With such an enlightening "discussion" on the best British Hifi Company, I thought perhaps the issue should be extended to the best audio engineers/researchers/designers in the industry, as I feel they don't get enough recognition. Let's not kid ourselves, there really is no "best", since all personal opinion here, so it might as well simply be your favorites.

The criteria could be those who have expanded the state of our art. I don't think it should be limited just to those designers who've had the most "influence" on the industry, because that's a 'political' standard. That doesn't always identify those who've made the most significant contributions, only those who's contributions won the popularity contest, according to those voting.

And although there are many great audio engineers in Britain, I don't think it should be limited to Britain or to just one. There have been many great audio engineers in audio's history, that we may know and have great fondness and appreciation for, some still working, some retired from it. But they deserve our recognition.

With that, I nominate... Peter Belt! (surprise!). The reason obviously being, Belt is the only engineer in modern times who's contributions to audio can truly be classified as "revolutionary" (influential in the industry to some degree, but because they are far more advanced than his time, his ideas haven't won him any popularity contest!).

Some of my other favourite engineers/designers that I can think of at the moment:

* Ed Meitner (USA)

(first to address the significance of jitter in digital playback, produced unique amplification products, and the world's first platterless turntable. also, at around the same time as Peter Belt, discovered the effects of cryogenics on CDs)

* Richard Hay (UK)

(engineered the Nytech and Obelisk amps, quietly made single rail budget amps that on musical terms, pounded the living daylights out of the 5-star Rotels, Nads and Arcams of its time, but that few ever heard about)

* Arnold Sugden (not to be confused with JR Sugden) (UK)

(engineered the modest but brilliant Connoisseur turntables, that to this day, posesses some qualities not heard in units costing twenty times their current market value, also responsible for other achievements, such as to do with the 45rpm disc)

* Yves Bernard Andre (France)

(besides producing top class integrated amps, incorporated original ideas into his CD designs, such as cutting openings in the top plate for resonance control and adding stray blue light to aid the laser)

* Vince Bruzzese (Canada)

(Big Chief at Totem, more evolutionary than revolutionary, but neverthless made a lot of heads turn in the 80's by producing a pair tiny quality bookshelf speakers, the "Model One", that could be placed in front of massive floorstanders, and make you think it was the floorstanders playing the music)


* Jacob Jensen (Denmark)

(brilliantly successful at marrying art and technology, to create world-class designs with refined sound but that were fit to be displayed in museums... and were [New York's Museum of Modern Art])

* Ed Vilchur (USA)

Did not only invent the modern HiFi loudspeaker, but also made the first modern HiFi turntable that spawned an industry.

* Matti Ottala (Finland)

Strangely forgotten today, but his ideas on how to design an amplifier (TIM, DIM, IIM etc. etc.) is used in practically every amp made today.

JoahnR

Hiroyasu Kondo

Former recording engineer with Sony who went on to form Audio Note and later Kondo Sound Labs. Pioneered the use of silver cables. Designed Io cartridge, silver MC transformers and a range of amplifiers including the Ongaku, M77 Pre-amp and Gaku-Oh power amps.

Ed Vilchur (USA)

I’ll second his nomination.

What Ed did for loudspeakers and TT design was ground breaking. Thorens Ariston Linn Fons and any body who makes a suspended sub chassis TT can thank ED for doing the ground work


Douglass Self (England)

At least some one it trying to develop the “blameless amlpifier” and not rely on Audio snake Oil and Fairy dust to engineer an amplifiers sound.

*Peter Belt (UK)

-Has brought happiness to millions.

*Peter Belt (UK)

-Has brought happiness to millions.

I think the Key word for this topic is Engineer

*James Lansing
Founder of both Altec and JBL, made enormous advances in the design and methods of construction of loudspeakers.

*Peter Walker
Designer of the classic Quad amplifiers and speakers.

*Ikeda (don't know his full name)
Founder of Fidelity Research, maker of great cartridges and tonearms. One of the great developers of the MC cartridge, now almost forgotten.

*Siegfried Linkwitz
Still active. Co-inventor of the Linkwitz-Reilly crossover. Author of fantastically influential articles, responsible for placing loudspeaker and crossover design on a rational basis. Was actually an engineer at HP (now Agilent) and only did audio as a hobby. More recently (after he retired from HP), he ran a loudspeaker company, and has designed several widely admired DIY systems, mostly using Dipole principles.

Some suggestions from a slightly different perspective...

Don & Carolyn Davis (http://www.synaudcon.com/site/about.php) for starting one of the first serious programs of education in audio and acoustics (Syn-Aud-Con (http://www.synaudcon.com)).

Eugene T. Patronis (http://www.physics.gatech.edu/people/faculty/epatronis.html) who together with the Davis' significantly advanced both the measurement tools for acoustics and the science of recording studio design.

Pete Cornish (http://www.petecornish.co.uk/) without whom many contemporary musicians wouldn't have the effects they rely on for their sound.

Simon

PGAH Voigt, prolific engineer who developed horn speaker theory, and invented motional feedback for speakers amongst quite a few other things.

how about the late John Michell for his turntables and allecto amps, and tom evans of course

No one nominating Les?!

LES WOLSTENHOLME-AVONDALE AUDIO/RMS

A man who started of by fixing a friends amp,to a world class business of modification and design consultants.

Many customers from all over the world have benefitted from having their fine products upgraded Naim,Quad and Musical Fidelity being the most popular items.

Designer and inventor of world class products such as the Genesis turntable,RMS and Avondale audio loudspeakers using complex and ingenious design technology,truly world class amplification and power supplies the most famous being the APX4 and 260z power amp.

The new Episode loudspeakers,a true reference monitor and the forth-coming new turntables and tonearms,all this and more from one man!

Gentlemen you may pay homage to this great man who has treated us all to some truly wonderful products over the last twenty five years and one who for me personally has taught me a hell of a lot and has passed endless knowledge on to fellow posters throughout the years.

LES take a bow my good friend you deserve it.

Steve

Heh! Quite.

Beyond a certain level of skill and talent it's hard to say who's best, but you could certainly make a very stong case LW.

not only for his skills as an engineer , but also for his openess in passing on information and helping other bodges like myself , get the best from their HiFi for minimum expense.

Josh Stippich of Electronluv. He clearly makes THE coolest looking audio gear ever concieved by mankind. Ought to sound pretty damn good too. The prices are a kick in the nuts though.

Alan Blumlein: father of stereo (and much more)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Blumlein

Tom Dowd hands down! www.thelanguageofmusic.com

Edison?

LPSpinner wrote:

**Quote:Originally Posted by Mike Sae
Peter Belt (UK)

Has brought happiness to millions.**


*I think the Key word for this topic is Engineer*

Peter Belt is an engineer. I thought I mentioned that already.


JoahnR wrote:

*Strangely forgotten today, but his ideas on how to design an amplifier (TIM, DIM, IIM etc. etc.) is used in practically every amp made today.*

I've seen Ottala's work referenced in recent times, I think his papers are still relevent to amp designers, so I don't think he's been strangely forgotten.

