio tweaks that seems to have captured people's
imaginations (and incited many megabytes of true ignorant mockery) is
the L-Shape. After he was inexplicably hostile toward me, I criticized
the member named "Fella" (who goes by other pseudonyms) for trying to
draw the thing himself, and not following my specific instructions
about downloading a pre-drawn image of the shape. (Yes, there's a big
difference, AFAIC). Well, as it turns out.... a post that I was sure
went through, somehow didn't make the upload, for I could not find it
when I checked Google. So this Fella never got my link and who knows
what he did as far as L-shapes are concerned. By posting this link,
I'm correcting an oversight on my part. Someone asked me to do this,
and that's the only reason I am. So if Fella or anyone else wants to
try it, I'll leave the file up for now, but when it's gone, it's
gone.

WHAT IT IS: A series of 4 L-shapes, "meticulously drawn" in MS Paint by
yours truly, after experimenting with different sizes and angles, to
acheive the greatest possible effect within a certain time frame.
I've designed it only to try to demonstrate the effect to colleagues,
not necessarily because I think it's a true improvement (it is an
improvement, but not entirely).

HOW IT WORKS: You print it out in MS Paint, or another program that can
print BMP files. I would not print it out in a browser, or anything
that will shrink the image (part of the strength of the effect relies
on the size of the shape). The shape should print out as black as you
can get it, and approximately this size: 10.5cm wide, 1.5cm thick,
8.3cm length for the longer leg.

Once properly printed, you cut out the shapes rectangularly. At least
one should be taped to the back of your CD player, near the jacks. The
other 3 can be placed or taped on or around other components in the
system. Do proper, sighted A/B tests with and without the symbolic
cutouts, to see if you can detect any changes in your perception of
sound.

HOW IT WORKS IN THEORY: Don't worry about it. It's based on newly
developed sciences, but it takes much more time to explain the
foundation of the technique than it does to simply try it, and if you
have to ask before you try it, then you won't believe it anyway.
Suffice to say, it's not a party trick, it's not an April Fool's
joke in March, it has no influence on the signal path or acoustic
pressure waves, and it does not work by autosuggestion or "voodoo
magic". You don't even need to believe that it will work necessarily,
to hear changes. But common sense dictates that if you're extremely
hostile to the idea that it won't, then it might not work for you
where it otherwise would.

WHAT IT SOUNDS LIKE: Almost as hard to explain as the theory, because
advanced alternative audio concepts, who's principles lie outside of
Newtonian law, don't have the same sonic characteristics as
treatments that do operate directly on the signal path. I'd say, it
doesn't affect frequency response and do things that conventional
products normally do. Rather, the influence on the sound, if perceived
at all, is across the board. Depending on the listening skills of the
listener, it could be noted as having an effect on bass, mid, treble,
soundstage depth, width, imaging, timbre, resolution... basically,
everything at the same time. In my experiences, typically, the sound
appears smoother and simply, more natural. Which results in a reduction
of "hash", that typifies hifi audio.

IF YOU THINK ITS SILLY: Then don't try it, simple as that. As I said
before and contrary to popular opinion, I don't get a commission from
putting out free audio tweaks to people. Mocking me for simpy posting
the technique is hardly original, and only makes you look stupid,
ignorant and narrow-minded. But it's your right to be stupid,
ignorant and narrow-minded (and the majority of this group certainly
isn't shy about excercising that right every single day).

IF YOU CAN'T HEAR A DIFFERENCE: If you can't hear a change after
trying all 4 shapes, that's fine. If you can, that's also fine.
Whatever happens, happens. Either way, you've learned something new
about yourself so IMHO, it's always a positive thing. Even if you
-don't- try the experiment, you've learned something new about
yourself! If you want to post your experiences, I'm sure people would
be interested since this is supposed to be an audio discussion group I
believe, but that's also your prerogrative. My experience is that I
have no problem hearing the difference just one of these cutouts makes,
even under double blind conditions. But I've long since learned that
most audiophiles don't have my degree of listening skills, because
they lack the experimental experience in audio that I have. Point
being, what one person hears may not be consciously perceived by
another. That said, I don't believe that hearing the effects of this
particular form of the L-Shape technique is something only reserved for
the most advanced audio gurus, and trained dogs. I say this because I
ran the same blind tests using the same L-Shape cutouts on a
non-audiophile friend, and her positive results were nearly as good as
mine.

http://www.geocities.com/soundhaspriority/

"IF YOU THINK ITS SILLY: Then don't try it, simple as that."

Quite.

But I've long since learned that most audiophiles don't have my degree of listening skills, because they lack the experimental experience in audio that I have.
I bow to his superior wisdom and experience:rolleyes:

Fan-bloody-tastic! What a hoot!

