In an effort to preserve a piece of audio history, I have PDFed an article written by Rehdeko about their philosophy behind designing their loudspeakers. This article is very interesting and I find it to be as valuable as the literature Paul Klipsch used to publish back in the day. Please remember this article was loosely translated from French, so when they say "measurements that slice" laugh a little!

http://www.concertsoundusa.com/hifi_history.htm (the first link on the page)

For those who are not familiar with Rehdeko loudspeakers, they were a French outfit that made a line of revolutionary single driver/full range loudspeakers in the 80's and 90's.

Wow!!

Thanks for the link!

Have you ever been to Concert Sound?

The 'thoughts on music...' piece is great. I think I'm liking this 'Creston Funk' guy....

I can even forgive his 'valveophobia'.

The picture of the 'Crimson Rehdeko Setup 2003' is superb.

Thanks again.

Martin.

Yes I run the website and internet stuff in general for Creston while I do my PhD at UT Austin. I also do a lot websites for people like whetstoneaudio.com and other hifi shops.

Anyway I just thought this article was really important and people should check it out if they have time.

I guess I haven't introduced myself on the forum, I have been a long time watcher of the forum, I have owned a lot of different hifi, most of which you all talk about all time (rega, linn, naim, ATC, Crimson, DNM, Rethm, Tocaro and so on) so reading this forum has been a huge kick! If you are really bored you can check out my website at:

www.jtlopez.com

I loath PDF. ;)

I loath PDF. ;)

yeah yeah yeah.... :rolleyes:

Creston Funk...funk me what a great name.

That reminds me must change my name to Woofer Magnet.

I had some recent Crimson stuff last year...nice sound.

Would love to hear Rhedeko's.

yeah it is really hard to track down a pair of rehdekos to hear in the states. thought it can be done. The current pair creston has is being rebuilt, though you can always take a listen to Tocaro's:)

Hey Joseph

Just checked out your personal page.

That DNM-cable-as-tonearm-wire set up is crazy! LOVE it!

Concert Sound looks like such a cool store. Just the right amount of stuff to give people some choice, not too much to create confusion. Great idea. I love the T.Vs in the window.

And your personal page… I am so jealous of all the record stores you have nearby. You are a lucky guy!

Tocaro ‘speakers look really interesting. Are they still in production? If so, what’s the driver?

Cheers!

Martin.

The Tocaro drivers are hand made by Tocaro, they are currently in production, we should be recieving 12 pairs in september and yes one of those pairs will be mine.... oh yes they will be mine.... :D

Anyway, yeah I love having lots of record stores, though it makes me spend wayyyy to much money, but hey you only live once!

The Turntable mod made a huge difference, huge, I couldn't believe it worked, it was going to be a temporary solution that turned out to be an unbeatable combo.

Are you going to be using your DNM kit to drive the Tocaro?

naw I will use crimson, I have some 640's on the way and I am thinking... just thinking maybe, just maybe I will purchase a 710, though I would be broke for like the rest of my life:) But who knows, we will see how things go, until then I will use my Crimson 610.

So does anyone have feedback about the article?

Yes, Creston is one of this world's truly great guys, and the store is extremely cool. Not to be missed if anywhere near Austin.

I have previously posted raves here about my Crimson 710 and 640s, as well as the Tocaros. I still love the combo as much as ever, and I am afraid that I am out of the audiophile market and off the upgrade merry-go-round for the duration. On second thought, don't talk to Creston if you truly enjoy being a member of the component of the month club...

Norman

Norman.

So, bye bye Dyna and hello Tocaro?
If so, good on you!

So did you all ever read the article? :)

I keep asking this because I want to know what people thought about it. I have read many articles before and this one is the one that really affected the way I think about hifi.

