Hi,
I just got the call from my US service guy who is looking at my Naim CDS1 player. The player was only doing a few stutter rotations and then reading error. He tried replacing the laser, and capacitors on one of the boards as documented as an issue on the web. He spent 10 hours on the player and is throwing up his hands. Since Naim in the US no longer services these. I am wondering if anyone has any suggestions. I understand that avondale will work on these to do the upgrades, but when I paid $1800 US, for the player, it doesn't seem financially worthwhile, I do realize the CDPS can be used with a modified burndy for XPS type duties. Is there some other avenue that I am missing? At this point I see maybe selling the CDPS for $600, selling the black burndy for $150 and maybe getting $100 for the head unit, so I am out $1000, I am a bargain hunting stereo lover who is suddenly in over his head.
Any opinions would be most appreciated.
thanks
Tim - Seattle

Hi Tim.

I am not sure what Les can do with this particular model no doubt he will post soon.

However not wishing to sound miserable, this is the risk you take purchasing older CD players of any manufacturer. Naim support as long as possible all their gear but in the end things run out and its time to move on.

If you wish to stay with the naim route perhaps take a listen to CDX, perhaps this can be used with a modified power supply?

Hi
Do you mean that the disc starts to spin but sounds like it is slipping then comes up reading error?
If so then do a search on the Naim forum as there are some possible simple causes and solutions.
1. Is the puck left on constantly? Try leaving it off for a day or two and make the O rings more round by pinching them a bit.
2. The mech has a slightly rubber like surface where the cd rests. This can wear off causing slipping. Some people cut a small rubber circular shape to go under the cd.
I've had similar probs with a cdi, which had a similar mech.
As I say see the Naim forum for help.
Good luck!
Mand

no it is definately not a slipping issue, the disc spins about 1 revolution, stops spins again, stops and reads error, the motor seems to be trying to spin, but not getting the information from the disc to tell it to start running. No strange slipping noises. I would love it if it where the slipping disc issues, I found lots of good fixes for that on the naim forum.

It could just be problems with the disc servo; some of the Philips servo chips simply die with age/heat. Certainly worth investigating further, anyway.

is the servo a chip on one of the boards? I can ask my guy if he checked that. I would imagine though at this point I need to be very specific about what to look at. He is very nice, but probably at his limit, as he does not charge you if he doesn't fix your unit, so he is in 10 hours with no money on his side at this time. I'm definately giving him a six pack of home brew either way.

Early CDS players used a standard Philips servo board–if you can track one of these down, it may be possible to give it a whirl.

In my experience, though, more often than not, the motor has given up the ghost.

Is Larry at Wedgwood Audio your service tech?

Yes, Larry is doing the work. He is actually the only person besides NANA who is approved to work on non-warrantee covered naim gear in the USA. I need to talk to him some more, to understand all that he tried, but I have to assume he validated the motor was good. I understand if the motor is out, that the magnetic units are basically impossible to find. I did track down some CDM4/19 lasers for him to use in his checking of the unit. He seemed to think it was something dead on the boards that he could not track down, but I didn't speak with him long and I am a neophite on this stuff.

Can someone point me at more information about the philips servo board?
Is it on a cdm4/ transport or something above and beyond?
thank you for your time and help.
Tim

Hi Tim,

The servo board is the small board on stilts next to the transport. The board is upside down so all the serviceable parts are underneath. Les at Avondale serviced mine recently. He can also fit a new laser if needed (but not the disc transport). If you have an older CDS1 I live near Les and he could use my head unit as a test bed.

Best contact Les. If he can repair it great but I don't think he will be able to offer any guarantees (sorry for speaking for you Les I'm just trying to be helpful).

Regards

Chris

OK,
I have finally sat down with my service guy for a minute and discussed the player. He had fully removed the transport from the naim and put in a cdm4/19 technics player transport in its place. It then recreated the problems I was having with the naim. So, he does not feel it is a motor issue.
.
He thinks it is a servo board issue, but he has not servo board values or service data. Is the naim servo board NAIM's design or is it used by other companies?
Rubyiat? - you sounded like you knew what this might be or what some other players to get a board from might be?
.
thank you
Tim

Some used a Naim servo board, others had a Philips-sourced one.

