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Jonathan Ribee
22-10-09, 08:54 AM
I've been using an Amazon Kindle for a couple of days now it's finally made it over the pond.

It's very TNG. Poke my eyes out and call me Jordie LaForge.

The actual reading experience is pretty good. Download speed is good on the 3G link. Browsing the store via 3G is a little slow. I could always use the computer I guess.

The range of titles available seems a bit weak still. Typing is Murakami and getting zero hits doesn't seem to good. Classics OK and "Richard and Judy" bestsellers OK - but serious modern novels seem to be sparse.

Any of our North American brethren use on of these and tried alternative sources for books other than the Amazon store?

Cheers,
Jonathan

Alex S
22-10-09, 10:18 AM
Arghhh - I saw you as a proper book, pipe, slippers man...

Jonathan Ribee
22-10-09, 10:33 AM
Alex

I'm running out of places to put bookshelves. :)

I did pick up a "legacy" book just now and had to adjust to complicated page turning. How do people deal with having to interact with the physical media in this way!!! :)

I am just testing it to see how useful it is. I can get newspapers, books, my own or business partners documents on it easily. The magazine choice is crap. There are only about a quarter of a million books available. Any novel (not a very recent release) seems to be about $4.

Quite difficult to lend people a book.

Last night I was laid on the sofa reading my Kindle and controlling streamed music from my mac via express/V-Dac controlled by an iPod Touch. I'm a Techno Tart!

(Oddly - the big downside is it doesn't smell like a book)

Jonathan

Joe P
22-10-09, 10:38 AM
JR,

I did pick up a "legacy" book just now and had to adjust to complicated page turning. How do people deal with having to interact with the physical media in this way!!! :)
Pah! I'm still on legacy scrolls (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pyjRj3UMRM).

Joe

Martin D
22-10-09, 11:04 AM
Huh

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/352684/amazon-hobbles-uk-kindle

Jonathan Ribee
22-10-09, 11:18 AM
Yeah - early adopters get screwed. I was looking for a suitable solution over a year ago and was found the kindle the best in terms of function + books, but then it was annoyingly US only. The Sony seemed OK - but wasn't compatible with the mac.

The complete works of Shakespeare for $3.44 isn't bad. Hardback bestsellers more like $13. Also - US editions, US spelling and different names for the same book sometimes.

I assume we will eventually get convergence of some kind of tablet PC device that will run a decent browser and have a screen you can read stuff on easily. In the same way the iPhone can be you music player, satnav, web browser, mail reader, handy portable apps - oh - and a phone apparently.

Interesting experiment though. The actual reading stuff on it part is good. Which is probably the hardest thing to get right.

The portability thing.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3155/3864575786_642b8c0a97.jpg

A Kindle is a theoretical 1.5x of the above in terms of storage. Hell, if it turns out to only be 0.5 I'd be OK with it.

Mostly it's the limited range of titles that is bugging me. You can normally find just about anything from an online book retailer. Then get it delivered. To be reading it one minute after you bought it is great - but the choice is crap at the moment.

Joe P
22-10-09, 11:22 AM
JR,

Is the screen high res and easy to read?

Joe

Joe Hutch
22-10-09, 12:10 PM
Mostly it's the limited range of titles that is bugging me. You can normally find just about anything from an online book retailer. Then get it delivered. To be reading it one minute after you bought it is great - but the choice is crap at the moment.

Speaking of the range of titles, any chance of taking that photo from a different angle so I can read the spines of the books? Cheers!

Martin D
22-10-09, 12:15 PM
;) Or scanning them all

Anex
22-10-09, 01:00 PM
JR,

Is the screen high res and easy to read?

Joe

The screens are a bit like an etcha-sketch, so resolution doesn't really come into it. It uses magnetic ink and pulls it all into place to create the words / pictures. They're really nice to look at it, I'd be interested in using one as a secondary screen for work as I spend most of the day reading.

JR - are you sure the Sony isn't Mac compatible? My dad got one a little while ago, seemed to indicate it was in the instructions, just wasn't very clear about it on the box. You can also move everything around on memory cards no?

Jonathan Ribee
22-10-09, 01:27 PM
JR,

Is the screen high res and easy to read?

Joe

Joe

Text is easy. It can do reasonable grey scale diagrams. This is one of it's screen savers (as it costs energy to change the screen but not to keep the text there)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3499/4035691264_ef620235f6_b.jpg

The above looks approx actual size on my screen.

JR

Jonathan Ribee
22-10-09, 01:30 PM
Speaking of the range of titles, any chance of taking that photo from a different angle so I can read the spines of the books? Cheers!

Hah! Difficult. Because of where these particular bookshelves are...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2513/4035690366_fa05f1113f.jpg

I'll have a go at blowing up that previous one.

Jonathan Ribee
22-10-09, 01:37 PM
JR - are you sure the Sony isn't Mac compatible? My dad got one a little while ago, seemed to indicate it was in the instructions, just wasn't very clear about it on the box. You can also move everything around on memory cards no?

Yeah - 12 months ago the Sony definitely said it wasn't mac compatible - but you did have to search a bit to get that info. Might have changed - would only be software. The Sony uses memory cards.

You can move things that don't have copy protection on and off the kindle as if it was a USB drive. So anything you can convert into a mobi file you can stick on the kindle. Through your amazon.com account you can email a doc there and convert it, then download it wireless through the 3G link or wire to an internet connected pc. Not all pdfs I think - only simple ones. But just about anything else. You can archieve anything from your kindle back to Amazon and download it when you need it.

Nifty device. Limited book choice as yet.

I'll bring it along on Saturday so you can have a play.

Jonathan Ribee
22-10-09, 01:40 PM
Speaking of the range of titles, any chance of taking that photo from a different angle so I can read the spines of the books? Cheers!

Not going to get anything better than this before daylight...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3155/3864575786_6c71198bb4_o.jpg

Tigerjones
22-10-09, 02:06 PM
Your house looks well inviting, JR.

Joe Hutch
22-10-09, 02:09 PM
Thanks! Some good stuff there.

I have a similar book overflow thing going on, made by worse by having three students in the family. Kindle may save my life*


* From Leonard Bast-style death-by-falling-bookcase.

Joe P
22-10-09, 02:09 PM
JR,

The display looks far better than I imagined. Tempting, but I'm still partial to legacy print technology.

Joe

Joe Hutch
22-10-09, 02:15 PM
JR,

The display looks far better than I imagined. Tempting, but I'm still partial to legacy print technology.

Joe

You do realise that in a couple years time there'll be no support for legacy reading systems?

Joe P
22-10-09, 02:18 PM
oJe;

Thatz unpossible,,,, Y U say that?

LOLZ

Jeo

Joe Hutch
22-10-09, 02:21 PM
Mheh! Another legacy reader bites the dust.

RossB
22-10-09, 02:24 PM
I've been tempted by the Kindle, or perhaps one of the competitors like the Sony Reader and Bebook, partly for the same reasons - my bookshelves are all full and most books now once read go straight to storage. Also, it is more convenient to carry a Kindle on the bus than a hardcover or one of the increasing number of ridiculously large trade paperbacks. However, my only concern is that I am pretty sure that I would end up buying most of the books in hard copy anyway, so it would end up doubling the cost. I'm perfectly happy having all my CDs on hard disk but the emotional attachment to a book is so much greater. The experience of picking up book that you read 10 or 20 years ago, and having the creases, the folded corners and the smell of the book bring back memories is something that will be gone forever with the Kindle.

Joe Hutch
22-10-09, 02:26 PM
Plus you're unlikely to find a tenner being used as a bookmark with the Kindle.

Anex
22-10-09, 02:39 PM
That's never happened to me with a book before, you're obviously loaded, Joe.

JTC
22-10-09, 03:16 PM
DO you know if the Kindle is able to display .chm files? I know it can do PDFs, but I have many hundreds of tech-based .chms that I'd love to have with me in a readable format*.

* I have them all on a 4Gb USB stick but it's getting less common to be able to simply connect a USB stick into a corporate desktop without a lot of bureaucratic grief and hoop-jumping...

Joe Hutch
22-10-09, 03:18 PM
That's never happened to me with a book before, you're obviously loaded, Joe.

My top find was a 50 Euro note!

Re-Joyce
23-10-09, 01:23 AM
Hi Jonathan,

How do you find the page transitions on the Kindle? All of the E-ink based readers I have used are poor at this with multiple screen "flashes".

Cheers
Jason

btw for those interested this is probably the future for displays for e-readers:
http://www.liquavista.com/default.aspx
Potential for bright reflective colour and video.

Jonathan Ribee
23-10-09, 09:48 AM
DO you know if the Kindle is able to display .chm files? I know it can do PDFs, but I have many hundreds of tech-based .chms that I'd love to have with me in a readable format*.

* I have them all on a 4Gb USB stick but it's getting less common to be able to simply connect a USB stick into a corporate desktop without a lot of bureaucratic grief and hoop-jumping...

Doesn't look like it unless you can convert from it to a supported format via something else.

Content Formats Supported: Kindle (AZW), TXT, Audible (Audible Enhanced (AA, AAX)), MP3, unprotected MOBI, PRC natively; PDF, HTML, DOC, JPEG, GIF, PNG, BMP through conversion.

Conversion can be done by emailing the file to your kindle account at Amazon and then downloading the conversion.

Jonathan Ribee
23-10-09, 09:50 AM
Hi Jonathan,

How do you find the page transitions on the Kindle? All of the E-ink based readers I have used are poor at this with multiple screen "flashes".

Cheers
Jason

btw for those interested this is probably the future for displays for e-readers:
http://www.liquavista.com/default.aspx
Potential for bright reflective colour and video.

Jason

It flashes. Can't be too bad because I had to check to make sure. Didn't notice when reading.

Jonathan

garyi
23-10-09, 10:37 AM
Pah all these road maps, show me something working!

Jon this may be worth a looksee, and the price is right:

http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/30554/doubletwist

Mark EJ
24-10-09, 06:45 AM
Quite difficult to lend people a book.

Isn't that the whole point of the thing? Effectively, thin end of DRM wedge. Control, control, control -- conversions via your account, so they can see what you're doing.

Rico
25-10-09, 03:21 PM
Had a look at this on Amazon recently, looks interesting. I think the rumoured 10" tablet from Apple will provide a different perspective, although perhaps not with the reading experience of the tech of the readers (whatever it is that puts the text up without needing power to maintain display)... if I was traveling a lot a reader would make a lot of sense.

jackbarron
25-10-09, 06:20 PM
I assume we will eventually get convergence of some kind of tablet PC device that will run a decent browser and have a screen you can read stuff on easily. In the same way the iPhone can be you music player, satnav, web browser, mail reader, handy portable apps - oh - and a phone apparently.

I think you are right. I have held off buying a Sony, because the Kindle seems like a better deal.

