I consider myself to have a very broad taste in music, from Afrobeat to Bach, Krautrock to Free Jazz, Metal to Hip Hop, Daniel Johnson to Zappa and all points in between but, for the life of me, there are a few albums that are very well received by other music lovers and critics which I just don't "get" what the fuss is all about.

I am not saying that they are overrated, but I just don't "feel" any emotion when I listen to them.

Trout Mask Replica Just sounds like a bunch of stoners doing poetry and blues...badly. I listened to it at least 10 times now but it just don't affect me, neither lyrically, intellectually or musically.

Smile Good Vibrations is a great track but Pet Sounds works much better for me.

most of the stuff The Fall puts out, with the exception of "The Nation's Saving Grace"

as for modern stuff, Antipop Consortium, Mars Volta/At the Drive-in, and The Verve.

Got any albums the you don't get or want to make me a convert to Beefhart or Mark E Smith?

Sigur Ros ()

Some soft murmurs, possibly a computer involved.


Tortiose TNT

Some soft strumming, possibly no computer involved.

The Arcade Fire "Funeral"

That guys voice just drives me bat shit...I like 3 songs on the album and saw them live..pretty impressive...but I just don't like many of their songs. Everyone else in Seattle put it in the "Top 10" list for the year.

Bright Eyes - He is NOT the new Dylan!

Stereolab - That girl's voice drives me...well...you know....

what was there to 'get' about at the drive in? it was just dudes with big hair playing loud post-hardcore and kicking their instruments about. :) pretty straight forward stuff really. not that i was a massive fan.

bright eyes and arcade fire are both rubbish.

Anything by The Beatles.

True story.

Royce5.........

Find a bad man who sells LSD and re-visit trout mask with a pair of headphones...........................so I'm told..................

Alex G - Shocking............I'll give you "love me do..........." but the white album is tremendous, and also sgt peppers

S

Anything by The Beatles.

True story.

Good man!!

Kevin

Anything by The Beatles.

True story.
Smack smack smack. And you Kevin. Erik'll be along soon too... :rolleyes:

Ascension by Coltrane just gives me the dry boke!

I'd add Kind Of Blue but I disqualify myself as, try as I might, I cannot get myself into the sound world of that style of jazz at all.

Echo The Fall thing BTW. Dull songs sung badly with uninspiring backing.

I love loads of obscure sixties psychedelia, but am constantly frustrated at my inability to hear the genius in Pet Sounds (Beach Boys) and Forever Changes (Love), both bands made records I like a lot more. (Surf's up and Da Capo for starters...)

And anything by U2. I really, really dislike the noise they make.

One I gave up on was Dylan’s Blood On The Tracks, in fact all 70s or later Dylan leaves me cold. I love the 60s acoustic and early electric stuff though. I really tried with Blood On The Tracks too as most things the critics all rave about tend to have something.

I can’t take jazz-fusion either. The whole genre pisses me off, though I love ‘proper’ jazz.

Tony.

PS Much of this thread looks like a trawl though my record collection: Beatles, Beefheart, The Fall, Beach Boys, Love, Sigur Ros, Tortoise, Stereolab, etc!

Love the Sex Pistols, Love John Lydon, like some PIL records but just cannot get my head around Metal Box/Second Edition no matter how many times i've tried.
It is now relegated to that record box that if i'm being honest will probably never see the light of day again in my lifetime.....

Send all these unwanted records to me, its always good to keep a spare :)

Anything by Led Zep

Fuck me, there's a lot of bad taste around here :-)

-- Ian

Anything by The Beatles.I think you'll find that "Something" was by the Beatles. I don't recall a song called "Anything".

Anything by Led ZepNope - don't know that one either!

At the risk of mentioning another sacred cow...

DSOTM

Dare I say it ..........Radiohead! What are they about - I know that I must be wrong or are they simply not wearing any clothes!

And whilst I am thinking in this way - Goldfrapp! - anyone want their Mercury prize winning Cd in exchange for something better - a blank CD perhaps.

One I gave up on was Dylan’s Blood On The Tracks, in fact all 70s or later Dylan leaves me cold. I love the 60s acoustic and early electric stuff though. I really tried with Blood On The Tracks too as most things the critics all rave about tend to have something.

Exact opposite here. Maybe it's the earnestness...

I can’t take jazz-fusion either. The whole genre pisses me off, though I love ‘proper’ jazz.

What is fusion though? is 70s Miles or Herbie or Lifetime fusion? I can't imagine if you like, say, Sun Ra or funk, would not dig this stuff. If you mean MOR stuff like Four Play then I'd understand.

PS Much of this thread looks like a trawl though my record collection: Beatles, Beefheart, The Fall, Beach Boys, Love, Sigur Ros, Tortoise, Stereolab, etc!

Out of your list only The Fall and Beefhart leaves me cold, been listening to them since late 80s but feels "medicinal" to me. Define their greatness for me great leader...

i've really tried to like radiohead but just can't also the flaming lips especially yoshimi battles.... i kind of get it but it's just ok not this revalatory musical experience all the musos harp on about. overhyped and undelivering.

Fuck me, there's a lot of bad taste around here :-)

-- Ian

I think we are all surprised that good music is less universal that people like to think it is.

...also the flaming lips especially yoshimi battles.... i kind of get it but it's just ok not this revalatory musical experience all the musos harp on about. overhyped and undelivering.

Couldnt agree more - utterly dull and uninspiring if you ask me. Compare it to yerself is steam era mercury rev (who are also pants these days btw) and it pales into insignificance. Car wash my hair any day!

I think we are all surprised that good music is less universal that people like to think it is.

Me, I'm never surprised by people having bad taste, I've only ever met one person in my life whose taste is even close to being as good as mine :-)

-- Ian

Me, I'm never surprised by people having bad taste, I've only ever met one person in my life whose taste is even close to being as good as mine :-)

-- Ian

And it would have been better had I liked The Beatles...

What is fusion though? is 70s Miles or Herbie or Lifetime fusion? I can't imagine if you like, say, Sun Ra or funk, would not dig this stuff. If you mean MOR stuff like Four Play then I'd understand.

Sun Ra, from what little exposure I’ve had, is a very different thing, and I like it. That’s kind of a fusion between big band free jazz and P-Funk. Herbie’s Headhunters is good, but his later stuff leaves me cold. I’m still not sure about Mile Davis later stuff. The really horrible stuff for me is the late 70s white session guy widdly, widdly, widdly willy-showing crap.

