Amongst non-Naim fanatics (esp. the Olive brigade), many seem to consider the lowly Nait 5i as "special", one of my friend who in the past detested Naim and a thorough round earther, has been recommending it as one of the best integrated under 2k to "aspiring" enthusiast, a few consider it superior to all sub 552/250 Naim amplifications.

I haven't listened to it though I have heard the Nait 5, which to me sounded less crude than the Nait 3 or the 180 but still rough.

These new Nait fans often compares it to switching amps like Nuforce, Gaincard and SET amps!

Is it really that special or are they delusional?

I haven't heard anything like that.

Who says this?

Is it really that special or are they delusional?

Delusional. ( is this another Nait 2 in making? ):rolleyes:
But one can do a lot worse than a Nait, for sure.

I haven't heard anything like that.

Who says this?

A one or two of my hifi-obsessed friends, a few in a local forum, a salesperson I have spoken to, as for reviewers, I think the editor of TAS (The Absolute Shite) Robert Harley (aka the first reviewer to do a negative write up on the original CDS) called it the "best Integrated Amp at any price", I also think Art Dudley said something similar in Stereofool.

I don't want to be unhelpful, but I've learnt lots over the past year about reviewers, salesmen and the hifi business in general and am sure you can discount the last four sources you listed, honestly.

Perhaps have a chat with your hifi buddies, also.

Best integrated amp at any price?
It shouldn't be hard find a demo of the 5i.
I think you'll agree the reports are highly exaggerated.

It competes in its price band, no more no less...

* of course someone could stumble upon a magical synergy of system, room, speakers and mains making the Nait5i the best evar. But that's possible with any amp

Mike,

I know, I was just curious what the mass delusion is all about.

royce,

So, did you listen to the 5i?
If so, what did you think of it?

Let's see what the pundits say :)

royce,

So, did you listen to the 5i?
If so, what did you think of it?

Lost my interest in the "Naim sound" by the time it came out, heard the Nait 5 but was less than impressed.

Still have my olive boxes but currently using old style exposures.

I raised this topic because I was just talking to a non-naim dealer (47 labs/Kondo guy) a few hours back, and he commented that the new Naits and Naim cdps are selling rather well locally compared to the rest of their gear.

royce,

A CD5i does sound different from a Nait5.

It's got more balls than a 5. Maybe this is why some ppl. prefer it.
A comparison to the 552/500 is so over the top, but I can see why since both have a super-sized bass.

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The Nait 5i’s ability to communicate music’s essence is as good as, or better than, many separates at ten times the price.

Well that is true in a way. Plenty of stupid money boat anchor amps that can't hold a tune out there.

I don't think the reviewer would dispute that one could replace the word Nait5i with Nait 5, Nait 3, Creek, Cyrus what have you...

Quoted rom TAS by Robert Harley, Editor

Naim Nait 5i

Choosing the new Naim Nait 5i as Budget Product of the Year was an easy choice. Not only is the latest version of this classic British integrated the bargain of 2004; it’s one of the best values in high-end audio.

The new “i” version combines the musical virtues for which the Nait series is famous, along with an increase in output power to 50Wpc. Rich in tonal color, spectacular in its ability to place instruments in acoustic space, and blessed with a fundamental musical rightness that’s hard to describe, the Nait 5i is a great amplifier by any measure.

The Nait 5i’s ability to communicate music’s essence is as good as, or better than, many separates at ten times the price. Although the Nait won’t deliver the output power and bass solidity of more powerful amplifiers, it will deliver an intensely musical and involving experience.

more nuttiness from the same guy in a Wilson Sophia review...

I achieved superb results driving the Sophia with the 30Wpc Naim Nait 5 integrated amplifier ($1550). Though this combination didn’t fully exploit the Sophia’s dynamic capabilities, it was intensely musical and produced a sound I would have been happy to live with.

The Nait 5i’s ability to communicate music’s essence is as good as, or better than, many separates at ten times the price. Although the Nait won’t deliver the output power and bass solidity of more powerful amplifiers, it will deliver an intensely musical and involving experience.
Does this mean he ditched those ARC stuff and replaced it with a Nait now ?

TAS Recommended Systems

SYSTEM SEVEN: $15,450

Wilson Audio Sophia loudspeakers: $11,700
Naim Nait 5 integrated amplifier: $1500
Naim CD 5 CD player: $2250

Knowing how easy the Wilson Sophia is to drive, just for fun I drove it with the Naim Nait 5 integrated amplifier and Naim CD5 CD player. I had an idea that the Nait 5 was a great little integrated amplifier—I reviewed the Nait 2 back in 1989, and Wayne Garcia thoroughly enjoyed the 5 in his review in Issue 139.

Still, I was absolutely dumbstruck not only by how well the Naim
drove the Sophias, but more importantly, by the Nait 5’s incredible musicality.

