It's a bit like the song.... "where do I begin?"

If I was to put a budget of £100-200 on the table for a record deck, what should I be looking to buy?

My musical tastes are eclectic in the extreme - I listen to anything and everything.

I have no qualms about second hand - please give me some recommendations on what I should be looking for?

Loads of options: but 1st have a look on ebay at the heybrook tt with linn lvx- not mine but could be a steal if you want a 'serious' deck for peanuts/ £100 ish?

Failing that I'd strongly recommend a linn basik with akito arm: really musical tt & fab vfm at £150 ish s/h. Or a linn axis you may find one for £200 ish with a linn arm/ £220 with an akito lets say..

Then of course a rega planar3 with rega rb300, £150 ish. poss best for £150, but a tad dull Imo in looks and sound (I'll be bllkd for saying it here!)

Or a Systemdek with a good arm/ rb250 min or rb300 better, around dunno £100-£150 ish? (vg vfm used).

Then you've got nice solid 'pipe n slippers' older types like Thorens etc.. dunno much about these but suspect theyre some major bargains thesedays.

NB: check with any used tt the arm bearings, if you can/ ask etc.. must be smooth/ no notchyness at all= good condition arm (its a £60+ bill to sort probably see).

hth capt

A Manticore Mantra is also worth considering. You should find one with Rega arm and MM cart for about £200. When I bought one new in the early 90's I thought it was the best new deck for the money (£500 with rega arm and at F3 MC Cart). Also looks really nice in natural wood.

edit: There's a black one on E Bay BIN for £150 at the mo - I'm not connected to the seller BTW.

edit 2 - Bugger all to go wrong with these too. Very simple solid engineering.

Beware of old decks on ebay unless you know how to fix them. For an idea of the dangers look on the naim forum search facility and type cost of service for an original xerxes . I would suggest (it was also suggested to me) the a 2nd hand rega p3 would be ideal. I realise the xerxes is above budget but what i am getting at is that a 'fiddly' deck may cause lots of trouble if you can't sort it yourself and can quickly cost a fortune to sort taking you way above what you intended to spend.

I keep seeing Systemdek IIX for around the £100 - £200 mark. This is real value, and with a Linn Basik Plus arm will give a poverty spec older LP12 a bit of competition.

gabble

The IIX was a brilliant deck and with an RB300 sounded better (more musical and involving) than a Planar 3 to my ears. The only negative with these springy decks (the AR EB101/later Legend was another) is the time taken to set up compared with profit made on each sale (we weren't the kind of dealer to sell turntables in sealed boxes, even Duals). The Heybrook TT2 and lovable old Manticore were about break-even to reasonable profit after set-up tome was considered. By comparison a Planar anything took a quarter of an hour or less, depending how thorough one was.

The problem with old used decks like the above is lack of spares (original AR Legends had sh*t bearings, as did the later versions of the "old" AR deck [AR77XB?]) and you really do know what to do with them to get 'em to sing sweetly. I love the Basik Plus, but make sure the headshell hasn't been nurdled, as the screws holding the thing together will be loose by now and most importantly that the soft part of the counterweight decoupling hasn't turned to semi liquid by now (some Linn dealers may have replacements still in their spares kits.....).

One reason to just buy a Rega. Most dealers will have been "persuaded/blackmailed" by Rega to give the deck a quick free-of-charge once over whilst fitting a new cartridge (we did this willingly), although it's little more than cleaning (if necessary) BOTH the upper and lower motor bearings and re-lubing (don't know what oil Rega supply but all Rega dealers should have a bottle of it), a couple of drops of EP80 in the bearing/spindle tip and a tighten up of the main bearing and arm fixing nuts, then off you go for another twenty years.

When asked how long a "lifetime" is on a Rega deck, Roy Gandy thought the bearing would last twenty years or so. The fact that older ones are still fine as long as they're lubricated (old EP80 coagulates eventually and stops lubricating, causing quick and terminal wear) and that replacements are still available at fair prices, as well as a raft of arm updates/re-wiring etc. for those thus interested should be enough.

i would go for a S/H pink triangle PT1

Also consider the Pro-Ject range of TT's. I've owned 3 of them with the last 5 or 6 years and they are pretty good. The most cheapest one ( debut??) will be a pretty good starter deck and usually comes bundled with a decent MM cartridge.