The Fall and Beefhart leaves me cold, been listening to them since late 80s but feels "medicinal" to me. Define their greatness for me great leader...

The Fall was easy for me, my first introduction to them was when I saw them in 1980 and they quite simply blew everything I thought music was out of the window. One of the most memorable gigs I’ve ever been to. I’m not sure what I was expecting when a friend said “Do you want to come and see this new band called The Fall?”, but it certainly wasn’t what I got. There is something quite primal about a good Fall gig, and before writing them off you should definitely try and see them. At their best they manage the perfect juxtaposition of hyper-intelligence and pure retardation.

Trout Mask Replica I had to really work at. Again, like the fall it is all about juxtaposition IMHO – it is the contrast between tight and loose, rhythmic and arrhythmic, rigid and free, silly and clever etc. There is a similarity between TMR and much of the free jazz stuff in that the easiest way to gain admission is probably to throw away what you think you know about music and attempt to empty your mind. It does not play by the normal rock rules, and if you judge or attempt to align it to such constructs it will grate against them. Try sticking it on in the background at a really low almost subliminal level when you are doing other things, you may well find it creeps up on you over time.

Tony.

Love the Sex Pistols, Love John Lydon, like some PIL records but just cannot get my head around Metal Box/Second Edition no matter how many times i've tried.

Funnily enough, I thought it was a bit patchy when it came out, but I was very impressed with it when I played it the other day.

Trout Mask Replica - I thought they where pissing about when I first heard it and then just listened to the tracks that I thought I could hear a tune in. Once I got the tunes, I thought it the best thing he ever did.

Dylan - I'll go even further and say that I found parts of Blonde on Blonde dreary and never got The Basement Tapes.

Incoming!

1) The Blues - sorry, it all sounds the same after a while (unless it's in a film with Aykroyd and Belushi)

2) Jazz with electric guitars

3) Belle & Sebastian

4) Agree on Pink Floyd

5) Antony and the Johnsons

Dan, if you want blues that doesn't sound the same, try this amazing record:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00001SI9F/026-1003048-4034856?v=glance&n=229816

You haven't heard the blues until you've heard it played on a homemade one-stringed guitar. Or even bagpipes.

-- Ian

3) Belle & Sebastian



:o

I know they aren't everyone's cup of charlie, but I would've thought they'd be a staple in Maison M.

Ian, thanks - will check it out. I was thinking more along the lines of Eric Clapton, BB King, and every blues bar band I have ever heard.

And here's another one:

6) Richard Thompson

Sorry AG - must try harder, I know.

6) Richard Thompson

Now you're having a laugh. Anyone who can write Meet on the Ledge or Calvary Cross is clearly A Top Man. Fantastic guitarist too.

I can sort of understand people not liking Trout Mask Replica, it's distinctly its own thing, and probably something you either fall in love with or don't. I love it, but it took a while, whereas I had no problem immediately liking the Captain's other records. The Fall are the greatest garage group British pop music has ever produced, and I'm prepared to have a punch-up about it if necessary.

-- Ian

Now you're having a laugh...

OK, I must confess my sampling has only been via the radio, and my immediate reaction has always been 'what's all the fuss about', which of course meant I haven't been compelled to actually purchase an LP. So, if I were to give Mr. Thompson a proper listen, where to start? Is 'Action Packed' a resonable intro. or should I stay away form Best Of's?


Dan

Queen. who are the worst band in the world ever. I've been told not to take them seriously but they aren't at all funny. I've been told to listen to the guitar playing but it's one of the most horrible sounds ever recorded. A friend took me to see them live but I left after 15 minutes ( it was a free thing in Hyde park) Dreadful, dreadful music. An that's without mentioning Sun City or the horribly inapproprite We are The Champions at Live Aid. The Daily Mail as a rock band.

I've also never understood the acclaim heaped on:
Annie Lennox
Elton John
The Police.
Ughh.

Kevin

The Fall are the greatest garage group British pop music has ever produced, and I'm prepared to have a punch-up about it if necessary.

-- Ian
I'll see you at Alex's soon then - bring your knuckle-duster!

Elton John
The Police.




Both wrote some great songs. Andy Summers is a guitar hero.

Now you're having a laugh...

OK, I must confess my sampling has only been via the radio, and my immediate reaction has always been 'what's all the fuss about', which of course meant I haven't been compelled to actually purchase an LP. So, if I were to give Mr. Thompson a proper listen, where to start? Is 'Action Packed' a resonable intro. or should I stay away form Best Of's?


Dan

I play 'I want to see the bright lights tonight' a lot which also features Linda Thompson and also has the afore mentioned 'Cavalry Cross' on it.

The Fall are the greatest garage group British pop music has ever produced,

No lookin for a punch-up, and will get the Peel Sessions cds for further listening. As for greatest brit garage group... I woulda thought Thee Headcoates (not really a group I know) but maybe too retro for modern sensibilities.

I'll try TMR in my sleep ;) for a week at least...

Quite surprised by the The Beatles responses, they might be overrated by the Mojo editors but it seems more "on" these days to diss them than like them.

To me, they made commercial music GOOD!

Both wrote some great songs.

Agreed. Both Elton and The Police suffer in retrospect as both Elton and Sting turned out to be twunts. This shouldn’t detract from some excellent early albums by both, but sadly it is quite hard to see past it on occasion. It is all too often the problem with people / bands with over-long careers.

Tony.

Quite surprised by the The Beatles responses
I've had this argument with those particular reprobates before and they're far too gone to respond to reason :) . AlexG, for example, is a big fan of The Bay City Rollers*, so what do you expect?



* strictly speaking, this may not be true.

Excellent thread. Agree with everything written except I love The Beatles.

Nah, it's all good.

Music, that is.

Nah, it's all good.

Music, that is.
I'd mostly agree with you, with the exception of some of SSB's stuff which was clearly designed to purge those last bits of difficult-to-get-at earwax. Or to put the fear of god into naughty children.

Clearly the truth, Nick. I have bought some of SSB's recommendations especially for stripping paint, scaring kids, and shifting constipation... :-)

No lookin for a punch-up, and will get the Peel Sessions cds for further listening. As for greatest brit garage group... I woulda thought Thee Headcoates (not really a group I know) but maybe too retro for modern sensibilities.

