Anybody else find the NAIM forum and it's resident pixie becoming more and more like an Iranian-controlled state media? This forum is like arriving in Freedonia by comparison...

I thought it was rather amusing when the self appointed head of school was publicly chastised by the headmaster and the assistant head recently. <g>

Oh? I'd love to read that thread. Got a link?

From the AUP:

pfm sits harmoniously in the audio community along with many other audio forums. As such, it is not acceptable to bring any personal argument from another place onto this forum.

Keep it in mind, please.

Ohmmm.....

Mike, for what its worth i agree totally.

Forums run by a manufacturer, for that manufacturer have to be moderated pretty hard IMO.
The situation is a little different for places like PFM, WW, AoS, ZG which are non-aligned, and with the exception of the PFM record shop not a sales tool.

The best place on the net for Naim talk is the Naim forum. System pics rules. You ask a question and get a straight anwser not a grammar lesson. Frenchmen from Canada shame on us. Adam Meredith is doing his job plain and simple. If you don't like it yak somewhere else. As for me it is part of my every day routine. PS I love Naim's boogie factor.

Hey Ynwoman 100% analogue....Is the grammar on this posting up to your high standards..Oh and by the way every single human being on this planet is 100% analogue

From the school of Northern Ontario specializing in "Being a human"

Anybody else find the NAIM forum and it's resident pixie becoming more and more like an Iranian-controlled state media? This forum is like arriving in Freedonia by comparison...

I thought it was rather amusing when the self appointed head of school was publicly chastised by the headmaster and the assistant head recently

Mike and Derek
Great descriptions:D

I run a manufacturer webforum in another business area, I barely edit anything. Naim are just control freaks who fear change because they are no longer able to set a forward moving agenda, if they were cutting edge in any dept they needn't worry.

Perhaps the problem isn't "them" but "us"

'People' do like to hijack forums with their own agenda - it's not surprising that a manufacturer with a forum of their own chooses to control which agendas are considered.

You ask a question and get a straight anwser not a grammar lesson.

I remember the days when you could still get a grammar lesson!

Tony.

I remember the days when you could still get a grammar lesson!

Tony.

It would probably be deemed too competitive and not fair to those whose wurdzs aint so good

..Oh and by the way every single human being on this planet is 100% analogue
Really? I have at least twenty digits.....:D

The best place on the net for Naim talk is the Naim forum. System pics rules. You ask a question and get a straight anwser not a grammar lesson. Frenchmen from Canada shame on us. Adam Meredith is doing his job plain and simple. If you don't like it yak somewhere else. As for me it is part of my every day routine. PS I love Naim's boogie factor.

Hey Ynwoman 100% analogue....Is the grammar on this posting up to your high standards..Oh and by the way every single human being on this planet is 100% analogue

From the school of Northern Ontario specializing in "Being a human"

Who knows what point you are trying to make Miss Barrier (beyond stating the obvious) - every single human being on this planet is free to describe themselves in whatever manner they see fit.

However, your most informative points have been duly noted and have been filed appropriately......that reminds me, I must empty the bins.

P.S. As you seem to be asking for criticism, your syntax leaves some room for improvement. No doubt you will take my comments in a similar manner to the way in which I have taken yours.

P.P.S Inside scoup(sic), I see that you have deleted this particular bit of fanciful nonsense you wrote regarding the Naim Ovator:
Seems to me that Naim is very close to building intergrated (integrated) active speakers a la switch mode
Was that one of the 'straight anwser(s)'[sp] you were given by the helpful chaps on the Naim forum? Please feel free to write uninformed nonsense, but don't be surprised if it is questioned; if you write gibberish don’t be surprised if it is pointed out.

I have 21 digits IMO the Ovators do an awful lot right and for 6K seem to present good VFM. The boys from Naim openly admit that they are on a step learning curve with these speakers, there setup and how to get the best out of them. They show great promise and in the right setting will I am sure shine. The sound is however a real departure from the SL2!!

If you consider the Naim forum from a marketing perspective, is the rather draconian moderation a commercially profitable approach? I cannot make up my mind, but my guess is that it does them a very small amount of harm.

Nic P

The Naim forum is a load of sycophantic nonsense these days

I thought it was rather amusing when the self appointed head of school was publicly chastised by the headmaster and the assistant head recently. <g>

LOL! Yes, the "self-appointed head of school" seems to be making rather a habit of getting himself into hot water, somewhat!

a kill list would solve most of the problems i have with the naim forum

If you consider the Naim forum from a marketing perspective, is the rather draconian moderation a commercially profitable approach? I cannot make up my mind, but my guess is that it does them a very small amount of harm.

Nic P

It has been far more heavily moderated to their commercial interest in recent times. It didn't used to be.

Steve

The world is not analogue, only the illusion is very convincing.