Nice to know Amazon are now shipping the unit to the UK.

Jack

Rasher
26-10-09, 01:54 AM
I remember a time before buying books on the internet when I was after some Richard Braughtigan books that were not published in the UK. I waited until a friend came over from LA to spend Christmas with us, and he brought me a bundle of stuff that I had wanted for so long.
Just sometimes when everything is so easily accessible, something is lost. Maybe it's happening to music too - a sort of sense of occasion is being lost.

I have 50% of the allocation of book shelf space at home and when it's full, I have a cull and it goes. My sister on the other hand has never thrown a book away, and as books are her life - she would spend Saturdays browsing bookshops when she was a student - you can imagine the boxes of stored books she has in various places. I remember one year making the mistake of helping her to move.

Never again!

There is a parallel with vinyl here, isn't there. I had this conversation with a friend on Friday night about this very thing with music. She reckons that as music becomes downloadable, instant and free (Spotify), it will drive serious music underground. I hadn't realised that this is a good thing. It revitalises an underground movement for people that want to go seek out more esoteric stuff - like vinyl junkies. This is exactly what I now miss from when I was a kid starting to buy LPs - you had to work to find it, and it WAS underground and out of the mainstream.

I hadn't identified downloading as a good thing before; for people like me that collect music, but she's enlightened me, and she's right. We have our 'thing' back! This Kindle thing is the same - and therefore it must be good too.

RossB
29-10-09, 09:00 PM
After being overcome by curiosity, I have just ordered a Kindle.

Also, checking the Kindle bookstore, although there are some serious limitations on the titles available, it is possible to buy the complete works of, say, Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Henry James, EM Forster, Turgenev, Chekhov, Dickens and many others for about 5 bucks apiece. This alone is probably worth the cost.

However, I'm not looking at this as a substitute for buying physical books, just a way to read them more conveniently when on the move.

vuk
15-12-09, 11:39 AM
After being overcome by curiosity, I have just ordered a Kindle.

Also, checking the Kindle bookstore, although there are some serious limitations on the titles available, it is possible to buy the complete works of, say, Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Henry James, EM Forster, Turgenev, Chekhov, Dickens and many others for about 5 bucks apiece. This alone is probably worth the cost.

However, I'm not looking at this as a substitute for buying physical books, just a way to read them more conveniently when on the move.

ross.

how has it worked out?


vuk.

mmterror
15-12-09, 11:59 AM
My Gf has noticed that certain titles on the kindle are now more expensive than the paper version.

Isnt that kind of missing the point?

vuk
15-12-09, 12:08 PM
My Gf has noticed that certain titles on the kindle are now more expensive than the paper version.

Isnt that kind of missing the point?


probably crap like dan brown, as opposed to joseph conrad.



vuk.

RossB
15-12-09, 01:35 PM
ross.

how has it worked out?


vuk.
It has been an interesting experiment, and I have now read a few books on the kindle.

As expected, the limitations on book titles is a big issue. After finding the few current titles I was interested in reading, there is not much left. Of course, most of the classics are available extremely cheaply through Amazon (or free from elsewhere), so I have the complete works of Chekhov, Austen, Henry James etc and this is quite valuable for filling holes in the collection.

The reading interface is quite good - after a while you don't realise that you're reading an electronic device, and the eInk technology works very well. The screen size is quite small, so you have to flip pages frequently, but the momentary freeze between pages does not bother me. The ability to change font size is quite useful.

There are, however, a few big issues for me. There are no page numbers. The Kindle displays the percentage of the book completed, and some other measure which is somewhere between lines and paragraphs, but neither is intuitive. I have suggested to Amazon that they provide an option for conventional book pages using an arbitrary number of words, which could be easily done as part of a firmware upgrade - let's see if they are listening to customer feedback.

It also hasn't replaced my desire to own the physical book. Each of the books I have read on the Kindle (if I did not already own it), I have also bought in hard copy (with one exception, Gore Vidal's "The Judgment of Paris", which I could not find anywhere locally). But then I am a bit of a bibliophile, and perhaps other (or younger) people will not feel compelled to own a physical object every time they read a book.

More importantly, for some reason the whole experience of reading a book on the Kindle does not provide the same kind of satisfying experience that reading a physical book does. Partly it's just the total experience of the book - cover, heft, smell, flipping the pages, peeking at the last chapter etc - but I always felt something was missing with the Kindle experience. Also, when a book was finished, there is a satisfaction in closing it for the last time and putting it on a shelf (or these days, in my case, in a box for storage) and picking up another one, with a different cover, size, smell etc. With the Kindle, once the book is finished, you just press a couple of buttons and there is a new one on the same device - there is no sense of completion and moving on to something different.

So overall, the Kindle has been a qualified success. It works and is a pleasant reading experience, but it just lacks something that real books possess. In some circumstances, it would be ideal - eg travel, a hospital stay etc. - as well as reading books that are too unwieldy to take on the bus (eg the latest hardcover version of War & Peace). I'm glad I bought it, but it won't be replacing my real library any time soon.

DuncanF
05-07-10, 04:04 AM
Guys,

I'm thinking about getting a Kindle to take on hols with me. Useful stuff in this thread, but I have a couple of questions. Small or big? I see Jonathan had the smaller Kindle, but that may have been because the DX was not available last year. So does anyone have experiences with the larger format? Is it as easy to hold etc.. Looking at the dimensions, it seems to be roughly the same size as an iPad, just a tad lighter.

Second, I'm a bit of a book dipper. I'll wade through a book and then some other will catch my eye. And I'll start on that too. So at the moment if you wander round my house you'll find four of five bookmarked books on various tables. Can you similarly bookmark Kindle books and return to them later?

The iPad is not for me. I've seen and played with one. Lovely though it is, it's too expensive and does a myriad of things which are of little or not interest to me, most of which my iPhone can already to just as well.

Duncan

Jonathan Ribee
05-07-10, 04:38 AM
Duncan

I have not tried the larger Kindle.

I am also a person who reads several books at once. It is perfectly possible to have the same number of books open on the Kindle and flip between them. It will open the book at the last place you left it. Also, if you use the Kindle app on your iPhone or computer to cram a couple of chapters in, you can set up a sync so that when you open the book on the Kindle again it will ask you if you want to sync to first page read on the other device(s).

I have used both iBooks and the Kindle app on iPad. The increased screen size is nice. The screen is not as good for sustained reading as the Kindle (although you can read without another source of illumination if you like) and it is heavy enough for you not to want to hold it in your hands only for extended period. If the big Kindle is (as you say - I haven't checked) only a little lighter than the iPad then it may have this same issue. Depends how you usually hold the book. Certainly the iPad screen size is nice - so I am tempted to try a DX. If you get a DX please let us know what you think about the weight.

Remember to check to see if the books you'd like to read are available for kindle. I still have to buy "legacy" books to get many authors.

Jonathan

DuncanF
05-07-10, 05:02 AM
Thanks Jonathan. I've think the DX will be too large to comfortably hold one handed. I tried with an iPad and gave up after a while. I've ordered the smaller one.

I have a friend who is a physio and is rubbing her hands with glee at the thought of a stream of iPad owner making their way towards her practice .... we'll see.

Duncan

dan m
05-07-10, 07:38 AM
They've just lowered the price of the small Kindle in the US to $189-, and I'm tempted. I downloaded the Kindle reader to my MacBook Air to browse the available content, and now I have Alice and Wonderland and Moby Dick to read for an upcoming transatlantic flight. I like the idea of having a newspaper delivered electronically each morning and being able to read it without sitting at the computer or firing up the MBA.

Does anyone know the capacity of these things? I have 1.5 GB of journal articles (>600) in pdf format it would be good to have easy access to.

DuncanF
05-07-10, 08:07 AM
Does anyone know the capacity of these things? I have 1.5 GB of journal articles (>600) in pdf format it would be good to have easy access to.
Wiki quotes user space of 1.4GB (Kindle 2) and 3.3GB (DX).

That price of $189 helped me make up my mind. I'm guessing that's way lower than when they came out.

dan m
05-07-10, 08:33 AM
Hmmm, that's not a huge capacity. Why do they do that? They could at least stick a card slot in the thing - 4GB SD cards are peanuts. Can you use a USB memory stick to hold content? Is there a standalone application to convert pdf to kindle format or do you have to mail it to your amazon account and have them convert it (at which point I'd not bother)?

Admittedly this is not it's core function - no $ in it for Amazon - but it would be a nice add on for me.

palpnorte
05-07-10, 09:46 AM
The reason that the capacity is not especially large is that ebooks are tiny. The average novel is about 400k, so with only (only!) a gig, you will not be short of stuff to read. In 2 GB you could get around 5,000 books. Admittedly, .pdf files are a bit bigger (6-800k).

palp

SteveB
05-07-10, 10:09 AM
My Gf has noticed that certain titles on the kindle are now more expensive than the paper version.

Isnt that kind of missing the point?

Assuming you are in the UK, it's at least partly due to ebooks being classed as software (VAT 17.5%) rather than books (VAT exempt).

But in general I agree there seems to be little consistency in pricing given the saving in printing, materials and distribution and a 'traditional' book must already exist in electronic form for most of the production process.

palpnorte
05-07-10, 10:14 AM
That's because they are scared shitless and are going na-na-na-naaa with their fingers in their ears. Nothing has been learnt from what has happened to music. Here is a medium which has virtually no overheads, manufacturing costs, delivery etc., and which if they charged, say 2 a book, both they and their authors would rake it in. Instead they are charging more than the printed edition and imagining that torrent sites do not exist. Insane.

palp

Jonathan Ribee
05-07-10, 11:01 AM
The Kindle storage is limited if you want to keep a lot of documents on it. Once you have bought a book you can delete it and reload it any time you like. But the documents you have to load up yourself or email to Amazon to use 3G to sync - which means they will convert to a standard format, but they do charge you for the conversion. So best to do it from your own PC.

What bugs me is the lack of range of books (from anyone - Kindle, iBooks etc) and that the release of a new title seems linked to the paperback release, not the hardback. So you can have a 6-12 month wait for anything new. Not always, but often. The book availability is also limited to your geographical area - so you can only buy books that have been released in the UK via conventional means.

This situation has to change. Palp is spot on. Industry run by bloody arts graduates as well.

Might try a DX after using the iPad. The bigger screen size is nice, but the kindle page is much easier to read.

SteveB
05-07-10, 11:13 AM
What format are Kindle and iBooks 'books' in? At the moment I am just working my way through the free classics that I was too lazy/ignorant to pay attention to in school, but if I start buying others I want to be sure it's a format that will outlive kindle/sony/apple/whoever battle for domination.

Jonathan Ribee
05-07-10, 11:43 AM
Kindle books are in proprietary DRMed format - ".AZW"
Will read MOBI, TXT and non-DRM AZW
Annoyingly not ePUB
Can convert PDF, JPEF, GIF, HTML to AZW
The DX does PDF native I think.

iBooks on iPad are ePUB, DRM if bought, can load your own non-DRM ePub.
Will support PDF in the future.