I'll try TMR in my sleep ;) for a week at least...

Quite surprised by the The Beatles responses, they might be overrated by the Mojo editors but it seems more "on" these days to diss them than like them.

To me, they made commercial music GOOD!
Also on a medway tip, the Len Bright Combo with Wreckless Eric - classic. And The Prisoners too. The Fall are kind of in a different area, tho'.

AlexG, for example, is a big fan of The Bay City Rollers*, so what do you expect?



(*) I hope that there's a hairdressers in SF (or Cardigan) with that name. If not, someone's missing some excellent punning.

TBH I've recently bought a Led Zep album so obviously I Am Getting Old. I should think The Beatles will follow at some point.

OK, maybe not. C'mon, the jokes up, you lot don't really like them do you?

Quite surprised by the The Beatles responses, they might be overrated by the Mojo editors but it seems more "on" these days to diss them than like them.

Indeed. My view is that it's impossible not to like the Beatles if you like pop music, it's just that some people haven't realised this. Everybody loves them really.

Mr Lees, you need to be strapped to an arse-kicking machine until you repent re. The Fall.

Dan - a Thompson compilation may not be a bad place to start, provided it mainly concentrates on the 70s. Some of the later stuff is fantastic, but the records are a bit patchier. The live version of Calvary Cross on the 3 CD Watching The Dark rarities compilation is one of the greatest bits of guitar playing you'll ever hear.

-- Ian

Jeff Buckley's "Grace".

I just can't see what the fuss is all about. Is it me?

Dan - a Thompson compilation may not be a bad place to start, provided it mainly concentrates on the 70s. Some of the later stuff is fantastic, but the records are a bit patchier. The live version of Calvary Cross on the 3 CD Watching The Dark rarities compilation is one of the greatest bits of guitar playing you'll ever hear.

-- Ian
Though this might seem to be a belated and ultimately futile attempt to save my arse (to which I'm very attached), I thoroughly endorse this strategy.

XTC - English Settlement.
Bought it on recommendation many years ago.
utter pooh IMHO

Is it me?

Yes. But his live stuff is miles better, particularly when he is without a band.

OK, I'm ordering the "The Best of Richard & Linda Thompson: The Island Record Years" which has a live version of The Calvary Cross and seems to focus on the 70's.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Best_Of_Richard_&_Linda_Thompson:_The_Island_Record_Years)

"Night Comes In" and "Calvary Cross" feature extended examples of Richard's amazing guitar work.-AMG

I don't get Richard Thompson. I've seen him and have two or three albums. He's a great guitarist. And I just don't get it.

Dire Straits. Great guitar sound. The first CD ever. Nope.

Pink Floyd. I quite like Wish You Were Here. But Animals and The Wall are meaningless.

Hendrix. I really really really want to like his stuff, because he's probably still the best guitarist ever. But it bores me.

OK. Here goes. I have it and I've played it several times but I don't really get Grievous Angel by Gram Parsons. However I do like Gilded Palace of Sin by the Flying Buritto Bros and Sweatheart of the Rodeo by the Byrds.

I loved them in my teens and I still have the albums but what is so special about the Smiths. That joke really isn't funny anymore and hasn't been for a very long time.

Oh yeah, and New Order.

I'll get my coat :-)

what is so special about the Smiths.

Everything.

The Cure, on the other hand, have me befuddled.

U2 - Please won't they stop. I would rather listen to my parents have sex.

OK, I'm ordering the "The Best of Richard & Linda Thompson: The Island Record Years" which has a live version of The Calvary Cross and seems to focus on the 70's.

That looks to be an excellent compilation. Looking forward to hearing what you think. He's probably the most pessimistic and miserable lyricist in the history of music, but that's in his favour IMO.

-- Ian

Agree on the Fall. Love Animals by Floyd though, and Goldfrapp.

Don't get Zappa, or Elvis Costello, Velvet Underground, much of Van Morrision, Bitches Brew. Gabriel's overrated as is Radiohead.

Jeff Buckley's "Grace".
I "got" the live album while very very drunk a while back. Have not been able to repeat the experience. Buckley still defeats me, I'm afraid.
Nick Drake is another one - although I would happily accept defeat at the hands of Gabrielle (contd P94)

I "got" the live album while very very drunk a while back. )

Ahh, that'll be where I'm going wrong then. I'll give it a try over the next bottle of Glen Moray. Or would gin produce a better result?

Jeff Buckley I (mostly) get; Tim Buckley, though... {whoosh!}

That said, "Grace" ain't the place, at least not for me, whereas "Live at the Bataclan" and "Sketches for My Sweetheart, the Drunk" are officially the shiznit.

(And don't get me started on Leonard Cohen. Although (true story) my CEC cd player came with the previous owner's CDR copy of "Dear Heather" still in the drawer... it's, well, an ok album. I guess. I mean, it hasn't inspired me to buy a black turtleneck or anything.)

After a few beers this thread is upsetting.

Very upsetting. Trout Mask Replica is the finest musical statement ever (Matt Groening agrees). And The Fall/ Mark E Smith in this 'overatted' catagory also?! Heavens above .. these 2 have made some of the most original interesting musical statements of all time. The Fall should be seen- they make most gigs seem completely insignificant. And as for Nick Drake's guitaring defeating any musical mind.. and Gram Parsons too?! well Im a Dutchman!

I do agree with: Richard Thomson- urgh/ Radiohead- empty & overrated/ B & Sebastien- awfully twee. (Zutons- frightful; a classic example of current slew of brit dull music- oops sorry wrong thread this bit.....)

Any albums by the following seem to have bypassed me;
Bright eyes
U2
Flaming Lips
Elvis Costello
Queen
Led Zep

Probably loads more but its late and I cant think straight!

I "get" White stripes :rolleyes:
although admittedly I've only ever listened to it on an iPod, but I find it about as easy to listen to as the sound of scraping fingernails against a chalk board.

OTOH, I can relate to JW's Raconteurs.

Very upsetting. Trout Mask Replica is the finest musical statement ever (Matt Groening agrees). And Mark E Smith in this 'overatted' catagory also?! Heavens above.. these 2 have made some of the most original interesting musical statements of all time.