I had put on one of my reference CDs, the Harmonia Mundi recording of Handel’s Water Music, for just a couple of movements to get a feel for the sound, only to spend the next hour transfixed, listening to the entire work.

That's a mullet.

That's a mullet.

The problem with that system isn't that it's a mullet (nothing wrong with speakers first IME), but that it has Wilsons on the end of it.

-- Ian

That ain't gonna work.

The Sophia is not that easy to drive.

Having had/heard lots of amps most of which I have liked for different reasons IMO if you want a Naim amp I recommend the Nait 5i with decent loudspeakers (ones you like - big/small - sensitive or insensitive).

Occasionally I use mine with cheapest Naim CDP/my favourite ancient analogue tuner.

With discs/radio etc you enjoy on front end you like, I am convinced that any good budget amplifier into speakers you favour is great.

I've noticed a tendancy for the US mags to go ga-ga over budget British gear, I put it down to the absence of similar product produced in the US.

In the UK there's plenty to choose from.

I've noticed a tendancy for the US mags to go ga-ga over budget British gear,

I've also noticed a tendency for the UK mags to go ga-ga over the over-priced horrendous roundest of round-earth US/JAP gear. :)

How do you folks think the Nait 5i stands next to their seperates like the 140/72 set up I'm currently auditioning?

Cheers,

Bill

How do you folks think the Nait 5i stands next to their seperates like the 140/72 set up I'm currently auditioning?

Cheers,

Bill

It would be a difference of presentation that's for sure, chances are most of the folks here would prefer the old stylee "Naim sound" of PRaT = Music (though 72/140 is much kinder to the ears than the 180 - which I owned) and the upgradibility of the pre/power kit. On the other hand, the Nouveau Naim sound is more forgiving and much better balanced, IMHO.

72/140/Hicap, now that was a bit magical (needs minimum CDI, though).

72/140/Hicap, now that was a bit magical (needs minimum CDI, though).

Sorry...I'm a bit new and semi-pissed...what is CDI?

B

How do you folks think the Nait 5i stands next to their seperates like the 140/72 set up I'm currently auditioning?


The Olive gear have a different sound, but you should check out the 5i anyways.
Make sure the 140/72 should be up to the current spec.

I haven't ABed, but a 5i has more *modern* sound. ( open for many interpretation here )

Sorry...I'm a bit new and semi-pissed...what is CDI?

A very old Naim CD player.
You need an LP12 with a 72/140. ;)

The comments about being 'best integrated a any price' should be taken with a large rock of salt. If you like what Naim does but without the full-on characteristics of the range then perhaps it is. Still doesn't mean anything though.

Personally, I think a Unison Research S6 integrated pi55es all over it, the next person might not. The S6 is not alone in my view. So does it's bigger brother S8, so does an EAR869 or an EAR861. I am sure any owner of an Audio Research VSi55 (hope I got that right) would have a strong view too. There will be other preferences out there also.

These comparisons are not unfair in view of the 'at any price' claim. It's highly likely those who disagree or respond with how great the small Naim is are unlikely to have heard any of the amps I have mentioned BTW.

You need an LP12 with a 72/140. ;)

Yes...I've been told that by the same bastard that gave me the 140/72 to demo. I love the VPI at present...that periphery ring makes all warped LPs flat as the earth that all Naim lovers live on. :p

B

It's highly likely those who disagree or respond with how great the small Naim is are unlikely to have heard any of the amps I have mentioned BTW.
True.
But I've heard the UR's Unico and SR1 in my rig. The SR1 wasn't the worst of integrated I had here, ( somewhat resembling a Nait 2 but it was hopelessly slow ).
Did their newer amp get any better?

I haven't dealt with EAR or ARC integrated, ( I didn't even know they made one ) but after listening to their separate amplifier range, I lost interest in them. Figure if I didn't care for their reference stuff, why would I look for their entry level kit. ( more of the same s**t but worse is what I've figured )

Plus, those cost a lot more than any Naits.
For a low cost set'n'forget fun amp, Naits of any vintage are hard to beat.

I've also noticed a tendency for the UK mags to go ga-ga over the over-priced horrendous roundest of round-earth US/JAP gear. :)

Very little of the serious US or Japanese gear ever gets much or any distribution in the UK, so it rarely gets reviewed at all. The UK hifi press is very parochial, although some Chinese, Italian, and German gear gets reviewed nowadays. Of American brands, Krell, AR, and the other well-known names get reviewed, but hardly any high end Japanese gear ever makes it to market here.

