Hi,

Help me out here, if you have the experience to do so.

I just acquired some used Naca5 cables, longer than the 2.5m or so ones I have been using, to run between my NAP140 and Rega 3.0 speakers (large older stand mounts). The cables are unterminated, but come with the Naim plugs. My dealer is encouraging me to let him put on Kimber cable bananas (for a fee, of course), instead of the Naim plugs. He says Naim are out to lunch on speaker termini -- the Kimbers, especially well soldered (as he promised they would be, and said would be better than Naim do), giving a much better connection that I will hear in focus and bass control.

So -- has anyone got a reasoned and experienced opinion on this? Is there any sonically noticeable benefit to Kimber bananas (or other non-Naim) over standard Naim plugs?

Thanks.

Richard

I haven't used Kimber plugs, but having heard what Kimber Kables do, I'd be inclined to stick with Naim plugs. Certainly in the context of NACA5 and Naim amps. That said, Naim plugs can be a bitch to solder if you don't have a powerful iron.

James

I have the same dillemma about naim plugs. My dealer actually showed them to me and asked, rhetorically, "How do they expect me to put something like this at the end of a cable?!". I have to agree, it looks pretty awkward, but perhaps I got used to seeing lots of golden shiny metal at the end of every wire:)

I, on the other hand, am tempted to go naim all the way and use them. Is it the best sollution?

If your dealer cant solder a set of Naim plugs I'd be inclined to go elsewhere. They are not at all awkward because they come apart. The cover comes off and the metal plugs push out the back. If you choose , you dont have to fit them in the body again just mark the positive one with a piece of red heat shrink . I have to agree , that a beefy soldering iron is required. I'm not a fully trained dealer and I managed to solder them easy enough.

It's not that he can't. He wouldn't because he thinks they are such low quality.

Right. My dealer says the naim plugs are junk, and that the Kimber are better -- better connection, materials, etc. Any truth to this?

Naim supply speaker plugs for a purpose,as these plugs are fitted to all their passive x-overs this seems to be the best plug for the job,whoever it's a free world we live in and if you do'nt want them use something else, it's your choice!!

Thanks Stevie A, but, um, duh it's my choice. Utterly unhelpful. I'm tooking for evidence as to which choice to make.

Perhaps with the help of a friendly dealer you would come to the conclusion you are looking for,most naim dealers have a few sets of cable and even if they do'nt i'm sure a sale or return policy would prevail?

Steve

It's not a matter of which cables to buy. I have cables. It's a matter of whether to have them terminated with Naim plugs or Kimber bananas. The dealer sure isn't going to do the work and then undo it if i decide I want it another way -- at least not without charging for the whole deal, bananas and all.

Richard,

Sorry if i worded my reply incorrectly, what i was trying to get across was the fact that any naim dealer will have a set of a5 terminated with naim plugs if you then put kimbers on your a5 the problem will be solved as you and only you will come to the conclution you're after.

Regards

Steve

Particularly if your amplifier/belief-system is Naim, I would definitely/have gone with paying good dealer to use Naim 90 degree plugs. Failing that, if you can solder well, old cleaned/new RS plugs will do splendidly. If you do not want to solder, try e.g. http://www.satcure.co.uk/accs/page13.htm

It is probably all in the mind, and in my mind Kimber is overpriced/unneccessary.

Stick with the Naim plugs. They are made of the same material as a large number of banana sockets, and they are solid pins with a wire rib to achieve a tight fit, rather than the more common split pins with bulging sides. Used with A5, they are extremely simple to solder, even if you've never even touched an iron before. A 75w iron makes it quicker, but it can be done just as easily with a smaller one.