In my OP, I empathically said "Not get" as opposed to considering any of the artists overrated.

Why, in your opinion is TMR the "finest musical statement" and Mark E Smith "one of the most original"?

I hope that besides "outting" our various blindspots, this thread would let us make converts out one another, the evangelists guiding us heathens to the path of enlightenment, so to speak...

For example, as someone who liked the Pistols and most of PiL's work, it wasn't until I got into dub via King Tubby that the Metal Box went from my least favourite to what i consider one of the best albums of any genre in the 80s. This then led to Neu and my ongoing fascination with Krautrock.

As for Radiohead, I love their electronic work way more than their indie work, and find Kid A/Amnesiac more enjoyable than OK Computer.

White Stripes is brillant packaging, don't think they are half as "raw" as their fans think they are, other the other hand I find The Black Keys and Jon Spencer Explosion more musically interesting.

I also "get" Coldplay. ;)

As for Radiohead, I love their electronic work way more than their indie work, and find Kid A/Amnesiac more enjoyable than OK Computer.

White Stripes is brillant packaging, don't think they are half as "raw" as their fans think they are, other the other hand I find The Black Keys and Jon Spencer Explosion more musically interesting.

Well, I consider myself to be a White Stripes fan.
A couple of questions ( well, 3 ) if you don't mind.

Question 1 ) Using the 0-10 scale, just exactly how ''raw'' do you think the White Stripes actually are ?

Question 2 ) Using the 0-10 scale, just exactly how ''raw'' do you think their fans think they are ?

Question 3 ) Using the 0-10 scale which do you think is more '' raw'', the White Stripes, or an uncooked carrot ?

Well, I consider myself to be a White Stripes fan.
A couple of questions ( well, 3 ) if you don't mind.

Question 1 ) Using the 0-10 scale, just exactly how ''raw'' do you think the White Stripes actually are ?

I'd say 4 since their last 2 LPs, a 6 for their earlier stuff, an 7 would be The Black Keys or Stooges' Raw Power, an 8 would be Muddy Waters, a 9 would be Primal Scream's ACCLRTR, an 11 would be Albert Ayler.

Question 2 ) Using the 0-10 scale, just exactly how ''raw'' do you think their fans think they are ?

Can't answer that as I live in a country where western music only appeals to a minority. But from your questions, I'd assume a 7.

Question 3 ) Using the 0-10 scale which do you think is more '' raw'', the White Stripes, or an uncooked carrot ?
Uncooked carrot is 10.

just exactly how ''raw'' do you think the White Stripes actually are ?
If you mean "is it the audio equivalent of caustic soda or sulphuric acid?", then I'd give it a 9.
if you mean whether it sounds original and primal, I'd give ita 5, maybe 6

but I still don't "get" the white stripes

The Shite Wipes are possibly the most over-rated band ever, I just don't get it. He's blatantly top drawer, she can't play the drums, I mean I'm better I can hold a beat for chris' sake. He should keep the Raconteurs going, their album is worth 10 of anything the Shite Wipes have done.
I also don't get Jeff Buckley's Grace, it's alright with a few good songs on it but nothing special. I just don't understand what the fuss is about. Yes Hallelujah is a nice song, but the rest......

Yes Hallelujah is a nice song, but the rest......

Not as good as John Cale's version. Buckley's version of "Lilac Wine" on the other hand, is probably definitive.

I don't mind the White Stripes, although I think they're overpraised, like most contemporary pop music.

-- Ian

So, if I were to give Mr. Thompson a proper listen, where to start? is 'Action Packed' a resonable intro. or should I stay away form Best Of's?
As a big fan indeed, I'd recommend "Old Kit Bag" for the recent stuff, and buy "Shoot out the lights" for the Linda/Richard stuff. If you like more acoustic stuff, "Front Parlour Ballads" is decent but takes a couple of listens to 'sink in' and some people (e.g. my wife) take an instant and irreversable dislike to it. Other recommended RT stuff includes "Mock Tudor" (a great album from the late nighties) and I have to say that there are some fantastic tracks on "Action Packed", including perhaps my favourite RT song, "Beeswing" (tied with "52 VBL")...

For a great many people, it's the RT voice that puts them off. A shame, and without any doubt his voice has improved dramatically over the past 30 years or so. I now really enjoy his voice but it kept me from getting into his recorded work for a few years (that, plus the incomprehensibly bad Mitchell Froom moulded productions from the mid-eighties until Mock Tudor in '99).

Live, RT is stunning and an incomparable guitarist and if you have a musically open mind it will deliver much enjoyment; his recorded work, however, can be less accessible, but is worth the effort. Start with the works mentioned above, and then once you've got the bug you'll be ready for the likes of "Amnesia", etc.

Albums I just don't get: anything by Radiohead.

That is to say, I am not going to pronounce Radiohead as 'bad' or anything, just bewilderingly ordinary for a band cited by many as having produced some of the best albums of the past 20 years...

Zappa
Not 'getting' Zappa is akin to not 'getting' music; you need to be more specific unless you really have heard the full range of his work. His scope is so vast it's entirely possible to love one album and hate another. He covered enormous musical ground and, in a sense, to dislike or 'not get' Zappa is understandable, depending on what you heard and when.

Ferinstance, I don't get "Shut up and play your guitar" (*1) despite having it on LP, CD and the guitar transcripture book. On the other hand, "One Size Fits All" (*2) is one of my all-time favoutite albums. Equally, "The Yellow Shark" (*3) defies my enjoyment though I can appreciate its statistical density yet I always had a soft spot for the Boulez-conducted "Perfect Stranger" (*4).

I could go on, but suffice to say the ground Zappa covered means that I truly believe that, in musical terms there is something for everyone in his vast body of work. Whether or not you gel with the man's often abrasive humour, wit and acidic cynicism, and often offensive radicalism, may well cloud your acceptance of his music.

In other words, the music rocks but sometimes the words make you wanna wince...

Key:

*1: Triple album of incredibly dense polyrhthmic guitar solos, from the sublime to (most of the time) the ridiculous. Instrumental.
*2: Rock fused with humour, great hummable tunes and some of the best guitar playing ever, plus the incomparable "Sofa".
*3: Highly lauded modern classical ensemble recording cited by many as one of the great achievements of 20th century classical music.
*4: Classical arrangements of Zappa compositions, much less 'modern' and more accessible.

