Have anyone listened to the Naim CD555 + powersupply or tryed the 555 powersupply with other Naim CD players?
I like to buy a new cd player and maybe replace my Wadia 860x with a Naim player. If I decide to do this I have to sell my Wadia to be able to by the Naim CD player so what is best to do: buy the CDX2 and 555 powersupply and then uppgrade to 555 cd player later on or buy a used CDS2 and replace the power supply with a 555ps and later uppgrade to 555 cd player?
The thing is people have told me the new 555 powersupply is a massive uppgrade for a CDX2 or CDS2 compared to a XPS2 is this true? Have anyone any experience with the new 555 cd player and the 555 powersupply.
Thank you.

whats wrong with the wadia CD player you have , if you still like it , why change , if you want to change , why have you focussed on Naim , you may want to be a bit more open minded . I have recently bought an Avondale CD3 and it is excellent.

Why do you want a Naim CD player if you haven't heard one?

Have anyone listened to the Naim CD555 + powersupply or tryed the 555 powersupply with other Naim CD players?
I like to buy a new cd player and maybe replace my Wadia 860x with a Naim player. If I decide to do this I have to sell my Wadia to be able to by the Naim CD player so what is best to do: buy the CDX2 and 555 powersupply and then uppgrade to 555 cd player later on or buy a used CDS2 and replace the power supply with a 555ps and later uppgrade to 555 cd player?
The thing is people have told me the new 555 powersupply is a massive uppgrade for a CDX2 or CDS2 compared to a XPS2 is this true? Have anyone any experience with the new 555 cd player and the 555 powersupply.
Thank you.



Yes, I have experience of them both. I was the first to have the 555PSU at home and used it with the CDX2 pointing out the benefits to be had over the XPS2.

I am not going to tell you how good I think the 555 is I am going to suggest you go to a dealer and hear the 555 for yourself. I also suggest you listen to the CDS3/555PSU and CDX2/555PSU as it comes down to budget.

Regards

PB

Have you lined up a buyer for your Wadia player?,i for one will be interested on how much you're selling it for.

What merlin said. There's a whole wide world out there...

my dad has 555 cd + ps, and it sounds ace! he had cds3 b4 and the 555 is so many miles beter it makes you think you had a pillow over your ears.

I've heard the CD 555 + PS in a 500/552/NBL system. It sounded fantastic, the best souding CD playback I've heard, with lots of a deep controlled and natural bass, on top of very clean articulation of some complex, layered music -- specifically, several tracks from Bill Frisell's "The Intercontinentals." Please note, besides the CD555 I haven't heard a lot of super-high-end cdps besides the CDS3, so don't take my word for it.

I have also tried the 555PS w/ a cdx2 and the improvement was again fantastic. The system was a 282/HC/250.2 If you feel you're compelled to go with Naim, then I think that for many, for me, the cdx2/555ps could be an end in itself. But, then the cdx2/xps2 is the best cdp I've ever owned, so again, my opinion has been formed in the cloister. Best just to home demo against your Wadia.

daniel

be carefull with the ps unit though, in my experence they vary alot from stupendous to just avg, seriously its the only naim product that is not 99.9% reliable when it comes to sounding the same.


How many have you heard to arrive at this conclusion?

I'll probably get slammed for saying this, but I wouldn't buy into a CD555 anything unless you already have an existing naim setup, love until death do you part the naim approach to sound, and have a collection of more or less rock, pop, and assorted elevator music etc and have no intention of ever buying into the available high resolution discs such as DVD-A, SACD, plus whatever will come with music on Bluray in the future etc.

In short, I have no doubt it's a very fine piece of equipment, but naim are very rooted in the 20th century with their analogue pres, with the exception of the forthcoming 'supernait' which will have an onboard DAC, and that means all their CD players are designed like fine, and very expensive, turntables, handling the signal at the earliest possible moment, in the analogue domain.