You might get a kick out of this,

Rolf and Simone of REson; their camper van with Rehdeko drivers and DNM wiring :D

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c209/mikesae/IMG_1465.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c209/mikesae/IMG_1464.jpg

As a guest on their home, what a treat! Amazing system.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c209/mikesae/IMG_1469.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c209/mikesae/IMG_1470.jpg

Great people. Many great laughs shared over a fondue
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c209/mikesae/IMG_1575.jpg

that's crazy. did they have any rehdeko's at their place or just supravox Rethms?

Also were you able to checkout that article?? (yes I will keep asking everyone til someone answers)

Has anyone here had the chance to hear Rehdeko's or Tacaro's? I know cosmos and kuma have, anyone else?

Never got the chance. I notice KK describes them as the most evil, nasty and apalling loudspeakers he was ever forced to listen to, but who's to say. The company is no more though. Did they go bust?

A dealer I know swears by Rhedekos, but to my shame I have never had a chance to hear them myself. General consensus is that they're about the fastest speakers on the planet, but a rather 'acquired taste'...

As a guest on their home, what a treat! Amazing system.

...and what looks like a very nice record collection!

Tony.

I notice KK describes them as the most evil, nasty and apalling loudspeakers he was ever forced to listen to, but who's to say. The company is no more though. Did they go bust?

Rehdeko is no more as the founder passed away.

That KK article was published around the time I was there. It was sorta the talk of the town and a number of distributors and dealers wrote a long response basically telling KK to get bent. That article served no purpose; KK was basically spitting on Red's grave.

Perhaps he wanted to write an article badmouthing an old, discontinued product to maintain "credibility".
Or perhaps it was a sideways attack on PM, who loves Rehdekos.
If you can read German, the reply is on the reson.ch site.

yeah we (concert sound) were very upset about the article as well, it was dis tasteful what KK did.

Anyway, like Mike said Rehdeko is no longer, however there are speakers being produced in the same vein called Tocaro 40's (I probably already mentioned this).

We currently have the latest prototypes in our listening room and are speechless with the results! In theory the Tocaro's should be avaliable early fall, we shall see:)

Having to follow KK's general leaning for his sonic taste, I am not too surprised with the article, to be honest.

Whatelse is new?

I hear he's deaf. Is that true?

Ludwig,

I have downloaded the article but haven't had a chance to read it yet!

I haven't heard Rehdekos either, but i have to confess that seeing a large paper cone, a corrugated surround and the audio evil that is a twin cone, i wouldn't have high hopes of them....................

Ludwig,

I have downloaded the article but haven't had a chance to read it yet!

I haven't heard Rehdekos either, but i have to confess that seeing a large paper cone, a corrugated surround and the audio evil that is a twin cone, i wouldn't have high hopes of them....................

Ah, if only life was that simple....

I get the same feelings when I see any 'speaker with a 'state of the art' tweeter...., or 'the audio evil' that is more than one bass driver!

Now, where did I put my pipe and slippers?

Martin.

Ah, if only life was that simple....

I get the same feelings when I see any 'speaker with a 'state of the art' tweeter...., or 'the audio evil' that is more than one bass driver!

Now, where did I put my pipe and slippers?

Martin.

Yeah a lot of people think that since you have no tweeter you have no high frequencies which is the first of many misconceptions people hold against single driver loudspeakers.

Norman.

So, bye bye Dyna and hello Tocaro?
If so, good on you!

Right you are. I was really concerned about selling/shipping the Dyns, whose crates are about the size of coffins. After listing on A'gon, a guy who lives less than three miles from me bought them. We're talking Bakersfield, an audiophile's purgatory! Even though I don't contribute much to the Naim forum anymore, I still look for your postings.

Norman

So did you all ever read the article? :)

I keep asking this because I want to know what people thought about it. I have read many articles before and this one is the one that really affected the way I think about hifi.