*

Peter Belt is an engineer. I thought I mentioned that already.


How could any of us have missed that?

Chaps

So you seem to think by popular consensus that the BEST audio engineer in the world is either Peter Belt or LW.

Priceless.

Regards

Mick

So you seem to think by popular consensus that the BEST audio engineer in the world is either Peter Belt or LW.
So who gets your vote, Parry? Ah no, don't tell me, Roy George...!

:rolleyes:

HK

well spotted, Harry.

Lets hope the FBI are watching, I'm sure they could do with someone of such gargantuan insight.

Does one have to be a real engineer to qualify, or just lead an audio company and have it assumed by the public that you are. A number of the aformentioned are not real engineers.

HK

The entire question is frankly stupid as there are too many judgemental factors, so I am not nominating anyone.

Having said that, Roy George is responsible for the design of products which have had more impact on the Hifi world that the combined talents of the two individuals that seem to be attracting the votes.

Regards

Mick

Mick
You've missed a lot while out in Spain. The Peter Belt nominations may just be tongue in cheek!

Any votes for Roy Gandy? Gandy is an Engineer (Mechanical I think).

The RB300 was a landmark in casting technlogy in the audio world. This piece of engineering has kept the company going for over 3 decades. That says something.

zener wrote:

*Les W
not only for his skills as an engineer , but also for his openess in passing on information and helping other bodges like myself , get the best from their HiFi for minimum expense.*

That's funny. Because I was also very open and generous in passing on information and helping other "bodges" like yourself on PFM get the best from their HiFi for minimum expense (-zero- expense, actually). However, it seems I wasn't quite as welcomed as Les for my efforts. Instead, I was pelted with barbs, threatened with violence, threatenened with censorship, ridiculed, derided, scorned, mocked and asked to shut my fat trap on several occasions. And that was before anyone actually tried the ideas. If God forbid any of the so-called "bodgers" here were brave or open-minded enough to try the "bodges" and it didn't absolutely rock their world, I would probably have my house firebombed. Somehow, it seems that LesW managed to avoid this kind of hysteria. Hmmm.... what a difference an ideology makes....


bob mccluckie wrote:

*The Peter Belt nominations may just be tongue in cheek!*

No, they weren't. And these nominations are not restricted to conventional audio designs. It isn't the Nobel prize.


BradNad wrote:

*Any votes for Roy Gandy? Gandy is an Engineer (Mechanical I think).*

Fine, one vote for Roy Gandy here. But not for his plinths, and not for the fact that he doesn't believe in VTA. Another vote for Peter Belt for his pioneering extension of the isodynamic speaker principle, who's only competition at the time was the electrostatic Quad ESL.

Bitter and twisted - dedum, dedum, dedum...........

Rich

"Somehow, it seems that LesW managed to avoid this kind of hysteria."

There is a difference here. LesW makes things that hundreds of people enjoy everyday but all you make is make wind and piss.

Interesting. A Google search for "isodynamic speaker principle" yielded exactly zero hits. Talk about your far-reaching impact...

Not sure if it's cheating or not, but I vote George Fullerton and Leo Fender (although Leo wasn't an engineer).

I took this in the manner of light heartedness , its scary how uptight many internet forum users are. But Les is the only audio engineer I actually know and have met, I have his products and they are rather fine , so he does get my vote in a light hearted sort of way.
In reality its Edison every time.
PS Brunel was pretty good , alot of his stuff made a large amount of noise

It all started with faraday

kasperhauser wrote:

*Interesting. A Google search for "isodynamic speaker principle" yielded exactly zero hits. Talk about your far-reaching impact...*

Talk about not reading the initial post... I went into specific details about how nominees don't have to have "far-reaching impact"; and the reasons for that. Just for people like you, who feel a need to throw out negative criticisms like this. How sad that your knowledge of our world is entirely centered around the Google search engine...

trailblaiser wrote:

*"Somehow, it seems that LesW managed to avoid this kind of hysteria."

There is a difference here. LesW makes things that hundreds of people enjoy everyday but all you make is make wind and piss.*

Excuse me, but did I insult you at all? If not, then there's no call for you to insult me, so watch your tone. And be mindful of your quotes as well. You took a quote of mine completely out of context. Putting it back in its proper context, you'll see that I was talking about helping other tweakers ("bodgers", as I believe they are called here). That's what Les was being given credit for. I never made any claims about "making things". But since that's your criticism, what exactly do you do for "bodgers" on PFM, or what do you make in audio that "hundreds of people enjoy"? Or is this just your own "wind & piss" that you felt the need to share?

Jesus titty-fucking Christ, man, give it a rest...

Yep Faraday , thats the bloke , without him we are facked.
Hey you guys cant you spot a troll.......

How sad that your knowledge of our world is entirely centered around the Google search engine...

Excuse me, but did I insult you at all? If not, then there's no call for you to insult me, so watch your tone.

Hey you guys cant you spot a troll.......http://www.kidzworld.com/img/upload/article/a1521i2_LOTR-3_w.jpg

rock troll ... heee heeee

Douglass Self (England)
At least some one it trying to develop the ?blameless amlpifier? and not rely on Audio snake Oil and Fairy dust to engineer an amplifiers sound.

Blameless and soul-less.

Give me fairy dust any day :)

Andy.

P.S. I vote for Julian Vereker. His engineering was unusually thorough, in particular when it comes to frequently overlooked and crucially important details. It's what people like D.Self lack, real 'wood for trees' stuff.

Any votes for Roy Gandy? .

An example to us all, championing non-violent means of protest.

Tom Evans, for innovative amplifier design and some great phono stages.

I've seen Ottala's work referenced in recent times, I think his papers are still relevent to amp designers, so I don't think he's been strangely forgotten.

Good to hear that.

JohanR

I'll stick with the venerable LW, but nobody nominating Antony Michaelson either?

for inventing multitrack recording and the electric guitar i vote for les paul.

also a great comedian and humanist.


prettiest audio engineer would have to be Linns Nina , i don't know If she still works there but she was GORGEOUS!!!!!

An example to us all, championing non-violent means of protest.

Mike,

Shurely shome mishtake...wasn't that Goosey Goosey?

Regards

Terry Bateman - electronic designer of Rega

Tony Brady - designer of Onix and current Exposure products

Allen Boothroyd & Robert Stuart - founders of Meridian Audio

John Dawson - founder of Arcam Audio

Glenn Croft - founder of Croft

Jim Rogers - designer of JR149 speakers

Maurice Whatton - one of the LS3/5a BBC designers

and many more......

I think Mike Creek of Creek Audio needs a mention. I also feel Alex Nikitin who was Chief Engineer at Creek Audio needs a mention as well as he was mainly responsible for many of the modern Creek products (5350SE for example) and my lovely Cambridge Audio A3i!

A late nomination for D.E.L.Shorter, on behalf of BBC Research - without which the last 50years understanding of the acoustics and design of speakers and rooms for monitoring would not have been the same.