As people, plain logic and science will tell you, a digital bit is a digital bit and once it's been read correctly off the drive (no doubt a Phillips mechanisim in the CD555) or a PC computer drive, the major impediment to sound quality from the research that I've read about is jitter, or timing errors.

The easiest way to deal with that is to convert the signal into analogue at the earliest possible moment, which is what naim do, however to then keep the analogue signal 'pure' in a noisy digital environment is quite difficult, hence all the expense with isolated boards (microphonics) and very expensive interconnect cables etc.

Conversely, a digital transport using 21st century interconnect technology, with say an external DAC set up with external clocks to minimise jitter, is going to do the same job, but much simpler and much cheaper.

In my case my digital transport reads the digital bitstream, buffers it, and then feeds it on demand by the amp, via adaptive rate transfer over IEEE1394 to another internal buffer within the amp, which then clocks out that digital data, virtually jitter free.

As the amp is digital, the signal remains digital until the last possible moment, so all the expense at trying to keep an analogue signal free from noise, effects of components and potentiometers etc in the signal path, is negated at a single stroke.

I'd be very happy to pit this against a CD555/552/500 and would feel re performance we'd be talking different, not better or worse. The big difference is in cost; less than a tenth if we're talking Australian dollars.

Thats why, good as a CD555 no doubt is, I wouldn't personally be going there. I have every confidence you can do as well, allowing for personal taste re differences in presentation, for one hell of a lot less money.

Good luck with it & happy new year!

Best Regards

John... :)

I think I'd agree; there's not point in trying to use a 555, CD or p/supply, through less than a 552/300.

That said, I personally was less than whelmed by the 555 when Naim demonstrated it last year. May have been the room etc. Just sounded all a bit bland - but very brilliantly bland, mind you.

And are there really no other CD players out there at less than £14000 worth considering? I think there might be... It's just getting to hear the damn things that's the problem.

Bring back comparators and Lasky's I say!

Buy Naim 'you now it makes sense'.

Why do you want a Naim CD player if you haven't heard one?


I want a Naim cd player because I like the way they sound and I have heard most of their players to date including the cds3 but I can´t find anyone that have a 555 for demo here in Sweden :( maybe it is to expensive for a Naim.
My friend owns a hifishop here in Sweden and I sometimes work extra there. We have some pretty exotic cd players and dacs like Meitner Emm Labs, MBL, Buolder, Tact and Macintosh but we don´t sell Naim and nobody I know of here have a CD555 or even listened to one in a familliar system so thats why I like to hear from people who have first hand experience.
My Wadia is really nice and fun to listen to but it is no Naim and I like the way Naim makes me feel when I listen to music.
If I only wanted the most analouge like, smooth and most detailed cd player of them all it would be easy I would buy the EMM LABS cd player and as good as it is it dosen´t make me want to listen to more music all the time.
I like the PRAT or what you will call it from Naim players and the way it makes me want to get up and dance around.

I'll probably get slammed for saying this, but I wouldn't buy into a CD555 anything unless you already have an existing naim setup, love until death do you part the naim approach to sound, and have a collection of more or less rock, pop, and assorted elevator music etc and have no intention of ever buying into the available high resolution discs such as DVD-A, SACD, plus whatever will come with music on Bluray in the future etc.

In short, I have no doubt it's a very fine piece of equipment, but naim are very rooted in the 20th century with their analogue pres, with the exception of the forthcoming 'supernait' which will have an onboard DAC, and that means all their CD players are designed like fine, and very expensive, turntables, handling the signal at the earliest possible moment, in the analogue domain.

As people, plain logic and science will tell you, a digital bit is a digital bit and once it's been read correctly off the drive (no doubt a Phillips mechanisim in the CD555) or a PC computer drive, the major impediment to sound quality from the research that I've read about is jitter, or timing errors.

The easiest way to deal with that is to convert the signal into analogue at the earliest possible moment, which is what naim do, however to then keep the analogue signal 'pure' in a noisy digital environment is quite difficult, hence all the expense with isolated boards (microphonics) and very expensive interconnect cables etc.

