At the risk of starting another Linn thread and thus seemingly making their world take over complete; I was just wondering....

If I was going to dip my toes into linn amplification (secondhand of course) what is the cheapest way of coming by a Linn amp (shoebox format, not an Intek, Pretek etc.) I'm thinking in the format of the Majik, LK1, LK2 etc.

I've seen a few on e-bay, there's a cheap LK1 pre amp on e-pay but I gather these are very old now and I don't fancy asking about with XLR's (unless they come with it).

What about a Wakonda and a cheap Linn power (no idea here??)? Is the Majik any good as an integrated? Are any remote control, this would be nice.
And what should I pay? Don't get too excited it's only for the second system. At the moment that has a Rotel Pre/Power in it (RTC-850L tuner/pre and RB-870BX power).

It's not to drive anything complicated (not the Kabers for instance) probably something medium size standmount like Tannoy 607's, or at a pinch Linn Index II's etc. From memory, most of the the Linn pre/power amps always sound a bit "dry" but I don't mind that as long they're fast and interesting enough, which they've always seemed to be.

Cheers

Any of the amps mentioned would suffice,just remember most of them can't now be officialy serviced,that notwithstanding i can recommend the combo of LK1/Dirak/280/spark as being excellent and in todays market can be had for peanuts.

The little majik integrateds are good also,the phono stage version being great if needed.

Good luck with your purchase i'm sure you'll enjoy whatever you choose.

Keep away from the LK1!
Although sonically still very nice, they are now dying in large numbers. Some PCB/electronic deterioration as I understand and absolutely fatal.

LK240 Monos are a steal, but not as refined as the other amps at the time. Plenty of grunt though!

Kairn (Pre): Price varies depending upon powersupply (different switch mode generations). Phono is excellent.

Waconda (Pre): Can be had for silly money. Phono branch is very good!

LK100: Very sturdy, will last forever. Newer equivalent is LK85.

Majik integrated basically is a Waconda Pre with stripped down Lk100 inside. If you're looking for a cheap&easy solution, this is it!!! Doesn't sound bad either.

All Pres come with remote control, however not always equipped with Phono!

Give us a budget !!
I too would avoid a LK1....
MajikII integrated for a one box solution, look out for one with a Kudos tuner Sneaky module ...if radio interests you..

Kolektor pre + LK100 or LK85 ..... cheapest pre power also an older LK280's power go for peanuts...(uses XLR)

Then perhaps a Wakonda + LK 140 .... 140 make about 400-500GBP
or Kolektor + Lk140 ........ Hey the options are endless...

Then your are into the Kairn or 5103's

Speakers, IndexII bargain basement price..... or Tukans (can sound stunning) or most peoples "favourite" ;) the Keilidh ..about £220

An LK280 should come with phono-XLR cables. An LK1 should come with XLR-XLR. A free LK1 might be good, I think the issues are with the micro-controller board rather than the analogue bits. The downside to the LK1 is that it doesn't go quiet enough with (for instance) CD and you need specialist cables for your sources. So only if it's free. The schematics etc are available, so if you're into DIY....

The Kairn is very good and very cheap.

I don't know about Wakonda and the other one. Not as good as a Kairn I guess.

The LK280 (I'd probably not bother with the previous LK2/LK275 incarnations) is a very good amp, especially into 4 Ohm loads like Kabers...

LK100s are cheap and OK. You can fit Kaber Aktiv cards to them, which is nice.

The LK85 and LK140 are 'chip amps' in place of the discrete technology of the LK100. I suspect all three are on a plane.

Klout is an upgraded LK280, still relatively expensive S/H but you probably can't go wrong with one.