Whatshecalled double-barrelled, double-barrelled, of SME.

Hi Clay,

you mean Alastair Robertson-Aikman?

That's the chap. Excellent engineering, second to none.

My, you're busy on the tone controls tonight.

I blame MartinM.

you mean Alastair Robertson-Aikman?

Any relation to Troy Aikman? That guy could really engineer a scoring drive.

Thomas Edison since without recording there is no playback.
Chester W. Rice, Edward W. Kellogg, Ernst Siemens, James B. Lansing, Alan Blumlein (stereo, ribbon mics and much else).
Lagrange for the much the maths.

Les Paul...

Gilbert Briggs

Wharfdale designer

Guy Lamote/ Julian Veriker

Naims Finest


John Mitchell

with out doubt the Gentleman of Hi Fi


Sugano

The koetsu King


Stanley Kelly

Horn/compression driver designer

Saul B Marantz

Ground Breaking Valve designs


Dr Amar Bose

A man who has made a lot of money from shite!

Cheers
john

I'd like to nominate Greg Timbers, designer of most JBL loudspeakers over the past 40 years, and actually a really nice bloke to boot.

I'd like to nominate Nipper the dog (for creating the tune dem).

http://www.musikhistoriskmuseum.dk/Img/nipper_lille.jpg

Peter Bang and Svend Olufsen. And... umm... Lester Panasonic.

Ooh! You made that one up!

Karl-Heinz Luxman for his work on quantum foil-capped dissimulation theory

<strokes beard, nods approvingly>

Rod,
Lester Panasonic won the Nobel Physics Prize for his work at MIT on extra-dimensional Belty Balls and XLR Stress Geometrics

* Matti Ottala (Finland)

Strangely forgotten today, but his ideas on how to design an amplifier (TIM, DIM, IIM etc. etc.) is used in practically every amp made today.


Not by me he isn't. This is my amp...

http://www.pbase.com/jomina/image/68530769.jpg

Nice Amp Joel!!

I think David Wilson should get a mention here. Anybody who can take US$4k worth of materials and turn them into a product that sells for US$100k (and sell every pair he can make) must be, at minimum, very clever.

Oh, and Dennis Morecroft has designed some interesting kit as well.

Not by me he isn't. This is my amp...


Ah, thats a proper amp, Joel.

JohanR

I think David Wilson should get a mention here. Anybody who can take US$4k worth of materials and turn them into a product that sells for US$100k (and sell every pair he can make) must be, at minimum, very clever.


Yes, and then make the customer pay for his recreational trips around the world to install the stuff!

JohanR

Marshall Leach
Stan Curtis
John Westlake

Robert Stuart and Allen Boothroyd

I was on the point of saying that I'm astonished that he whom I am about to suggest has not so far appeared on the list - many of whom I have never heard - but then I considered that several generations have passed under the bridge since his time and the name now goes unrecognised by the mainstream cogniscenti brought up on an inferior diet, so I am not astonished after all.

For the single-handed design and development of the world's finest speaker, I nominate RONALD RACKHAM of Tannoy. That I am not alone in my respect for this man is evidenced by the prices discerning people are prepared to pay for his brainchild. A pair of 50 year old 15" Dual Concentrics recently sold on eBay for over $7,000 - that's well over two thousand quid to you, John. Do you suppose any of today's offerings will last half a century and then be worth anything if they do? I think not.

I second D E L Shorter, a clever man; so was Dr Dutton of EMI; so was Stanley Kelly - oh! the list goes on . . . .

Richard.

Howcome nobody has mentioned the engineer who was said to be the most important amp designer of U.S. ever? By some editor when the designer died. His name was David Hafler. Erno Borbely, another big name, was working for Mr. Hafler in Dynaco and later in Hafler Inc. Mr. Borbely is still living in Germany selling his amp designs in kit forms and also special components for DIY.

----

BTW Matti's surname is written Otala with one T only.. He is living not too far from my home.

But I really want to tell you about another man than Dr. Matti Otala:

In Finland we had one certain genuine world class amp designer, the grand old man. Somewhat sensationally, Dr. Otala has publicly given praise for the TIM ideas to this man as the originator. His name was Tapio M. Köykkä. This man invented (I cannot translate this word correctly!) the counterphaseamplifier (please correct!) in 1953 which was later applied throughout the world. Electro-Voice was the first asking for a licence and Westinghouse invited the man to work with them in U.S. with no success. He stayed in Finland.

Mr. Köykkä also used a specific amp design curing transient distortion from 1955 (no feedback over many amp stages) and he wrote an article about the crucial transient distortion in 1969 taking heavy critics from scientific engineers as the idea was against the accepted dogms. A bit later Mr. Matti Otala grabbed bravely this controversal idea and continued to study it and showed that Mr. Köykkä was right - the muddy sound of amps was caused by transient distortion.

If I have understood this correctly, it seems that Mr. Otala took the international fame for curing the transient distortion and made his career using it. But later at least in Finland, Mr. Otala admitted openly, that Mr. Köykkä really invented the whole idea. Mr. Köykkä was sitting on the first row in the 40th anniversary seminar of Finnish Assoc. of Acoustics when Mr. Otala started his keynote speech by nodding to Mr. Köykkä saying out loud that it was really him who originally invented the TIM phenomenon. Mr. Köykkä said later, that he had blushed then.

Mr. Köykkä also created so-called Orthoperspecta system (pat. appl. 1962 - being the mother of quadrophonic stereo) which employed a big whole range mid speaker and small high freq. side speakers working with turned phase. For instance Bang & Olufsen had to pay to Mr. Köykkä by violation of his patent in Finnish markets. Mostly Mr. Köykkä created tube amps called VOIMA. The most important model being the receiver VOIMA OP3. People keep telling it could give quite astonishing concert phenomenon with it's 3 spkrs. Later, transistor design from 1976 was called WATTRAM and finally rivalled the tubes by the creator.

We could also say that PRaT was first realised by this man. He kept talking about the leading edge at least from the 60's. He geniously showed how important the leading edge is by playing a tape wrong way. Exactly the same information looses all it's intensity, when it is played backwards. And still there is everything. Only when genuine transient start a chord, the music has it's original power (!).

He also said that measuring an amp by a sinewave is like testing a camera by shooting a white screen. And squarewave is the worst measuring signal, he said, by masking the problems. He insisted testing with information instead and appreciated measuring IM distortion.

Mr. Köykkä was a real character being in his own spheres when not too many understood hifi too well. He gave demos using classical music from vinyls in the backroom of his workshop in Helsinki. His company was called Voimaradio. And he was telling people in 60's and 70's that speakers don't spoil music but amps do. Thus the speakers he did use were truly simple and primitive.

This man invented many things. Also the multispark idea for car engines for lower fuel consumption. So the Alfa Romeo's Twinspark etc. is originally from his brains.