Conversely, a digital transport using 21st century interconnect technology, with say an external DAC set up with external clocks to minimise jitter, is going to do the same job, but much simpler and much cheaper.

In my case my digital transport reads the digital bitstream, buffers it, and then feeds it on demand by the amp, via adaptive rate transfer over IEEE1394 to another internal buffer within the amp, which then clocks out that digital data, virtually jitter free.

As the amp is digital, the signal remains digital until the last possible moment, so all the expense at trying to keep an analogue signal free from noise, effects of components and potentiometers etc in the signal path, is negated at a single stroke.

I'd be very happy to pit this against a CD555/552/500 and would feel re performance we'd be talking different, not better or worse. The big difference is in cost; less than a tenth if we're talking Australian dollars.

Thats why, good as a CD555 no doubt is, I wouldn't personally be going there. I have every confidence you can do as well, allowing for personal taste re differences in presentation, for one hell of a lot less money.

Good luck with it & happy new year!

Best Regards

John... :)

Hi John was it you that had the Sony 9000ES A/V amp?
I have a Sony VA 777ES A/V amp and it is scary how good it is compared to many other things. The dac is not as good as the Wadia but it is not that far of and the whole amp is actually better than my old Naim 72/250. Sorry all Naim fans.
This amp is only used for A/V and not 2ch I have a different system for that but sometimes when I listen to the Sony I wonder why I spend so much money on my hifi when the Sony is this good.
So I know that I don´t have to spend the money for a Naim 555 to get good sound but it is so hard not to.

Yes, I have experience of them both. I was the first to have the 555PSU at home and used it with the CDX2 pointing out the benefits to be had over the XPS2.

I am not going to tell you how good I think the 555 is I am going to suggest you go to a dealer and hear the 555 for yourself. I also suggest you listen to the CDS3/555PSU and CDX2/555PSU as it comes down to budget.

Regards

PB


I think I will have to look at your other posts on that other site..... thank you.

Happy reading :D

By all means ask me anyting you want,

Regards

PB

I did not want to create another 555 topic, so just dig out the old one.

I have the 555 at home right now, with 555 PS.

Before getting the 555, I have also demoed the EMM Labs CDSD se / DCC 2 se, Accuphase DP-500 and DP-78, Opus 21, all Audio Aero models and obviously my current MBL 1531.

Simply put, the 555 is the best RBCD player I have tried. However, the difference between the 555, and Accuphase DP-78 (which is another excellent player, BTW) although noticable, was not huge by any means. I was expecting to be (literally) blown away, but what I got instead was a bit better bass, better PRAT, slightly wider soundstage with better defined outer edges. Nothing really major.

I have to say though, that the player is VERY complete sounding. With all other players, there were things that I did like and which I could identify almost instantly (Accuphase may be a bit too smooth and safe sounding at times, EMM has problems with bass and PRAT), things that could eventually lead to the lack long term musical satisfaction. The 555 was different. It doesn't have the obvius "flaws" or sonic traits. It is just ... complete.

Having said that, I have problems with persuading myself that the player is actually worth that much of money. The price premium over the Accuphase DP-78 (which costs ~ 1/3 of 555) is hard to justify, unless you are you have money to burn or are looking for the best of the best, irrespective of cost.

Given the cost of the 555, it would not be a great extra cost to take a trip to the UK with a series of demos set up at Salisbury and with one or two people that have 555s, allow a few days, treat it as a working holiday.

If you timed it right you could synchronise the trip with the legendary Bristol HiFI show and meet the great unwashed of the UK in the wild. <g> Just joking - about the great unwashed etc but not about the trip

By all means ask me anyting you want,

What was the capital of ancient Mesopotamia?

Given the cost of the 555, it would not be a great extra cost to take a trip to the UK with a series of demos set up at Salisbury and with one or two people that have 555s, allow a few days, treat it as a working holiday.