Paul

I'd put the order of performance something like this.. unsure about the LK1+Dirak, around the Wakonda area I guess.
Kolektor > Wakonda > Kairn > AV5103 > Exotik(New Majik) > Kinos > Kisto > K Kontrol
LK100 & LK85 > LK280> LK140 > LK280/Spark> AV5125 > Chakra Cx100 > Klout > 2250 > Chakra Cx200 > Klimax Chakra Twin > Klimax Solo

i'm running an lk1/dirak and 2 lk280's into martin logans, sounds fantastic, lots of control and superb grip. the logans are 4ohm nominal and dip to 1.7 ohm on the panel, so they need a decent amount of current to control them. the lk280's handle them with consumate ease.
the lk1 has a superb phono stage.(mm & mc and is very quiet), and with the dirak, is better than a kairn to these ears.
my advice is go for it, and as the lk280 is not that far behind a klout in performance (the best power linn has produced imo) they are a steal s/h, and sooooooo much better than the nap250.

Stay away from LK1. Its a faulty design that should never been released on the market if the manuacturer had some decency. I have a broke LK1+Dirak somewhere here. 4 services and it broke a 5th time. During 8 months. I'm never going near electronics from Linn again. LP12 yes - but nothing else.

Thanks Gents.

Well, it's interesting about the LK280 because I've heard one of those and liked it. As for budget, I was looking to get a pre and power for about 200-250 quid. I'm tempted to get a reasonable pre and a makeweight power if necessary for now, and then if the budget needs expanding, for a better power later on I'll do that then. If on the other hand I can only afford a majik now, then I guess I could use that as the pre and still buy a bigger better power amp later.

I didn't realise that the LK1 had reliability issues, even if it is only the logic control side I imagine it's all surface mount and a pain to play with....

Thanks for all your inputs

Cheers

Also be aware that there is / was a product recall on the LK240, if buying second hand then make sure the power supply mods have been carried out....

I've had an LK1/Dirak for years (bought it SH form a mate who was a Linn dealer at the time) and I've had no major problems (apart from the remote dying - I use a One-for-All Mosaic now).

However, if they have reliability issues I'd agree it'd have to be cheap as getting anything Linn repaired can be v. expensive. (Cost me £60 to replace 3 capacitors in my Valhalla after one exploded quite spectactularly - physics teachers tell me it's a common problem with capacitors).

Apparently the "it doesn't go quiet enough" problem can be fixed (but I've never got around to it) by some internal jiggery pokery (if anybody has more info i'd love to hear how).

I love my LK100 power amps but keep being told they're crap by Linnophiles (I should've bought 280s) but alternatively they're better than Lk140s (so who knows?).

I remember hearing a very early LK1/LK2 combination - Linn's first electronic product - when they came out and it was too smooth and laid back for me.

Also be aware that there is / was a product recall on the LK240, if buying second hand then make sure the power supply mods have been carried out....

I bought a pair of s/h LK240's before xmas (on PF) without recall mods. Took them to a Linn dealer who sent them off to Linn for the mods-they were back to me (in brand new boxes) a week later. BTW are LK 240s the mono block equivalent of the stereo LK 140 or is there more to it than that?

The LK1 sucked, as did the Wakonda (for the money anyway). The LK280 (assuming it has decent parts so it doesn't hiss, etc) will keep up with something like a BAT preamp if you run it mono. However 80W is still 80W, no matter how you slice it, so maybe stay away from 84SPL speakers (like my Revels 22's) unless you run them mono. Then they are "just" enough. For the money, buy two, replace all the parts (if anyone still solders anymore), maybe find a spark ps if you can (never found one yet myself but I'm not dying) and spend your money on a PS Audio power cord or three. Biggest difference I've ever made on large speakers. On smaller speakers, it was going to AQ Lapis (I'm aging myself).

Anyway, don't buy them all; I'd like to buy a few more for a sub and maybe see if I can have a few extra boards to try out with a KVA toroid and like 100W. Dunno, the design is pretty complex, especially running in and out of the PS caps like it does.

Shawnn Harvey
sparkinark@yahoo.com

The Majik-I (old style/shoebox) is pretty good value IMO and a simple solution that could be upgraded with another power amp later...then new pre etc etc...

I think I tried the pre-outs of a majik with a Rotel power amp once, perhaps lower spec than yours - the majik was better on its own, in my view. I think the LK140 is regarded as a lot better than both LK100 and LK85.