Here's Tapio M. Köykkä with his VOIMA OP3 receiver (chip tuner, transistor pre, tube power amps):

http://www.kolumbus.fi/epap/voimaradio/hifi/hifi_sini.jpg

http://www.kolumbus.fi/epap/voimaradio/kuvat/tapio.jpg

Oz

A pair of 50 year old 15" Dual Concentrics recently sold on eBay for over $7,000 - that's well over two thousand quid to you, John. Do you suppose any of today's offerings will last half a century and then be worth anything if they do? I think not.
Richard.

Correction - at today's exchange rate of 1,83:1 this amounts to 3,825GBP which rather amplifies my point, don't you think?

Off to put new batteries in the calculator.

Richard.

As an aside which is likely to be of interest to very few, for a time, D E L Shorter's principal assistant at the BBC was one Jack Houlgate who had preceded Ronnie Rackham in charge of R & D at Tannoy.

Ivor Tiefenbrun and Julian Vereker

Together they were good... they were very very good

Or so they would have you believe.

Out of interest, what were their contributions to the advancement of audio replay and how have their acheivments shaped competitor's products over the past quarter of a century?

Or so they would have you beleive.

Out of interest, what were their contributions to the advancement of audio replay and how have their achievments shaped competitor's products over the past quarter of a century?

For what it is worth - a few issues ago there was a booklet supplied along with HFC called "HI-FI that rocked the world - The 50 greatest hi-fi components of all time!".

As the title clearly states - in it were the components that (supposedly) made the biggest impact on hi-fi - as you say "achivements that shaped competitor's products over the past quarter of the century".

Both Linn and Naim were high on the list (LP12 nr.1 and Naim nr. 13 & 47).

Ill quote a few sentences: "...In those days all amps allegedly sounded the same, so what was the point? Improving source components slowly convinced the industry that amps did sound different, and that tone controls were a bad thing... ...Naim Audio can take much credit for introducing minimalism and turning people on to the idea of amplifier sound quality, but the NAC12/NAP160 combo incorporated numerous other innovations. Outboard preamp power supplies, star-earthing, modular interchangeable MM/MC phono stages and 'passive' phono stage equalisation have all subsequently found numerous imitators elsewhere..."

Goes on for Linn.

You may say that the list and it's ranking is BS - but I doubt it you could deny what's written in there...

FWIW Vrazji, HFN had a somewhat more relevent article titles 50 most important Audio pioneers a few issues ago.

Ivor was grudgingly admitted at no.50 ("In hawking his Linn LP12 turntable, he created a mindset that, to this day, affects the way hifi is demonstrated and sold; at the same time, he turned the bulk of the British audio press into a bunch of brain dead parrots").

Julian didn't make the list at all.

Merlin, as I've said I'm not taking that list for a definite (and I most certainly don't agree with the ranking!). I've happened to buy that HFC just because the title intrigued me - normally I don't buy ANY hi-fi magazines at all.

Claiming which article is more relevant is a bit of a long reach, don't you think - after all both were written by hi-fi critics in the end.

What I'm trying to say is that statements written in HFC have some truth in them - I'm not saying that Ivor or Julian are The best audio engineers, I'm just trying to answer your query on how they've impacted on the audio scene / other manufacturers... and based on what is written, IMHO they did...

Mind I'm not saying here that their products are the best or anything...

Quite amusing though how you've jumped on those two mentioned, while there were xy names mentioned before - surely you don't claim each and every one of them changed the history of hi-fi altogether?

I guess I've jumped on those two because I cannot see how they have advanced audio replay, in fact I feel they acheived quite the opposite in the UK. I would categorise both of them as wonderful marketing gurus - not as significant audio engineers. Both took existing designs and built them to a higher standard. To my knowledge, no one has taken their work and used it as the basis for their designs since which suggests to me that others found better solutions. Happy to be proved wrong on that one though.

My personal belief is that their marketing alliance set the UK hifi industry back in relation to the rest of the world. We are only now coming out of the dark ages but, just like the British car industry, our audio companies are fighting a rear guard action against the might of global competition. To believe we still lead the world is simply nostalgia I'm afraid, as my recent trip to Tokyo demonstrated all to clearly. Rant over!

ivor was certainly a pioneer and innovator, the idea that the front end comes first flew in the face of accepted theory and ivor had to fight very ingrained and established ideas.

that said compared to my first vote (les paul) and the likes of alan blumlein he does pale in to insignificance.

that said the true pioneers of audio did their work when there was much still to be discovered. These days it seems that most roads have already been well trodden.

Nobody did it all on their own. The successful ones all had a group of talented people helping to get them there. Sometimes the background people actually did all the work. Take the case of Mr. Yves Bernard Andre of YBA. He claims to have designed everything the company has ever produced, but people behind the scenes will tell you differently. Apparently he has designed precious little, but is a control freak and won't give any credit to any of his (ex) staff, most of whom have left to start other companies like Audiomat, Vecteur, and a few others.

My ears tell me Stewart Tyler is another one. - Clever bugger.

Regards

Lee

"how have their acheivments shaped competitor's products over the past quarter of a century?"

Ask Les. Who'd have cared about a application-book circuit, as some might put it, if someone couldn't coax something extraordinary out of it...?

Why haven’t anybody mentioned Stig Carlsson?
His ortho-acoustic speakers (example OA50, 51 and 52) must render a place on this thread. :)

Good point Linn nut!

Oz

John Curl.

Engineer. Designer of the Mark Levinson ML2 and JC1-AC, that's maybe why the JC1 is called JC1 :) Tom Colangelo modified John's designed, so the names changed from JC to ML1. John Curl designed for Levinson, Dennisen, Parasound & others. Take a look at his bio.

http://www.marklev.com/history/CURL_BIO.jpg

He owns the US patent US4035737: Low noise amplifier

Now at Parasound.

He was the man that Bob (now Robert) Stuart told me in 1976 was one of the few audio engineers that he true admired and respected.

A vote for Richard Shahinian. Musician and phisisc, who designed the legendary Harman Citation speaker and later he was the founder of the Shahinian Acoustics.
One of the greatest designer of the audio history!

Naotake Hayashi his son Takeshi Hayashi for the Stax electrostatic headphones, particularly the Lambda and Sigma models.

There's an article on the history of the brand from Hifi Choice magazine March 2001 here:
http://www.audiocircuit.com/A-HTML/AA-Structure-STR/Content-CON/905-STR-CON_Brand___-A01.php?Code=STA&Circuitcode=911

Nick

Neville Theile and Richard Small...

Paul Klipsch - inventor of the corner horn and basically efficient speakers.

The KlipschHorn is actually the oldest speaker in production - its first iteration was, I think, in 1949 give or take a couple of years.

The Heresy - which is being discussed in another part of this forum was developed a couple of years later - originally as a centre channel between a stereo pair.

You could, therefore add the idea of surround sound to his many achievements - in 1951!!!

Also invented a little button with "BullShit" written on it - gotta like a man that thinks like that.

"what this country needs is a good 5 watt amp."