The problem for me is that most of those ppl are using them with ... Naim speakers, LOL. I'm not really a big fan of those. Somehow, I have never heard a great sounding all Naim system (flame suit on).

If you are serious about a CD player in the 555 price point then there is a Chord player just a little less expensive that is according to a Naim dealer , Amazing.
He has a number of customers who have chopped in their 555 for this item.
Just something I am also considering.

R

I know of at least two 555 users that do not use Naim speakers.

But do they use a 552?

Yes and a 500

I figured that much.
I've noticed you can get an extra mile out of a 555CD if used with a 552.

I think you could save yourself a lot of money if you bought a really good DAC Lavry 924 or MSB Platinum and a cheap transport, it would make an interesting 'bake off' , ime you pay a lot for heavyweight casework.

Why is the other contender the DP-78? I would think the DP-700 more appropriate.

The DP-700 is not available in Europe as of yet. Q3 2008.

Star dust,

Given that you use ARC kit, why not a CD7?

ARC Ref 7 is next on my "must audition" list. I should have it in 1-2 weeks time.

CD-Pro2 transport mechanism, tube rectified power supply, analog output stage taken from the Ref 3 - on paper it looks really interesting.

Haven't heard the CD7 but even a CD3 was a terrific player. ( in conjunction with their preamp )

An ARC signal chain sounds better when you can run fully balanced cct. from top to bottom.

With a Naim CD player you'd compromise their performance somewhat.

I borrowed a CD7, quite a dark sounding player with lots of ( not particularly well defined ) bass , I preferred the Meridian 808 to the 555, be interesting to hear your thoughts. Now I use a cheap transport and an exceptional DAC.

I borrowed a CD7, quite a dark sounding player with lots of ( not particularly well defined ) bass , I preferred the Meridian 808 to the 555, be interesting to hear your thoughts. Now I use a cheap transport and an exceptional DAC.

Hi Coops,

Which dac? How much? Have you compared it to a DAC1 (0db XLR)?

The CD555 I hear occasionally is in a friend's all Naim 552/500/SL2 set-up. Sounds very fine and it would be interesting to hear it with a non-Naim system.

Steve

The CD555 is a great player and works just as well in a non Naim system as it does in a Naim environment. I did two dems using it with velve amplification on Saturday and excellent it was too.:D

Evo6,

Think about local support for whatever you buy as well. I like Naim gear, but I'd be nervous about buying expensive kit with no local dealer support.

Steeve

Why is the other contender the DP-78? I would think the DP-700 more appropriate.
And why not Accu's top model, the two box DP-800/DC-801? Is it too expensive compared to the Naim?

What was the capital of ancient Mesopotamia?


Babble-On, also inventor of the Hi-Fi Website.

Hi Coops,

Which dac? How much? Have you compared it to a DAC1 (0db XLR)?

The CD555 I hear occasionally is in a friend's all Naim 552/500/SL2 set-up. Sounds very fine and it would be interesting to hear it with a non-Naim system.

Steve

Steve Hi, the best 'digital' replay I have heard have been through the lavry 924 and the MSB Platinum, the MSB has far more resolution than my Meridian 808 , which I purchased in preference to the ARC CD7, Audio Note DAC and transport ( 35k ) and the Naim 555, e interesting to hear the full DCS rig , which was my reference against the MSB, te MSB is only £4k and the DCS £33k! Haven't heard the benchmark or the very upper echelon of the Esoteric range yet!

I want a Naim cd player because I like the way they sound and I have heard most of their players to date including the cds3 but I can´t find anyone that have a 555 for demo here in Sweden :( maybe it is to expensive for a Naim.


Evo 6,

I believe there is one dealer in Stockholm that can demonstrate the CD555; Stefan Mether. He is the longest standing Naim dealer in Stockholm having worked with the brand for over 20 years and should be able to help.

