View Full Version : Later Tannoy dual concentric drivers


rabbit
14-11-09, 12:19 PM
I really would like to try out some big "vintage" Tannoys but the price of anything with Monitor Gold drivers has gone through the roof. Can anybody comment on the drawbacks of the later models, specifically DC386's (the 15 inch units used in MkII Berkeleys and Ardens). Thanks.

Joe P
14-11-09, 12:47 PM
rabbit,

but the price of anything with Monitor Gold drivers has gone through the roof
Indeed (http://cgi.ebay.com/TANNOY-15-Dual-Concentric-L-S-Type-LSU-HF-15L-Red_W0QQitemZ270481042969QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVintag e_Electronics_R2?hash=item3ef9ed2e19#ht_2732wt_109 7).

I've tried the Berks and they're good, but they're definitely from the phat end of the spectrum. I suspect the Ardens are a worthwhile step up, as the cabinet is much bigger, but I've not actually heard them so it's a guess on my part.

Joe

rabbit
14-11-09, 12:53 PM
And I thought the UK prices were high !!!!

Were those Berkeleys with the HPD drivers or DC's? I am led to believe that the HPD's are a reasonable substitute for Golds but that the DC's are something different..........not sure if that's good or bad yet.

cooky1257
14-11-09, 12:59 PM
HPD's and 386's are all good, you can recone a HPD as a Gold as they share the same basket and Alnico magnet/horn,the 386's/3828/3829 are the series with ferrite magnets and lighter mag alloy open baskets, the horn throat is shorter and lower distortion than the HPD or Gold. The HPD and 38** series all use Tanoplas foam surrounds that goes sticky and falls apart over time. They are all excellent, all have the family Tannoy sound. The Berkerley cabs are too small and sound crap.

Joe P
14-11-09, 02:15 PM
rabbit,

The Berks I tried had HPD drivers, freshly refoamed by a Tannoy engineer.

Joe

Robert
14-11-09, 02:28 PM
Don't dismiss the polymer coned stuff from the late 70s.
I picked up a pair of 10" Chesters for 150 and they were excellent.
On moving up to 12" LGMs I'd say that with hindsight that was a downgrade.

Freeform
14-11-09, 02:53 PM
I got some System 1000s (10 inch polymer cone) from my good friend MarkS a couple of years ago and have never looked back. Very low distortion - subjectively - and I don't hear any of the infamous Tannoy coloration. Excellent liear bass for the size. Never got my friend with bigger Tannoys - currently Westminster Royals - to bring any down to mine so not much to compare except a number of other much vaunted high-end pretenders that did not deliver.

ff1d1l
14-11-09, 03:58 PM
As well as owning some 15" reds, 15" golds 15" HPD's and 12" silvers and 12" golds I recently acquired some CPA 12's. Think theyre from the nineties. These are smallish trapezoidal cabinets housing a 12" 3134 dual concentric, ported with 2 ports. Their leaflet, which can be found on hilberink says they used DMT technology in the cabinet (unusually constructed with metal extrusions for corners), and having had mine open I can say the remarkably dead - and heavy - cabinet is also cross braced inside a la B&W matrix. The driver has a VERY open cast basket and paper cone/tulip waveguide, originally (think I read somewhere) for open baffle mounting. And air cored chokes in the crossover and Van den Hul internal wiring. These were designed for installed high quality pa duties, theatres, clubs etc. And, while having the usual tannoy efficiency in the high nineties, will accept 350 watts peak. Yet when they come up on ebay they don't fetch much money at all compared to golds...yet these sound extremely nice with most of the tannoy magic of the classics intact, a little more modern, maybe, and edge of your seat, but fine and dynamic with a good soundstage.

cooky1257
14-11-09, 04:11 PM
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/tannoy-CPA12-contractor-series-speakers-band-PA-dj-club_W0QQitemZ110455799620QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Co nElec_SpeakersPASystems_RL?hash=item19b7adbf44#ht_ 541wt_1167
No affiliation, bit on the pricey side imo, best look out for CPA 15's too.

sq225917
14-11-09, 06:53 PM
I paid 225 for mine about 3 months back and they were a little on the dirty side but cabs are in good condition under the grime. The cabinets aren't as dead as you might think, not compared to the 36mm sidewalks on my modded es14s anyway. The grills ring audible when playing so but some shorter allens and take them off. They need to be a good 20" off the floor otherwise the bass can dominate.

They couple to the room wonderfully, though the ports are audible.

NeilR
15-11-09, 12:32 AM
I'd recommend going for some DMT 12s or 15s. Damn good without the sky high prices of the classic models.

lexi
15-11-09, 02:56 AM
rabbit,


Indeed (http://cgi.ebay.com/TANNOY-15-Dual-Concentric-L-S-Type-LSU-HF-15L-Red_W0QQitemZ270481042969QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVintag e_Electronics_R2?hash=item3ef9ed2e19#ht_2732wt_109 7).