Here's what you do:

First, beg, borrow or steal a WorkMate -- this is the key to it. Dissassemble the plug so that you have just 2 metal pins (with slotted ends), and your length of A5, and strip the insulator off the A5 to expose about 5mm (minimum -- more if you're using any heat-shrink) of conductor. If using heat-shrink, thread it onto the cable ends now, and ruck it up away from the joint. Arrange the jaws of the Workmate so that they are holding 1 pin at one end of the jaws, with its slotted end uppermost, and holding the A5 at the other end the right distance down its length for everything to line up, like this (viewed from the side):

http://homepage.mac.com/sbcsys/NACA5 soldering.jpg

The A5 copper conductor will be a good interference fit in the slot at the end of the plug pin, and will stay there.

Cut off a tiny piece of solder (about 2mm) and place on top of the A5 copper conductor in the middle of the pin slot.

Apply your your hot soldering iron to the top of the pin anywhere to achieve maximum contact area (not to the conductor), and wait. Depending on how powerful your iron is, you may need to wait a minute or two, but as soon as your tiny piece of solder melts, the joint is hot enough, and you can feed more solder into the joint from the roll -- it will flow into the conductor fibres, and you will probably end up using quite a bit of solder. Keep the iron in contact the whole time, and as soon as you can't see any copper in the pin slot (it's all turned solder-coloured -- should take about 10 secs max once it starts to melt) then withdraw both solder & iron, and let the joint cool for a few minutes without touching it.

Arrange your heat-shrink, and apply hair drier to it (if applicable).

Repeat for the other pin, then assemble the plastic parts of the plug arround the pins if desired. NB: During the process, the inside surface of the A5's insulator will melt slightly -- this neatly seals the conductor against oxidation and is no problem.

...

Actually, bottleneck, I found that it did make a difference -- I changed from Michell plugs to Naim ones (which were free) and was rather surprised. More relevantly, I made the change while my wife was out and without her knowledge. She later made a comment without being prompted -- thought I'd bought some new music. In our case, the difference was an obvious improvement, but I don't claim everyone will get this -- it's all down to context. The point is, if you already have the plugs, the cost is more or less nothing.

Ah -- you've retracted!

this thread is brilliant (and another with pics of two Naim plugs, one pro and one punter with underpowered iron).
I have borrowed a 25W soldering iron from a friend at work and was going to have a crack at doing two Naim plugs with NACA5.

is there any way I can possibly pull it off following these instructions but with only a 25W iron? I can't see myself needing a soldering iron again after this, so am not really pumped about possibly having to spend £50 on an iron for a one off use.

...if it's not going to be possible with a 25W iron who in London can do it for me for a reasonable cost? anyone know?

25W is nowhere near enough, not unless you have a heavy tip with lots of thermal mass. You should be able to buy a cheap 100W iron for much less than £50. The key to good soldering is quick heating. Anything longer than a few seconds will result in oxidised copper and a poor joint.

James

Here's a guide to go with James' excellent tip above:

NAC A4/5 - Soldering, Plugs & "F" Connection (http://forums.naim-audio.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3452929996/m/2922924807)

If you have a workbench just drill a couple of 4mm holes in the edge to hold the plugs while you solder.

The Naim plugs are a variation of the ubiquitous Deltron plug, a good cheap plug. The twinned arrangement has the advantage of a tighter fit, and of course the 90 degree entry lets the stiff cable hang neatly from the speaker.

For a Naim amp sitting on a rack, I'd rather use individual Deltons.

I found that soldering Naim plugs possible with a 25w iron, it takes a little time but it does work. More watts = less time.

I have even soldered up two pairs of 'F' plugs with my trusty 25w XS iron (on its third tip!).

I'd go for eveything RB says above; just don't hold the plugs in a pair of metal molegrips or some such thing, they'll just act as a heat sink.

Soldering Naim plugs is definitely possible with a 25W iron but its hard work, you just can't really get it hot enough all over.

My solution is to use two 25W irons at the same time, both in the same hand.

Its much better that way!

awesome responses as always, I love this site! that link is really helpful too, the pictures are great for filling in the gaps :)
I'm hoping another friend has a 25W iron so may well end up going the Two-Guns-McGraw appraoch and see how I get on.

thanks again for your help.

Hoolio