Good luck

Hans

The Naim cd 555 is one of the best cd players i have heard,and would agree that it works best in a flagship naim system,your Wadia is an excellent machine and sounds completely different in presentation-Also consider s/h a Linn cd12 as well as Meridians 800 series.
Whatever you do-get a home dem in your system-then and only then will you pick the correct choice-you never know,you might prefer your Wadia!!!

Having home auditioned three of the above, and having owned a meridian 808 .I would say that they all sound pretty much the same, good but not exceptional, what is exceptional is the ridiculous prices being asked!
Get an exceptional DAC and a cheap transport. Something like the lavry or MSB are better and a quarter / fifth of the price.

The B-400XS is a CD player that has been raved about a lot on this forum. Has anyone compared it to a CD555? I'd be like to know because I might be considering buying one later this year - a 400XS, not a CD555!!

Paul

The thing is people have told me the new 555 powersupply is a massive uppgrade for a CDX2 or CDS2 compared to a XPS2 is this true?

Yes.

That must be one strange set up you have there Coops-I could'nt imagine four more different sounding players than Linn/Naim/Meridian/Wadia-differences between them are not subtle!!!!

I think in the current climate you would be out of your mind to spend serious money on a top-notch CD player especially as you already have one. In a couple of years' time hard disc storage will have reached the hifi mass market and your £14k superCD will be worth about threepence.

If the money's burning a hole in your pocket, buy a new one, but as others have said I wouldn't have set my heart on a Naim until I had done a *lot* of listening to CDPs, offboard DACs etc.

I guess at this level there are other candidates such as Dcs and Esoteric. It would be fun to try them out but since I am not in the market such an exercise will have to wait. I'm happily using an ACD3!

Thats the problem with buying these "Flagship products"-as soon as the "New" version is released,your current item is suddenly worth 50% or less of what you paid new,buying s/h or ex-dem is the way to go if you want a truly high end product that is not going to be too painful to the wallet later on!!

Mostly you are just paying for a 4mm ally box/boxes and a lot of empty space, ridiculous waste of money, CDP's might present the music slightly differently, but what you are looking for is a DAC which has more resolution,more texture tone or timbre ( whatever you want to call it ) . Most cdp's use the same DSP , why wouldn't they sound extremely similar.

Quality of components,board layout,isolation properties,power supplies to name but a few.

There must be some fantastic components in that £15k Naim!

Hmm, yes, just as there are in a 135. Power supply aside nothing costs more than a couple of quid. All together now "you aren't paying for the components, it's the development time..."

The Naim is but one that has had a lot of thought gone into it perhaps no more or less than any of the others mentioned!!!

We both know equipment is overpriced for what parts alone go into it but everyone has to have a little bit of profit along the way,and that the price that a product is sold for is what the customer is willing to pay.

I wouldn't even think of spending £15k on a CD player unless I was listening in an acoustically-treated listening room through state of the art £10k+ speakers. You are going to hear SO much more improvement upgrading your room and your speakers than switching CD players at that level. Anyone looking to spend serious money on a CD upgrade should try a speaker upgrade as an alternative IMO.

Andrew

In this months HiFi plush Roy Gregory tells us of the 1 to 10 rule on pricing. So Naims 555 CD Player at £15k retail has a parts cost of £1.5k.
Simple really.

If only I could work on that sort of mark-up in my business.

I would be suprised if the parts alone cost half that!!!!!!

I would be suprised if the parts alone cost half that!!!!!!

Marketing is expensive!

just buy a cd-pro 2 mech, and spit the i2s out into something suitable....

I wouldn't even think of spending £15k on a CD player unless I was listening in an acoustically-treated listening room through state of the art £10k+ speakers. You are going to hear SO much more improvement upgrading your room and your speakers than switching CD players at that level. Anyone looking to spend serious money on a CD upgrade should try a speaker upgrade as an alternative IMO.
I couldn't agree more. I could never fathom why people would choose a CDS2 class CDP to play into NAIT and Kans (with all due respect to what they do well, but hifi loudspeakers they ain't). Source first makes sense only if you don't lose 50% of the source by the time you get to the end.