I've tried the Berks and they're good, but they're definitely from the phat end of the spectrum. I suspect the Ardens are a worthwhile step up, as the cabinet is much bigger, but I've not actually heard them so it's a guess on my part.

Joe

I always understood bass reflex cabs to give an increase in bass for a smaller size cab. It does seem strange to have a bass reflex (Berkely and Arden )with a big 15" driver. That is the Phat sound? My Devons were different sound wise.......and better in some ways.

Tony L
15-11-09, 03:13 AM
I always understood bass reflex cabs to give an increase in bass for a smaller size cab. It does seem strange to have a bass reflex (Berkely and Arden )with a big 15" driver. That is the Phat sound? My Devons were different sound wise.......and better in some ways.

From what I can work out from reading the whole of the Yahoo Tannoy list there are three cab designs that are accepted by the Tannerds for 15" Golds (I assume the same applies for other units). They are:

75L infinite baffle. The smallest and most compromised, e.g. Lancasters. Apparently 75L is the right size for a sealed Tannoy cab. I do not understand the math, so I can't explain why.

200L ported. This is the equivalent of the York. Apparently making the cab bigger than this brings little, though making it smaller is a bad thing.

Big and horn loaded. R-GRFs through to Autographs. The best cabs to stick the drivers in. I need to hear some.

Based on the above Berkleys are certainly wrong, though Ardens might be getting close to a York in volume. I get the impression that many of Tannoy's own cabs lack the necessary rigidity, so whilst the math is right the implementation can be improved. I've got mine in a massively over-engineered DIY variation of Lancaster corner cabs that seem to overcome many of the criticisms I've read regarding the originals, I have no practical experience though.

Tony.

lexi
15-11-09, 06:03 AM
I`ve beefed the Berkely cabs up no end. You always think they sound better but you then have nowt but memory as a reference:D Not a problem .........cabs are worth nowt. Better cabs are the way forward. I would build what I thought would be best in my room(smallish).

Metal stands and now have heavy slate tops.


http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p92/alexbowie/DSC04160.jpg.

75ltre IB sealed. maybe a good recipe for smaller room? Easier DIY project.

Joe P
15-11-09, 06:10 AM
lexi,

It occurred to me that the Berks would hugely benefit from internal bracing, so I think you've done something well worth the effort.

Joe

P.S. Phat = Full, juicy bass.

poppop
15-11-09, 06:56 AM
2 pence worth. I have Berkeleys - recently rebuilt by Lockwood(upgraded HPD 15's) and new passive crossovers. Around 500 all in - helpful bloke Roger! Now also using with Audiosmiles supertweets.

As Lexi above Ive also got them about 15" in the air on Stone pedestals, this has certainly helped the bass. The largest area of relatively unbraced cabinet is the rear panel. This has had a further addition of 28mm ply glued and screwed externally. Certainly the old hand on test would suggest its deader!!

When funds permit a new Arden sized cabinet BUT braced with thicker walls will help.

Steve.

ian r
15-11-09, 07:41 AM
Dare one mention 611's in this august company and ask for views on that part of the Tannoy catalogue <from a non Tannoy owner>

ff1d1l
15-11-09, 07:50 AM
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/tannoy-CPA12-contractor-series-speakers-band-PA-dj-club_W0QQitemZ110455799620QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Co nElec_SpeakersPASystems_RL?hash=item19b7adbf44#ht_ 541wt_1167
No affiliation, bit on the pricey side imo, best look out for CPA 15's too.

That's them...more than I paid too, but in real terms well worth worth it (no affiliation, just what I think)...unless you think golds wildly overpriced! I'd take someones arm off if I was offered CPA15's...

Compared to domestic Tannoy cabs these are in a different league for solidity and deadness IMHO. and, what is more, the rear of the driver is braced internally against the cabinet cross reinforcement. Cabs are very dead when playing music loud and sound is clean with minimal cabinet contribution. But they DO have to be raised to give their best.

cooky1257
15-11-09, 08:29 AM
That's them...more than I paid too, but in real terms well worth worth it (no affiliation, just what I think)...unless you think golds wildly overpriced! I'd take someones arm off if I was offered CPA15's...

Compared to domestic Tannoy cabs these are in a different league for solidity and deadness IMHO. and, what is more, the rear of the driver is braced internally against the cabinet cross reinforcement. Cabs are very dead when playing music loud and sound is clean with minimal cabinet contribution. But they DO have to be raised to give their best.

Oh I do indeed think Golds are overpriced-some people are takin the p***.

Moko
15-11-09, 09:25 AM
Someone else with 611's. l

Looking at ebay recently and they seem to be creeping up in price as people come to realise for around 150 they are a great sounding speaker for their size.

Unfortunately they don't sound as good as the little red monitors or chester's that I demo'd my amp with, but they were well outside my budget but I would love a proper 10" DC when funds permit (unfortunately don't have room for the real big tannoy's)

ff1d1l
15-11-09, 09:51 AM
Oh I do indeed think Golds are overpriced-some people are takin the p***.

Yes...but no shortage of punters prepared to donate a urine sample...