Albums I just don't get: anything by Radiohead.

That is to say, I am not going to pronounce Radiohead as 'bad' or anything, just bewilderingly ordinary for a band cited by many as having produced some of the best albums of the past 20 years...

Keep listening. Its impressive what they have gotten away with without alienating all their fans. They can be pretty difficult records at times, particularly Kid A and Amnesiac, but for some reason they remain popular. If someone put those out as first records I can't imagine them climbing to the heights radiohead have. The rhythms are often awkward and so is the harmony but if you can get your head round Zappa's difficult moments you should be able to get the Radiohead ones without too much trouble, afterall, they're what make things interesting:) . His lyrics are fairly cryptic too and can take a bit of thought to figure out plus he has a tendancy to mumble a bit but its all part of his style.

Zutons- frightful; a classic example of current slew of brit dull music

The first album is good, some really nice psyche tunes which set them miles apart from the rest of the radio 1 lot. Great videos too.

Hendrix. I really really really want to like his stuff, because he's probably still the best guitarist ever. But it bores me.

Bloody hell! Seriously?:o Sit and play it till you like it! Every not hendrix plays is worth 10 of most other peoples and he plays a lot of them. Everytime I listen to his records it just sounds like freedom.

I "got" the live album while very very drunk a while back.

Which one? I have pretty much all his output, if you only want one record it should be the Live At Sin-é legacy Edition. The only reason I keep Grace is for Dream Brother which is sadly ommited from the Sin-é one (possibly hadn't been written yet). He does a fair bit of the grace stuff (but better) and covers a lot of influences- his Strange Fruit cover is fantastic and Je N'en Connais Pas La Fin is beautiful. Even the monologues are worth listening to.

For example, as someone who liked the Pistols and most of PiL's work, it wasn't until I got into dub via King Tubby that the Metal Box went from my least favourite to what i consider one of the best albums of any genre in the 80s. This then led to Neu and my ongoing fascination with Krautrock.[/QUOTE]

Well said that man...

As for greatest brit garage group... I woulda thought Thee Headcoates (not really a group I know) but maybe too retro for modern sensibilities.



Bloody hell, another Billy Childish fan. That makes two of us.


Captain B

As a hardcore fan even I must admit that Trout Mask Replica can be difficult. A better place to start for those who struggle with it is Safe as Milk or Clear Spot. If you don't like these then you really don't get it.

Andy

Royce,
not getting Trout M R is a normal reaction (I loathed any more than 2 bars of any song for ages). The reason why I think its the finest album is thus: its totally original angle/ structure on blues (at heart Don Van Vliet is an awesome blues growl), its raw energy, its pure unconformity/ totally new sound, its musicianship- and its humour -it still sounds fresh 40 odd years later I think. As someone said it may creep up on you, as many a fine lp do. The Fall is just unique, as TMR is and why both are very inaccessible at first. Convention only means such music is 'difficult'. Rgds

A better place to start for those who struggle with it is Safe as Milk or Clear Spot. If you don't like these then you really don't get it.

Andy

Or Ice Cream For Crow which is what got me into them/him and also features some of Gary Lucas's finest guitar playing on Evening Bell for which he actually grew an extra finger. True story.

Royce,
not getting Trout M R is a normal reaction (I loathed any more than 2 bars of any song for ages). The reason why I think its the finest album is thus: its totally original angle/ structure on blues (at heart Don Van Vliet is an awesome blues growl), its raw energy, its pure unconformity/ totally new sound, its musicianship- and its humour -it still sounds fresh 40 odd years later I think. As someone said it may creep up on you, as many a fine lp do. The Fall is just unique, as TMR is and why both are very inaccessible at first. Convention only means such music is 'difficult'. Rgds


Sure you like them only because you are supposed to?

If there is something I like on first listen, I will listen twice; if there is nothing I like on first listen, I will not waste any more time. There are good reasons why most people don't like TMR, or the Fall come to that.

Mmmm...this thread is actually quite interesting.

Richard Thompson is amazing. The recent box set holds testomony to that. I'm sure most with eclectic tastes wopuld find something in his back catalouge to convert them. I took my girlfriend to see him in the Lyric last year. She had never heard a note played by him before and came away amazed. I think he is best heard live in the solo/acoustic mode.

You can't dislike TM Replica. Try listening to it standing on your head.

If there is something I like on first listen, I will listen twice; if there is nothing I like on first listen, I will not waste any more time. There are good reasons why most people don't like TMR, or the Fall come to that.

The flaw with that approach is that it limits you to music that can be understood immediately / very easily. Some of the music I like the most and has proven the most rewarding over the years was very challenging to begin with. I usually take something being unusual and unlike anything I’ve ever heard before to be a cue that another couple of listens is in order before forming an opinion. Instant accessibility can often indicate the derivative, unimagnative and simplistic.

Tony.

Sure you like them only because you are supposed to?

If there is something I like on first listen, I will listen twice; if there is nothing I like on first listen, I will not waste any more time. There are good reasons why most people don't like TMR, or the Fall come to that.
That's a shame, some of my most liked albums sat around a while and took a good few weeks or even months and years to really appreciate. I don't like anything I'm 'supposed to', hence the other thread about albums that I'm not supposed to like.
Trout Mask Replica has got tunes, just 3 at once. It's like Sun Ra but set in the desert instead of space.
Neu 75 took years to really, really grow on me, Metal Box is still getting better with time, I've never been a fan of OK Computer but will put it on now and again to see if I missed something.

The flaw with that approach is that it limits you to music that can be understood immediately / very easily. Some of the music I like the most and has proven the most rewarding over the years was very challenging to begin with. I usually take something being unusual and unlike anything I’ve ever heard before to be a cue that another couple of listens is in order before forming an opinion. Instant accessibility can often indicate the derivative, unimagnative and simplistic.

Tony.

My musical tastes are eclectic and a fair proportion of what I listen to could not be described as "easy". It does not take me long, as I have said, to identify what I will like. If it takes you longer, well nothing wrong with that.

Youre sure to miss out on much if you are impatient, ie only 2 listens to make your mind up.
Good music is aplenty, but great music may either grow gradually or be villified on initial listens methinks. So go dig out TMR and hate it 1st, but it just may take one awesome riff... its genuinely weird and cut-up, but its simply blues at heart.