A famous paraphrase of the old 5 cent cigar line - and a marvelous marketing device.

I vote for the Baron,Tim de Paravicini.An allround genius involved in audio research and design. The " balanced bridge mode " and the " enhanced triode
mode " circuits are just two of a host of innovative ideas attributed to him ! His EAR products are truly original and are proof his theories !!

The Heresy - which is being discussed in another part of this forum was developed a couple of years later - originally as a centre channel between a stereo pair.


I have understood that very many "Heresy" where sold to American churches!

The original Klipchorns is one of the speakers I would buy if I was filthy rich.

JohanR

http://www.aracnet.com/~bart/bnl2/aesobit.html

may very well be the father of the modern low

frequency loudspeaker-


malcom hawksford too

and of course

http://www10.big.or.jp/~dh/sakuma/index.html

His name was Tapio M. Köykkä. This man invented (I cannot translate this word correctly!) the counterphaseamplifier (please correct!) in 1953 which was later applied throughout the world. Electro-Voice was the first asking for a licence and Westinghouse invited the man to work with them in U.S. with no success.

Mr. Köykkä also used a specific amp design curing transient distortion from 1955 (no feedback over many amp stages) and he wrote an article about the crucial transient distortion in 1969 taking heavy critics from scientific engineers as the idea was against the accepted dogms.

Oz

This tube amplifier invented by mr. Köykkä is called in english PPP or parallel-push-pull amplifier, which is completely different than normal push-pull amplifier made by electron tubes.

The circuit schematic principle is also called circlotron in which you can find more information here:

http://circlotron.tripod.com/

Please notice also that in this page you can find original finnish patents made by mr. Köykkä in the middle of 1950's. Also in this page you can find original schematics from Electro-Voice which is not same like the original VOIMA PPP tube amplifiers, because Electro Voice used global 'long' negative feedback which was not used in mr. Köykkä's amplifiers.

Thanks very much Yrjomaki for your correcting the word! I did not know what to use but much later and did not go back and fill it in.

Now it's done. Perhaps I should go and correct it..

So, Mr. Köykkä handled the TIM distorsion already in the mid-50's by shortening the global feedback.

Oz

So, Mr. Köykkä handled the TIM distorsion already in the mid-50's by shortening the global feedback.

Oz

Yes. This is interesting. You can just imagine how difficult it was on those times to find something so difficult distortion mechanism in tube amplifiers. Without any computers or measuring instruments what we can use today.

What about Nelson Pass? Can he be so easily forgotten?

I'm going to suggest Denis Morecroft - his approach is certainly unique and the sound of his products is generally at the cutting edge of amp designs (not to mention the weird and wacky design).

Amar Bose-USA

Roy gandy-UK

J.A Michell-uk

Amar Bose-USA


Best marketing, yes. Sound, crap. Musicality, none.

Best marketing, yes. Sound, crap. Musicality, none.



Oh come on,


I must admit some of his stuff are good. This may sound silly to you, But I believe his past prouducts was better.

I'll second Greg Timbers (JBL).

Not afraid to throw some radical designs into the marketplace and most of them actually caught on. Honest about how his (and any other) speaker design pales in comparison to the "real thing". How many 70's/80's tracks have been mastered in studio running his designs?

Meridian's Bob Stuart for pioneering DSP loudspeakers. A neat idea, but I'd have to concede that these haven't spawned a great many imitators.

Bell Labs' Claude Shannon, for figuring out how to encode data digitally.

Alan Blumlein: father of stereo (and much more)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Blumlein

This would get my vote, but I'm surprised no one has suggested Thomas Edison who after all invented the first commercially viable sound recording system ... that's gotta be worth points. (I know that French fella did it first, but it wasn't viable and was forgotten) or Emile Berliner who invented the disc recording rather than cylinder, which made it possible to do cheaply.

Anyone mention Ray Dolby or Guy Fountain (Tannoy) in past posts? I think the latter has had a huge lasting influence on the loudspeaker industry.

Also Billy Woodman, who's ATC monitors are still held in high regard, even though there's huge competition now in the trend for little near fields in "bedroom" studios these days.

Anyone mentioned Richard Dunn yet ?

just himself.


another for john westlake and one for nelson Pass.

Pioneering use of silver cables ... hahahahahaha somehow I doubt engineering as a field would treat that with any credulity whatsover as a great engineering accomplishment.

What about John Westlake the deginer of the Dacapo?

Also the naim designs are copies of engineering notes published in the 60s. No original design work really so doesnt really qualify. Just like the lp12 was derived from earlier decks with little or no additional value - so Ivor is out as well.

Bjorn Erik Edvardsen pretty good too

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Acoustic_Dimension

Seconded for Nelson Pass.

I would like to add Gilad Tiefenbrun to this list. After listening to all of the new DS -players. I have to say that they are as revolutionary as the LP12 was 36 years ago.

did'nt think gilad actually was a audio designer more manager....

did'nt think gilad actually was a audio designer more manager....

Both Team Manager and designer for the DS.

i assumed it has some one else dac in it etc.

http://www.electronicstalk.com/news/wol/wol237.html

what did he actually design in it ?
thats audio bits by the way ?

The upsampler.

http://docs.linn.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Up-sampling

if he designed the upsampler he isn't a designer he's a mathematician.

Whatever...

i guess that makes the tiefenbrun clan " the best audio engineers " then.

guy r fountain for speakers, tannoy
nelson pass for solid state, pass & first watt
jean hiraga for class a, hiraga
kondo for tubes, audio note japan & kondo KSL
sugano for cartridges, koetsu


----------------
these offerred not only the superior sounding products and not only the engineering but also a unique sound philosophy

Keith Johnson
David Chesky
Kavi Alexander
Pierre Sprey
Steve Hoffman
Jim Anderson
Glyn Johns

Stan Curtis: got to grips with digital at a grass roots level sooner than anyone.

Jim Thiel: the design and build of his speakers makes most other loudspeaker companies look like amateurs.

Bob Stuart: always on the cutting edge, producing products that look great and are properly built.

Thomas Silleson: Strong vision for how his products should sound and look, the nous to make it happen, and a rare concern for supporting discontined products.

Tim de Paravicini

Thomas Silleson: Strong vision for how his products should sound and look, the nous to make it happen, and a rare concern for supporting discontined products.
Not to mention first rate products for down-to-earth prices, and utter faith in his products by way of lifetime warranties.

It's Sillesen, BTW.

James

Anybody mentioned Lord Rayleigh? Perhaps the 'Daddy' of human sound perception?

Alan Shaw (Harbeth)

Peter Belt eh? Engineering is founded on rational principles. Now if you want to talk about palmistry, psychic surgery or exorcism then I am sure there are websites to cater.
If Peter Belt worked in the fields of aviation or surgery you would not get past the pile of dead bodies, thankfully he only worked in our strange little hobby.So possible damage?- you're 30 quid worse off and feeling like a bit of a sucker.