Any DRM content is at risk of not being readable in the future. You can already grab utilities that will convert content from most of the formats to each other if non-DRM.

Pete the Feet
05-07-10, 01:29 PM
As to the limited availability of titles, haven't Google supposed to have scanned most books or have them in some sort of electronic format. If Google's library could be accessed then Kindle type devices would really take off. Then again Google may keep the data for their own reader device. Once Google have sorted the licensing out which they have been having a spot of bother with, things will take off.

SteveB
05-07-10, 01:44 PM
As to the limited availability of titles, haven't Google supposed to have scanned most books or have them in some sort of electronic format. If Google's library could be accessed then Kindle type devices would really take off. Then again Google may keep the data for their own reader device. Once Google have sorted the licensing out which they have been having a spot of bother with, things will take off.

I didn't think Google were troubling themselves too much with copyrights and licences ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Book_Search#Copyright_infringement.2C_fair_ use_and_related_issues

dan m
05-07-10, 01:50 PM
But the documents you have to load up yourself or email to Amazon to use 3G to sync - which means they will convert to a standard format, but they do charge you for the conversion. So best to do it from your own PC.

...Will read MOBI, TXT and non-DRM AZW

So, can I convert pdfs to MOBI or non-DRM AZW on my laptop and then copy them to the kindle memory via USB cable? Is there any saving space saving over just using the pdfs themselves?

Jonathan Ribee
05-07-10, 02:41 PM
Dunno - I've only used the (beta) latest Word to Kindle transfer myself so far.

palpnorte
06-07-10, 11:45 AM
Sony's various readers support epub, PDF and pretty much any other format (MS Word, .rtf, .txt etc). For once (maybe in fact the one and only time) Sony have abandoned proprietary formats and gone for what people actually want. Whether downloading something via your computer (either from Waterstones - Sony's epub partner in the UK) or the convenience of Amazon's Whispernet (or UK equivalent) is a decision you have to consider for yourself, but I think Sony has the longevity thing on its side .

If I were buying another reader, I think I would go for the smaller and cheaper of the two Sony offerings. Size is really convenient, and stuff like a touch screen (on the big Sony) is essentially irrelevant. As it is, I have the Sony 505 which is highly thought of by people who like this sort of thing.

So far I have read about 120 books on it, and 'replacing real books' comments are irrelevant. I have over 3000 'proper' books crammed into a one bedroom flat, and I'm not about to get rid of any of them.

Electronic books are for people who like reading. Lovely books are lovely books, no matter how you choose to read them. It's just more of the stuff you like in a different and perhaps more useful form. The new in this case is never going to replace the old, - just maybe mix it up a bit

palp

kasperhauser
06-07-10, 12:14 PM
I downloaded the Kindle reader to my MacBook Air to browse the available content, and now I have Alice and Wonderland and Moby Dick to read for an upcoming transatlantic flight.

I re-read AIW and Siddhartha on my recent trip, using Stanza on the iPod Touch. Very convenient way to read on the road.

dan m
30-07-10, 06:51 AM
New little Kindle out here Aug 27 - wifi only is $139-. 3G adds $50, but I don't think I'd bother with that.

Jonathan Ribee
30-07-10, 07:38 AM
I've been using the graphite coloured DX and the screen is much improved. Also the screen size (like an ipad) is great for the amount of text you can get on it and reducing page turns. However, as suspected, the size of the DX makes it a bit awkward to hold and it is just heavy enough to be a bother if you are used to holding out books in front of you. Not as bad/heavy as the iPad.

The new 9" graphite kindle makes sense to me. It's got the fancy new screen, fast page turning, 3000+ books capacity and is lighter than the perfectly acceptable v2 white one it replaces. I've ordered one after very little thought.

I'd opt for the 3G. Not only can you buy books on the go, but you can get books not on your kindle but already bought (archived) on the go as well and make sure you are synced to any other device in terms of where you are up to. The last bit being less important if you only use the kindle - but if stuck in a traffic jam I can read via kindle app on iphone or even ipad if I'm somewhere where I've decide to only pack one device.

Tigerjones
30-07-10, 07:42 AM
I've heard you're packing a lot of devices, JR. Some might say you're well packed.

Jonathan Ribee
30-07-10, 08:13 AM
I've heard you're packing a lot of devices, JR. Some might say you're well packed.

Down Tiger.

I have lots of electronic devices, many large inches computer screens and a Porsche.

This should actually suggest that my penis is very, very tiny.

I'm keeping shctum on the matter.

RossB
30-07-10, 02:29 PM
I just ordered the new one, with 3G. I was about to order it without and save fifty bucks, but then I realised that one of the things I often use the Kindle for now is to download a book I have just seen reviewed or heard about somewhere else, and if travelling it will be a useful feature to have.

prowla
30-07-10, 02:54 PM
The kindle is a very ugly and old-fashioned looking piece of kit.
http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/02/kindle/shasta/photos/big-viewer-3G-01-lrg._V188698726_.jpg
To me, the thick bezel around the edge and the keypad at the bottom just make it look like a Reader Digest freebie; if I had one I would spend most of my time wondering why they didn't make the screen the full size of the unit.

RossB
30-07-10, 02:58 PM
...if I had one I would spend most of my time wondering why they didn't make the screen the full size of the unit.

If you had one, you would probably spend most of your time using it to read. If in fact you spend most of your time pondering its design features, you'd probably be better off with an ipad.

prowla
30-07-10, 03:03 PM
If you had one, you would probably spend most of your time using it to read. If in fact you spend most of your time pondering its design features, you'd probably be better off with an ipad.(The "if I had one" was a code for I won't.)
And the iPad is compromised in other ways.

The e-ink display is nice, and easy on the eye. But the UI is just dated; if the thing had an touch screen GUI (it wouldn't need to be as comprehensive as the iPad's) and lost the clutter around the edges, it would be almost spot-on.
There is a concept in UI design called "direct manipulation", where you do actions in the on-screen items (eg. turning a page by dragging on the screen to either scroll up/down, or to emulate a page turning), rather than by pressing buttons.
When they get that sorted it will be cool.

RossB
30-07-10, 03:28 PM
People who read generally don't want their "page" to be covered in fingerprints. Really, the only button that is used 99% of the time on my kindle is the next page button, and I am happy for it to be next to the screen.

The ipad is for people who want to manipulate things with their fingers, like a kindergarten finger-painting class, to update their facebook pages or watch amusing youtube videos.

Jonathan Ribee
30-07-10, 05:17 PM
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4137/4817469469_5a3c8e6738_z.jpg

Kindle's may look Fisher Price - but they are very good for reading on. iPad is too heavy and the screen is far too reflective.

Pete the Feet
03-09-10, 02:00 PM
Anyone have any experience on the web browsing experience of the Kindle 3g in the UK. I understand YouTube and the like are no go areas but BBC news and perhaps the Independant, guardian etc maybe readable.
I'm thinking of taking the plunge as I am running out of places to store books that I want to keep.

Jonathan Ribee
03-09-10, 05:19 PM
It's a bit crap as a browser. Sites specially sorted for "mobile" are better - but I'd always use the iPad.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4087/4955136443_62d3e79390_b.jpg

The interface (using the cursor controls to flip between links) is a bit dodgy. There is a good reason why it is listed as experimental in the menu.

That image is about 130% of actual size.

RossB
03-09-10, 05:22 PM
I've tried the web browser on my Kindle 3, but not in the UK. Even with wi fi it is still pretty slow, and the interface is quite clunky. I don't plan to use it as a web browser. If that is your primary aim, buy an iPad (or preferably one of the non-Apple tablets which will soon follow). As an e-reader though, the Kindle 3 is an improvement on the old one in readability due to the higher contrast screen and slightly lighter weight.

The only reason to buy a Kindle is to read books; it is a mistake to think of it as a multi-function device. However, as an e-reader, it is a fantastic device.

vuk
03-09-10, 08:20 PM
People who read generally don't want their "page" to be covered in fingerprints. Really, the only button that is used 99% of the time on my kindle is the next page button, and I am happy for it to be next to the screen.

The ipad is for people who want to manipulate things with their fingers, like a kindergarten finger-painting class, to update their facebook pages or watch amusing youtube videos.

ross.

you're forgetting about the people who think reading is cool, but don't really have time or patience for it, yet still want others to think they do read, though only in a cool way, of course--like on an ipad ... perhaps at a starbucks [sic] table.


btw--i had an ipad here for a couple of weeks (one of my health care clients wanted to use it, i had to develop a safari bug workaround) and, within seconds, the smudged-up screen instantly defeated all of apple's shiny marketing. i'll speculate that current economic trends will soon allow the inclusion of a third-world, screen-wiping child at a very insignificant price increase.

vuk.

RossB
03-09-10, 08:40 PM
you're forgetting about the people who think reading is cool, but don't really have time or patience for it, yet still want others to think they do read, though only in a cool way, of course--like on an ipad ... perhaps at a starbucks [sic] table.
Vuk, you're probably right that both the Kindle and iPad will be bought by a lot of people who like the idea of reading but don't actually read, and most of them will probably use it as a way of rationalising their desire to buy an ipad. I have actually seen quite a few Kindles in public here in Sydney - probably half a dozen regular Kindle readers on my morning commute alone - but I have only ever seen one ipad used in public, and it was being used at a cafe to read a comic book. That probably speaks volumes about the different audiences for the Kindle and ipad.

btw--i had an ipad here for a couple of weeks (one of my health care clients wanted to use it, i had to develop a safari bug workaround) and, within seconds, the smudged-up screen instantly defeated all of apple's shiny marketing. i'll speculate that current economic trends will soon allow the inclusion of a third-world, screen-wiping child at a very insignificant price increase.
A local store has a rack of demo ipads. Aside from showing how heavy and unwieldy they are, the demos are all filthy with fingerprints and I had grave hygiene concerns even picking one up. I'd be surprised if they sold any this way.

Re-Joyce
04-09-10, 02:05 AM
ross.

you're forgetting about the people who think reading is cool, but don't really have time or patience for it, yet still want others to think they do read, though only in a cool way, of course--like on an ipad ... perhaps at a starbucks [sic] table.


... probably with Proust or Satre on the screen.


Cheers
Jason

Jonathan Ribee
04-09-10, 03:05 AM
Although you get the out-and-about "cool" reading thing - it is harder to convincing leave (say) that dog-eared copy of Middlemarch under a sofa cushion to demonstrate your vulnerable side as part of the seduction process.

Pete the Feet
04-09-10, 10:25 AM
Although you get the out-and-about "cool" reading thing - it is harder to convincing leave (say) that dog-eared copy of Middlemarch under a sofa cushion to demonstrate your vulnerable side as part of the seduction process.

