Dear Colleagues,

Sorry, if this topic was covered before - but my search was without result.
Is there an official - or inofficial - "LINN" Forum ?
Thanks for stating the address /Link

regards

Urs,
Switzerland

http://lists.topica.com/lists/linn/read

(Wouldn't you know it, it's currently undergoing maintenance for the next 2 hours)

Best regards,

Andrew Randle

Also try here

http://www.lejonklou.com/forum/index.php

Interesting approach they have.

Vidar and carle, welcome to the forum!

I can't comment on the Naim player that you are discussing, because I haven't yet listened to it, but I have to remind you of the forum rules that are posted at the top of each forum.

The Tune Method is mandatory here when judging performance. You can't replace it with expressions like "better tonal colour", "dry", "flesh to the bone" or even PR&T.
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Vidar P
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Joined: 02 Feb 2007
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Location: Norway

PostPosted: 2007-02-04 23:38 Post subject: Reply with quote
Sorry, I wasn't aware that one couldn't comment on a product without doing a comparative tunedem. Although I use and value the strict tunedem myself now and then, I'll withdraw from this forum as I haven't done enough comparative tunedems, with the best of wishes to you all!

Regards, Vidar
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lejonklou
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PostPosted: 2007-02-04 23:54 Post subject: Reply with quote
It's in the rules and they may seem harsh, but there are so many other hifi forums that allow just about any opinion, so my intention was to do the opposite: Create a forum where everyone shares the same frame of reference.

If you do use the Tune Method, you can always participate in the discussions here. But the posted opinions need to be based on that method. Thanks for staying and welcome back!

"It's in the rules and they may seem harsh, but there are so many other hifi forums that allow just about any opinion, so my intention was to do the opposite: Create a forum where everyone shares the same frame of reference."

Well said that man.

Just imagine a forum where people have different opinions - the concept is simply too shocking to contemplate ..... :rolleyes:

Well said that man.

Just imagine a forum where people have different opinions - the concept is simply too shocking to contemplate ..... :rolleyes:

"If you do use the Tune Method, you can always participate in the discussions here."

Jeeze. Is that one of Ivor's? What bollocks.

Surely less bollocks than 'sucking the life out of the music'...

Paul

Um. Is this the Westborough Baptists thread??

Must be something wrong with my browser...

"If you do use the Tune Method, you can always participate in the discussions here."

Jeeze. Is that one of Ivor's? What bollocks.

I'd just lie and say I use the Tune Method even though I don't. It's not like they're going to come round to my house and check!

Um. Joe. Who are those guys errecting a burning cross on your front lawn?

They're members of the local Ken Kessler Klan.

Coming after you for pretending to use the tune dem? Not bloody likely.

Oh, right, it's Monday isn't it? The Ken Kessler lot are due tomorrow.

Yikes, I'm sure this is old ground for alot of you, but I'd never read a full description of a "tune dem" http://www.lejonklou.com/?page=37 before. It reads like the handbook from some cult, where the only way to test your theory is using the "approved science". I find it bizarre that anyone subscribes to the notion that the equipment vendor telling you how to evaluate their equipment is a good idea...

Very odd indeed.

--
tom

Dear Colleagues, & Andrew,

Thanks for the infos.

the "topica" site seems to be off for 2 hours since quite some time, though; while the other site appears a bit special, I conclude.

Urs

PS:
I found this German site, for those who speak the lingo
http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/linnhighendforum

Yikes, I'm sure this is old ground for alot of you, but I'd never read a full description of a "tune dem" http://www.lejonklou.com/?page=37 before. It reads like the handbook from some cult, where the only way to test your theory is using the "approved science". I find it bizarre that anyone subscribes to the notion that the equipment vendor telling you how to evaluate their equipment is a good idea...

Very odd indeed.

--
tom
Nobody force you to agree or use the method...
I tried many evaluation methods over the years and tune dem IS working. It's the only "what to buy, how to adjust the system" method that makes me playing more music.

Please read pink fish, Naim's forum and the different Linn forum’s - who discuss downgrading and dissatisfaction...?
Don’t see that many unhappy Linn owners :p
Not an evidence, but an indication :cool:


Always a LOT of discussion when Linn/Naim are mentioned.
At least they have a clear understanding what they focus R/D on.
Slightly different result but if you like what they do, new product are often "better".
I don’t like every product but they are consistent, and that’s good.

Lejonklou idea is GREAT!
The thoughts/recommendations on other forums have to be "filtered" before understanding if it's an advice that going to kill or enhance musicality...

Nobody force you to agree or use the method...
I tried many evaluation methods over the years and tune dem IS working. It's the only "what to buy, how to adjust the system" method that makes me playing more music.

I'm not saying this tune dem is wrong, everyone is free to choose whatever method they like to evaluate the value of any purchase they make. And, hey, if it works for you then great. I have no problem with that.

What find curious is that it is the manufacturer of the equipment (who have a vested interest in people purchasing the kit) that are defining the criteria for whether the kit is good or not. Might it not be the case that the "tune dem" is good at highlighting what Linn equipment is good at, whilst ignoring things that Linn kit is not so great at. Who is to say that the ability to follow a tune is the most important criteria in choosing equipment?

Ie I would rather get my method for evaluating kit from an impartial source, based on what I like about HiFi, rather than from someone who wants to sell me HiFi.

--
tom

I understand, but have you considered that people choose Linn as they AGREE that musicality is most important? :cool:
Other people choose products from other vendors:D

Over the years, I found that most other vendors products are not consistent in voicing, musicality etc etc.
Some I like, some I don’t.
Strange that a new more expensive product can be less good as the one it replacing.
That rarely happen in Linn.


btw, I'm very demanding re separation, details and all other HIFI parameters.
Linn recent equipment (most in the Klimax series) offer that.