Last time I was down there, Billy Vee had a couple of s/h line level Majiks for around £230 and a phone staged model for about £380 - these came with guarantees too. I've yet to see the wakonda/lk85 set up for your budget.

I did read somewhere that the later Classiks were as good if not better than the Majiks having more power, tone controls and a radio/CD built in. These tend to go for nearer £450 however.

I recently got an old Majik for a kitchen system, and while I worked out which speakers to get, hooked up my old redundant Keilidhs - I was amazed how good it all sounded, especially considering the set up was less than ideal in terms of speaker placement etc.

I would avoid the LK100, spark or not, a friend uses one to drive Kabers and it's *horrible* - very hard and dry. My twinned Quad 405s or Meridian 105s are far nicer. TBH the Meridians at least should be, they were very expensive new.

The other stuff may be very good, at the proces quoted it's tempting. I know the Klout is a good item but still expensive SH. A better bet might be a pair of 280s, prob still come in less than a Naim.

I can also second Keilidhs, lovely speakers, though some say only if active. Actually if carefully chosen 2x280+Keilidh + active X over would be relatively inexpensive, prob less than NAP250 or NAP135 passive, and my guess is it would be special indeed.

I run LK1/Dirak LK280 & have had them for some time with no issues. Before that I had a plain LK1 & then swapped to the Dirak model.
The gain mod is all I've done (simple & Linn instructions to show how) & whilst there are often reports of reliability issues here, there are also plenty of troubleshooting/maintenance/circuit diagrams etc knocking about which would cover most of the known issues if you have a problem & can DIY. For the £ they are going for now, a well looked after LK1/2 or 280 is a bargain.

To add my tupenny worth as I now have a lot of recent experience after doing a lot of ebay trading. In the last three months I have had (with current market price after)

LK1 (£150)
LK1 and Dirak (£180)
4 LK2s (£150)
Majik (without phono stage) (£200 at a squeeze)
Kairn (£300-£450 depending on power supply)
5103 (£450)
5 5105s, one with active cards for 5120 (£400)

The LK2s and the 5105s are both excellent - really really good - the latter benefit from going into standby and saving electricity automatically if not being used. I was very fortunate to pick up my 5105s mainly for much less than market price so could sell the LK2s to fund the purchase. Buying at current prices I would go for LK2s

For the pre-amps then the LK1 does sound really good and at the price cannot be bettered IMHO. If it breaks buy a new one - it is cheaper than getting Linn to fix a Kairn. I bought my 5103 for £250 so it was really a no brainer as it was so cheap. Sounds great but not a lot in it between the LK1, Kairn and 5103 as far as I am concerned. Value for money has to be the LK1. The XLRs can be bought very cheaply on ebay or you could always buy XLR to phone adaptors that go for £4 on ebay (even if you sometimes will need to alter their internal wiring - dead easy though).

I have a Majik driving my kitchen ceiling speakers (inherited with house) but as speakers are crap I cannot really comment on quality of Majik. However, I was lucky to get a mint example (poorly advertised) for £150 on ebay so you might be lucky too.

Regards
CJ

You should be able to get an LK1 for next to nothing as it was rubbish (and no longer supported by its own manufacturer).

The LK1 wasn't total rubbish, sounding better to me than the Naim offerings of the time, especially on CD - could be because the response was even more band-limited than the naim alternatives and CD players of the time had bad ultra-sonic mush coming out of them. The MC input was far quieter than the hissy Naim 323K boards too, although both are quieter than LP surface noise. They ran hot though and if left on 24/7, they were inclined to cook their mother boards after a succession of hot summers. If you have a good working one, replace the supply caps (2 x 47000uF) with 2x 10,000uF ones, which definitely improved things, unlike the Dirak, which made it worse to my ears.

Remember too, that some Linn amps tended to invert the absolute phase and this is audible on some speakers.

AFAIK its only the Pres that invert the Phase.

I know for sure the Kairn does it, and the Waconda doesn't. Not sure about the rest.

The LK1 wasn't total rubbish, sounding better to me than the Naim offerings of the time, especially on CD.