Tim, I do think that the time has come to do what I tried to steer you into doing on the Naim site a couple of weeks ago: consult Les at Avondale (whose name is not allowed to be mentioned on the Naim site).

Alternatively, thrash around as much as you like!

Rubyiat, thanks for the reply. I will try and determine what my board is.
.
Graham, I have emailed Avondale about a week ago and have not yet heard any reply. If there only answer is to do the full upgrade for $1600 then I will have to continue to thrash about.
.
thanks for the hints.

Tim, I'm not sure what you wish to spend but if you already have the CDPS and Burndy I would consider trying to convert the CDS1 head unit into a CDS2 or finding the latter head unit. As Gary suggests, a CDX can also be used with your CDPS. (Should you sell the CDPS you should get a bit more than you suggest although servicing it could be expensive for any purchaser. I preferred it to the XPS).

Tim, by email, I've answered you thus:

================================================== ======

Hello Tim

I've been watching PFM and compiling some thoughts:

It sound very much like a motor problem and in which
case, I don't have any spares - sorry

Having said, I'm happy to take a look at the head unit
if you would care to send it - I have access to a PSU

I shouldn't be unrepairable

Cheers, Les

================================================== =====

Les, very glad to learn that you are not unrepairable!

Tim,
Les is a bit email averse, as he gets far too much crap through that channel. If you can work out a way of doing it cheaply, the best idea is to give him a ring. He does work quite late into the evening, which should hopefully keep the time difference factor with yourself under control.

Or create a post on here with a title that he is bound to see. He does keep a pretty good eye on the forum.

thanks for the many replies. I am trying to work out the best way to speak with Les and his post/email was much appreciated. I now need to try and get a rough estimate for the servo board work. I think it is servo board as a replacement transport replicated the naim transport problems.
.
My best option appears to be Les, great news.
.
My next option would be open my player and determine what servo board I have, and then see if it can be replaced with another Philips board, or find someone more local to service the board. I don't see how to do that with no specs for those boards. I do know my player and ps have the white dots on the back, which makes them newer.
.
My main problem with all of this is really my wife, who wants the money I put into this player back into our bank account. I of course figured to upgrade with this and sell my existing player to replace most of the funds. That plan has not gone exactly as imagined. I may have to start another post about what my gear is and what my down grade options are. It will depend on this post and the wife.
.
Anything else I am missing here?
.
Did I mention the Naim forum completely erased my last thread as soon as I started discussing servo board repair and servicing data? I can understand a rebuke and refusal of improper conduct, but for your whole post to just vanish with no discussion seems unfair. Maybe I am starting to understand why pink fish is so popular.
.
ok - thank you for your time
Tim - Seattle

You should be able to buy any functional Philips player with a CDM4/11 mech and swap the mechs over with the servo boards (connectors from servo board to Naim boards *should* be the same). I've seen this as a solution to problems in other high end machines using CDM4 Pro mechs - never tested it myself, I've got a similar problem with a CDM9 Pro mech in a CDI player.

Doing it this way will let you see/confirm if it is a servo board problem, and you can then start changing chips (note: CDM4/11 has a different spin motor, so servo chips likely different).

I've a list of model numbers I've been compiling, to allow me to search on eBay for a CDM4/11 mech'ed machine - PM me if you'd like it. One issue is that Philips swapped from CDM2 to CDM4 during the life of a lot of these players, so you need to pay attention to their revision numbers too.

Richard

Tim,

Did you finally manage to get your CDS repaired?