Some of the decks that the other guys have suggested might need more than a little bit of TLC to get them at their best, possibly meaning that you will be dipoping in your pocket agin and your budget will slowly creep up, don't do it at this stage would be my advice. Get a brand new Pro-Ject , or Rega P2 from your nearest dealer and enjoy it for a year before looking elsewhere. These decks have arms that will easily handle a couple of cartridge upgrades too, if you get an itchy wallet...

also linn axis

All the above advice is good, basically look at quality older simple decks, Rega, Linn Basik etc, or new simple decks like the Project, Rega P2. And depending on your amp you may find that your pre-amp is the limiting factor, or that your support isn't good enough etc. The world of analog can be quite complicated!

Cesare

also linn axis

Yeah, until the supply blows up. Linn don't make replacements any more..

A restored Goldring Lenco GL75/K9 creams an Axis/Akito/K9 .... more "prat" and beter detailing/image as well as properly held pitch.

didnt know linn dont support the axis anymore but im sure theres many a good techie who would be able to keep one going for a few more years and possibly alot cheaper

Rega P3, great deck and utterly idiot proof!

I would avoid old decks (unless renovated, but then you've got a more complicated deck) and don't worry too much about things 'blowing up' for there are so few parts to a linn basik, axis, or a p3, and they're pretty well built imo: you can't go too wrong with a good condition one of one of these 3 Imo.

If you can stretch to it, a used Technics SL-1200 MK2 is the only deck worth thinking about.

Pink Triangle made some good decks. I have an LPT myself. The Funk Firm are around if you need support. But be aware that they do have a bit of a rep for the reliability of their PSUs. I'm not saying they cant be fixed but you may be buying a 'project' The PT1 has great upgrade potential via Funk but thats well beyond your budget.

Also do you have the skills/inclination to set the thing up? Cartridge allignment etc.

PT make bloomin fine decks, but they're not a simple deck like a p3 or a basik. Great if you do find one at all but for for under £200? I doubt it. They could be very well used by now too. I saw one, once, 15 yrs ago for £150, it was sold in hrs.

Captain, I totally agree with you on Basik and P3, but having seen a few Axis decks that have been left on 24/7 for years, then suffering a rectifier failure with the resulting burned board and gawd knows what else, I'd recommend caution.

Later Axis boards had far more inrush suppression around the diode bridge and all that happens to these is that the big caps age and cause speed/running torque problems, which are easy to fix. Remember the motor is attached to the Axis supply board and the whole thing is an entity including the heatsink assembly.

Apologies for being a misery-guts, but I'd be VERY careful indeed of the old Akito arms fitted to Axis and Basik decks. They appear to be made of a sort of plasticene material (sarcasm) which is very easily crushed (as when tightening up the pillar nut), destrying the arm bearings. Any prospective purchaser should have the arm balanced with the bias switched off and see if the arm will travel slowly and freely from centre to rest without any springy "notching" or catching - a big problem with many of these arms after Linn dealers were taught (by Linn) to tighten everything up almost to breaking point......... My first Akito was thus damaged and at least Linn acknowledged this at the time and replaced the arm FOC. I never over-tightened ANY Linn arm pillar nut after this, although the Basiks, Ittoks and Ekos's are made of far stronger stuff - I never dared to see if the Akito 2 was stronger in this respect.....

Yeah, until the supply blows up. Linn don't make replacements any more..

A restored Goldring Lenco GL75/K9 creams an Axis/Akito/K9 .... more "prat" and beter detailing/image as well as properly held pitch.

I'd have thought that any PSU for the Lp12 would work with it as the motor is the same. I liked the Axis - neat, tidy looking and sounding deck and a little better than a Planar 3.
Bit of a dark horse too as it could improve markedly with a better arm than the original LVX+.