I dunno. On the face of it, Cav's rapid decision making might seem somewhat hasty, but thinking about myself I'll often like something immediately or think that it could be a grower and persist. Equally there are albums that I've played only once, never having been tempted to play them again.

So whilst I may play some stuff a fair bit more than twice before deciding for or against, I'm probably not so far off Cav than I first thought.

I dunno. On the face of it, Cav's rapid decision making might seem somewhat hasty, but thinking about myself I'll often like something immediately or think that it could be a grower and persist.

I haven’t seen Cav’s record collection, but I know that my own would lack a lot of stuff that simply doesn’t play by conventional musical rules if I rejected stuff so fast, e.g. much 20th century classical, free jazz and obviously Beefheart’s wonderful TMR.

Tony.

My friend takes guitar lessons from Bill Harkleroad (aka Zoot Horn Rollo), who lives here in Eugene. I have passed along the gist of this discussion over TMR; the only response was a chuckle.

He's probably just recalling the mess they were in at the time :-)

Anything by The Beatles. They never matched "Pet Sounds", or even came close.

(Hi Nick)

Never "got" Tom Waits either despite several attempts.

Never "got" Tom Waits either despite several attempts.

Swordfishtrombones? Rain Dogs?

Had to snigger about Zappa's classical works being up there with the best of 20th century classical music. It made me laugh more than Zappa's attempts at humour. The odd instrumental track I can stomach.

I think metal box is an absolute classic. everything, especially lydon's vocals and jah wobble's bass, is soooo over the top.
when I listen to it, I feel like jumping up and down to the rhythm. the 45 rpm thing was a neat gimmick, but that alone means I can't dicth my Lingo for a 'Geddon ;)

OTOH, I don't get much of free jazz, charlie parker, courtney pine etc

When I don't "get" something which is a bit unusual, it usually gets put on my 'I'll listen to it again some other time' pile, and try again when I'm in a different mood. Sometimes that works, and I "get" it on the second pass.

On the more mainstream stuff which I don't like first time round, the survival rate is a lot lower.

But I keep buying new stuff, so I don't always manage to run that pile down.

I think metal box is an absolute classic. everything, especially lydon's vocals and jah wobble's bass, is soooo over the top.
when I listen to it, I feel like jumping up and down to the rhythm. the 45 rpm thing was a neat gimmick, but that alone means I can't dicth my Lingo for a 'Geddon ;)

I haven't got the actual Metal Box album, I have the 33rpm Double album version called Secong Edition. I'm still pretty sure that i still won't like it, maybe when i'm a bit older i'll try again :).


Floyds DSOTM is another that i didn't get for ages, I'd only ever owned the album on Tape though.
After that Live8 thing last summer i really enjoyed the Pink Floyd bit and thought i'd give it another go, there was also a program on TV called Classic Albums which featured DSOTM being 'dissected' into its component parts , this made my spider senses tingle a bit and so i bought the 30th Anniversery edition on vinyl. I now love it to death and play it at least once or twice per month for the last few months....

Sometimes albums that I think are great on first listen then don't hold up to too many repeated listens. An example of this is Time (The Revelator) by Gillian Welch. Sure good but not "great". Sometimes it really is those records that can leave us at first lost that we simply keep coming back to and coming back to. These are often the classics.

By the way, Swordfishtrombones is absolutely brilliant and I much prefer Safe as Milk to Trout Mask Replica

I love Tom Waits- surprised hes not been mentioned before in this 'don't get'- but Island label stuff only, its straightforward melody & humour. But Swordfish.. I cant get the 'later' stuff how ever many times- seems he got a bit too progressive & into himself and lost his humour.
Pet Sounds is no Revolver either. 'Pet sounds?!' Id prefer real pet sounds- in fact my girlfriend once said that a Radiohead song on Kid A sounded like a cow, so unimpressed was she!

lost his humour.


Try Mule Variations "Chocolate Jesus" and "What's he building" to name but two.

His simplicity comes through with "Picture in a frame" which is just wonderful.

Pet Sounds is no Revolver either.
In terms of utility, that is true. My copy of "Revolver" makes for a great combination coaster/frisbee/pizza wheel.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00000J7SS.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

I didn't get Bitches Brew.

I'm convinced it's just an album that everyone claims to love to look cool in front of the ladies.

I got Bitches Brew v quickly- it sucked. Whattuup with da afro in da tundercloud?

Bitches Brew is great, so n'er.

Bitches Brew is great, so n'er.
Yes I first heard it being played in a record shop and had to have it. A beast.

Bitches Brew is amazing! It responisble not only for influencing contemporary Jazz and Hip Hop but a large majority of Post-Rock (i.e. 90% of Thrill Jockey's catalogue).

What ladies would be impressed by Bitches Brew I really don't know!

PMSL I once had a University Psycologist do a little research on me as I happened tomention that 'Bitches Brew' was one of the few pieces of music that made me see colours coming out of the speakers!!

Browns and deep reds if I remember correctly!

I once had a University Psycologist do a little research on me as I happened tomention that 'Bitches Brew' was one of the few pieces of music that made me see colours coming out of the speakers!!

Browns and deep reds if I remember correctly!
you on superskunk??? ;)

U2 - Please won't they stop. I would rather listen to my parents have sex.

I work with a U2 nut and despite her best efforts at convincing me I remain, unconvinced. U2 pretty much stops at The Unforgettable Fire and I am sure 90% of that is because Eno managed to scrape something together out of their noodlings. Over two months while we pushed a product out of the door I had to suffer her choices on the office stereo and believe me I have tried to accept "the majesty and brilliance" of what is just an ordinary Irish equivalent of Big Country. I had already mistakenly got caught up in the frenzy of "oooh... 'that' guitar sound" the first time round and bought Boy and felt cheated, as I did with the decidedly insipid October, War was a complete waste of 40 minutes of my life. They were almost there with Under A Blood Red Sky. But hit bingo with The Unforgettable Fire (her least fave!), too late with Wide Awake In America, stalled at The Joshua Tree. Splutters back to life (sorta) on Rattle and Hum (although Bonio's cuntish side shines through)... then the soporific Achtung Baby, Zooropa, All That You Can't Leave Behind and How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb all leave me wondering why they bother getting up in the morning. I'd finally learned and can avoid them now in the stores although I shall never lose the urge to stab Bonio in the eyes with a pen whenever I see him in the magzines. Cnuts.