-- Ian

True.
But I've heard the UR's Unico and SR1 in my rig. The SR1 wasn't the worst of integrated I had here, ( somewhat resembling a Nait 2 but it was hopelessly slow ).
Did their newer amp get any better?I'm not sure what you mean when you say newer, perhaps the SR1 has been rpelaced these days (the S6 and S8 are simply different amps in their range, much pricier all valve amps running 6 x EL34 and 2 x 845 respectively instead of solid state)

Ian,
I recall a Zanden and now defunct Niro reviews in one of the UK mags.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say newer, perhaps the SR1 has been rpelaced these days (the S6 and S8 are simply different amps in their range, much pricier all valve amps running 6 x EL34 and 2 x 845 respectively instead of solid state)

Both, SR1 and Unico were hybrids. Not completely solid state.
Also, they both were similar to Nait's pricing. ( under 2k$ )

Ian,
I recall a Zanden and now defunct Niro reviews in one of the UK mags.

Yeah, but it's the exception. Zanden have distribution via Audiofreaks, hence the review. But most of that kind of stuff never makes it here.

-- Ian

I'm sorry, you're right. I stand corrected and I should have made clearer that I had the power section in my mind. The SR1 and S6 share a minimal pre-amp stage using ECC82, they're very different to listen to beyond that though. I've lived with both.

You're price comment is irrelevant given the quotes posted earlier. A £20K integrated would be a fair comparison too if one wanted to include it in the equation. Reviewers really should not make absolutist tripe-statements.

I go back to what I originally said. If you like Naim then one might agree with the initial statements. If you don't then it's meaningless.

Reviewers really should not make absolutist tripe-statements.
I agree.
I was surprised, frankly, for a sr. editor to make such a blanket statement.

I've replaced a Nagra MPA/PLL combo with a Nait 3R. And I don't miss the former altho, it's an excellent amp for the kind.
I highly doubt Robert Harley replaced whatever he's using with a Nait 5i.
He was right about a Nait isn't the best thing to exploit Sophia's dynamic capabilities. Yet, it is puzzling he gave an unconditional endorsement without any caviats.

Are you sure??????????
With all my appriciation to Naim audio but:
A Naim Nait 3R instead of Nagra MPA/PLL?????
and you don't miss the former altho????
That's very interesting, Cause I heard them both in a good systems and I think you miss a lots of other things.
Regards

The Nait 5i is very good, and also qualifies as value for money, not something you often hear in the same sentance as Naim !!

Magical no!...good yes!...its only an Amp after all!

Seagullsnacker...5i owner for a year'n'half and quite happy with it...busily spending all that extra 'hifi' funds on music!

Shurely not Shome Mishtake?

Paul

That ain't gonna work.

The Sophia is not that easy to drive.

Hi Kuma et al,

Can you tell me anything about Wilsons? Never heard em, as there only seems to be one or two dealers in the UK. The Sophias are priced similarly to DBL's, which I own. I keep reading about the Wilson's amazing resolution, deep taught bass, superb imaging etc, etc. They seem to divide opinion much like Naim speakers do. I'm intrigued.

Best,

Mickey

relmiri,

I AM sure.
Otherwise, I haven't rid of the MPA. ( I kept the PLL, however.)
Keep in mind that I run the 3R with a Supercap. It shifts the equasion to Nait's favour more than one would expect.

However, it does miss a lot of *other things* you call it and I certainly appreciated those sonic attributes. Those * other things*, to me are not so important to me any longer if a system can't provide a sense of groove and fun.

A Nait3R/SC together with an LP12, I feel that this is a most fun to listen to compact Wilson system.

I am afraid, my respectable audio days are over. ;)


Mickey,

I haven't yet to hear the DBL, so, I am not certain how Sophia fairs agaisnt them.

But I am betting they would sound completely different from one another. ( taking a guess from other Naim speakers I have heard )

Sophia with a taught bass?
Yikes.
I've owned a W/P 5.2 but gave up on the Puppies and now just using the WATT 6. The bass delivery on the Wilson has always been a bone of contention with me.
Their bass delivery is slower than I would like it to be and not responsive enough.
Sophia, especially, I thought that an excess midbass rise in that, they might sound easy on ears than a say, W/P, you'd give up too much of precision. Simply, you can't follow the bass line. They might give an illusion of deep bass, but not really.

Sophia, altho it has the Wilson house sound, is just too much of a compromise for the money, I think. Sophia is sold for that much in the UK? ( IIRC, DBL now is around 30K$ in the States which is about the same as the new W/P8 )

General impression of their excellent resolution and imaging are spot on. However, I have heard Naim speakers also give a pin-point imaging albeit using a non Naim amplifier and round-earth speaker placement.
The Wilsons might be on every trophy boy's shoppingt list, but I would be cautious as they have a tendency to sound super analytical and the floorstanders are pain in the arse to dial in to sound their best. They work the best in freespace unlike the DBL so you'd better have an ample room.