Some claim to fame that - CD back then was bloody awful.

I am happy to stick with my belief that the LK1 was junk - let history prove otherwise - oh, I see that history has already rather proven my case :D

CD sounded awful through NAIM pre-amps pre the 72, not necessarily through other, more capable designs of the period. Remember, this was the age of the 32.5 with the older filters reacting (IMO) with the nasties coming out of many CD players back then. Not every preamp or amp reacted this way and those that didn't acually sounded really good on CD.. I'm not having a go, but what was the reference to compare "awful" CD players to? An even more awful LP source made up in Glasgow a lot of the time for you and me I reckon ;).

Machines I liked at the time (mid eighties) - Sony 502es, 505es (whiter than white but no headaches), Meridian MCD-Pro and 207 (I owned these one after the other), Pioneer PD91 and CAL Tempest (sounded great at Jimmy's place) and Nakamichi OMS1e (incredibly tuneful and involving, meaty bass, half the price in the States and ignored by almost everyone as just another Japanese machine).

Things did move at a rapid pace of knots back then and the problems afflicting CD with older Naim preamps just doesn't arise nowadays I suspect and with modern filter boards and with updeated line boards the performance is taken to a different level too, as you know.

Ynwoan - LOL...it was junk. I demmed my LK-1 against a Nait 1 and promptly bought a Kairn to forget the pain;-)

Should have bought a krell KRC2 Dave. it's better than all of 'em as I recall and MUCH cheaper in the US too - I bet Krell service them if necessary as well, something Linn don't do with any of the units discussed....

You don't want me to start on Krell--especially their preamps. Horrible tizzzy things. I'd rather have ARC or C-J of the period if Naim hadn't been available.

Back to Linn though, the Kairn was OK and really what the LK-1 should have been.

AIUI the Kairn was a development of the LK1. The LK1 was of course ground breaking.

Paul

Ground breaking in topology, features, etc but not the sound. The Kairn was an immense improvement.

The phono section of the Kairn is terrific!
The line stage is rather average in my opinion.

I do love all this OTT talk of things being crap, rubbish etc when in reality it was all pretty decent kit with modest differences.

Still, I suppose it's something to talk about on a forum.

Topa-average by today's standards but pretty darn good in its day. I do agree the phono section was miles ahead though.

The LK-1 talk isn't OTT. You had to own one to really know. Everyone got suckered by its Blingness of the day. From a design standpoint, it was the starship Enterprise. Unfortunately, it couldn't meet its prime directive (better sounding, cheaper alternative to a 32/HC/135s for stimulating DMS sales.)

The LK1 wasn't total rubbish, sounding better to me than the Naim offerings of the time,

I agree, we as a dealer compared the LK1/2 combo against a 32.5/HiCap/250 on many occasions. We eventually dropped Naim as it no longer made sense to carry the line.

IIRC, even the US Linn\Naim distributor's staff was split on this one. I bought my LK1/2 to support the cause but found it quite dreadful compared to my 42/SNAPS/110 using my LP-12.

Unfortunately our dealership went with Linn so I sold my 42/110 to a customer. I left the dealership shortly thereafter--just couldn't sell products I didn't believe in anymore.

God dave, what's wrong with you man? You had a 42/Snaps/110 and call the krell tizzy? Yet you prefer the ARC's and CJ's of the period, with deliberately added distortion (apparently and audibly) to make them all cozy and "nice" sounding...

Even I'm not so extreme - ummmmm :D

At the time, I really didn't mind the LK1 and 2, once a couple of things had been sorted out. I loved the 135's, but they were prohibitively expensive and I missed the bolt up 250 I owned, which was a much sweeter toned animal than the CB version. The friend who bought my Naim stuff was a serial swapper unfortunately and he only kept it a couple of months (he bought my first immaculate Quad valve set with both tuners a few years previously and kept them a fortnight :( )

LOL...the 42/110s we received in the US sound a tad rolled-off compared to almost anything transistor based and American made. I've never heard one sound bright or hard except when the connectors got dirty or fed a crap signal from an inadequate source.