Like I said, Naim's customers are moving forward into the PC music revolution faster than Naim has products to appease their needs.

A few months ago I was having a discussion with my local Naim dealer about the Naim forum/Lavry and moderation.

Interestingly he told me that when it was first setup they had a 'no moderation' rule and never intended to. The area rep who told him this is now much higher up the Naim ladder!

There is no real debate in certain parts of the forum, shame, interesting times ahead which are being ignored or stopped.

Interestingly he told me that when it was first setup they had a 'no moderation' rule and never intended to.

It was very much Julian Vereker's forum as I remember it - a fun and informative place and one where he spent a great deal of his time. It didn't need "moderation" as such as Julian was plenty able to get his point across! I liked it a lot in those days; it was small, focussed, funny, and you did get the definitive answer to all things Naim as JV was Naim.

Tony.

Perfect description of the old forum. JV's way with hecklers was a thing of beauty to behold;-) I suspect if JV was still around the forum would be largely the same.

Like I said, Naim's customers are moving forward into the PC music revolution faster than Naim has products to appease their needs.

good things come to those who wait.

Perfect description of the old forum. JV's way with hecklers was a thing of beauty to behold;-) I suspect if JV was still around the forum would be largely the same.

Very true, an annoyed JV was a wonder to behold! He had the advantage over Adam of being an engineer not a ....

Nic P

The other place is not a forum, its narrow minded twaddle. I asked a genuine question on there about a year ago, got banned, asked why and got some puerile patronising sycophantic "ooh ducky don't do that again" end of quote, was the reply - I'm very technically knowledgeable and have been to the factory many times when it was old JV Naim and met him on many occasions. Its not the same company at all, its marketing driven me too now. JV would have a fit - phonos my arse

My response was a word with 4 letters.

BTW the pixie moved abroad ages ago I believe - what he does slapping wrists from there I no not

He had the advantage over Adam of being an engineer not a ....

Nic P

IMO, the key explaining the difference in moderation styles between today and back when.

Adam often has no choice but to edit or nuke where as JV would have a heckler apologizing and washing and waxing his car outside of fifteen minutes. Personally, I think Adam does a good job with a difficult task in a difficult environment. It's a shame things have reached the point of censorship. We are to blame.

IMO, the key explaining the difference in moderation styles between today and back when.

Adam often has no choice but to edit or nuke where as JV would have a heckler apologizing and washing and waxing his car outside of fifteen minutes. Personally, I think Adam does a good job with a difficult task in a difficult environment. It's a shame things have reached the point of censorship. We are to blame.

I'd kind of expect you to say that, Dave. Many think otherwise. I don't think a confident organisation needs sarky interjections and "favoured" posters who can seem to be as rude as they like, so long as they toe the party line.

You can (as one poster indicates) find people banned for simply challenging evidence, or lack of it. That would never have happened in JV's day.

I totally agree Steve! This has been music to my ears! I have been banned for comments i the past and have felt the rough, sarky tongue of Adam and Stu (aka Munch) - a much favoured commentator despite being unnecessarily rude. These sort of smug, cliquey people almost destroyed my interest in Hifi.

IMO, the key explaining the difference in moderation styles between today and back when.

Adam often has no choice but to edit or nuke where as JV would have a heckler apologizing and washing and waxing his car outside of fifteen minutes. Personally, I think Adam does a good job with a difficult task in a difficult environment. It's a shame things have reached the point of censorship. We are to blame.

I think Adam has to accept the lions share of the blame. Many posters on many fora (forums) are professional people giving their time, experience and sometimes wisdom for free, and hence deserve to be treated by the moderator with respect. In almost all cases the moderators can be judged by how light a touch they keep a forum civilised. IMO using this litmus test Adam is not a good moderator.

Nic P

Many posters on many fora (forums) are professional people giving their time, experience and sometimes wisdom for free, and hence deserve to be treated by the moderator with respect.

*Professional* people also are subjectivists. They should not be treated any differently form the rest.

I do agree everyone should be treated with respects and moderators' job is to keep the place pleasant for all whilst maintaining the interest and healthy disucssions/debate.

Go on the Linn Products forum boring.

*Professional* people also are subjectivists. They should not be treated any differently form the rest.

I do agree everyone should be treated with respects and moderators' job is to keep the place pleasant for all whilst maintaining the interest and healthy disucssions/debate.

My post was badly expressed ... I agree that everyone should be treated with respect. I was trying to express that good fora (forums) get a lot of time from people whose time is valuable (in a monetary sense) for free.

Nic P

I'd kind of expect you to say that, Dave. Many think otherwise. I don't think a confident organisation needs sarky interjections and "favoured" posters who can seem to be as rude as they like, so long as they toe the party line.