Flat-earth speakers users might be attracted to their recessed midrange, but with most solid state amplifcations, they can turn quickly into a wallpaper boredom with *lovely* pixie® dust.

They ARE excellent speakers for the genre and I certainly prefer them over, say, B&Ws.

Oddly, Naim/LP12 works with the Wilson well. They add enough sense of humor and humanity to otherwise too damn serious Wilsons.

A one or two of my hifi-obsessed friends, a few in a local forum, a salesperson I have spoken to, as for reviewers, I think the editor of TAS (The Absolute Shite) Robert Harley (aka the first reviewer to do a negative write up on the original CDS) called it the "best Integrated Amp at any price", I also think Art Dudley said something similar in Stereofool.

Art most certainly didn't say anything silly like that. He didn't even review the 5i. Your memory doesn't seem super-reliable.

And your own quotes show that Robert Harley didn't say what you quote him with, either.

Hartley's quotes in TAS regarding the Nait 5i:

"This is not just a staggeringly great amplifier; its $1350 price makes it, in my view, the greatest bargain in hi-fi today."

"Used within its power limitations, the Nait 5i is as good as—and in some ways better than—some five-figure separates."

These comments seem a bit extreme. I've owned a Nait 5i for a couple of years now and have been very happy with it. But I'm sure there is a lot of other great gear out there for the money.

All the best,
Bill

I thought it sounded all right - nothing special; "musical, in a grunty sort of way" I think I heard someone describe it, and that was my impression too. It thumps along like Naims do, but poor at frequency extremes and not very well resolved by modern standards... much like the rest of the range.

It's all right I suppose. Magical? Um... no. Competent but unremarkable.

HK

Kuma,
My most favorite systems are Naim & Nagra, Every Hi end Show I found my self looking and listening particularly for those. I also have a friend (and a neighbor) who has a full system Naim (250*2 Active, SBL, CDS1, 52) which it's a real music experience.
For me any system in the world and I admit, can't deliver the excitement of the music like Naim do.
Nagra for me dosn't have the excitement like Naim, but they are the closest alternative. The Nagra Vpa/PLP (what Naim dosn't) are about magic, and a real magic, purity, details, accuracy and a big sound stage.
My system is:
Amp: Cary Audio Slam 100 Mono
Pre Amp: Melos 333
Cdp: Naim CDX
Loadspeakers: Sonus Faber Guarneri's
I Wish I have the opportunity to hear them (Nagra/Naim) both in my home.
I don't sure If I have the chance to hear them I choose the Naim Nait 3 among them.
I'll be glad to hear what do you think.
Regards
Arik

Arik,

If Naim and Nagra are your favourite, why on earth are you using Cary Slam 100s?!

They do not sound anything like either amps, to my ears.

I've got them on trade.
In that time I had no choices and financial opportunitys.
I wonder how 250 + 52 will sound with my speakers.

On trade?

What were you using before then?

I haven't heard the Naim kit on Guarneri. Beautiful speakers, btw.
A 250/52 will obliviate Cary/Melos, but that's me. :)

Yes, on trade.
I had the Deltec DPA - 50 pre/amp and they sound worse.
The Cary/Melos was a huge improvement.
250 + 52 or 135*2 + 82? what is the best choice?
Do you heard the Guarneri's with other configurations?
Regards

Magical - read "musical". I've had my Nait 5i for 16 months now and the novelty factor still hasn't worn off! Can't stop listening to music of every genre. The only downside is that my fitness has gone downhill - sitting on one's butt all the time.

250 + 52 or 135*2 + 82? what is the best choice?


52/250 if SC is included

however I recall some guy(s) ditched this very combo for new serie 202/200...?

Yes, on trade.
250 + 52 or 135*2 + 82? what is the best choice?
135 x2 and a latest spec 52 if you insist on Olive Naim.

Do you heard the Guarneri's with other configurations?

A huge McIntosh, Airtight,Classe and their own integrated Musica. None, I thought, did any favour for the speakers.

52/250 if SC is included

however I recall some guy(s) ditched this very combo for new serie 202/200...?



The 200/202 combo can't compete with the 52/250 or the 135's. People who make statements like that usually I attribute it to wishful thinking on owners of said equipment. Just for your information on the nait 5i. It is quite a bit better than the nait 5, and I feel much better than the nait 3 and 3r.

For what it's worth, the nait 5i sounded more dynamic and faster to me than a 112/200 combo into rega r3 speakers, so the hype on the nait5i sounding better than separates costing quite a bit more is actually not that exaggerated in my opinion.

For what it's worth, the nait 5i sounded more dynamic and faster to me than a 112/200 combo into rega r3 speakers
A 112 to blame...
My Hicapped Nait 3R had more life than a 112/140. :\

BTW 202 is miles ahead of a 112.