Peter Belt eh? Engineering is founded on rational principles. Now if you want to talk about palmistry, psychic surgery or exorcism then I am sure there are websites to cater.
If Peter Belt worked in the field of surgery you would not get past the pile of dead bodies, thankfully he only worked in our strange little hobby.So possible damage?- you're30 quid worse off and feeling like a bit of a sucker.

I thought this was entertaining.

http://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/110/

Nice one!
It is of course the placebo effect- it works because you want it to work. You want it to work because-
a) you paid a hell of a lot of money for it
b) you dont want to look stupid in front of your friends
c) you are "emotionally vulnerable" and people who believe "there's one born every minute" are going to prey on you.
d) You are an audio guru!

Give me your email - you are going to make me soooo rich.

PS.
My flight's delayed (I am in the celebrated T5 -has Belt been involved in its design???) I need to get off this theme for my own sanity.

b) you dont want to look stupid in front of your friends


If we are talking Beltism, this one doesn't ring true :). If I were a Belt believer I think the last thing I'd do is tell my friends.

Arthur Khoubesserian-Pink Triangle/Funk Firm.

Colin Wonfor-Incatech/design.

If we are talking Beltism, this one doesn't ring true :). If I were a Belt believer I think the last thing I'd do is tell my friends.

I'd never heard of the guy until now but reading his stuff is actually a little disturbing/unsettling.

I'd never heard of the guy until now but reading his stuff is actually a little disturbing/unsettling.

Rather like being on the other side of the looking glass eh?

I am surprised it took 7 pages of posts before Tim de Paravicini got mentioned. He designs and manufactures the equipment we all know plus a heap of pro studio gear.
Add to that his record mastering skills, he is a serious contender.
R

Jonathan Carr (http://www.lyraconnoisseur.com/index.html)

David Berning (http://www.davidberning.com/)

Apart from Peter Walker, TdP, mentioned above I'd mention Robert Watts.....

I see nobody mention Collin Walker one of the great TT masters,
C.J. Walker 55 one of the most musical turntables.

Designed all kinds of cables.

I think this is a disappointing list and it includes too many showmen, snake oil salesmen and charlatans. One day I'll write a book and tell all the behind the scenes stuff that shows just how competent some of them were!

IMO we need to go back to the start, make a list and possibly discuss some important engineers.

James B Lansing and Western Electrical, Rice and Kellog, The engineers and designers at Murphy, Blumlein, Peter Walker, Peter Baxendell, Rupert Neve, John Lindsley-Hood, Gilbert Briggs, Geoffrey Horn (Quad's original AM and FM radios) John Bowers, Laurie Fincham, Raymond Cooke, Arthur Radford who probably produced the lowest distortion valve amps of all and the test equipment to prove it, The BBC Engineer Dept. at Kingswood Warren , Saul Marantz, the engineers at Macintosh after the war, Boothroyd Stuart for their early active speakers and many more who really did contribute something.

The last 30 years has seen little from the Audio Industry of worth except an entrenched attitude, little or no progress (compared to Pro Audio) and a heavy reliance on the subjective and the "science doesn't know everything" brigade.

Richard Hay was a salesman and David Alner, Arthur Radford's last chief engineer designed and manufactured all the Nytech stuff as he did everything for Woodside. They took the CD player design to Colloms who made a poor job of copying the Phlips instructions so Dave did that as well.

Tony Gibbs owner of www.ls-design.co.uk designed and manufactured all the REL subs for years, he designs much of the computer controlled lighting systems that are keeping the hi fi shops going as part of the installation business, he's designed numerous other hi fi products and industrial control systems and he designed and manufacturers the Naim radio (they don't see it and their bit isn't in the shops yet) for Bentley. He has a team of Software engineers and probably qualifies as one of the most able in the UK and he'd probably nominate Martin Grindrod because they have so much respect for each other.

This stuff is probably important because so much expertise is bought in now or is off the shelf from somewhere in the Far East.

Just my thoughts

Ashley

"I think this is a disappointing list and it includes too many showmen, snake oil salesmen and charlatans."

I wasn't going to join in but in support of Ashley's comment I wonder how anyone here knows who the good designers are?

Our opinions on this will be mostly be formed by the press, who certainly have little idea of how to be a good audio designer.

Ian

"I think this is a disappointing list and it includes too many showmen, snake oil salesmen and charlatans."

I wasn't going to join in but in support of Ashley's comment I wonder how anyone here knows who the good designers are?

Our opinions on this will be mostly be formed by the press, who certainly have little idea of how to be a good audio designer.

Ian

I guess if you've bought and been impressed with the product of those designers you can make a valid comment. That's just as valid to me as understanding and admiring the technical papers from some of the industry greats.

"I guess if you've bought and been impressed with the product of those designers you can make a valid comment."

Good point but you don't necessarily know who really designed that piece of equipment as that is what is spun by the press and the PR function of that company.

Of course there are exceptions like Les and Richard the Rant where they seem to be one man bands.

Ian

"I guess if you've bought and been impressed with the product of those designers you can make a valid comment."

Good point but you don't necessarily know who really designed that piece of equipment as that is what is spun by the press and the PR function of that company.

Of course there are exceptions like Les and Richard the Rant where they seem to be one man bands.

Ian

Agreed. I was thinking of people like Peter Walker, TdP or Doug Self where you can lift the lid and see the result of their hand-work, if not always in it's entirety.

Ian

Richard and Les are just guys in the industry, competent but nothing special in terms of inovation that shakes the industry.

The chances are that guys like Vereker and Walker used the efforts of others but because of them, things happened for our benefit.

Regards

Mick

Les W, for inventing a pre-amp with a remote control.

Ian

Richard and Les are just guys in the industry, competent but nothing special in terms of inovation that shakes the industry.


Regards

Mick

Per usual from lack of knowledge you talk a complete load of bollocks.

The NVA circuit is *unique* there is no other amplifer that uses it. It is configured as class AB but that is just class. It is based on three things that (at the time the circuit was developed) make it unique. 1 the input stage was based on a discrete versions of a very low noise op-amp, as the encapsulated op-amp didn't have the necessary current capability, 2 the pre driver stage is a current mirror, making set up and voltage tracking an automatic process 3 the driver stage has the current capability of a Quad output stage!! The output stage is based on high current darlingtons. No Zobel network or output filtering.

There was nothing unique about the Naim original circuit, JV wasn't a design engineer, he raced minis, I wrote about this before - it was PA amp based on a late 50's quasi complimentary circuit that was very well known. The features he used that changed the game were 1 the new torroid transformer just being developed 2 the new Darlington high current output transistors just going into production, which he totem poled on the output 3 a high current DC regulator feeding DC to the main board. The same as the NVA no Zobel network or output filtering.

Richard

You are most certainly not great, comparable to a competent mechanic maybe but not great.

99% of audiophiles could not give a tinkers cuss about the NVA circuit and never will and that is why you will be bleating here in 5 years time about dealers ripping everyone off etc because you will still be selling in low volumes.