You can (as one poster indicates) find people banned for simply challenging evidence, or lack of it. That would never have happened in JV's day.

As I said, Adam does the best with what he has. I believe I also stated I wasn't happy with the situation as it stands. I wish I knew a solution- I don't other than not actively participating in the forum anymore.

Go on the Linn Products forum boring.

The Linn forum is to the Naim forum as an Anglican Mass is to a Fundamentalist Pentecostal Mass. Much less high strung, much more tolerant of diversity, and not nearly so much "speaking in tongues."

Do they practice snake handling though?

Shit Naim's got me

Go on the Linn Products forum boring.

The Linn forum is to the Naim forum as an Anglican Mass is to a Fundamentalist Pentecostal Mass. Much less high strung, more tolerant of diversity, and less "speaking in tongues."

Anybody else find the NAIM forum and it's resident pixie becoming more and more like an Iranian-controlled state media? This forum is like arriving in Freedonia by comparison...


I assumed the Diktat was a new (£2K) bolt on for the LP12 which enhances the foot tapping ability even more.

I have 21 digits IMO the Ovators do an awful lot right and for 6K seem to present good VFM. The boys from Naim openly admit that they are on a step learning curve with these speakers, there setup and how to get the best out of them. They show great promise and in the right setting will I am sure shine. The sound is however a real departure from the SL2!!


For six thousand pounds they should do everything about right.No six thousand pound speaker 'represents value for money,' they usually represent just another set of hideous flaws.;)

Shit Naim's got me thats what you get for being an anal log human being ;)

For six thousand pounds they should do everything about right.No six thousand pound speaker 'represents value for money,' they usually represent just another set of hideous flaws.;)

TBH, I haven't seen value with much of anything including all hifi prices since the mid seventies.

It's slow but what can you do

Pay the price or find a compromise (my solution;-)

A LP12

Sorry TRANSkRIPTION SONDEC $ $160.000.00............................It's only "TOP Linn Products" Komries must cook

Outputting acoustic waves from an LP-12 in a loud enough manner to drive a room would probably be difficult.

TBH, I haven't seen value with much of anything including all hifi prices since the mid seventies.

Going vintage is where the value is.

Either that or I am getting old & foggy.

I haven't seen value with much of anything including all hifi prices since the mid seventies

Funny or paradox - Early Naim amplifiers are among the very best value hifi prices allround.

Compared to much of the US round earth megastuff...even (some of ) the black stuff makes a good song.

Kuma- you're probably right though a gamble in most cases I would suspect.

Funny or paradox - Early Naim amplifiers are among the very best value hifi prices allround.

Compared to much of the US round earth megastuff...even (some of ) the black stuff makes a good song.

Back in the late seventies Naim was expensive here in the US if you compared it with high-end American gear by size of the case work and watts.

Eh Dave what bricks aktiv 3 lk 280 sparks lk1 1 dirak lingo'd lp12

Sorry Jack, I'm lost with your last post. If you're stating compare american boxes with the Linn Aktiv, the Aktiv system didn't exist back then.

Seems like a 42/SNAPS/110 retailed for approx $1600 bucks back in the late seventies. You got two and a half shoe boxes that output 40 watts. I had a Rappaport preamp and two Audionics mono blocks outputting 225 watts each for less money. Oddly, the 42/SNAPS/110 sounded better and played louder but that's beside the point--it wasn't "hi-tech" or "manly" looking.

Eh canada BRYSTON 4b

The lp12 can only play records that is IT

Clasee OH

I'm a tight wad. Six grand is extremely expensive IMO for an entire hifi system. You don't want to know what I think about a 48 grand TT;-)

The best in your home LP12 to the .... Naim maybe Densen Spendor

I love musicc

The lp12 can only play records that is IT


It can also make you lose all your girlfriends and wives.

"You spent how much on that little motor? That's Radikulous"

"You spent how much on that small slab of metal? You should be Keel hauled"

"You spent how much on that little box that you can't even see? I don't care if it's named after that Ulrika Johnson."

"You spent how much on that metal tube? Just Ekos you can, doesn't mean to say you should" etc etc etc

which idiots will tell their girlfriends how much they cost?

A lot If you whant It

It can also make you lose all your girlfriends and wives.

"You spent how much on that little motor? That's Radikulous"

"You spent how much on that small slab of metal? You should be Keel hauled"

"You spent how much on that little box that you can't even see? I don't care if it's named after that Ulrika Johnson."

"You spent how much on that metal tube? Just Ekos you can, doesn't mean to say you should" etc etc etc



Haha ... excellent, Lindsay! :D

(You shure you don't mean Ulrika Johansen? :p )

"Just because you can speak the Lingo doesn't mean you can have another black box in the living room."