Anyone else? Well, the Beatles are pretty much easy listening trash. Not worth the plaudits heaped on them. Pink Floyd - basically everything with Gilmour in it. Coldplay also... Whine Whine Whine Whine. Kings of the dungheap have to be Steely ('The') Dan - basically everything they have ever done; smarmy "nod and a wink" shite which sounds like badly played Doobie Brothers. I never thought anything would be worse than Sting but Steely Dan are masters of pretentious wank.

Trout Mask Replica? You need to be on drugs to get it. Ones that replace what you hear with what you want to hear. That's also how "Stand Effects" operate BTW.

I think Bonio's help for the poor makes me see his music in a new light. NOT! Agree with that impassioned vitriol Mr Fox! The Edge always looks like he has that 'I cant beleive Im still doing this one-trick for how many years now..' look on his face, like a school exam cheat. Mind you the 1st noodlings of U2 were real passion- that was good. Its just when you have to fake it, and make half-arsed versions of previous songs for the sake of money I cant bear it.
You dont need to be on drugs for TMR.. it does help enormously mind you.

there is very very little that I actively dislike - leaving aside much chart music of course.

I found trying to enjoy the debut album by ''NEU'' a real challenge. I listened to 3 tracks from it, and feel a similar experience could be gained by recording an electric drill whilst simultaneously banging dustbin lids together .... over the top of a very melodic bassline.

I haven't given up on them yet..... nearly !!... but not quite.

Trout Mask Replica? You need to be on drugs to get it.I tried that, still didn't work...

Although I wouldn't goes as far to say that U2 are shite, I have to agree with fox's assesment of his enjoyment (or otherwise) of their albums. I was always disappointed with the hype versus what was actually on the albums.

U2's Boy is the only album of theirs that I can listen to nowadays. However it is a great example of new wave rock (or whatever the damn genre is) and still sounds as fresh today as when I first heard it. Shame they went downhill so fast - October was dull, dull, dull, dull, dull and then they turned into a bunch of total wankers!

Cheers

Rich

Bitches Brew is amazing! It responisble not only for influencing contemporary Jazz and Hip Hop but a large majority of Post-Rock

Hip Hop and Post Rock? Eh? In what way exactly?

When I was a kid I used to play in the local junior windband. When you got to the rehearsal room before the practice 50 or so kids were blowing instruments and running through scales etc really badly. THAT'S 'BITCHES BREW' THAT IS!

Jonathan

Hip Hop and Post Rock? Eh? In what way exactly?

When I was a kid I used to play in the local junior windband. When you got to the rehearsal room before the practice 50 or so kids were blowing instruments and running through scales etc really badly. THAT'S 'BITCHES BREW' THAT IS!

Jonathan

Check out Isotope 217, Squarepusher's earlier stuff, David Holmes, even parts of Entroducing... all of which shares the dynamics and tension that BB has.

I like Bitches Brew but I can see why people go gaga when its put on. If you hate BB then you would be clawing the walls with the Complete Bitches Brew Sessions -- over 4 hours of music packed onto 4 unrelentng CDs. Fab stuff.

A quick heads up for all the Beefheart fans evident on this thread: Simply Vinyl (http://www.simplyvinyl.com) currently have the enhanced 2xLP version of the good Captain’s Mirror Man for an astonishingly cheap 4 quid. I’ve ordered a copy for myself along with a few other bits and bobs that took my fancy.

Tony.

good one Tony.

Just checked it out, they also have the following - B Dylan's 'Nashville Skyline', Fairport Convention's 'Who Knows' and Underworld's 'Dubnobasswithmyheadman' all for £4!

Different genre's but classics.

Just checked it out, they also have the following - B Dylan's 'Nashville Skyline', Fairport Convention's 'Who Knows' and Underworld's 'Dubnobasswithmyheadman' all for £4!

I also took a punt on the Underworld (which I already have on CD so I'll list it in the shop when the vinyl turns up), the Fairport Convention and a King Tubby dub LP from their 180g range.

Tony.

Underworld's 'Dubnobasswithmyheadman' on Simply Vinyl is rather good.

I like Bitches Brew but I can see why people go gaga when its put on. If you hate BB then you would be clawing the walls with the Complete Bitches Brew Sessions -- over 4 hours of music packed onto 4 unrelentng CDs. Fab stuff.

Even a BB fanatic like myself find many of these "Complete Sessions" rather "medicinal", I'll probably listen once or twice throughout my entire lifetime...same goes for Let It Be Sessions and its ilk.

I try not to diss music I don't like, unless it's Pink Floyd, but what's the deal with Yo La Tengo? Tasteful but gutless VU ripoff merchants mostly, very little substance. And Sonic Youth smell a bit fishy to me, always have done.

-- Ian

I actually quite like Yo La Tengo and saw them live a couple of years ago - they are pretty good then. However, I have not listened to much VU so perhaps I should - any recommendations?
I agree with Sonic Youth - saw them supporting Neil Young in USA some time ago and Neil Young was good but Sonic Youth were really really bad. I just could not get them at all but I am clearly wrong (!?!) as quite a lot of the audience really enjoyed them.
Music is a strange dimension.
Raphael

However, I have not listened to much VU so perhaps I should - any recommendations?

The first 4 LPs (Velvet Underground and Nico aka the Banana album, White Light/White Heat, The Velvet Underground, Loaded), and Live 1969. The latter especially seems to be where YLT got most of their style from.

-- Ian

Live 1969. The latter especially seems to be where YLT got most of their style from.

-- Ian

Not heard YLT but that would appear to be a genius place to take your inspiration from.

Cheers

Rich

I don't get how anyone can classify YLT - their albums are all very different IMO.

I knew that would rattle some cages :-)

I've got about 6 YLT records, and they all sound basically like the VU to me. I don't think they're terrible or evil or anything, I just don't understand the adulation they receive.

-- Ian

Hi Ian/Sideshowbob
Wow, I know that I do occasionally waste money on random music purchases but I admire your dedication to music - you bought 6 YLT records to make sure that you do not like YLT! What on earth do you invest on someone whom you do like!
My shelves of CDs and records bow to your obviously supreme dedication.
Raphael

Miles Davis - Kind of Blue.

Absolute kack.