James

Marketing is expensive!

...and Naim are hungry and greedy with it - and have been in the UK since the mid eighties especially.

Expensive products like this are supposed to be aspirational (and inspirational to people designing lower priced kit).

How could a humble Ford Focus drive as well as it does without reference to some pretty mean sports cars out there. The ride/handling compromises have been known for many many years, but to me it's good how ideas that the most OTT sports cars/penile extensions only used to have to themselves have gradually trickled down to more humble tin boxes.

I think Rega have, for years until Cambridge Audio really came on song, been the value brand to beat. Their turntables are really good for not much dosh (OK, Pro-ject too, but they are more "me too" than genuinely innovative) and the P9 apparently is a triumph. Rega's amps and CD players (and the lovely FM tuner they did) compared well with far more expensive (and wasteful) gear and their speakers, which won't give Harbeth or Spendor any worries to be fair, have a great performance in UK domestic rooms and are extremely profitable for them if they're anything like the models I used to sell.

Wonderful lid though.

I have a saucepan just like it.

I have a saucepan just like it.

Crepe pan?

If only I could work on that sort of mark-up in my business.

Start a hifi company, and you could have.

Crepe pan?

Rob Hi, talking of digital, do you know anything about Reference Records, making their master digital files available for either downloading or on an HXr disc, sounds ineresting, Magico were playing them in their room at CES .
I am not sure what i would need to play them, I don't believe they are optical discs, Thanks in advance,Keith.

Rob Hi, talking of digital, do you know anything about Reference Records, making their master digital files available for either downloading or on an HXr disc, sounds ineresting, Magico were playing them in their room at CES .
I am not sure what i would need to play them, I don't believe they are optical discs, Thanks in advance,Keith.

I know nothing of Reference Records Keith but Linn offer 24 bit downloads via their web site. They charge a premium though which is naughty as it's the same music as the standard download. Might be interesting to download the 16 & 24 bit versions to compare, I can play up to 24/384 through my CD player.

Rob Hi, here is the article, could/should this offer higher fidelity? Regards Keith.
http://www.stereophile.com/news/010508ref/

Start a hifi company, and you could have.

Don't forget the manufacturer makes the least profit of anyone in the selling chain. Typically there will be a distributor (maybe several if the country is large) then there are the dealers. Each one in the chain takes anything from 30% to 50% a pop. Everyone in the chain (to make the product available) has to make a profit and the dealer and distributor(s) makes more then the manufacturer. It's not just Hi-Fi, it the same for any manufacturing business.

I doubt that Naim make much on 555, they will definitely make a profit but it won't be as much as you think. Also I believe they still manufacturer everything here in the UK, so it will be inherently more expensive to produce than other companies who have their kit made and assembled in the Far East.

Biggus don't let the facts get in the way of a good ranting.

Biggus don't let the facts get in the way of a good ranting.

Oh, all right then :)

...from 30% to 50% a pop...

Call it an average of 40%. Let's make some numbers up...

CD Player retail price £15,000
Retailer cut 40% £6,000
Cost Price to Dealer £9,000
Distributer cut 40% £3,600
Cost Price to Distributer £5,400
Manufacturer to distributer courier £50

Sale price of item by Manufacturer £5,350

Components = £2,000 per unit
Additonal spare parts storage and admin £200 per unit

Other Budgeted costs to unit based on 10,000 units per year sold:-
Marketing £150,000 pa = £15 per unit
Webiste £10,000 pa = £1 per unit
Wages for 100 staff £4,500,000 = £450 per unit
Tooling, R&D costs above wages, out-house design £2,000,000 = £200 per unit
Rent, rates and upkeep £2,000,000 pa = £200 per unit
Services and utilities £500,000 pa = £50 per unit

Total Costs: £3116

Gross Profit before tax: £2,234 per unit

Net profit at 25% ajusted corp tax: £1,678 per unit

Cheaper products still have £916 per unit costs, but less component and spare storage costs.