I should imagine sitting on your sofa could prove very costly with all those gadgets lying about.
Cheers for the info, I have ordered the 3G for the extra 40 rather than wish I had, although it will be used 99% of the time for reading. Not sure how I will get on with though as I do like the dare I say it analogue feel of a proper book and looking where the bookmark is and judging how long it will take to finish the book; shall I stay up another hour or finish it tomorrow?

johnhunt
04-09-10, 03:04 PM
Typing is Murakami and getting zero hits doesn't seem to good.
Jonathan

won't be buying one of them then

RossB
04-09-10, 08:53 PM
It's only a matter of time before Murakami appears on the Kindle. And I would not be basing my decision on whether a single second rank writer is available.

simeon
04-09-10, 10:50 PM
Not sure how I will get on with though as I do like the dare I say it analogue feel of a proper book and looking where the bookmark is and judging how long it will take to finish the book; shall I stay up another hour or finish it tomorrow?

There's a little progress bar at the bottom of the screen :)

Pete the Feet
28-09-10, 06:47 AM
The kindle is a very ugly and old-fashioned looking piece of kit.


Don't judge a book by its cover Prowla.

Mine just arrived the other day and have read the first book on it and ordered another one. I spent the extra and bought the 3G version, as stated by others the browser is experimental but if you are stuck in a hotel room or away from a PC then its better than nowt.
As for the reading experience I have found it very good so far, particularly the weight and size of it. Due to having rheumatoid arthritis I sometimes find that the heavier books cause considerable discomfort to my hands and shoulders, i think i should be okay with this device. I prefer to read it in the landscape format as I find it more comfortable.
There isn't half a fair old choice of free books available as well. I will probably stick with proper books for biographies and historical books with illustrations but for the majority of my current reading which is fiction then I will stick with the Kindle.
Another added bonus is that if the cover of a normal book is deemed a bit risque or questionable by SWMBO [The Girl with a Dragon Tattoo being a recent one] then the Kindle will not present the opportunity for yet another ear bashing.

Jonathan Ribee
28-09-10, 06:11 PM
There are now two short story compilations that include Murakami on the kindle store.

Despite Ross being sniffy, I shall continue to use the murakami-o-meter to measure kindle offerings.

JTC
29-09-10, 04:22 AM
Been working with a Sony Reader (pocket edition) since February. Wouldn't be without it, even with its limitations (slow, capacity is limited in comparison to some and the screen is a tad small). Otherwise, great device. Crucially (for me) it's small enough to fit into a coat pocket, which is the difference between having it with you most of the time and it getting left at home... worth bearing in mind that the Kindle is a bit bigger for all its qualities.

Best thing I can say about it is that it's making me read more. I'm sitting at around 45 books this year so far, which is more than I'd manage in a normal year in total. Sure, some have been lightweight quick reads such as Lee Child, but others have been fairly lengthy - things like Ulysses, Wolf Hall, several classics and so on. Working my way through 'In the name of the Rose' by Umberto Eco as it's one I've been meaning to read for a while. No complaints about the reader from me.

sideshowbob
29-09-10, 05:15 AM
My Sony Reader pocket edition is probably the most used portable electronic gadget I've ever bought. I really didn't think I would like it at first, but I wouldn't be without it now. I always have 3 or 4 books on the go at any time, and this thing makes it possible to carry everything I'm reading at one time in a pocketable device. And with a few easily-downloadable scripts, it can remove all the Amazon-specific DRM from things bought at the Amazon store, so no need to tie yourself to a single ebook retailer either.

demersal
29-09-10, 05:39 AM
Does one have to switch off Kindles at certain times when flying?

stevec67
29-09-10, 07:59 AM
Certainly the bit where they make you switch off iPods, MP3s, and anything more electrically powerful than a digital watch, yes. I have a Kindle app for my phone, must set it up. Every time I try it falls over, mostly because they want every last detail of information and the soul of your first born when all you want is to try the popular classics for free section.

Fox
29-09-10, 08:08 AM
I would spend most of my time wondering why they didn't make the screen the full size of the unit.

Think very very carefully. Why do books not use all of the page space but have a border. Hold a book and work it out. Hint: fingers and thumbs...

JTC
29-09-10, 08:24 AM
Does one have to switch off Kindles at certain times when flying?

I think there is zero risk but that didn't stop me being asked to turn my Sony Reader off when coming in for landing. Although I'd had it on during take-off. Anyway, belt and braces springs to mind, although I have no problem with that (better to err on the side of caution). The Kindle with 3G might be a different matter of course...

Tony L
29-09-10, 09:10 AM
Does one have to switch off Kindles at certain times when flying?

I've never understood that at all - what part of an aircraft is in use only at take off and landing yet unimportant in normal flight? It has to be the wheels!

Tony.

Still
29-09-10, 09:18 AM
"What about the pilot?"

Michael O'Leary

Fox
29-09-10, 01:18 PM
I think it's more to do with bits of plastic and metal and glass with batteries in them capable of flying about the cabin if things get bumpy when landing. Issues of negligence are far more easily managed by having people stow their expensive shit.

RossB
29-09-10, 01:56 PM
A friend is a Qantas pilot. I once asked him whether electronic gear like ipods, laptops etc really interfered with the plane's systems. He said absolutely not.

ErikL
29-09-10, 04:18 PM
At US $149 (Wi-Fi; Wi-Fi/3G US $189), I'm very, very interested in it.

"High-contrast E Ink screen with 50% better contrast" and "Kindle's screen reflects light like ordinary paper" is cool vs the iPad.

matthewr
29-09-10, 11:13 PM
Yeah I am buying one soon as well. If only because it's increasingly hard to walk about my flat due to piles of books.

Jo Sharp
29-09-10, 11:18 PM
I think it's more to do with bits of plastic and metal and glass with batteries in them capable of flying about the cabin if things get bumpy when landing. Issues of negligence are far more easily managed by having people stow their expensive shit.

Spot on..and people with headphones playing something noisy won 't hear any safety announcements in an emergency.

NeilR
30-09-10, 12:07 AM
my partner has had the new model for a couple of weeks. it's very good.

ErikL
01-10-10, 04:38 PM
"High-contrast E Ink screen with 50% better contrast" and "Kindle's screen reflects light like ordinary paper" is cool vs the iPad.
HGmRKSds9OY

My point exactly.

Jonathan Ribee
07-11-10, 08:41 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11693222

vuk
09-11-10, 12:28 PM
chaps.

i've just plugged in my new kindle and transfered some files to it. i lets you make directories/subdirectories, but then seems to ignore them in navigation. am i missing something?

vuk.

RossB
09-11-10, 01:30 PM
Vuk, the Kindle UI doesn't accept folders. The only way of achieving this is through "collections".

matthewr
10-11-10, 01:20 PM
And, as I just found out, you cannot use collections unless you have a wireless network. In fact it's farcically complicated to use it without a wireless network even when the bloody thing is connected by a cable to my computer.

RossB
10-11-10, 02:34 PM
That's a little odd, Matthew. You should be able to organise your books into collections without having a wireless network - even with wireless off. You can create the collection on the Kindle without it being connected to the PC, and it is then a simple matter to assign books to collections.

matthewr
10-11-10, 11:13 PM
A bunch of stuff is disabled until the kindle knows it's registered to an Amazon account. And, outside of debug console hacks, you can only register the kindle via wireless. I.e. my kindle is registered on my amazon account (so i can download books to it via usb albeit by manually copying them via windows) but my kindle does not know it's registered to amazon and AFAICT you can only do that part via wireless.

I do have an old wireless router somewhere and will have to get that up and running this weekend I guess. A whole router just for my kindle seems excessive though, would be quite happy plugging it in via usb.

Jonathan Ribee
11-11-10, 12:23 AM
Ah - so you have the wireless (non-3G) version then?

RossB
11-11-10, 12:39 AM
Doesn't McDonalds have free wifi? Go in for 5 minutes, register your Kindle and you should be fine after that.

Cesare
11-11-10, 01:36 AM
I've had mine for a few months. The screen is good, and the reading experience is perfectly fine for the types of thing I read. It's growing on me - i'm reading more again on my commute, and can see myself buying plenty of trashy novels for it. Stuff that i'd have thought the missus would want to read i'd buy on paper to share.

matthewr
11-11-10, 01:42 AM
Johnathan -- An extra 50 just for 3G seems like insanely bad value to me so I just went for the normal one.

Ross -- Not sure I want to do things like register my user name and password on a public wifi network with things like firesheep (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/25/firesheep_cookie_capture_peril/) doing the rounds.

Jonathan Ribee
11-11-10, 01:59 AM
Yeah - it sounds like Amazon haven't quite though that one through for the wireless model, Or not had enough time revise the code for all the functions.

I assume that if you have the older 3G only and lived outside of a phone signal area you couldn't register a kindle through the PC then? That would be even worse. Or maybe they have assumed that if you get a wireless only one you have a wireless network and changed the code.

There are code updates (which you can download through PC) so it might be worthwhile pointing out to Amazon this is an omission and see if it gets in a future release.

matthewr
11-11-10, 02:19 AM
Yeah if you google for the problem you find lots of people in bits of the US outside of the Whispernet's coverage (which was quite patchy circa Kindle 2) who couldn't register without going to visit a friend in NYC or something.

You can do some stuff with "debugOn;" and manually uploads reginfo files via usbnetwork but that all sounds a bit flakey to me. Will just get my wireless router working at the weekend.

sideshowbob
11-11-10, 02:27 AM
Just get a Sony reader, buy stuff from Amazon and strip out all of Amazon's DRM and turn the books into an open format like epub using some simple scripts (http://apprenticealf.wordpress.com/2010/02/11/hello-world/) and Calibre (http://calibre-ebook.com/). The Kindle is a horrible device, and the lock-in model it promotes is evil.

david ellwood
11-11-10, 02:34 AM
had a kindle for two years and am yet to buy anything from the kindle store.

JTC
11-11-10, 03:12 AM
Just get a Sony reader
I have one and though it's a fine device, I think the current Kindle is a better e-reader from a side-by-side comparison. The Sony is great, more open and slightly smaller (therefore easier to fit in a pocket) but the current Kindle is a very good device for the money.

Jonathan Ribee
11-11-10, 04:18 AM
Yeah, the latest kindle seems to definitely be the best reader. But it is clearly designed as a weapon against the marxist revolution - much more of a phaff to import non-amazon files.

wobbleu
11-11-10, 04:22 AM
If you are into the Classics - Calibre and Project Gutenberg will keep many entertained for quite some time.

sideshowbob
11-11-10, 04:50 AM
Yeah, the latest kindle seems to definitely be the best reader.