Regards

Mick

I'm surprised anyone who just builds a bit of good hi-fi kit gets a mention as one of the 'best audio engineers' to be honest. Surely the big boys are the ones who progress human understanding of sound, perception or invent a completely new technology.

I suppose the other thing is, most of the big progressions are from groups of people or companies. Philips and Sony for example.

Richard

You are most certainly not great, comparable to a competent mechanic maybe but not great.

99% of audiophiles could not give a tinkers cuss about the NVA circuit and never will and that is why you will be bleating here in 5 years time about dealers ripping everyone off etc because you will still be selling in low volumes.

Regards

Mick

You are twisting words yet again to suit your agenda. I never said I was great, do not think I am great, I am not replying to this thread - I am replying to you because you are an *deleted expletive* and someone might believe or listen to you.

You stated - "nothing special in terms of inovation" I am showing yet again that you are wrong!

I do hope I will be supplying my friends for many many years from now.

Richard

To quote a modern expression, you really are up your own ass.

If you genuinely believe that the NVA circuit is inovative then you carry on believing it. The rest of us just regard it as something else and not at all special.

The world is full of inventors, only a few make those inventions worthwhile and with your marketing skills, the NVA is dead in the water before it starts.

I certainly would not buy shares in anything run by you.

Regards

Mick

Hiroyasu Kondo

Former recording engineer with Sony who went on to form Audio Note and later Kondo Sound Labs. Pioneered the use of silver cables. Designed Io cartridge, silver MC transformers and a range of amplifiers including the Ongaku, M77 Pre-amp and Gaku-Oh power amps.

Can`t believe that only Murray has come up with Kondo San who must surely be at the pinnacle of engineering excellence?

John Meyer of Meyer Sound.

One of the real players in pro audio sound reinforcement. The R&D these guys are into makes the hifi world look like childs play.
http://www.meyersound.com/about/patents/

Anyone who goes to good theates in the UK and (well financed) live bands has probably been listening to their gear.

In pro audio, there's alot of good gear out there now but Meyer is still regarded that little cut above the rest.

Can`t believe that only Murray has come up with Kondo San who must surely be at the pinnacle of engineering excellence?

What did he invent or develop?

Serious question BTW.

Hey you lot, according to the advert "you're nobody without a Naim", as I have 73 pieces at the last count, should I begin to think that I'm actually somebody......;)...??

Les

So you have 73 bits and all for resale, you most certainly would be a nobody without a Naim.

Love

Mick

just to expand on my two choices:

Les paul - invented the modern multi track recording studio and the electric guitar.(amongst many others)

alan blumlein - invented stereo recording and radar (amongst many others)

alan died in an air crash in WW2 whilst trying to further develop radar.

les is still playing at the iridium jazz club and is as funny as ever.

Les

So you have 73 bits and all for resale, you most certainly would be a nobody without a Naim.

Love

Mick

It would appear, trawling through the columns, that everyone and his dog is selling some Naim kit Michael. Is there a headlong rush to desert the sheepfold do you think? Do these dear folk know something that we mortals don't.? Is there any truth in the many rumours doing the rounds.? Do you have a seat at the high table and so could find out for us.?

just to expand on my two choices:

Les paul - invented the modern multi track recording studio and the electric guitar.(amongst many others)

alan blumlein - invented stereo recording and radar (amongst many others)

alan died in an air crash in WW2 whilst trying to further develop radar.

les is still playing at the iridium jazz club and is as funny as ever.

Good choices.

There are lots of serious contenders for this title, that most people have never heard of. The amazingly dull named Bob Smith, for example devised the modern compression driver with phase plug used in so, so many live sound applications. Manfred Schroeder, among other things came up with the idea of reflection phase grating diffusors used in thousands of performance areas. Bell Labs invented the electret microphone which nearly all TV reporters use.

Les

Tell me what the rumour(s) is and I will see what I can do.

The point being that Naim have certainly made you a somebody. There is nothing wrong in that but at least show some gratitude.

Regards

Mick

John Dahlquist must have had his head screwed on designing a 5 way quasi dipole 30 years ago(DQ10)

What did he invent or develop?

Serious question BTW.

The best cartridges made including the field coil powered Io Ltd (which was/is the best bar none)

The best impedance matching transformers (arguably)
The best SS pre-amplifier made (arguably) original M7
The best valve pre-amplifier made M77 (arguably)
The best interconnect & speaker cables (if you agree such things can make a difference)
Some very fine power amplifiers.
Several extremely good DACs

all of which make music a real pleasure to listen to.

And what about Arthur Radford's special transformers, his were the lowest distortion Valve amps made and he designed and manufactured the some of the best audio test equipment of its day too. Many Japanese companies bought it too!

And for the best transformers today I'd suggest Jensen are outstanding.

Ash

Tim de Paravicini
Yes sir, I would add this gent to my list. Always regraded him as a perfectionist of recording equipment rather than as a recording engineer. In that regard, I would include Mark Levison, too. I have two of his records on his own label. Very rare, I would imagine. Also, very good.

Robin Marshall. Former BBC Engineer & designer of many Audiomaster loudspeakers. His knowledge of the BBC LS3/5a helped Audiomaster achieve a good reputation for that particular model. Martyn Miles

In pro audio there are many good engineers for me it was a chap named Barry Porter, who I worked with in the past.

From the past H.J.Leak for the original TL12.1 with KT66's. still the best amplifiers I own.

#1 Egar Villchur #2 Peter Goldmark #3 Henry Kloss # 4 Akito Morito #5 Avery Fisher #5 Stanley Kelly #6 David Hafler #7 Saul Marantz #8 Paul Klipsh #9 Arthur Charles Haddy
#10 Alec Reeves .

Its a toss up from #1 and #2. Peter Golmark did invent 33 1/3 LP. With a new materrial called Vinylite that made finer grouves possible.

James Bongiorno, of SAE, GAS, Sumo, Ampzilla fame. A very colourful character... http://www.ampzilla2000.com/james_pictures.html

Seems to have a gift for rubbing people up the wrong way (OK not uncommon for hi-fi designers) but his comments on the industry make for very entertaining reading.

So, not necessarily "the best" but well worth remembering.

Does Roy Allison count?

Does Roy Allison count?

Does Ivor Tiefenbrun count? J. Robert Stuart ?

Alec Reeves patented pulse code modulation in 1938. He also inveted Obeo, the most accurate bombing system in world war 2.

For the category of audio engineers, then Alan Blumlein, Ray Dolby and Les Paul all mentioned above should be top of the list. All show a combined understanding of sound, acoustics, audio electronics and its application to enhancing music reproduction technology.

Arguably Nyquist and Shannon's work made much of what we listen to now possible too.

John Watkinson, who used to write a briliant regular column in "Studio Sound", was the best person to explain all impartially and keep most of the maths and science within the reach of the average reader. His books are worth a read if you care enough to do so (http://www.celticaudio.co.uk/articles/books.htm)

Neville Theile and Richard Small...

Seconded.