The motor is attached to the supply board on the Axis, NOT the plinth and comes as part of the assembly - THAT's the possible problem here Rob. A DC motor stuck to the top plate may work in desperate cases though to keep the deck going if the gearing is ok (a Thorens motor may do here), but it'll be a bit of a bodge and any rumble figures will go out the window.

This doesn't apply to the basik turntable as the motor is glued with self adhesive "suspension" rings to the plinth as in current Rega practice.

Thinking again, a standard Linn style motor could be glued to the remains of the supply board, taking its power from an external supply, but is the deck worth the bother? I personally think not, as there are so many better used buys out there in my opinion.

Some very good recommendations so far.

I'd also recommend saving up for an LP12 - even if it means limiting your budget on your amp / speakers / beer - well maybe not beer...

The motor is attached to the supply board on the Axis, NOT the plinth and comes as part of the assembly - THAT's the possible problem here Rob. A DC motor stuck to the top plate may work in desperate cases though to keep the deck going if the gearing is ok (a Thorens motor may do here), but it'll be a bit of a bodge and any rumble figures will go out the window.

This doesn't apply to the basik turntable as the motor is glued with self adhesive "suspension" rings to the plinth as in current Rega practice.

Thinking again, a standard Linn style motor could be glued to the remains of the supply board, taking its power from an external supply, but is the deck worth the bother? I personally think not, as there are so many better used buys out there in my opinion.

Just leave it in place and run a cable from the motor to an external supply.
Hercules should do it or one of those little Heed supplies. I think the basic level of engineering in the deck would be worth the effort.

Having said that, I can't imagine that anything on the PSU board is unobtainable.

You're quite right about running wires to a hercules or similar in a tailor made box. I'm sure something could be done.

We had a customer with a Basik Plus on an Axis and he bought a "T" cable for it after trying one for a weekend. He couldn't afford an otherwise far more expensive upgrade and it did tame the arm down a little.

If you can stretch to it, a used Technics SL-1200 MK2 is the only deck worth thinking about.

At £100->£200 there is absolutely nothing else worth considering.

At £100->£200 there is absolutely nothing else worth considering.

I'd throw a few Lencos into the ring at this point, but perhaps they couldn't be considered 'beginner's' decks as they usually need some work to get anything close to their potential. By saying that a completely stock L70 sounds surprisingly good and certainly gets the fundamentals right (assuming the idler is ok).

Tony.

Well I've got a GL82 that still needs a drive belt and a mat, and I've yet to find anyone in Cardiff who I "feel good" about repairing my Dual CS505 :(

I will get there. Dammit, I will!

At £100->£200 there is absolutely nothing else worth considering.

Oh dear.

An SL1300 I bought for approx. £50 sounds pretty good to me and can pass off as a beginner's deck.

The Technics 1210 Mk2 got recommended earlier. That's a club deck, surely?

Gees.

You're too picky for a beginner!

As a beginner, you don't want anything complicated. Sprung decks such as the LP12, Thorens 160/150 etc can be a real handful to set up well. Mind you if you don't mind fiddling, a Thorens TD160 would easily be in your price range. It's just that you need a bit of patience and perseverance.

Personally I would go for a rigid suspension deck, with a view to trading up later if you felt that you wanted to continue in the vinyl theme. A cheap Rega (P2 or P3), Project or an earlier Michell, like a Focus One, might be the way to go.

Bundle one of those with a reasonable cart and a cheap phono stage like the Cambridge 640 and you're done.

Charlie

Systemdek 11X900 with a Rega or similar (adjustable from above with no real motor or PSU issues unlike an Axis) and beats the a--- off a Rega TT.
Should be available for your price

What makes a deck a club deck?

easy: if its being used by a twat dj bigging up his 'audience' who are so stupid they actually think its his shite music their prancing like c**ts to.. then its a club deck.

P3, basik, systemdek (all simple belt drives, & brit) or dj deck sl1200 (DD/ not as simple a beastie, & jap): it has to be boiled down to these. I know which two Id not even consider!

I guess that rules an LP12 out then as the night would be over after waiting for the DJ to tweak it and get it set up :-)

I got a P3 and SL1210MK5 side by side right now and it is a very close run thing.