I don't agree. The latest Kindle and the latest Sonys use the same generation e-Ink display, but the Sony is very open in the file formats you can use and the Kindle isn't. Plus, the Sonys feel much better made. They don't have wifi but I don't really see any need for it. The only problem with them is that Sony are not pricing them aggressively enough.

The new pocket Sony (PRS-350) is also the first ereader I have used that's genuinely pocketable.

Jonathan Ribee
11-11-10, 06:19 AM
New Sony? OK - not seen that one yet then.

JTC
11-11-10, 06:50 AM
the annotation feature actually works with the Sony e readers
Um, it doesn't have one. At least my PRS300 doesn't. Don't get me wrong, I really like my Sony, but it is definitely not as good as the new Kindle. It's for sale, by the way, Fox... 80 including postage and I'll leave whatever books are on there if you wanted.... I'm not using it much right now, although if I end up with another commute I'd be tempted by the Kindle...

Jonathan Ribee
11-11-10, 06:57 AM
Because the only functionality I want is to be a novel, have access to as many novels as possible instantly - like when sat on a train, or in a traffic jam (just about to get into traffic jam season on the M1) without any need to use a PC or other method of file transfer.

Auto-sync between my ipad, iphone and two kindles of where I'm up to is also quite useful if I get stuck somewhere and don't have the last device I was reading on.

I'm also not morally outraged at spending money to get content. I'm happy to spend some dosh as long as it gets back to the authors (current books) or whomever is maintaining the database for out of copyright stuff. The current pricing model is wrong - no need to print physical media and new books are far too expensive. OK for the next few years assuming some of the dosh is being invested in the infrastructure, organising deals with publishers etc - but it needs to get slicker. And cheaper.

I quite like the Apple model where anyone can set up as a publisher in the same way developers can for Apps - except it is again more or less a non-standard format.

Ideally I'd want a choice of readers with different functionality, all of which can access any number of digital booksellers anywhere in the world, mobile. Pick the device you like - buy from whomever you want.

The last Sony vs the last kindle - the kindle seemed nicer to use. And the later kindle has a better screen. Not looked at the new Sony. Either would probably have been fine - I almost bought a Sony before the kindle came out in the UK, but at the time it was not mac compatible (early 2008.)

For me the kindle gives me the best usability (3G, wireless faster when at home, good screen, reasonable size) combined with an easy way to shop for books.

If I was less rich and had more time - I'd pirate everything like when I was a student and only had negative money.

sideshowbob
11-11-10, 06:58 AM
Um, it doesn't have one. At least my PRS300 doesn't.

The PRS-350 and PRS-650, which are the current generation of Sonys, do, although it's not a facility I've found a use for. They also have on-board dictionaries if that sort of thing is needed. The new Sonys really are better devices than Kindles, and a big improvement over the earlier Sonys. The screens are as good as the Kindle, the 2Gb storage (expandable on the PRS-650 with SD cards) is plenty big enough for anyone, and the overall interface and build/weight is just perfect for reading. And you can read books bought from Amazon without being in any way tied to Amazon DRM, which, for me, is important. I don't want a license to read an ebook I have paid for. I want the same abilities to copy and share as I have with physical books.

matthewr
11-11-10, 07:16 AM
I was planning to buy my dad a Kindle for xmas so I could give him the one I just received and get a Sony instead.

So just to confirm -- I can definitely get my current Amazon bought kindle books onto the Sony reader? And this is a painless procedure? And do I want a 350 or a 650? (Size is not so important to me as ease of use and features).

Thanks in advance.

I notice, btw, that the sony readers have a VAT back offer between now and xmas if you buy direct from Sony (web or at a "sony centre")

sideshowbob
11-11-10, 07:26 AM
I have the 350 because I like how portable it is. The feature set of the two is identical, except the 650 has SD card support (the 350 just has the 2Gb internal storage).

I'll send you a PM about the DRM stuff.

matthewr
11-11-10, 09:15 AM
Thanks for the PMs, will investigate more shortly.

vuk
12-11-10, 09:04 AM
Thanks for the PMs, will investigate more shortly.

matthew.

i received my kindle a few days ago and it's fantastic. just yesterday, i had a look at the sony readers in a local shop and the display was not nearly as good. i'm surprised ian thinks they are on par.

vuk.

Jo Sharp
12-11-10, 09:12 AM
I've had my Kindle for 1 week now. For its primary purpose of reading books it is superb. And having compared to Ipad and Sony in a shop before buying it, I am sure the screen is better than the Sonys; so +1 to Vuk's comments.

I like the dictionary system. Although the internet function is nowhere near as good as the Ipad, it is FREE with the 3G model I bought!

palpnorte
12-11-10, 09:48 AM
With respect, Jo & Vuk - you were looking at the last generation of Sonys. The e-ink screen manufacturing market is not yet evolved enough to support a range of solutions. There are just e-ink displays of two types fitted to everyone's machines.

Essentially there are the old ones and the new ones. The latter, which is known as 'Pearl' (higher contrast, slightly quicker page turn) is on both the new Kindles and Sonys. The old one (don't think it had a name) was on the previous Kindles & Sonys. Sony have countered the Kindle's connectivity (which is incredibly compelling and would be the USP for me) with touch screens (one of the old Sonys had a touch screen as well, but it was implemented in a very c lunky way and was crap). I don't think touch screens add that much, except I suppose it is intuitive and cleans up the controls. The default fonts are different though, and consequently a matter of taste.

Although unconvinced by the necessity of a keyboard, when I saw the new Kindle I was really impressed. The build quality was fine (I thought that it might be very plasticky compared to the Sony, but then it is a loss leader from Amazon's POV and the leather cover is superb) even though Sonys, I think, remain the more desirable object for exquisitely hewn aluminium hunkophiles.

I've had the older PRS-505 for over a year now, and must have read more than sixty books on it (I have a long commute). Much as I would like to, I can't think of a reason to buy another one, although sideshowbob is quite correct in that pocketability is really desirable, and if I was buying again I would go for the smaller Sony in an instant. Aunties & Apple owners however should go for the Kindle.

palp

sideshowbob
12-11-10, 09:58 AM
I've had my Kindle for 1 week now. For its primary purpose of reading books it is superb. And having compared to Ipad and Sony in a shop before buying it, I am sure the screen is better than the Sonys; so +1 to Vuk's comments.


The new Sonys and the current Kindles use identical e-Ink displays, there really is no difference in their screens. The Kindle does have slightly higher contrast in its default font. But you can change the contrast as you want to with the Sony, so it's no big deal.

Having used them both, treated purely as reading devices, the new Sonys are better than the latest Kindle, IMO. And the anti-DRM argument is compelling for me, I do not want to be locked into proprietary file formats.

Jonathan Ribee
12-11-10, 10:15 AM
I must have a look at the new Sonys.

The 3G book buying is so seductive though. One minute after I say I want to read something, I'm reading. It's a drug. (It's also not a good idea to drink and pick up your kindle.)

matthewr
12-11-10, 10:44 AM
Amazon's click once has already filled my flat with "to be read" books so I am not so sure connectivity is really what I should be aiming for.

david ellwood
12-11-10, 11:37 AM
Calibre is the must have application for the kindle owner btw

JTC
18-11-10, 04:33 AM
Well.... much as I like my Sony I have been seduced by the 3G Kindle so in a moment of credit-card wielding foolishness I have bought one.... at least in my case I know that e-books work for me and I'm happy to live with their compromises, but I guess this means that I really ought to sell the Sony on...

Mr_Sukebe
16-12-10, 07:41 AM
How do you chaps find the PDF viewing capabilities of the Kindle and Sony?
I regularly use a train and it would be useful to have something like a Kindle for reading dull work documents.

Just to expand upon that, I'm thinking of some fairly hefty user guides, e.g. a 10MB PDF.

JTC
16-12-10, 07:52 AM
Not done much PDF viewing on the Kindle yet, but on the Sony it was painfully slow and the 5" screen just a tad too small to make it readable.

FWIW I'm still using my Sony more than my new Kindle, but that's just due to the books I'm reading on either. Kindle's the better device, no question, although the little Sony fits the pocket better...

stackowax
27-12-10, 01:33 PM
Can you annotate text in Kindle or any of these readers? I like to underline, highlight, make notes in the margins, etc. when reading a real book. Are actions like this possible in an e-reader?

Jonathan Ribee
27-12-10, 01:35 PM
Yep.

stackowax
27-12-10, 02:25 PM
Cool. Thanks Jonathan.

stackowax
27-12-10, 03:06 PM
One more logistical question--which I think I know the answer to but...---is it possible to cut and paste text into a Word or other word processing document? And if it isn't possible with a Kindle device is it possible on any other reader (like the Sony, for example)?

JTC
27-12-10, 11:57 PM
Don't think so. You might need to look at a more conventional tablet or pad-based device for that sort of thing. Kindle's really best as a reader - when you start wanting to deviate from the 'reading books' path, it starts to show its limitations.

Loving mine to bits though - but I kept the Sony as it's more portable. Don't really need both but as an avid reader it's quite nice to have two books on the go on different devices without having to switch back and forth on one (if that makes sense).

prowla
28-12-10, 01:16 AM
How do you put Kindle books onto something other than a Kindle (eg. an iPod with the Kindle app)?

SteveB
28-12-10, 03:15 AM
How do you put Kindle books onto something other than a Kindle (eg. an iPod with the Kindle app)?

Simple - in my case it's an iPad, and the device is registered to my amazon account so any kindle books I buy just synch down to the ipad. Even over 3G it's a quick and painless process

Dougie2404
28-12-10, 10:31 AM
Could I sign on as annon

I work at "Amazin!" Glenrothes, which is where all returns are sent. As owners/prospective owners of Kindles You don't want to know how many are returned as faulty.

Dougie2404
28-12-10, 10:57 AM
Sorry I haven't read all of the posts as yet and am trying to give replies as I come to them.

The Kindle is nothing exceptional and can replay a range of things eg MP3's although why ? is a better question, but can also store and replay .PDF files.

No you don't have to buy you books soley from "Amazin" at the end of the day it's an e-book player, so any internet supplier of E-books can help. and there is a lot of freebies out there.

Dougie

Pete the Feet
28-12-10, 01:02 PM
I am the happy owner of a Kindle and have just been reading an analogue book are they called? not a comfortable experience as it has aggravated my arthritis, can't wait to get back to the Kindle.
We have just visited a friend who is under the misapprehension that I know about computers and asked me to set up her recently acquired "inTempo ebook reader", what a faff, give me a Kindle in monochrome any day.

prowla
28-12-10, 03:52 PM
Simple - in my case it's an iPad, and the device is registered to my amazon account so any kindle books I buy just synch down to the ipad. Even over 3G it's a quick and painless processBut can you only get Kindle content from Amazon?