HOW IT WORKS IN THEORY: Don't worry about it. It's based on newly
developed sciences, but it takes much more time to explain the
foundation of the technique than it does to simply try it, and if you
have to ask before you try it, then you won't believe it anyway.
Suffice to say, it's not a party trick, it's not an April Fool's
joke in March, it has no influence on the signal path or acoustic
pressure waves, and it does not work by autosuggestion or "voodoo
magic". You don't even need to believe that it will work necessarily,
to hear changes. But common sense dictates that if you're extremely
hostile to the idea that it won't, then it might not work for you
where it otherwise would.[/I]

"The teachings of the Sri Syadasti School of Spiritual School of Spiritual Wisdom are true in some sense, false in some sense, meaningless in some sense, true and false in some sense, true and meaningless in some sense, false and meaningless in some sense, and true and false and meaningless in some sense.''
http://jubal.westnet.com/hyperdiscordia/apostles.html

To return to the origonal tweak suggestions, I am frankly shocked that some of our less enlightened brethren are'nt already following them. My only additional comment is that the preparation and cleaning process, should only be carried out after a suitable period of spiritual cleansing, a half an hour of meditation is usually enough. The second point is that the process of raising the CD to a higher plane, is best carried out by the light of a full moon. I know it means you can only treat CDs on 13 days a year, but it is important. Some have suggested sacrificing a chicken first, but that is simply superstitious nonsense.

The only tweak I have found makes a real difference is a Marigo stealth mat and that is really quite startling. Everyone who has heard it can hear a clear difference. At the High End Show over the weekend, someone was flogging some CD cleaner, yes I could hear a slight difference, but not a £75 a bottle difference.

I bow to his superior wisdom and experience:rolleyes:

You may get up off your knees now, I see no need for idol worship (the gratitude of the hundreds of audiophiles I've helped by sharing my ideas is enough). You have to accept the fact that there are audiophiles far more advanced than others in this community, as in any hobby one cares to name, but you don't have to acknowledge it. :cool:

If you want some fluid to clean CDs, try a camera lens cleaning kit. I use eclipse fluid and pecpads (lint free cloths) on my camera lenses, and also use it on CDs. Does the trick.

If your CD has got to the stage that it's so scratched so as to produce a noticeable difference using some fancy fluid to fill in the scratches then it's truly buggered, and you need to go get yourself another copy.

Cesare

as in any hobby one cares to name, but you don't have to acknowledge it

I thought it was supposed to be written HOBBY?

Did anyone see the review in HiFi+ this month of the Audio Desk Glass CD sound improver? Got a very favourable review but I'm wondering whether it's another April Fool thing.

http://www.audiodesksysteme.de

Well, I hesitate to admit as much in such a sceptical forum, but I have one of these CD lathe thingies, and I can confirm that the difference between a standard CD and the trimmed CD is monumental; indeed anyone would have to be terminally cloth-eared or deaf to miss the effect. Nerina Pallot's CD Fires is rather compressed and tiresome to listen to, but after trimming was much more 'natural' and enjoyable. The effect on KT Tunstall's Acoustic Extravaganza (which is rather well recorded) was similarly marked, and the soundstage is very differently presented, and noticeably more detailed. I've not had the thing long, so not much chance to experiment fully, but it most certainly does something, which I think I like. Further testing will confirm whether that 'something' is a good thing or not.

At least there's some understandable science behind this!

Cheers

S

If your CD has got to the stage that it's so scratched so as to produce a noticeable difference using some fancy fluid to fill in the scratches then it's truly buggered, and you need to go get yourself another copy.

Cesare

I've had very good results removing scratches from optical media by polishing the shiny side radially with metal polish on cotton wool or wadding. Works great on perspex T/T covers too.

Pledge or Mr Sheen on a duster works too to make scratched discs playable.

I use toothpaste

At least there's some understandable science behind this!

I would respectfully contend that it's pseudoscience. The light from the laser doesn't come anywhere near the edge, and even if it did, any reflection would have no effect on how the laser reads the directly reflected signal. I think you've heard what you want to hear.

Hi-fi is not an excuse for spending time spraying, shaving, or sticking bits of foil on CDs. It's for listening to music. Life's too short to piss about with endless tweaks, most of which make so little difference it may as well be in your head anyway.

-- Ian Life's too short to fiddle about finding and changing CDs when there is a library-full of ripped tracks waiting for play at the touch of a network-enabled player's remote control, while projecting the album cover and tracks on a 3.4 meter screen across the living room - the ideal solution for deteriorating eyes, tired legs and old age ;)

Life's too short to rip thousands of CDs to disk :-)

-- Ian

Another advantage of using EAC is that you can add CD Text to your clones such that your CD player will display CD Title & track names

Whilst a lot of what he advocates is something i myself would not do some of what he says can and does work.

The cleaning of cd's is beneficial,the range of products russ (andrews) does is tried and tested.

The addition of a damping mat is nothing new and most types of these products can and do produce worthwhile upgrades for little outlay.

As the man says most of us put a cd in and leave it at that,is there any wonder many become dissolutioned with cd performance?

I'm still thinking thats the detractors have not tried or heard many of these effects....as stated some of these will efeect the sound to a greater or lesser extent. Don't argue about it try them.....

oh and ir can be seen at the edge of a disc if you have a nightvision googles or video camera with night viewing function ,but remember to cover the ir source on the camera.

As the man says most of us put a cd in and leave it at that,is there any wonder many become dissolutioned with cd performance?