There is a LPT on Hififorsale.com for £175 seems like a good deal..

no arm though.. £275 with a rb250/ goldring 10**. Still not bad mind, but Id want a rb300 min on that tt min.

I guess that rules an LP12 out then as the night would be over after waiting for the DJ to tweak it and get it set up :-)

I got a P3 and SL1210MK5 side by side right now and it is a very close run thing.


What? The 1210 is supposed to blow a Rega away (and an LP12 and practically everything else under a couple of grand plus arm...).

As the SL1210 was about 40% of the cost of the Rega then yes it does.

Ignoring costs they seem to do things differently - Rega has a deeper bass - SL1210 has loads more detail.

But cartridge and phono stage affect it all to.

Hmm.... I know for a goodly few Technics 1210Mk2's.... are they worth considering? I can't stretch to a mk5. And can anyone recommend a source of tweaks and upgrades for these beasties?

As the SL1210 was about 40% of the cost of the Rega then yes it does.

Ignoring costs they seem to do things differently - Rega has a deeper bass - SL1210 has loads more detail.

But cartridge and phono stage affect it all to.

Are we talking new or used prices here? or is it the P3-24? I'm way behind on prices these days...

As the SL1210 was about 40% of the cost of the Rega then yes it does.

Ignoring costs they seem to do things differently - Rega has a deeper bass - SL1210 has loads more detail.

But cartridge and phono stage affect it all to.

rega has a deeper bass? this completely contradicts whats been said over the last few weeks re the dj deck vs others.. very odd.

don't get a dj deck Mr Edges.. get a decent british hifi deck.

The Technics 1210 Mk2 got recommended earlier. That's a club deck, surely?

Most cutting lathes use the Technics drive system simply because there isn't a better one available. It has become the default choice of most nightclubs because they can be operated by pissed up DJs night after night, week after week, year after year without issue. It really is the ultimate "beginner's" deck.

If you read into the history of the 1200, it is a direct descendant of the Panasonic Special Products Division's attempt at a cost-no-object ultimate turntable and was never originally intended for "club use".

-edit- anyone calling the Technics a "DJ Deck" doesn't own one and find it infuriating that a £400 of-the-shelf Jap turntable will run rings around their 3k belt-drive clunker. :P

I own a 1210 "clone" already - but that was rescued from a skip, and is probably going back there as soon as I get a decent deck.

I've gone and looked at a few websites - This one in particular (http://www.arar93.dsl.pipex.com/mds975/Content/vinyl01.html) that give some useful information - what I haven't found yet is a source of parts/upgrades for the 1210. I'd love to be looking for a Mk5, but can't afford one new or second hand - so the mk2 it is.

Anyone got an upgrade source for the 1210 Mk2? Please bear in mind I don't use Ebay on principle.

I give up! :)

www.kabusa.com

don't get a dj deck Mr Edges.. get a decent british hifi deck.

I'd love to - there are some stunning pieces of kit for sale in the forum, for instance - but they're out of my price range.

Having been down to Richer sounds and taken a good look at the Project RPM 1, I'd rather eat worms. If it was a woman, I wouldn't touch it with a stolen dick. I'll trying to find somewhere to look at the Debut III, but it's lack of pitch control leaves me suspicious.

Basically, the 1210 Mk2 appears to be a second hand bargain, which is why I'm going to go and listen to one.

rega has a deeper bass? this completely contradicts whats been said over the last few weeks re the dj deck vs others.. very odd.

don't get a dj deck Mr Edges.. get a decent british hifi deck.


If you want to "blame" anyone, blame KK, who tried a gold trimmed 1210 around eight to ten years ago and found it to be superb as a domestic HiFi record player (fitting it with a Lyra cartridge costing more than the turntable IIRC).

Sure we don't usually need the pich control and I find, through over-familiarity, the external strobe markings a bit vulgar (yet I don't on a 401 for some reason), but the basic quality of the thing is outstanding bearing in mind the price hasn't hugely changed in ten years and is only around double what the SL1500 mk2 (first generation with the high torque quartz speed locking IIRC) was in the late seventies...