JTC
29-12-10, 12:37 AM
But can you only get Kindle content from Amazon?
No. It's easy to convert between different formats using software called Calibre. Provided that there's no DRM on the books of course. I managed to convert all of my EPUB books across easily. Also, there's a wealth of free books in various formats, and the Kindle is fine with PDF files although sometimes the text can seem a bit small.

redeye
29-12-10, 09:45 AM
So i have a Kindle app on my mobile (android). If i buy books from amazon is it possible to transfer them off the SGS later if i buy a Kindle?

Jonathan Ribee
29-12-10, 09:48 AM
Yep.

redeye
29-12-10, 10:45 AM
Nice

Jonathan Ribee
29-12-10, 11:45 AM
Also - you can download apps for just about any other device including PC/Mac from Amazon and load the book onto them. In some cases there is a limit (set by title) for how many devices you can have something on, but it is 4-6 and not that many books have a limit. Also if you delete a book from a device your account knows you "own" it and you can download it again.

I'm Kindled on iMac, iPhone, iPod Touch, iPad, Kindle and Kindle DX. And if you remember to sync the device you are reading something on, you can go to furtherest read point on the next device you pick up. Handy for traffic jams and train delays.

canonman
29-12-10, 12:03 PM
That's one Kindle for each ball of the over.

redeye
30-12-10, 12:57 PM
Weird..
Can't buy books. The KIndle store wants me to register my Kindle of whatever device I plan to use. When I click on mobile it gives me the option of registering my iphone or my blackberry...
I have a Samsung Galaxy S so seemingly no can do. Frickin strange as the phone came with Kindle app installed. Also strange that I can d/l samples straight to the SGS with no bother.
Bollocks etc

red

Jonathan Ribee
30-12-10, 01:02 PM
You should be able to do it with any android phone. You need to have an amazon account.

redeye
30-12-10, 01:11 PM
Yep got an account. Even remember the password for it. Still cant buy anything

Jonathan Ribee
30-12-10, 01:16 PM
Weird. If you haven't already I's suggest a) downloading the kindle app again to ensure it is the latest one, b) email amazon - their kindle help is quite good.

prowla
30-12-10, 01:20 PM
Hmmm - they aren't making this easy, are they?

I've got the Kindle app in my iTuens, but I can't see how to register it with Amazon. There's an option to enter the serial of a Kindle proper, and options to download the app, but it says I haven't got one registered (but there's no apparent option to register it).

Still, I also tried Apple's bookshelf reader thingy, and that only lets you download content to the handheld, not via the iTunes library, so that's a non-starter too.

redeye
30-12-10, 01:55 PM
Cheers Jonathan
Will try emailing them and see where that gets me

stackowax
01-01-11, 09:08 AM
One more logistical question about Kindle. I've downloaded a sample using the Kindle app for Mac (I don't yet have an actual Kindle) and there don't seem to be any page numbers on the text. This is a problem if you are going to use Kindle to read for research purposes as you have to be able to cite page numbers for reference purposes. Is there a way to get kindle to display page numbers of the text from the print version of the text?

prowla
01-01-11, 09:25 AM
Aha - I downloaded the PC Kindle app and got it registered, so now I've been able to grab some books.

kasperhauser
01-01-11, 09:28 AM
Kindle ignoramus here, with a question:

I played with one of the ginormous ones in the store yesterday and liked it alright. However, every time I "turned a page", the screen swapped from dark letters on a light background to light letters on a dark background, then back, all within a second or so. Just a flash.

I found it extremely annoying after about the third page turn - can this be defeated?

Bob McC
01-01-11, 11:18 AM
Kindle ignoramus here, with a question:

I played with one of the ginormous ones in the store yesterday and liked it alright. However, every time I "turned a page", the screen swapped from dark letters on a light background to light letters on a dark background, then back, all within a second or so. Just a flash.

I found it extremely annoying after about the third page turn - can this be defeated?

No, every Kindle does it.

NeilK
01-01-11, 11:24 AM
It is irritating for the first 10/15 minutes of use - then your eyes habituate, I don't notice it at all now.

felarca
01-01-11, 11:36 AM
I was the lucky recipient of a Barnes and Noble nook Color for Christmas. I absolutely love it. Its the perfect combination of the Kindle and iPad in my eyes. Excellent ereader with a huge selection on the BN store with full PDF and EPUB support unlike the Kindle and iPad. The Android tablet functionality, while not that of the iPad, is excellent and a great extension of my Android phone. No complaints at all.

Jonathan Ribee
01-01-11, 05:29 PM
One more logistical question about Kindle. I've downloaded a sample using the Kindle app for Mac (I don't yet have an actual Kindle) and there don't seem to be any page numbers on the text. This is a problem if you are going to use Kindle to read for research purposes as you have to be able to cite page numbers for reference purposes. Is there a way to get kindle to display page numbers of the text from the print version of the text?

No. It is an interesting problem - the page number has been a standard reference point for physical books (assuming you have the same edition.) iBooks (for example) uses page numbers - but if you change the font settings (for example) the number of pages will go up and down. Similar in the Kindle world - except the location code is used to try and overcome this problem as it is a position in the text independent of font size etc. But is only relevant to another kindle user or device.

Some new kind of standard is required I think. If you can think of a good one - patent it quickly!

Fox
01-01-11, 06:01 PM
suggest the page size is restricted to a standard size for that edition. The pages could be made to emulate the kindle by printing each page out and having them pressed together on one edge and you could actually turn the pages with your fingers, like swiping the side of the page on a kindle or ebook reader. You could then have the page numbers at the top or the bottom of each sheet of "r-paper" (r as in real) printed with r-Inks and sold as real books. You can then pass that book to the next person when you are done reading it and it can go to places you would not want to bring a computer or have access to power. Neat huh?

stackowax
01-01-11, 06:17 PM
No. It is an interesting problem - the page number has been a standard reference point for physical books (assuming you have the same edition.) iBooks (for example) uses page numbers - but if you change the font settings (for example) the number of pages will go up and down. Similar in the Kindle world - except the location code is used to try and overcome this problem as it is a position in the text independent of font size etc. But is only relevant to another kindle user or device.

Some new kind of standard is required I think. If you can think of a good one - patent it quickly!

I guess one solution would be to change citation rules so that all you had to do was cite author, text, and date and do away with page numbers all together. As things covert over to electronic text it would be easy enough to search the text for a word or phrase (I'm assuming Kindle can do that?).

Perhaps a better solution would be to number paragraphs, with some sort of ability to toggle the number on and off (since paragraph numbers might make for distracting reading). That is what is often done with classic texts that have numerous editions.

But, in the end, this is going to have to be worked out with publishers and academic journals. It isn't like I can single handedly change the reference standards for citing texts.

Jonathan Ribee
01-01-11, 07:16 PM
suggest the page size is restricted to a standard size for that edition. The pages could be made to emulate the kindle by printing each page out and having them pressed together on one edge and you could actually turn the pages with your fingers, like swiping the side of the page on a kindle or ebook reader. You could then have the page numbers at the top or the bottom of each sheet of "r-paper" (r as in real) printed with r-Inks and sold as real books. You can then pass that book to the next person when you are done reading it and it can go to places you would not want to bring a computer or have access to power. Neat huh?

:)

Perhaps a better solution would be to number paragraphs, with some sort of ability to toggle the number on and off (since paragraph numbers might make for distracting reading). That is what is often done with classic texts that have numerous editions.

Pretty much what the location code on kindle is - but not universal.

denni55
02-01-11, 09:38 AM
Kindle 3g Wifi + Project Gutenburg = :)

Azzy
05-01-11, 07:55 AM
I've just ordered a leather case for mine on ebay 15, it flips down and under to become a desk stand - will let you know how I get on

and another vote for Calibre (ebook database and converter)

J

stackowax
06-01-11, 04:35 PM
So I took the plunge and bought a Kindle--the small one. I like it but I wish the type font(s) were more pleasing to the eye. Seems very plain.

JTC
06-01-11, 11:22 PM
I think you can change the fonts, their sizes/weights and so forth. I'm happy enough with the stock font (at least compared to what is standard on my Sony Reader).

matthewr
07-01-11, 12:05 AM
You can change fonts but not without hacks that come with some risk. And you can reduce the size but in my experience it just makes aliasing problems (some letters go blurry) more likely.

Although I think the standard font is lovely. Very clean and modern.

Pete the Feet
07-01-11, 01:43 AM
I have downloaded one of the free books off Amazon and there are a few squiggles and anomalies particularly with currency symbols.

Sent from my bloody mobile what a faff

stackowax
07-01-11, 05:42 AM
You can change fonts but not without hacks that come with some risk. And you can reduce the size but in my experience it just makes aliasing problems (some letters go blurry) more likely.

Although I think the standard font is lovely. Very clean and modern.

I guess its a personal preference thing. I've become enamored with the default screen font used on Scrivener (http://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivener.php)--which is Optima 13 point. Looks lovely on the (Mac) screen.

Pete the Feet
07-02-11, 11:54 AM
They are great these Kindle thingummies to read from, much preferable to a book in most cases. However what gets me is the price of some titles, they are actually less expensive not only in paperback but hardback too. they will shoot theirself in the foot if this continues nevermind increased uptake.

Bob McC
07-02-11, 03:57 PM
I've got over 400 books on mine that I paid nada for. Books like music and movies are out there if you look hard enough.

Mick P
07-02-11, 04:01 PM
Chaps

This thread is making a brilliant case to get rid of libaries.

It may be cheaper to buy everyone a Kindle.

Regards

Mick

PS Can you put magazines & periodicals into it

Bob McC
07-02-11, 04:19 PM
Yes

stackowax
07-02-11, 06:19 PM
Yes

...but no color (on a Kindle).

Pete the Feet
08-02-11, 07:21 AM
I've got over 400 books on mine that I paid nada for. Books like music and movies are out there if you look hard enough.

I suppose it depends upon if you are looking for a certain title.

cookiemonster
15-02-11, 04:21 AM
You've all turned to the dark side.

E-book readers are almost as rotten as SatNav's.

I can't <sticks fingers in ears> see the point.

sideshowbob
15-02-11, 04:22 AM
I'm on the train a lot dude. It's nice to be able to carry Adorno's collected works without breaking my arms :)

Mick P
15-02-11, 04:34 AM
Chaps

I am having a gawp of a friends kindle tomorrow. It makes sense to have everything in one little box.

Regards

Mick

cookiemonster
15-02-11, 04:54 AM
'Technology is making gestures precise and brutal, and with them men.' ;-)

sideshowbob
15-02-11, 05:04 AM
Arf!

jfs
15-02-11, 05:30 AM
A good friend of mine bought his mother a Kindle for Christmas. At almost seventy, she does try to keep abreast of new technology and is quite computer savvy.

In exasperation she rang my friend regarding the Kindle and told him that the 'machine' requires quite frequent battery 'top ups' and that the message 'turn wireless off' displays most of the time.