My CDS "died" some time ago and Naim answered that they can no longer repair the player if the problem is transport related. I remember asking the Naim importer in the Benelux in 2002 if he would recommend me to swap the CDS head unit for the CDS II (An offer from Naim at the time), but he told me to trust Naim's long-term serviceability ... :(

Actually when I put in a CD, the motor makes a whirring noise and it is as if the disc slips. I use the puck with one rubber band, but I never leave it on the CD, so that should not be the problem. If somebody has any idea what could be the problem ...

Ciao!

Willem

Just a thought–in 2008, with the downfall of Compact Disc as a format, and the likelihood that few CD player manufacturers will be able to supply replacement parts ex stock for a player well over ten years' old–is this the end of the road for used, formerly high £/$ CD players?

Should one even buy one at this point?

Willem - have you tried a different puck, with more than one band? It could be the nextel ring on your platter has worn, and the one rubber band wont grip it sufficiently well.

Note that the whirring noise is also likely a worn laser though, but best rule out the simple stuff first.

Richard

Just a thought–in 2008, with the downfall of Compact Disc as a format, and the likelihood that few CD player manufacturers will be able to supply replacement parts ex stock for a player well over ten years' old–is this the end of the road for used, formerly high £/$ CD players?

Should one even buy one at this point?

Yes, and no, IMHO.

Speaking as an recently ex CDI owner.

regards

Jon..

Noise usually means laser cannot track the disc. This could mean duff laser but in my experience actually means transport is at fault. In order to track well the transport must be silky smooth and in a hot CD/DVD player this is not the case. If all else fails take it apart , find out how the laser unit moves (rails, pivot point) and oil it with light sewing machine oil and re-try. Worked every time I have had an issue.

Thanks for your feedback. I will try your suggestions and see if I can describe better what goes wrong

Just a thought–in 2008, with the downfall of Compact Disc as a format, and the likelihood that few CD player manufacturers will be able to supply replacement parts ex stock for a player well over ten years' old–is this the end of the road for used, formerly high £/$ CD players?

Should one even buy one at this point?

Theoretically I could buy a used CDS II and have my CDPS transformed to power it, but I won't ... The risk to find myself in a similar situation in < 10 years is too big. If I can't get the CDS repaired, I will buy a good DAC and use it with my computer.

Ciao!

Willem

what mech does it use?
theres a cdm9/44 on ebay going for £30 at the mo

what mech does it use?
theres a cdm9/44 on ebay going for £30 at the mo

No luck, the CDS uses a CDM4 mechanism.

Ciao!

Willem

Me, I'd be looking into upgrading to a CDS II.
A computer and a DAC may be cheaper and/or more disposable, but...

have you tried daisylaser.com?

Just a thought–in 2008, with the downfall of Compact Disc as a format, and the likelihood that few CD player manufacturers will be able to supply replacement parts ex stock for a player well over ten years' old–is this the end of the road for used, formerly high £/$ CD players?

Should one even buy one at this point?
There'll still be trillions of CDs in circulation in my lifetime. Specialist manufacturers will continue to supply kit on which you can spin these well into the future. You can still buy top quality cartridges and decks these days, so I can't see why the enterprising Chinese won't seize the opportunity if Philips doesn't.

May not resurrect a dead CDS1 though ...

James

It's a good probability that ultra hi-end players, so long as the manufacture exists, should be able to service them for a long time. ( they usually reserve extra transports assigned to each unit produced )

My Krell 25s is now 10 years old but they can still service its transport/laser if it fails again. ( it's been replaced once already, so it should be good for another 10 )

But sooner or later they all will end up in a landfill like a dead CDS1. Unlike a turntable, needed parts are probably harder to be fixed or found.

But sooner or later they all will end up in a landfill like a dead CDS1.

Christ, what a horrible thought. Mine still waits quitely on a shelf for a cd that will never come (sniff)

dave,

So you kept your CDS1. :0

I can't bring myself to sell the Krell either,even tho, I hardly use it any more.

Irony is that it has been superseded by a turntable which I never thought at the time of purchase...

The Phonosophie or the Technics?

I've been meaning to ask you, how do you like the Phonosophie vs. the LP-12. Fun factor and all...