I'm reaching for the smite stick!!!

Hi Ian/Sideshowbob
Wow, I know that I do occasionally waste money on random music purchases but I admire your dedication to music - you bought 6 YLT records to make sure that you do not like YLT! What on earth do you invest on someone whom you do like!

Oh, if it's someone I like I buy everything :-)

The YLT thing is an aberration - people keep telling me how great their latest record is, so I buy it, and discover it's all right but no more than that. I've learned my lesson though, I won't do it again.

-- Ian

Moby Grape
Big Star

My favourite band, Diesel Park West, cite Moby Grape as a great influence, even recording a track for the Skip Spence tribute album, More Oar. They also link to Big Star's website.

So I desparetely want to like these two groups, but I just can't find anything to get my teeth into. Moby Grape seem to be rather limp and pedestrian, nothing out of the ordinary.

I can see the similarity between DPW and Big Star, and whilst I like their guitar sound, the vocal style is just too underwhelming.

I'll still keep trying because I feel I'm letting the side down, but I'm struggling.

Re. Big Star, have you heard the aborted third LP, Sister Lovers? That's fantastic, although it does feel like they're falling apart (as indeed they were).

-- Ian

Big Star are great!
Radio City and Sister Lovers are great LPs.

I don't get classical.
It's just regurgitated cover versions of music now totally out of context, played with all the emphasis moved to technique and all veneered with sickly Edwardian ideas of improvement.
IMO.
;)

Hi Ian & Sir

So far I've heard random tracks on pandora from:
Sister Lovers
Radio City
In Space

A band with a troubled history. I'll still persevere, but I'm not optiistic.

In that case, you probably just don't like 'em. The only other record you might want to hear is the first, #1 Record. The first 3 LPs are where all the good stuff is, later Big Star reunion records do nothing much for me either.

-- Ian

The Fall are the greatest garage group British pop music has ever produced, and I'm prepared to have a punch-up about it if necessary.


I'm right there with you Bob. We'll take all of you on if need be :D

The Fall have been the single greatest musical epiphany of my life. Peelie played a couple of tracks around 1984 and that was me sold for life.

As to bands I just dont get.....

Radiohead. I mean, just what is so good about that droning dirge they laughingly call music?
U2. No explanation necassary, surely?
The Magic Numbers. Why all the fuss about this band? They are terrible!
The Mars Volta. Oh, God they suck.
Sigur Ros. Bloop bloop, bleep, la la la. What?????

For those of you who don't get U2, do you get Muse?
or are you still essentially unmoved by the Bono-esque wailing voice and occasionally Edge-like guitars?

For me, there's about enough other influences for it to be interesting: Philip Glass, Placebo, Tchaikovsky, Queen (May/Roy Thomas Baker). What else do you hear?

I quite like Muse though I'm not fully convinced by their latest album. I definitely hear Queen in there and a few other influences that you mentioned. Bellamy and the boys are definitely a rare talent.

I saw them live in Belfast a year or so ago in a hall that holds around 2-3K folks. They were electrifying! One of the best gigs I've seen (and thats coming from someone who's seen Queen with Freddy twice :D).

Bands I don't get at the moment would have to include Radiohead....they were up there with the greatest then just started to churn out twaddle.
The Killers, Kaiser Chiefs, Franz Ferdinand and all the 80's copyists. TBH the likes of Orange Juice, Josef K and The Teardrop Explodes along with Echo and the Bunnymen did it a lot better!

Sheesh It's not even 9am yet and already I am ranting.

For those of you who don't get U2, do you get Muse?
or are you still essentially unmoved by the Bono-esque wailing voice and occasionally Edge-like guitars?

For me, there's about enough other influences for it to be interesting: Philip Glass, Placebo, Tchaikovsky, Queen (May/Roy Thomas Baker). What else do you hear?

I’d have never made any comparison between U2 and Muse and I wouldn’t even place them in the same genre. U2 were a pretty decent new-wave band (early Irish singles and Boy) and then settled into drab and predictable stadium rock for a decade or two and latterly have attempted (unsuccessfully IMHO) to reinvigorate themselves with technology and outside influence. Nothing there that keeps my attention.

I can’t decide whether I actually like Muse - I certainly have a lot of respect for them and would love to see them live (from watching TV footage they seem to come over far, far better live than on record). I see them firmly as a prog-rock band, to my ears they are the logical descendents to the likes of King Crimson and I agree there is a fair bit of Glass etc in their music. I suspect they are pretty well read when it comes to music history. Live footage such as their Glastonbury performance is astonishingly good, they really can deliver the goods and have to be technically one of the best live bands ever, but I’m still left with the feeling that it’s all a little too contrived, cold and detached (always the downfall of prog). Their records suffer badly from over production to my ears and sound like some very heavy handed overall compression has been applied which is a shame as any natural dynamic range seems to have been squashed out. I’ll probably take a punt on the new one though…

Tony.

I saw Muse live on the Glastonbury TV coverage a couple of years back and really liked them. The records, however, aren't nearly as good. As it happens they remind me an awful lot of Radiohead, especially the vocalist. I don't hear any U2 in them.

-- Ian

I’d have never made any comparison between U2 and Muse and I wouldn’t even place them in the same genre.
I have only heard the new album. Strangely to me, people have described their Radiohead likeness. I hear U2 and Placebo as the predominant influences on this one. Very different and one which I particularly liked was the mood and lyrics of the opening track Take a bow: "burn in hell, burn in hell...." very Catholic

Roy Thomas Baker was quite a heavy-handed producer. Responsible for those multi-tracked vocals (amongst other things) on the early Queen albums, dynamic range was not his strong point either.
I certainly have a lot of respect for them and would love to see them live Hulabaloo worth checking out?

another one I don't get is Manic Street Preachers.

Never been a fan of pomp rock like Muse or U2 since the late 80s, I find many of their lyrics unintentionally funny.

Radiohead got better as their lyrics became more oblique and buried deep into the noise.

Big Star on the other hand is great whichever way they were.

I like YLT as I can't get enough of VU's 3rd and Loaded ;) , Their wooziness in And Then Nothing Turned Itself Inside-Out is the perfect hazy sunday afternoon record

Anything by Pink Floyd post-Barrett

Kind of Blue

The entire recorded output of U2

Everything by Queen except 'You're My Best Friend'.