' I love listening to music when I'm reading' she explained ' but I've turned the radio off and checked the others in the house, the damned message 'turn wireless off' still displays, am I doing something wrong'.

A true and lovely story - the problem is now sorted and she is now happy that she can listen to music and read her Kindle.

Pete the Feet
15-02-11, 05:30 AM
As previously stated earlier in the thread I find the Kindle a really useful bit of kit on two counts:
1. The text can be viewed at a sizt to suit the reader, unlike some miniscule print you get in some paperbacks.
2. Holding or manipulating a book can be very uncomfortable on your hand and shoulders if you have arthritis, with a Kindle no real problem.

My real gripe is the price of some of the books in electronic format is just too expensive in comparrison to the printed versions.

Mick P
15-02-11, 05:33 AM
Pete

What would it be like reading on the beach in the Spanish sun ?

Would the screen take the glare ?

Regards

Mick

Pete the Feet
15-02-11, 05:43 AM
Apparently not if the adverts are anything to go by. We don't get much sun up here in Rochdale to try that though. I believe the ipads suffer from glare in the sun or bright light and the Kindle's are readable in the sun.
if you are going to get one shell out the extra 40 for the 3G version rather than wish you had.

Mick P
15-02-11, 05:47 AM
Pete

Mrs Mick is an avid reader of slushy romantic tales that involve beautiful women having their bodices ripped off by lusty young men etc etc.

It would be so much easier to have it all in a little grey box than hundred of paperbacks. She does the bulk of her reading either on the sun roof or the beach, both of which are sunny. We don't have clouds in Spain.

Regards

Mick

sideshowbob
15-02-11, 05:49 AM
e-Readers aren't backlit, so glare should not be much of a problem.

Pete the Feet
15-02-11, 06:04 AM
Pete

Mrs Mick is an avid reader of slushy romantic tales that involve beautiful women having their bodices ripped off by lusty young men etc etc.


They don't do pictures very well.

Pete the Feet
15-02-11, 06:09 AM
Pete

Mrs Mick is an avid reader of slushy romantic tales that involve beautiful women having their bodices ripped off by lusty young men etc etc.
Regards

Mick

Its funny how the women call it pornography when we read such tales but romance when they read it. Mind I suppose Mrs Micks aren't illustrated.

SteveB
15-02-11, 06:12 AM
PC World and John Lewis have started to sell Kindles now, making it easier to go try one out. No glare from the one we tried in JL, but it was runnnig some demo mode so we couldn't actually try it out properly.

S

Bob McC
15-02-11, 06:45 AM
Pete

Mrs Mick is an avid reader of slushy romantic tales that involve beautiful women having their bodices ripped off by lusty young men etc etc.

It would be so much easier to have it all in a little grey box than hundred of paperbacks. She does the bulk of her reading either on the sun roof or the beach, both of which are sunny. We don't have clouds in Spain.

Regards

Mick

on the sun roof

whilst you're driving?

Mick P
15-02-11, 06:48 AM
on the sun roof

whilst you're driving?

No such luck

Azzy
15-02-11, 07:01 AM
e-Readers aren't backlit, so glare should not be much of a problem.

sticking to e-ink only devices some/most are not backlit - some are!

to chip in for Mick's query bright sunlight is very good for reading the kindle possibly due to the pearlesant screen or that it's not a (local) single point source like a light bulb- which from the right angle/close enough can be seen,

it's the glass/gloss type screens that have sun issues . e.g. ipad


I'm loving mine and would keep it over my ipod touch
J

Steven Toy
15-02-11, 07:25 AM
The Kindle comes as an app for the twatphone and Android. This means you can turn the page and enlarge the print just by touching the screen.

Jo Sharp
16-02-11, 01:56 AM
Mick,

Kindle is fine in bright light outdoors.

But be aware that as the screen is not backlit, you need some sort of light if you are outside in the evening or in a dimly lit room. Some of the leather covers available for the Kindle have a built-in LED light which is powered from the Kindle and provides a neat solution.


http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61AhPlxeomL._AA1000_.jpg

DuncanF
16-02-11, 06:59 AM
Pete

What would it be like reading on the beach in the Spanish sun ?

Would the screen take the glare ?

Regards

Mick
I took my kindle to Cyprus last year in August (i.e. lots of direct sunlight). No problem at all lounging by the pool reading it.

Jonathan Ribee
16-02-11, 08:25 AM
I've been reading some of those "legacy" books recently. How ever did we cope with such heavy and unwieldy objects back in the '00s? The macho manipulation of these objects must have been part of the crude hunter-gatherer culture.

Rayleigh Chopper, curly-wurlys, jumpers for goalposts etc

Fox
20-02-11, 02:45 AM
. . .

Joe Hutch
20-02-11, 02:53 AM
I've been reading some of those "legacy" books recently. How ever did we cope with such heavy and unwieldy objects back in the '00s? The macho manipulation of these objects must have been part of the crude hunter-gatherer culture.

Rayleigh Chopper, curly-wurlys, jumpers for goalposts etc

Against that, books printed 500 years ago are still legible today, whereas 'legacy' computer stuff is often unreadable without much faffing about and expensive jiggery-pokery; cf the BBC Domesday Project:

http://www.csa.com/discoveryguides/cyber/overview.php

Fox
20-02-11, 03:11 AM
Electronic typography (or lack of) bothers me as well, ye legacie books are usually very carefully typeset, especially with children's and young adult books I like to read. There's a skill to digital typesetting that doesn't quite seem to translate to e-ink. Paper and ink have reflective qualities none of the ebook readers seem to replicate. Ligatures, graphemes and glyphs -- stuff that people don't normally zone in on and so on seem to not exist in this brave new world.

I am not sure about movable type either, with an eBook the notion of a "page" changes with the fount size and line spacings but to me the number of words and layout of the page is part of the package, like spacings in a poem may seem arbitrary, but they are not, they are a decision made by the author or the typesetter.

A few official eBooks I have seen are just OCRed and no proofreading has been made so they have odd little typos littered throughout. Paoulini's Eragon and Eldest both paid-for "official" eBooks both had typos in the names so that they became Dragon. Seeing as Eragon is a dragon, this transposition became infuriating after just a few pages. I doubt I could cope with typos in an e-Lord of the Rings when I next re read it (and the various books of lost tales) this summer.

Jonathan Ribee
20-02-11, 04:04 AM
The OCRed ones are horrible. My pet hate: When you have a hyphenated word which has been hyphenated because the word that goes over the end of he line in the original typesetting, but since you can change the font size and the original kindle line width was probably different, this word appears in the middle of a line - - I think it is the inability to use the full flexibility of the technology that annoys me.

Now everything is written in Word or Pages, you would have thought the final file from that could have been used, with all the flexibility of presentation intact. New releases seem to be like this. Anything in "catch up" can be ropey. Which is a shame, as the great value complete Dickens / Shakespeare / Tolstoy etc for 0.99 are mostly in the ropey group.

Fox
20-02-11, 04:52 AM
So its early days? Like the hastily put together CDs of 1984 to fill the shelves -- all wrongly EQed, often out of phase or badly summed and with a treble that would strip enamel from your teeth?

I'm just not sure about eBooks. I love the portability though. I never easily made the transition to CD (though happily made it to streaming from Spotify to Sonos, because it has all of the innocence of how life was before HiFi -- like listening to Radio).

All of my recent casual reading hardback books are bought used, on Amazon, for around 1p (plus postage so 2.10-ish each?) On a per-cost basis it's not exactly compelling. Like buying used vs downloaded music. Plus its another plastic gadget I am not sure I really need, the iPad was a horrible mistake (which I bought twice just to be sure it wasn;t just me being an asshat), even though the Sonos controller for it is fantastic and a good reason to own one.

Jo Sharp
20-02-11, 05:00 AM
Rarely will I venture anywhere without WiFi so I guess I'm zoning in on the WiFi only version as it has better battery life... and is cheaper...

But I don't want it to stop me reading real books, I guess that's my main worry.

You can turn off the wifi/3g in the Kindle to save power.

And you can email docs and pdf files to your kindle which allows you to take work with you.

I still like a real book as well Fox, but the kindle gives me extra flexibility if I want to travel light.

Fox
20-02-11, 05:32 AM
If I do jump for one (and that's by no means decided) I doubt it could come close to replicating the experience of my latest "legacy" book acquisition:

http://www.dragons-friendly-society.co.uk/images/noggin_catalogue/NogginBooks.gif

The complete Noggin the Nog 12 book box set which has been gnawing at my wallet for a few years now... Kindle might work for a bit of Dan Brown or Jennifer Crusie or the new Jason Bourne book just out, sure, but I think if I were to lose the joy of the artefact I'd probably go the opposite way to the rest of the world. The physical presence of books is really very comforting to me, some of them I regard as my oldest and most enduring friends.

Jo Sharp
20-02-11, 02:32 PM
Nice to have the complete set.

My treasure is the first edition set of Chitty Chitty Bang Bang

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQm5fpbsA_CBA8OCjdEP2aXDMMFKjWDw TXMgv3d_vhUB4sC80V_BQ

Pete the Feet
20-02-11, 02:35 PM
I believe the book is quite good

RichardH
21-02-11, 12:00 AM
I am reading Brian Jaques' Redwall series

Just heard the other day on R4's "Last Word" that he had died on the 4th of Feb. Fascinating life he had.

As you were...

Jonathan Ribee
23-02-11, 04:04 AM
Kindle - latest software update includes page numbers referenced to a particular ISBN issue of the book. Will no doubt take a bit for all the books to get the data.

Fox
24-02-11, 03:23 AM
mhm. Just bought 20 books for casual reading on Amazon's Marketplace. All used. Most "Very Good" or better condition in hardback at 1p each plus 2.80 P&P even at 2.81 per book when the digital download is 5-7 its just not financially worthwhile spending 110 on a reader plus an extra 2.20 per book when the legacy dead tree versions still have significant cost benefit plus I can lend them to people to read without needing a computer. Vinyl vs MP3 again.

Colour me unconvinced for now. Also after looking at one the kindle really poor at showing illustrations (I read a lot of children's and young adult books and the image scans appear very poor). Very light and convenient I agree.

Bob McC
24-02-11, 08:12 AM
Only a loon pays for books on Kindle.
Download Calibre
Subscribe to Bolt.org
Should be enough stuff there to keep you going.

Fox
24-02-11, 08:20 AM
Oh no. No no no no no.
Thats really bad juju.

Mick P
24-02-11, 08:28 AM
fox

I have two book cases and both are stuffed with books, I literally do not have the room to fit another book in which means I am going to have to buy another bookcase.

I can see the attraction of a kindle, especially if you travel a lot.

One little plastic gizmo with a thousand books inside it.

It just seems sensible to go for it.

The only reason to hold back is that next year someone will come up with a better and cheaper variant.