Regarding Pro-Ject Debut's, they were great ten years ago as an introduction to vinyl replay (as long as you were careful of the superglued together arm bits), but now with ebay, there's a whole world of good used decks about (as well as the new cheap Rega siblings).

Found a 1210 MkIIa for £50 earlier today, and walked away. Knackered, with "motor problems". Shame, as cosmetically it was in good condition, with an unusual chrome plated top deck.

Someone had obviously been scr-scr-scr-scratching-atching-atching-ching-ching with the poor thing. Damn those wannabe DJ's!

I hate to think of all the research Panasonic put into that drive system only to have some cac-handed cone-nosed toss-pot do his best to destroy it. On the other hand, watching Qbert manipulate a pair of 1200s is nothing short of breathtaking.

Qbert? The little Atari game character?

Hehe. I was talking about DJ Qbert but it's entirely possible that his name is a reference to said character.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_C5wJh4dK0

Found a 1210 MkIIa for £50 earlier today, and walked away. Knackered, with "motor problems". Shame, as cosmetically it was in good condition, with an unusual chrome plated top deck.

Someone had obviously been scr-scr-scr-scratching-atching-atching-ching-ching with the poor thing. Damn those wannabe DJ's!

surely with the dj deck, 95% of them s/h will have been used by such tw*ts (dj's) scratc-ch-ching away, tugging away at the arms like a 14 yr old on his dick & lugging them around every friday for another toss-pot 'happnin' rave..

..have you not ebayed 'systemdek', 'rega' or 'linn turntable'?? I dunnae understand me.

I find, through over-familiarity, the external strobe markings a bit vulgar (yet I don't on a 401 for some reason)

Dots versus dashes? I agree with you, though. I prefer the sound of my SL-1210, but I prefer the look of the SL-1510. Perhaps I should move the Akito?

surely with the dj deck, 95% of them s/h will have been used by such tw*ts (dj's) scratc-ch-ching away, tugging away at the arms like a 14 yr old on his dick & lugging them around every friday for another toss-pot 'happnin' rave..

..have you not ebayed 'systemdek', 'rega' or 'linn turntable'?? I dunnae understand me.

Ok, when was the last time you listened to an SL1200/SL1210 ? The mk2 is perfect for home use. The mk5 has extra gizmos that are really only of use for DJ type stuff, like 16% pitch control.

I wouldn't touch an ex-DJ SL1200.

Get a new one from KABUSA. It's under 500 USD, IIRC. He checks every deck he sells.

I had delivered yesterday a SL1200 mark 2 and it is imaculate. Looks like it has only ever been used for home use. Cost £128. Swapped the cart for the Denon on the old P3 and it sounds fantastic. Much more suited to my needs than the P3.

I wouldn't touch an ex-DJ SL1200.

Get a new one from KABUSA. It's under 500 USD, IIRC. He checks every deck he sells.

Good for US, and maybe canadian, residents but the shipping plus import duty puts that price up by 25%. so that 500+40 shipping has become 675when delivered. I think the exchange rates are still good, but that's changing too. (€/$ has changed by 10% in the last couple of weeks). Using $675 as the end price to pay, then expressed in € it's 480€.

New SL1200/SL1210 can be had for 400€ in France. The Kabusa route is viable when wishing to get a KAB upgraded model, imo.

cheers

Just get a Gyrodec SE, you know it makes sense :D:D

You're evil mean and nasty, Callahan. Take installment payments?

You're evil mean and nasty, Callahan. Take installment payments?

Mwahahaha :p

Maybe something could be arranged.....

Darn. I've been snared by a hi-fi pusher!

Bet the 1200's better.......

Bet the 1200's better.......

Not sure, never tried scratchin' on me Gyro.

Well, the LP12's better than a Gyrodeck and an SL1200 is supposedly better again, as is a Spacedeck, so........................................

I'll stick with 'supposedly'.

Back away from the keyboard......

TBH, an SL1210 is what I can afford, but the quality and aesthetics of the Gyrodeck are something to be aspired to, I feel.