Urm, isn't the main POINT of CD consistent sound quality and convenience? Vinyl responds to tweakery far more IMHO (though I do admit I can hear a difference on green pen'd CDs and trimmed CDs - although I refuse to butcher my own discs!).

Not at all,the fact that to better performance means a bit of hard work means most folk can't be bothered,i admit it's a right pain in the arse having to clean and treat cd's with various liquids but the end result always justifies the means,all imho of course!

The addition of damping mats however is quite different and only takes seconds for a modest increase in performance.

Hmm. This is mostly silliness I think, round at Zanash's at the weekend, we think we heard some differences with the phonosophie stuff, but at silly money per bottle its not something I think I'll get too fussed about. Auric illuminator pen, seemed not to make any difference.

What I found a bit strange about the aticle is the first line "I am constantly amazed at the lack of CD tweaking in the high-end community. No one would dare play a record without the appropriate mat, clamp, cleaning the stylus, cleaning the record, setting the azimuth, overhang, tracking force and vertical tracking angle."

Surely apart from the mat and clamp all of these things come under the heading Basic Maintenance and Correct Setup arther than Tweaks. They are no more tweaks than making sure your tires aren't bald and pumped to the right pressure constitutes souping up your car

Agreed,but just how many of us(on this forum for eg)admit to trying ANYTHING that may enhance cd performance,very few i would think!

What I found a bit strange about the aticle is the first line "I am constantly amazed at the lack of CD tweaking in the high-end community. No one would dare play a record without the appropriate mat, clamp, cleaning the stylus, cleaning the record, setting the azimuth, overhang, tracking force and vertical tracking angle."

Surely apart from the mat and clamp all of these things come under the heading Basic Maintenance and Correct Setup

Once the turntable's set up I don't even do any of that, apart from cleaning the stylus/record when I can be arsed or if the sound is seriously poor (most of the times I've knackered styluses has been when trying to clean them).

Probably because they stand a good chance of getting the piss remorselessly taken out of them. I have tried a few of these things and I'm not sure that I can hand on heart say it makes a consistent noticable difference. Certainly not one that I could be bothered with. The phonosophie "magic" spray comes closest, but even then ... pretty sure it probably costs em all of about 25p a bottle to make. If it works its marginal (I don't even want to begin to think about how it might work, but if it does work I suspect the manufacturers don't actually know either). At the price it is per bottle it would cost me over £300 to treat my CD collection .....

That said I frankly don't WANT to go all tweaky on my CDs and CD player I want it to be black box that I shove CDs in.

Indeed. Buy a CD player you're happy with and play lots of CDs on it. Job done.

-- Ian

If only it was that simple!!

It is that simple!

Exactly.

-- Ian

In that case i'm glad your happy with compromised performance!

Why do you assume it's compromised? Aside from the inherent limitations of Red Book CD, obviously, which potions or shaving can't do anything about.

-- Ian

It doesn't sound compromised to me, it sounds great. I've done all the faffing about and now just listen to music. The final piece in the puzzle was getting the speakers sorted, and I worry vaguely that much of my previous faffing about was unnecessary, as previous problems were probably mostly down to room/speaker mismatch.

Forgive me if i appeared heavy handed Ian,what i meant was explained in previous posts on this item.

That cleaning solutions do work as do mats or enhancement discs,of course if you yourself have tried these products and not come to this conclution fair enough but i can only speak from experience.

The compromise i was speaking of was the medium not your equipment.

Ah, well I don't believe in any of this tweaky stuff, cables, mains, potions, stands, etc. Can't be arsed with any of it, done the listening tests, not convinced, it's either so tiny a difference as to not be worth worrying about, or no difference at all. IMO.

-- Ian

In case anyone is/was unfamiliar with the cleaning soloutions i was referring
to they are the kimber reveel/relees products which vary in performance by virtue of type of recording,some discs have a very small difference some vast,again i can only speak from experience,the enhancement mats do seem to work with all kinds of cd/dvd players but can,t be used with players with vrds transports due to how they work.

Just be grateful Ian that all the money you've saved on all the above allows you to spend money on more music and better equipment!!

Just be grateful Ian that all the money you've saved on all the above allows you to spend money on more music and better equipment!!

More music is always the answer. I think at least half of audio nervosa is due to listening too much to the same recordings, thinking 'hmm, the <insert name of instrument> doesn't sound as good as it should, maybe I need new interconnects'. If you listen to lots of different stuff, that's far less likely to happen.

Agreed,though better equipment will also give you "new" recordings by allowing you to hear things masked by previous products.

The thing about digital is that data is read or it is not. In anything but really crap condition the data will be read; if it is not then drop-out or error messages occur.

Spraying with dragon sperm, painting with green felt tip pen, manicuring the edges, cutting the ears off your cat, or other bollocks will have no effect other than that you choose to delude yourself into hearing.

Does anyone want to buy some of my sperm for their CDs?

Not strictly true Cav,what goes in does'nt always come out,and as i've already said if you can't tell a difference fine.

Do'nt forget some ca'nt tell a difference between a cd555 and £20 supermarket special,we all have different hearing thresholds be thankfull yours is of the latter (if only in financial terms)!!