Regards

Mick

Bob McC
24-02-11, 08:30 AM
Just 2 bookcases Mick? And no room for anymore? In your pile?

Fox
24-02-11, 08:38 AM
Mick's a pauper don't you know.

I think I'll let this sensation pass me by for now. At least with a physical book you cannot mysteriously find UK-authored books with American spellings, or re-edited or worse. (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/technology/companies/18amazon.html). Plus, unlike print books, digital books are subject to VAT. I find that hard to swallow as a matter of principle.

Mick P
24-02-11, 08:48 AM
Just 2 bookcases Mick? And no room for anymore? In your pile?

Bob

I ruthlessly turnover books. I buy them, I read them and I give them away to friends.

I am not a hoarder.

I only keep books on Vintage motorcycles, British criminals and the odd one that I cannot stop re reading such as Alexandre Dumas.

Regards

Mick

Martin D
24-02-11, 08:52 AM
Mick
How about an iPad? I take mine everywhere with tons of reading on it

Martin

Mick P
24-02-11, 08:58 AM
Mick
How about an iPad? I take mine everywhere with tons of reading on it

Martin

Martin

Can you expand on that please.

Regards

Mick

canonman
24-02-11, 09:01 AM
Martin

Can you expand on that please.

Regards

Mick
The new iPad 2 arrives next week

Pete the Feet
24-02-11, 09:06 AM
ipad no good on the beach as there is too much glare, pluswho wants a screen with dirty fingeprints on the screen due to page turning.

it appears to me that an ipad is a solution looking for a use.

Jonathan Ribee
24-02-11, 09:06 AM
I find the ipad too heavy and the screen too reflective to be a proper book substitute.

Good for couch based horizontal surfing and basic mobile econsumption.

Fox
24-02-11, 09:07 AM
Kindle for iPad (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/feature.html/ref=kcp_ipad_mkt_lnd?docId=1000423883)

There are murmurs (http://www.thebookseller.com/news/apple-move-raises-doubts-over-kindle-app.html) that Amazon is going to pull it because of Apple's demand for a 30% cut on all in app purchases and iBooks isn't doing that great apparently. Yet another danger of eBooks is carrier obsolescence. If it's pulled you don't have access to your eBooks and will have to buy and sync to another Kindle device. Like people (myself included) who bought VLC for iPad. Pulled. Gone. Not Supported. So iPad = Ditched. Gone. Not Interested.

Martin D
24-02-11, 09:09 AM
I was bought one as a present, i am very mac but wasn't sure about it. It's bloody fantastic as you'd expect from Apple, great book store, you can put PDF's on it read word documents etc etc watch films and tv progs, has internet / email / google maps / google earth / calendar and is great for travelling around as i do in Europe (with the kayak application) the battery life seems incredible too

And yes i do hear the new one is very soon!

Martin

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/kayak-hd-flights-hotels-explore/id363205965?mt=8

http://www.apple.com/ipad/features/

Martin D
24-02-11, 09:09 AM
Ah glare

dont read on the beach me!

Fox
25-02-11, 01:59 AM
to protect my legacy books when travelling I am looking for a couple of protective sleeves. Approx 9 x 6 x 2" for trade hardbacks and maybe a size up for the larger hardback books.

These in the USA look good (http://www.renaissance-art.com/Prod90/Product.aspx) -- hand made obviously a small business. Its a shame I cannot find anyone in the UK to make something similar for me. Anyone know of a UK suppier competitively priced? If not I will go with these guys.

I had a feel of the Kindle next to the latest Sony e-reader and the kindle is very plasticky, the Sony eReader is metal and much sturdier. I'd be surprised if someone like Mick would be happy holding a bit of mass-produced plastic.

Mick P
26-02-11, 05:27 AM
Chaps

We are off to dinner with friends tonight and they will hopefully be bringing their kindle with them for us to look at.

If we like them, we will probably go for 4. One each for home use and one each in Spain.

Before we dive in, is there any creditable competition out there other than this Sony e-reader.

Regards

Mick

Pete the Feet
26-02-11, 05:39 AM
Loadsamoney.

Look at his wad!!!

Basil
26-02-11, 06:05 AM
Ha! Mick Parry - richer than you.

Pete the Feet
26-02-11, 06:30 AM
Everybody is richer than me, I only work for the NHS.

Basil
26-02-11, 06:31 AM
Everybody is richer than me, I only work for the NHS.

Then you are richer in spirit by far.

Joe Hutch
26-02-11, 06:32 AM
Especially surgical spirit.

Pete the Feet
26-02-11, 06:35 AM
Then you are richer in spirit by far.

It will be in spirit soon when the Condems kill it off.

Basil
26-02-11, 06:39 AM
It will be in spirit soon when the Condems kill it off.

Damn straight,

You might want to check this out.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00yrg25/The_News_Quiz_Series_73_Episode_8/

Fox
26-02-11, 07:34 AM
Ha! Mick Parry - richer than you.

and delightfully vulgar with it...

Bob McC
26-02-11, 08:37 AM
Chaps

We are off to dinner with friends tonight and they will hopefully be bringing their kindle with them for us to look at.

If we like them, we will probably go for 4. One each for home use and one each in Spain.

Before we dive in, is there any creditable competition out there other than this Sony e-reader.

Regards

Mick

Mick
No there isn't.
In terms of the reading experience Kindles are unbeatable.

Mick P
26-02-11, 08:41 AM
Chaps

For goodness sake, stop sounding like a poor version of citizen smith. These gizmos cost chicken shit.

I have been looking around this afternoon in the town centre and for the same money I can buy either 4 ebooks or 1 Ipad which also faciliatates ebook reading. I looked at a kindle and sony equivalent, both looked ok and also wandered into the Apple shop and looked at the Ipad.

I would appreciate your learned comments rather than sarcasm and just remember I am a baby boomer and we like our gizmos.

So does anyone have any recommendations

Regards

Mick .. just a poor old pensioner wanting to have a good read in his twilight years.

Mick P
26-02-11, 08:42 AM
Mick
No there isn't.
In terms of the reading experience Kindles are unbeatable.

Bob

Thank you for your considered response.

Regards

Mick

John
26-02-11, 09:41 AM
Mick,

I would buy a Kindle and an iPad. The Kindle for iBooks and an iPad for email and net surfing. Both are excellent for what they are. A man of your means should be without both. Great for travel too!

John

Fox
26-02-11, 09:48 AM
Two iPads and two kindles. Don't want to leave Mrs Mick out of the fun after promising to buy four kindles... and as you say you can afford it, being a pauper isn't so bad.

Joe Hutch
26-02-11, 09:51 AM
Two iPads and two kindles. Don't want to leave Mrs Mick out of the fun after promising to buy four kindles...

That sounds like a line from a Two Ronnies sketch.

Bob McC
26-02-11, 09:53 AM
Mick
Any type of PC screen will lead to eye strain, headaches, etc much faster than a Kindle type screen.
The Kindle's time between recharges is unbeatable.
With the dearer Kindle you can access the internet and emails anywhere as well.

Fox
26-02-11, 09:53 AM
:) I think Mick could singlehandedly restart the UK economy by filling his life with gadgets and gizmos. By the time the shinyness of it all has worn off I think he'll be ready for an iPhone 5.... Surely "The Naim of Mobile phones"

Basil
26-02-11, 09:53 AM
That sounds like a line from a Two Ronnies sketch.

Four candles?

sideshowbob
27-02-11, 02:51 AM
Anyone who thinks an Ipad is any good for reading books on doesn't read for very long.

Anyway, the most recent Sony eReaders are better reading devices than Kindles, science fact.

ErikL
27-02-11, 02:59 AM
Anyway, the most recent Sony eReaders are better reading devices than Kindles, science fact.
The Sony has no inbuilt keyboard. It's like the iPad. Crap, Ian! ;-)

sideshowbob
27-02-11, 03:01 AM
I've never read a book that had a keyboard attached to it :-)

ErikL
27-02-11, 03:10 AM
I've never read a book that had a keyboard attached to it :-)
...or a stylus pen (c. 1996). ;-)

NeilK
27-02-11, 03:15 AM
From being a Sony user in the past I'm now using a kindle (bought in December after comparing the new Sony and borrowing my neighbours iPad for a day).

The keyboard is handy for making notes on documents and for buying books/leaving review comments, especially at these times when you don't have Mac/PC access nearby.
I really liked the iPad as plaything, it has an excellent HCI for "books" and nice pageturn animations but I felt it would become a little heavy after a while and, of course, the battery life is limited in comparison with with the kindle or other dedicated e-readers. I did use it outside on a fairly bright day and did not notice the reflections/screen problems sometimes talked about. I was very taken with the device but decided that the financial outlay wasn't justified (maybe the iPad 2? ...........).

Fox
27-02-11, 03:32 AM
The iPad 2 is most likely going to be the same price as the iPad 1. If you want a device to read from then e-readers do one thing and one thing reasonably well (if that's your kind of thing), from owning two, the iPad does a lot of things -- just none of them very well.

The 5" Sony PRS 300 is about 70-80 quid. The 6" PRS-350 (touch, no Wifi) seems to be around 130-140 the 6" Kindle Wifi is 111. The Sony is machined metal and quite well made, the Kindle is some kind of moulded plastic but you have access to the Amazon store -- unless you feel ok stealing content. It still seems like a great way to allow these corporations to come into your life and control yet another aspect of ones media consumption. I may see about a Sony ereader for library Journal articles though.

Another set of hardback books bought from the Marketplace: Michelle Paver's 6 book set: Chronicles of Ancient Darkness series (I read Wolf Brother and liked it enough to try the others) -- again 1p each. Minters. Kindle price 5.99 each I'm not exactly sold by these shiny gadgets when secondhand physical book prices are so keen. Where Kindle seems to reach price parity is with new hardbacks and <1 year old (paperback still has the edge) but still...

Bob McC
27-02-11, 03:56 AM
Of course there is
http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Main_Page
where you can download any book that is out of copyright free and then convert it to Kindle format if it isn't already compatible with
http://calibre-ebook.com/
so even Fox needn't have sleepless nights worrying about theft.

At least with electronic books you aren't risking introducing all sorts of nasty insects into the home as you are with s/h paper..

Fox
27-02-11, 04:02 AM
I never thought you would be the Howard Hughes type.
Anyway up in midgie-land insects are a fine source of free protein, its how we make-do in such hellish conditions.

Mick P
27-02-11, 04:09 AM
Chaps

There is no need to argue, there is nothing to stop you have a kindle and to buy your second hand paper backs. Both are cheap.

We had a play around with the kindle last night and it was ok. I couldn't get over excited about it but it is certainly something everyone should own.

You can order your newspapers whilst abroad but the downside is no pictures or photgraphs, but evidently you soon get used to it.

I certainly prefer it to the Ipad, less bulky and lighter.

Mrs Mick prefers paper books.

Regards

Mick