Callahan - pint of blood a week for the next five years?

2nd hand SL1210 + DL-160/DL-103

TBH, an SL1210 is what I can afford, but the quality and aesthetics of the Gyrodeck are something to be aspired to, I feel.

Callahan - pint of blood a week for the next five years?

Technics build quality is fine, only the lid dissapointing I find.

UM, second hand SL150, Rega plate, R200 arm and DL110......

Never tried this combo but the mk1 SL150 is ok (£50 - £75), the arm is great (around/under £50 and can be 'Origami'd) and the 110 works in almost anything...

I've no personal experience but theres a Pioneer PL71 on ebay £250 from memory. Theres also some PL12Ds Not sure about those

I renovated some PL12D's in the nineties and sold hundreds twenty years earlier.

Sadly, the PL12D suffers from hot vibrating motors which can seize, requiring dismantling. The arm looks good on the surface and the lateral balance weight benefits from the Rega R200 trick of cutting some wire insulation with an inner diameter the same as the rider shaft and sliding it on, pushing the weight tight against the insulation which you've cut to length.

Does the PL12D sound any good after this? NO sadly. It's very veiled and mats don't help. the AT95e is where it's at cartridge wise, any other doesn't sound any better as I remember.

TBH, an SL1210 is what I can afford, but the quality and aesthetics of the Gyrodeck are something to be aspired to, I feel.

Callahan - pint of blood a week for the next five years?

If the Gyro is what you really want, hold off a while until you afford one because they are superb decks.
The DJ deck may look an attractive purchase right now but all the hype and bluster will fade in a year or so and folk folk will return to decks that have proven sonically superior over the years. Hi-fi is very prone to fads and fashion sadly, and you shouldn't feel compelled to follow it.

On a Gyro the Rega RB250 is a nice arm to start. Moving forward you can upgrade to just about anything that will fit.

The DJ deck may look an attractive purchase right now but all the hype and bluster will fade in a year or so and folk folk will return to decks that have proven sonically superior over the years. Hi-fi is very prone to fads and fashion sadly, and you shouldn't feel compelled to follow it.

There's always dozens of teccies available on eBay, I reckon that one could even buy, and resell, at a profit. I think that it's a no risk proposition. I bought one, to see what the fuss was about, and I believe that the anti Direct Drive press of the 70s/80s is false, at least as far as the SL1200/SL1210. Other users of DD tables now, like the PL71, have happily sold Spacedecks and the like. Can't help thinking that in the 70s/80s so many people listened to LP12/??/Kans, that the more neutral DD tables sounded to weedy through those systems.

Anyway, what do I know ? I belived the belt drive hype too.

regards

Peter

Rob, this "DJ" deck and its heavier duty brethren from Japan were completely ignored by ignorant, blinkered fools in HiFi shops in the early eighties (like me at the time), who were totally self absorbed, reading "The Flat Response" and licking Rega, Linn and Naim's boots.

Certainly, these three manufacturers (mainly, but there were others in their wake) gave our industry a good shaking up which was much needed, but the rubbish spoken of "speed hunting" direct drives and even tone controls damnit was immense. Even Ivor told me himself that had the LP12 been designed a few years later, it could have had a direct driven platter - true!

Perhaps you've owned a few Technics decks over the years Rob and I'll happily admit that your P9 is (and bloody well should be) on a different level of refinement. But I was amazed just how good an old SL1700 (yes, auto return too!!!) sounded when I put a new cartridge in one a few years ago (a Goldring "10" series I think) and the 1200mk2 onwards should be a bit better than that.

Much as I admire Rega products (despite the once subtly patronising and sanctimonious attitude of the company) I still think I'd go for the SL1200/1210 series and work with that, as old Regas run at slightly the wrong speed and wow badly if you're not careful (unless they've had the motor upgraded, which costs almost as much as a used P2!).

Rob, this "DJ" deck and its heavier duty brethren from Japan were completely ignored by ignorant, blinkered fools in HiFi shops in the early eighties (like me at the time), who were totally self absorbed, reading "The Flat Response" and licking Rega, Linn and Naim's boots.