Also Laurie Fincham of KEF for his work on loudspeaker measurement in the late 70s/early 80s.

The hifi industry will be nothing without good recording equipement:

The founder and owner of Nagra, Stefan Kudelski did a great work:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Kudelski
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagra

The founder of Spendor - Spencer Hughes. I love the Spendor sound and many studios around the world have used them (or still using).

We will not have such good quality recordings without Willi Studer, the founder of Studer and Revox
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revox

Don't forget the best microphones - Neumann, so Georg Neumann will be also on my list:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Neumann_GmbH

The inventor of radio, Marconi should be also mentioned:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guglielmo_Marconi

:D

No votes for John Linsley Hood ? He did a lot of work in the 70's & 80's -
His shunt feedback phono pre amp is a classic - as are his stereo & mono amplifiers - better than the Quad current dumpers. He did a low power class A design before Nelson Pass. I bet quite a few of the aforementioned designers know of his work.

Huygens : Wave theory.

Mark Levinson, he raised construction standards and performance but above all he made highend aspirational.
Alaster Aikmen, the first real pickup arm in 1959.

Ivor Tiefenbrun "LINN" went out and bought a turntable and was amazed how badly built and how it sounded better when taken out of the room. Having access to a machine shop set about to build a proper bearing with help from the A&R, 3-point suspension. LINN was born. Hence the Sondek, the most respected table on the planet in some circles. He invented the "garbage in, garbage out" analogy as we come to accept as music lovers.

Julian Vereker, his original inspiration continues to motivate Naim, its people and its designs.

Roy Gandy "rega" maker of the first real affordable TT and the best selling real arms the 300 and 250 on the planet.

Dan D'Agostino "KRELL" the first commercial amp that was stable to 1ohm, it coud drive Apogee.

Peter James Walker "QUAD" The electrostatic KING.

Noel Lee the monster of cable as we know it.

All of them minnows by comparison

George Martin is best remembered as the producer of most of the Beatles' recordings from 1962 through 1969

Jacques Barriere " Jack of all trades master of some" inventer of the proper set up of the lazy boy recliner in conjunction with 2 channal HI-FI.

And some french people, the youngest well known in UK is also my friend....
Guy Lamotte for original designs when he was working for Naim :
Aro tonearm, NAT01 Tuner, elctrostatic FL1 speakers.... and he was also involved in the Armagedon power supply for the LP12
Joseph Léon, founder of Elipson loudspeakers
André Charlin for many inventions in music replay, see there : http://www.svalander.se/charlin/ACbioeng.htm
Jacques

Ivor Tiefenbrun "LINN" went out and bought a turntable and was amazed how badly built and how it sounded better when taken out of the room. Having access to a machine shop ....

...and an Ariston RD11.

Actually I have seen an Ariston RD11 in the flesh and seriously the LP12 is a total rip.

Actually I have seen an Ariston RD11 in the flesh and seriously the LP12 is a total rip.

Oh Yes the white Ariston, the other Scottish TT. The suspension bounce like 75 Ford Pinto. I preferred the sound of Systemdek back then. Both are now gone to our land fills.

The LP12 has always followed where the Ariston led.

http://www.vinyldisc.co.uk/isitlinn.htm

I think the LP12 is a triumph of opportunism & marketing, rather than engineering. But it's a good enough record deck.

The A&R pic looks like a LP 12 to me

http://www.johnsweather.com/Turntable/DSC00093.JPG

Ivor Tiefenbrun "LINN" went out and bought a turntable and was amazed how badly built and how it sounded better when taken out of the room. Having access to a machine shop set about to build a proper bearing with help from the A&R, 3-point suspension. LINN was born. Hence the Sondek, the most respected table on the planet in some circles. He invented the "garbage in, garbage out" analogy as we come to accept as music lovers.



http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh107/pure_sound/AristonRD111972.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh107/pure_sound/AristonBottom1972.jpg


;)

The A&R pic looks like a LP 12 to me

http://www.johnsweather.com/Turntable/DSC00093.JPG

Not that much like an LP12. The RD11 on the other hand.....

According to many sources first LP12 was a copy of Thorens TD-150:

http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/hfw/oldeworldehtml/thorenstd150.html

Sorry Ivor Tiefenbrun, you are not on my list ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linn_Products#Origins

"Linn began as an offshoot of Castle Precision Engineering (Glasgow) Ltd., a company now specialising in CNC machining, and many of the methods and processes of precision engineering form the philosophy behind the production of Linn's audio components. It was founded in 1973 by Ivor Tiefenbrun to produce the Sondek LP12 turntable, which utilises a suspended sub-chassis and an "innovative single-point platter bearing" machined to extremely tight tolerances. Suspending the platter- and tonearm-bearing subchassis from springs, an innovation pioneered by the US company Acoustic Research, was extremely efficient in isolating the system from loudspeaker and floor-induced acoustic feedback. The Sondek's subsequent success was also instrumental in reestablishing the superiority of belt-driven turntables, which were then thought to be old-fashioned compared with the supposedly more modern direct-driven ones.

Hamish Robertson designed the Ariston RD11 in 1971 with Castle Precision Engineering Ltd machining many of the parts. Robertson left Ariston, which had been taken over by Dunlop Westayr Ltd and reorganised as Ariston Audio Ltd. In February 1973 Linn Products Ltd. was formed to sell turntables made by Castle Precision Engineering. This was officially announced in an advertisement in Hi-Fi News & Record Review, with the following text: "The turntable previously available under the name Ariston RD11 is now available under the name Linn LP12."[1] There were claims, and even patent litigation at the time, that the first Linn Sondek LP12 was a carbon copy of the RD11, and many parts interchangeable.[2]."


Hmmmmmmm.

Not that much like an LP12. The RD11 on the other hand.....

The A&R was the first 3 point way back in 1958, when the Aristons and the linns were not even thought of. Yes the Ariston is a Linn i added an article some threads back.

There is doubt the linn is not an original design but it is a perfected one for a price. The marketing was beyond reproach.

There is doubt the linn is not an original design but it is a perfected one for a price. The marketing was beyond reproach.

"Perfected"? :o Not even remotely. More like very, very, polished turd.

HK

The entire question is frankly stupid as there are too many judgemental factors, so I am not nominating anyone.

Having said that, Roy George is responsible for the design of products which have had more impact on the Hifi world that the combined talents of the two individuals that seem to be attracting the votes.

Regards

Mick
Roy is a superb engineer and a hell of a nice bloke.

Me neither but has Marshall Leach of Georgia Tech been mentioned for the "Low Tim" amp? I've got a pair of original LSR&D Superamps I would not part with.

Don't people get bored of trolling out the old ariston vs linn argument.

Much more recently rega took a much closer copy of ackroyds approach to speaker design.

I have read through this thread and I simply cannot believe that one of the godfathers of hifi, Bill Johnson of Audio Research Corp has not had a mention!
I am proud to rectify this here and now and expect you all to be thoroughly ashamed for his omission.
http://www.audioresearch.com/message.html