Yeah, I kept the dead CDS head unit. Not sure why other than fond memories I guess. For me, the CDS mk1 was a revelation just like the LP-12 twenty years earlier. Can't seem to part with it. Suppose I should build a shrine around it or at least fire up some incense sticks once in a while;-)

I also still can recall the first time I have heard the kps25s.
I've never heard the music more vivid yet natural and so real from my system. It was down right fun to boot.
It was one of those rare moment it's silly not to own one. ( I made the dealer very happy that day. You know how it is ) ;)

I ran it with Krell's integrated for a while. It's a roundie kit, but I realised that the source first idea works. I didn't even know Naim existed, then.

Anyway, I had many enjoyable hours with this player. Also, Krell's service is a top notch.

how do you like the Phonosophie vs. the LP-12. Fun factor and all..
I like them both.
I think I finally figured out the P3 and very happy with the results. It can sound somber and humorless depending on a cartridge/phonostage, but it's not a bad table after all.

Dare I say, it's a bit Roksan-ish, now!

I know exactly where you're coming from with your kps25s. I had stopped using my hifi altogether for five years until I found the CDS!

An Aro'd P3 was always one of the last tables I regretted not hearing before giving up on TTs altogether. I figured there might be a chance I'd like it since the designer of my system used one at home but after speaking with one of his cohorts I knew and trusted, he didn't think it would be the best answer for me. Still, I'd love to hear one some day. Just curious, do you find yourself using it over your LP-12?

dave,

The P3 is sounding good enough now that I haven't used the Sondek in weeks. It doesn't sound the same, but it's got plenty going for it.

If I can only get to keep one table, it would be the LP12. ( I am hopeless, I know )

Not hopeless at all...I completely understand. The LP-12 is overall, the best deck I've heard.

I was well into CD by the late eighties, but never liked the CDS1, far too contrived and "coloured" for my tastes...

Still hold a candle for the CDS2 though - the bass power ("tunefulness") and weight on this latter player is a joy to behold..

"Contrived and coloured?"

Siting the head unit might have caused your problem. It is the most sensitive piece of electronics I've ever encountered when it comes to vibration (far more sensitive than any TT for example.) After fifteen years of ownership, I never found more than three or four surfaces that allowed the player to show its full potential.

"Contrived and coloured?"

Not my experience here--whatever "colourations" are present in this player are meaningless compared to its ability to playback cds realistically and with total involvement.

May we beg to differ (again?) :D

"Contrived and coloured" is also why I disposed of my umpteenth LP12 twenty years ago (I changed mine regularly depending on plinth colour fads as well as physical improvements).

For a few years I had what was to me a stunning turntable (NAS Mentor/graphite platter/Arm/Decca Microscanner) and some very reasonable 15IPS master copies and a high speed IEC Revox B77 to play them on. Even though these tracks on tape were copies, they still set high "musical listening" standards and made things like the "typical" LP12 combos of the times and CDS rather "contrived and coloured" by comparison *to my ears at the time.* The Meridian 600 CD player was much worse, all thick and squidgy sounding to me.

I don't hear these colourations in a live acoustic performance, so why should the system plaster its "character" all over what I listen to at home. The treatments in the studio are bad enough. Interestingly, the old AVI preamp I bought cheap recently (a late nineties one) allows me to easily hear differences in recording venue and production, as well as all the wonderful "musical" and "pratty" bits in different recordings, something I found missing in some FE style systems, which made every disc sound the same...

Apologies all, we're supposed to be talking of a (much loved by its owner) dead CDS head unit. I really hope you can get it going again and if the audio output circuits had "Avondale" style treatments once working again, who knows, even I might grow to love it as well as most of you guys obviously do.....

Yes...we can differ;-)

I could make a short list of complaints about the unit but "Contrived and coloured" is simply not on it.

Oh alright, "odd" then.....;)

(crawls back under his slimy stone...........)

I'll accept "odd" just to be neighborly though I don't know why;-)