Certainly, these three manufacturers (mainly, but there were others in their wake) gave our industry a good shaking up which was much needed, but the rubbish spoken of "speed hunting" direct drives and even tone controls damnit was immense. Even Ivor told me himself that had the LP12 been designed a few years later, it could have had a direct driven platter - true!

Perhaps you've owned a few Technics decks over the years Rob and I'll happily admit that your P9 is (and bloody well should be) on a different level of refinement. But I was amazed just how good an old SL1700 (yes, auto return too!!!) sounded when I put a new cartridge in one a few years ago (a Goldring "10" series I think) and the 1200mk2 onwards should be a bit better than that.

Much as I admire Rega products (despite the once subtly patronising and sanctimonious attitude of the company) I still think I'd go for the SL1200/1210 series and work with that, as old Regas run at slightly the wrong speed and wow badly if you're not careful (unless they've had the motor upgraded, which costs almost as much as a used P2!).


David, I'm not saying these are bad decks - they are quite competent IMO but if you are going to buy a DD you really should aim higher, particularly as the cost difference is fairly small, certainly once you start factoring in the cost of the various tweeks and mods that folk apply to these decks.
Just fork out for a bloody SP10, big Micro etc in the first place. Those are the decks that can take on the LP12/Gyro/PT/Roksan etc class of deck.

As for auto return on the 1700 - this is actioned by an additional small motor and disengages form the arm once the function has been performed - sonically you can ignore it.

The Pioneer decks look very nicely made but I wouldn't comment on them as I've not heard them.

This idea that everone and their Aunt were brainwashed by the FR and Linn Men back in the 80s has a small degree of truth to it, but come on, it's an over-used excuse and frankly makes those claiming to have been brainwashed look very silly indeed. Influenced - perhaps, brainwashed - no.

As for auto return on the 1700 - this is actioned by an additional small motor and disengages form the arm once the function has been performed - sonically you can ignore it.

Very true; my 1410 sounds almost as good as my 1510 & 1210...

The real problem with the autoreturn on the 1700, and the others in the 1x00 series (except the 1200), is that, more often than not, the arm-raise is now broken (because of an irreparable design flaw), so all autoreturn achieves is scraping the stylus over the surface of the LP. Fortunately, most also have a switch to turn it off.

Very silly indeed! ME? Oh yes, absolutely!!! :D

I now regret the Japanese firms like Technics, Sony and Yamaha (others too I'm sure) not being able to feature their undoubtedly great products in the eighties over here because of supposedly superior home grown products dominating the market. All we saw was the often second rate products from these companies..

Do any of the Rega decks have leveling feet or are shims etc. the mode?

Regarding cueing lift not working, I think the early quartz decks (1300/1400/1500mk2 and possibly the 1610/1710/1810) suffered this, due to a wide nylon ring/tube around the arm pillar fracturing (spares not available), but I'm not sure if this applies to the earlier generations. It certainly doesn't to the current one, as the design seems slightly different.

Do any of the Rega decks have leveling feet or are shims etc. the mode?

The Rega feet (on the lower caste ones anyway) should be LOOSELY mounted underneath and any levelling done by adjusting the mount it's on.

Regarding cueing lift not working, I think the early quartz decks (1300/1400/1500mk2 and possibly the 1610/1710/1810) suffered this, due to a wide nylon ring/tube around the arm pillar fracturing (spares not available), but I'm not sure if this applies to the earlier generations. It certainly doesn't to the current one, as the design seems slightly different.

Yes; it doesn't apply to the 1200, in any generation, as they have a quite different arm base to the other decks - with a large, circular arm height adjuster all round the base (rather than the thumb set-screw on the side of the vertical yoke that the others had). As a result, the cueing lift is just a simple dash-pot affair, like most other manual arms, rather that the fragile cam-based one.

Regarding cueing lift not working, I think the early quartz decks (1300/1400/1500mk2 and possibly the 1610/1710/1810) suffered this, due to a wide nylon ring/tube around the arm pillar fracturing (spares not available), but I'm not sure if this applies to the earlier generations.
An SL1300 mk.I is not a quartz deck.