Regards,

Andy

Latest 26 June 2009 http://forums.naim-audio.com/eve/forums/a/frm/f/48019385

Firstish of the revised forum 10-15 August 2000 http://forums.naim-audio.com/eve/forums/a/frm/f/48019385/p/1052

Nope, not much of a difference. It's still a manufacturer's forum which has some discussion of other manufacturer's products used with Naim. The majority of posts are still people validating their purchases.

And seriously what's the diff in impact between Merdith's moderating on the one hand and on the other in pfm the Dunn/Ash input that leads to every thread they participate in turning into a flame war and being locked?

regards,

Giles

I have 21 digits IMO the Ovators do an awful lot right and for 6K seem to present good VFM. The boys from Naim openly admit that they are on a step learning curve with these speakers, there setup and how to get the best out of them. They show great promise and in the right setting will I am sure shine. The sound is however a real departure from the SL2!!

Jack, dont you think that the boys from Naim are on a learning curve from the very first loudspeaker they produced. I think they should concentrate on what they can do best; make amplifiers. They are now trying to compete with cable and computer specialists. I wish them good luck. What is Naim now? Is it just a money generating company for their few share holders or is it an amplifier company dedicated to music lovers?

PS. : Excuse my poor English!

I've spotted Tony. ;)

and Bob A and Mike H and on the very first page (which was mainly whinging about the new forum) Vuk and Joel B and Rico and Cliff and...

I totally agree Steve! This has been music to my ears! I have been banned for comments i the past and have felt the rough, sarky tongue of Adam and Stu (aka Munch) - a much favoured commentator despite being unnecessarily rude. These sort of smug, cliquey people almost destroyed my interest in Hifi.

Quite. Ditto. Certainly destroyed my 'N' word enthusiasm/pride of ownership in short order and opened my eyes to harsh commercial realities. How to turn a proud customer into an slighted one, and deliver them into the hands of 'satan' in one easy lesson.

Jon...

Jonboi,

I see that you still haven't quite recovered.

Jonboi,

I see that you still haven't quite recovered.

He enjoys the pain too much, kuma :D

Everything has its day, and the Richard Dane years when I first entered the Naim forum were pretty good, but things always change for whatever reasons and protection of the product range had to play a part in the way the forum went.

Maybe the current range of Naim gear is more to do with marketing compared to the CB & Olive ranges which were more 'heart & soul' for the true hifi enthusiast. They had to protect that and map out a future for the company on the world market rather than remain a cottage industry to sell to a handful of geeks. I can understand that, and the image of the company had to smarten up accordingly. It's just what happens when you try to take a business to the next level.

Criticising the current Naim forum is unnecessary as they could just close it, but they keep it going as best they can. It isn't the same company as it was 10 years ago and the enthusiast side of things isn't as important to their long term plan as it used to be as I'm sure they want to be a high street name, and that is their goal. Their timing is crap though, and that leap might yet turn into a leap into the abyss. I'm sure they are getting very jumpy financially and maybe that's showing.

I think a lot of the comments here are unkind and ungrateful for the past years when they were who we wanted them to be. Give them a break. They're just trying to carve a future just like the rest of us. The 'in-the-spirit-of-the-garden-shed' days were good days, but they're over.

Jonboi,

I see that you still haven't quite recovered.

Thank you for your kind words of sympathy. As I write, I am recovering from a particularly virulent strain of flu, which has knocked me out of classes and well and truly off my feet for just over a week. Despite being vaccinated earlier in the year against type A & B Flu virus, I contracted a type A strain. However, Doc says it is the same as swine, but they can't confirm unless I got so sick as to be hospitalised.

The option/diagnosis was that I suffered a 'lessor' bout of the bug, due the vaccination, but as I've been quite ill, it appears more likely to have been the one with the 'S' word.

Perhaps my empathising with TUK may have been a by product of all the hot flushes, shivers, chills and sweating I'm currently going through... or is it that one about; 'the balance of his mind was disturbed at the time'...lol

Best

Jon...

Ah - ha...

No arguments form another forum please. See page 1 ...

Markus - moderating

Criticising the current Naim forum is unnecessary as they could just close it, but they keep it going as best they can. It isn't the same company as it was 10 years ago and the enthusiast side of things isn't as important to their long term plan as it used to be as I'm sure they want to be a high street name, and that is their goal.

To my mind it was clearly Julian's forum, I guess after his death the rest of Naim kind of inherited it without necessarily wanting it or knowing what to do with it. It is IMO a huge credit to them that they've kept it going, and given the overriding commercial concern I don't think they've done a bad job at all - moderating is far harder than people think - everything, including doing nothing at all, pisses someone off. The Naim Forum is a very different thing to say pfm, ZG, HFWW, AudioAsylum etc as it is a business discussion area, so it's wrong to assess it along those lines. As such I think this thread has run it's course so time to put it out of it's misery.

Tony.