Yes, I finally slogged all the way through it. Interesting, even ground breaking thinking on Rehd's part. After living with the Tocaros now for about 4 months, I have to agree. The Dynaudio C2s I had lived with for 3+ years are incredible "HiFi" speakers, and put out a very impressive sound. The Tocaro's paper cone with "whizzer" tweeter, however, puts out MUSIC. There is a major difference, as I have so come to appreciate. I do need to note that I was at first unimpressed with the Tocaros, and was getting ready to ship them back to Austin, when something finally clicked. They are an acquired taste, particularly after 30+ years of listening to "impressive" speakers. They do, however, speak musical truth in a totally unique way. Spending most of my formative years in the middle of an orchestra, I think I can claim to have an aural appreciation for what musical instruments sound like live.

I never had a chance to hear the Rehdeko speakers, not having any inkling about their existence until too late. However, I am extremely pleased to have access to their successor. I still don't understand Rehd's concept of making real bass without moving volumes of air, and it really seems odd that the Tocaro drivers barely move. However, they truly do make nimble, aurally accurate bass in ways that I have never heard in any other driver, and I heard literally dozens of speakers I had read great things about at the recent Stereophile Home Entertainment 2006 show in Los Angeles. I would say that the most impressive sound came from the Rethm Two speakers linked in Mike's posting above. An iPod and a Reson Rota turntable in the same photo; great stuff!

Norman

Norman

You lucky dog . I cant wait to get my pair of Tocaros. I here they are coming in September. Just a quick note to all of you out in Cyber Space
If you have a chance to call Creston ask him to do the telephone test.This
is where you can hear a pair of Tocaros against a number of very high end
speakers over the phone, the results are enteresting.
Ron

P.S dont knock it till you try it

Norman.

How many speakers have you gone through before you've settled on the Tocaro?

Norman.

How many speakers have you gone through before you've settled on the Tocaro?

I'm far from an expert on speakers, but aside from the Advent Largers I used in college/med school, I used a pair of Rogers Ls3/5As in the 80s, still pressed into service in my office system. I also had a pair of Linn Kans on Kan stands for a while in the early 90s. I then entered a drought period when I was convinced that someone I knew made good speakers in his garage, but after the boom/sizzle wore off I found that I wasn't listening much anymore. Only in retrospect do I realize that my subconscience was protecting my ears. In an effort to re-enter audiophilia as cheaply as possible, I got a pair of NHT Super Zeros in the late 90s. Don't ask me why the LS3/5As were relegated to the closet for that period of time. Again, I didn't do much listening, and didn't really realize what I was missing. My interest in audio was re-awakened about 4 years ago when I reconnected with my stereo guru in Kansas City after about a dozen years, and he put me on to a tube amp from China, which he had all of $400 in.That got the juices going, and I dusted off the LS3/5As. Soon after that, I heard the Dynaudios in Kansas City, and listened again to them in San Francisco while I had my guru friend make repeated visits back to the dealer in Kansas City to verify that they were the real deal. In that interval, I also auditioned Dali floor standers, one Audio Physic floor stander, the Sonus Faber Guarneri Homage, the Dynaudio Special 25, and even the Dynaudio Evidence Temptations. Of course at those prices, one needs to accept that most lisetning would be in the dealer's showroom. I also realized at the time that 5+ foot tall, 80# floor standers were a long term commitment, and really intended them to be my only/last major speaker purchase.

So, while I have not owned a large number of the boutique speakers, I would venture to say that I have heard a pretty good cross section of the usual suspects.

Norman

Norman

You lucky dog .

:D Oh Yeaaa

Thanks Norman.

No doubt that the DNM/Crimson/Tocaro works well as a whole.

I also found that most new speakers sound boring.

atm, I am stuck in the 80s. ;)

Thanks Norman.

No doubt that the DNM/Crimson/Tocaro works well as a whole.
. ;)

Yes, the combination definitely works synergistically. I think you would be very intrigued.

Norman

Thanks Norman.

No doubt that the DNM/Crimson/Tocaro works well as a whole.

I also found that most new speakers sound boring.

atm, I am stuck in the 80s. ;)

You know kuma, they did make rehdeko's in the 80's ;)

Lud.