Say the 100,000 units are broken down into (with proportionate componant costs)

1,000 at £15,000 = £15M sales £2.3M gross profit
4,000 at £6,000 = £24M sales £1.5M profit
4,000 at £2,000 = £8M sales £2.0M loss
1,000 at £1,000 = £1M sales £0.7M loss

£1.1M gross, £0.8M net profit on £48M list price sales, or £17M cost to distributor price.

OK - make and sell more of the high value products please!

Hmmm 2.5 man days per unit?

(OK, my unit cost accounting stinks)

What's the point ? Is no one supposed to make a profit ?

You should try this exercise with jewellery or antiques. Here we have 10 times mark-up. Buy for £100 and sell for £1000. Or clothes - mark-up times 5 or 6. Go to the pub and 4 times appears to be normal. etc etc.

Dave,

I'm not really being serious. And I have no idea if the numbers are anything like. Not my industry. I also have no idea on the validity of Biggus's claim. All I know is that he ranks very highly in Rome.

The above is just used to demonstrate that the people who say "£15,000 and only £2000 in parts" are missing the point. i.e. <> £13,000 profit.

If my back of envelope above is anything like - then all small hi-fi manufacterers should shut down at once and put the money in the bank. Not doubt retailers and distributors (if costs the same) should do this also. Of course, then everyone would be unemployed, skint - unable to support any of the employees who scream about "rip-off Britain", society would implode and we'd all start eating each other until there is only one person left. For a couple of days.

Jonathan

Jonathan,
Apologies.. I'm not doing humour today. It's been one of those days in January and I've got the hump. :(

I wonder which manufacturing business has the biggest mark-up ?

On TV last week, we saw that the supermarkets pay farmers 4 pence per chicken which they then sell (as a bargain) at two for a fiver.

Can anyone top that ?

As far as I understand it Dave - the big evil supermarkets are now demanding that farmer's children sell their organs to provide money which is given to the supermarkets in exchange for the privledge to supply the supermarkets FOC. And I believe every word of it.

Jonathan,
I wonder which manufacturing business has the biggest mark-up ?
Greeting Cards.

X500 mark ups.

Live stand-up?

What's the point ? Is no one supposed to make a profit ?



Mr. Dave ( or can I call you hifi? )

The "p" word is not really very popular here, too many people loath the thought that hifi manufacturers really should make a profit. There is some view that hifi should be made pro bono.

Odd, really, that success is so despised.

I think it's the AMOUNT of profit per item that's the problem. I mean, it's all the 10uF tants sprinkled everywhere and the 63V, 20,000uF reservoir caps... :D

But that's how Naim have survived. By creating demand, selling at high prices and covering their development costs after just one year. Twasn't always so...

Greeting Cards.

X500 mark ups.Nonsense, Man!

Rich

It's not.

Greeting cards I can believe. £2 a pop, when you can buy a box of Xmas cards for the same. I don't believe x500 though, that would mean they were being printed for 0.4p each. They aren't, a card sleeve for a food product runs around 5p, +/-, delivered in reasonable quantities, so probably printed about 2p factory gate cost at a guess.

Having said that, card shops have high overheads. High St locations, couple of staff 7 days, it's not nothing.

Not sure in the UK, but Hallmark cards are inexpensive as a half a penny to produce and retailed as much as 5 bucks a pop. ( that's more than 500 times actually )

Not the figure given is amortised over the large quantity press run and this was oh.. about 8 years ago when email greeting card was not that popular. ( over all quantity might be less now: i.e. the cost of each card to manufucture might be more )

Also, note that this is for the Hallmark cards where their products can carry premium over any others in the States.

p.s. I don't even wanna get into the mark up of cosmetics and perfume.