I understand, but have you considered that people choose Linn as they AGREE that musicality is most important? :cool:


If you define musicality as "consisting of, involving, relating to or producing music", then its tautological to say that musically is important in the reproduction of music.

The real question is should you accept the advice of an equipment manufacturer when deciding how to measure the quality of hifi, or would it be better to use a combination of your own intuition and the advice of peers (presuming said peers aren't telling you to use a tune dem ;-) to decide on your own acceptance citeria.

But hey, as I say, if it works for you then go for it!
--
tom

Please read pink fish, Naim's forum and the different Linn forum’s - who discuss downgrading and dissatisfaction...?
Don’t see that many unhappy Linn owners :p
Not an evidence, but an indication :cool: ...

Yebbut Pink Fish isn't a manufacturers' forum, so there's room for all varieties of taste ranging from Flat Earth to Round Earth and all shapes in between, and Joe P's Star Trek pictures to liven the place up in the event that someone starts taking it all a bit too seriously.

...and Joe P's Star Trek pictures to liven the place up in the event that someone starts taking it all a bit too seriously.

Well, the prescriptive nature of the "tune dem" does make Linn sounds alittle Borg like...

--
tom

Well, the prescriptive nature of the "tune dem" does make Linn sounds alittle Borg like...

Your ass will be laminated!

I think having a Linn forum is fine. There's much discussion about Linn here but I've found few who understand the "tune dem", what good is that?

Yebbut Pink Fish isn't a manufacturers' forum, so there's room for all varieties of taste ranging from Flat Earth to Round Earth and all shapes in between, and Joe P's Star Trek pictures to liven the place up in the event that someone starts taking it all a bit too seriously.
You missing my point, how many not happy Linn owners do you see on these forums - Linn specific or not...:p

You missing my point, how many not happy Linn owners do you see on these forums - Linn specific or not...:p

Well, I know of several who have moved from the LP12 to alternative record players, and who wonder aloud why they didn't make the move sooner. Not me though; I preferred Roksan to LP12 all of 20 years ago!

I preferred Roksan to LP12 all of 20 years ago!

...and do you have the sagging top-plate to prove it? ;)

...and do you have the sagging top-plate to prove it? ;)

Nope (though I traded in my original Xerxes for a Xerxes X a while back).

If you define musicality as "consisting of, involving, relating to or producing music", then its tautological to say that musically is important in the reproduction of music.

The real question is should you accept the advice of an equipment manufacturer when deciding how to measure the quality of hifi, or would it be better to use a combination of your own intuition and the advice of peers (presuming said peers aren't telling you to use a tune dem ;-) to decide on your own acceptance citeria.

But hey, as I say, if it works for you then go for it!
--
tom
For me, it's an advantage that Linn and Lejonklou clearly define their evaluation method, as they develop product accordingly.
For most other vendors, I have no insight in what they prioritise in R/D.

Agree that each customer should evaluate the kit according to their preferences.

I understand, but have you considered that people choose Linn as they AGREE that musicality is most important? :cool:
Other people choose products from other vendors:D



I agree that musicality is most important... and I have chosen naim (not Linn) for my amplifier ;-)

JC

I agree that musicality is most important... and I have chosen naim (not Linn) for my amplifier ;-)

JC
Good choice, I also have a Naim amp in the second system :D

And have used both Naim/Linn amps in my main system.
Both are very good, just little different.

Would anyone really say that "Musicality" wasn't the most important thing in reproducing Music?

--
tom

Colleagues,

there is this one - makes "some sort of official" presentation

http://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/index.php

Urs

I attended countless classical concerts back in the day and many of them were NOT musical or tuneful in the traditional sense of the "tune" dem and I should know, as it was Ivor himself and Charlie Brennen who officiated at my indoctrination.

Linn Nut, I appreciate where you're coming from, but Linn have made some true clunkers in their time that couldn't or barely reproduce a tune in a "tuneful manner" if they tried - Keltiks, Mimik, Intek, NEXUS, Index, Axis, Klyde, Akito mk1, Wakonda, Dirak/Spark, LK280, do I need to go on?

I find most decent valve amps and ALL NAS turntables incredibly musical and they sometimes kick rhythm too. Just focussing on one parameter is ludicrous, what about prat? Linn obviously majored on that in the early nineties as many of their products couldn't hold a tune to save their lives. I even had a refugee from Grahams give me the rhythm dem using an Arcam Delta 60 amp, which does this rather well...

To be fair to Linn, they got their collective backsides in gear by the end of the century and I really liked the later stuff they did. I also thought the £3500 active speakers they do/did fairly recently (akurate?) sounded superb, although they were frighteningly expensive when all the active amps were added in....

Just my opinion, having known Linn since 1976..

I've just heard that Linn have deleted their forum and will not be supporting past posts - members are recommended to re-register and re-type all posts into the vastly improved new forum.

Any idea why that is ?

I did ask a Linn rep but he told me that if I wasn't prepared to be 100% behind the 'New' forum he would have to suspend my account pending formal interview.

I did ask a Linn rep but he told me that if I wasn't prepared to be 100% behind the 'New' forum he would have to suspend my account pending formal interview.

Now, now, that's unkind - akkurate to the bone but unkind nevertheless....

Sorry Les.....;-)

Useless discussion removed.Those concerned are asked to not repeat it.

Back to the thread topic, please.

Markus - moderating

I presume this is known to all http://lejonklou.com/forum/index.php?sid=5dc81cece8af7cc40e12dfcbcf5b9c9d

ashley.

i know the guy who runs that place and he has a serious psychological disorder.


vuk.