That's true!

but but but.. i need bass..................:p

Where are the full range Rehdekos now?

Lud.

That's true!

but but but.. i need bass..................:p

Where are the full range Rehdekos now?

Find some Rehdeko 175's !!! They have some bass, trust me!

Has anyone had a chance to hear the Tocaro's over in Europe?

Has anyone noticed in the Winter 2000 Naim Newsletter Paul Messengers review of the new 250 vs. the old 250 he rewires his system with DNM cable and uses Rehdeko 175s?

http://www.naim-audio.com/download/newsletter_2000_winter.pdf

Has anyone here tried DNM cable or rehdeko's with their naim?

Has anyone noticed in the Winter 2000 Naim Newsletter Paul Messengers review of the new 250 vs. the old 250 he rewires his system with DNM cable and uses Rehdeko 175s?

http://www.naim-audio.com/download/newsletter_2000_winter.pdf

Has anyone here tried DNM cable or rehdeko's with their naim?

Paul still has them in his speaker store room. I saw him last week and had a meal after burning on Broadstairs beach for an afternoon. He says he never brings them out anymore (he has an enormous pair of B & Ws at the moment which sounded pretty good to me in his set up).

Paul has a good sense of humour and can be a bit of a wind up merchant (though he accuses me of being worse). The Rhedeko's were part of that and a good test as to how people approached music and Hi-Fi. I watched this game on many occassions, being part of his now defunct blind listening panel (along with at least one other person on this list :) ) for the Choice group speaker reviews.

At the end of the day someone would ask about the Rehdeko's after the group tests had finished, and a little smile would come over his face, and out they would come. On they would go and everyone would grimace, including me, as their peculiarities hit you straight in the face. After a while some people started to smile and other made excuses and left. That was it, those that stayed got hooked, they are like a mind bending drug, they change your perspective. Listen to them for an hour and put anything else on and you are missing something (music?). You want them back on, BUT as soon as you put them back on you grimace and go yuk!! until you adjust.

To sum up, a total inigma of a speaker, so brilliant as to be near genius, so irritating to be near finger nails on nylons. I see them as work in progress that never was quite fulfilled, the man was obviously a slightly mad genius. I would still love a pair for my mad moments. By the way if I remember correctly Paul used Naim cable with them whenever I listened.

Richard

The Rhedeko's were part of that and a good test as to how people approached music and Hi-Fi.
That's a pretty good way to put it.

It's interesting that he moved on to the B&W.

That's a pretty good way to put it.

It's interesting that he moved on to the B&W.

I am sure there has been lots in between. Every time I see him there is something different. The only consistent point is Naim amplification.

Richard

...as their peculiarities hit you straight in the face. After a while some people started to smile and other made excuses and left. That was it, those that stayed got hooked, they are like a mind bending drug, they change your perspective. Listen to them for an hour and put anything else on and you are missing something (music?). You want them back on, BUT as soon as you put them back on you grimace and go yuk!! until you adjust.

Richard

That pretty accurately describes my relationship with the Tocaros! Uncanny, actually.

Norman

I fondly remember listening to Rehdekos at a number of shows. They always played them very loud, and I hated the sound. But if you stood outside in the hall, they actually made a lot of sense.

I also once got to (briefly) listen to Denis Morecroft's home system, also featuring Rehdekos (175s, I think), and I didn't like them at all even though I could see what people could see in them. Ultra-fast, ultra-dry, ultra-coloured.

Weber Rehde was a kind man with a good ear and some pretty interesting ideas, but as far as I could make out he was pretty weak on mathematics, acoustics and other stuff. He designed his speakers in an intuitive, iterative process, and that will only get you so far. Richard's view of his speakers as an unfulfilled work in progress is probably about right.

Yeah, but you thought my tweeters were dodgy!

Meaning what?

They're not.

Ah.

That pretty accurately describes my relationship with the Tocaros! Uncanny, actually.

Norman

:D !!