You're quite correct - silly me :D I can't even go back and edit it now either 'cos you've quoted me......

The 1300mk1 is a superb percussion instrument though if you "play" the plinth with your fingers whilst playing a record........... I still have a soft spot for it though and maybe lots of plasticene inside to damp it down...?

I also has a soft spot for an SL1300, too cuz, it was my first record player I got!

A lot-of-plastic, but it's heavy. :D

Very silly indeed! ME? Oh yes, absolutely!!! :D

I now regret the Japanese firms like Technics, Sony and Yamaha (others too I'm sure) not being able to feature their undoubtedly great products in the eighties over here because of supposedly superior home grown products dominating the market. All we saw was the often second rate products from these companies..

The number of nerdy, specialist, audiophile retail outlets was still small compared to where most folk wanting a decent system would have shopped.
The ability of a few magazines and flat earth dealers to turn whole swathes of the uk buying public into zombies is grossly overstated IMO.

It's so long ago Rob, but there was a recession going on as I remember and the "few" dealers (actually I think there were quite a few back then) were doing well while the others without certain key agencies weren't and IIRC a lot of them went to the wall.

There were articles in the mags concerning far eastern gear we couldn't access to in the UK easily in the early eighties, not even from Germany and some of it was apparently was very good indeed. I feel a bit cheated now when I look back, as there was such wonderful gear out there but the UK importers chose not to bother as they thought there'd be no market for it and Technics for example became a downmarket "rubbish" brand here.

Anyway, there are some excellent recommendations on this thread.

It's not just the importers fault. Over the years I have tried and tried to sell up-market Japanese gear from Technics, Denon, Marantz and Accuphase etc but the good'ol British buyer doesn't want to know. The Accuphase is far toooooooo expensive in GB but the others were quite reasonable. This still didn't persuade the customers who nine times out of ten just couldn't even be bothered with the exotica. American gear sells, for some reason but not Japanese.

With the 1210 MK6 on the way I'm hoping to see some prices fall on Mk2's and 5's, so I can buy into the 1210, and (hopefully) upgrade/tweak it along the way to get the sound I want.

I would buy better/new if I could. I am on an incredibly tight budget, so what seems like a small difference to you guys seems like a mountain to me sometimes.

With the 1210 MK6 on the way I'm hoping to see some prices fall on Mk2's and 5's, so I can buy into the 1210, and (hopefully) upgrade/tweak it along the way to get the sound I want.

I would buy better/new if I could. I am on an incredibly tight budget, so what seems like a small difference to you guys seems like a mountain to me sometimes.

Dream on. By the looks of it, the mk6 is just a nose job on the existing mk5. The numbers, 2500 units, are insignificant compared with the millions of other 1200/1210s out there. Don't despair tho', you'll find one at a price you like. IMHo better new than the SL1200/SL1210 is loadsa money.

I was told they build one big batch at a time and a mk6 may just be a justification for a price rise... Perhaps sales are falling on this old deck too.

Oh yeah. There's a lot of competition in the main marketplace of the 1210 - the teenage bedroom. Gemini, Vestax, Stanton, everyone and their dog is putting "DJ" kit out to target this niche. It was inevitable that 1210 sales would suffer eventually, but it's still the kit that a lot of the teenage wannabe's aspire to.

There's a couple of versions of the MK6 going out - a 1000-run limited edition with gold disk, and the mainstream - which I thought was general release, so hopefully there will be some market downflooding with second-hand 1210 2/5 units.

Only the humble SL1300 but this is a perfect beginner's deck.
Auto-return is a beautiful thing.
http://www.kumadesign.com/PIX/SL1300/sl1300_orangelight.jpg
It's really a fun deck as I remembered.

Oh absolutely, but watch out for feedback (deadness of sound due to cancellations) in small UK rooms (we didn't have the kind of specialist supports back then available now).

The SL1600/1700/1800 had sprung suspension which was much better and the first quartz decks (1300/1400/1500mk2's) were more solid.