View Full Version : Audiophile


Cereal Killer
18-12-09, 04:27 PM
What does the word ‘Audiophile’ mean to you and do you think it has a negative connotation these days?

markt
18-12-09, 04:37 PM
Certainly used in a pejorative way I think, no fun in the term bit like calling someone a boring git.

We should think of a name more upbeat and positive.

What do you reckon to STEREOHEAD?

Ok, maybe not :)

hughjampton
18-12-09, 04:38 PM
If you told a Sun reader you were one he'd probably try to kick your head in.

panda
18-12-09, 04:49 PM
someone who is more into 'audio' than in music. hence i would be offended if called one.

Robert
18-12-09, 05:14 PM
Twenty five-thirty years ago+ I'd say it meant a discerning music lover looking for or owning a system to further their love of music, make the experience more enjoyable.

Today I see the word and automatically think, crank or basket-case.
A shame as there are some exceptions but they get fewer by the day :(

dave
18-12-09, 05:28 PM
The only problem with audio are the evangelists who are Hell-bent on saving the rest of us from ourselves. I can think of few things more irritating than someone telling me what I can or can't hear or what I should or shouldn't like.

Tenson
18-12-09, 05:41 PM
You shouldn't think that.

vuk
18-12-09, 06:17 PM
I can think of few things more irritating than someone telling me what I can or can't hear or what I should or shouldn't like.

you mean like chris koster ;-)


vuk.

ClaraBannister
18-12-09, 06:18 PM
The only problem with audio are the evangelists who are Hell-bent on saving the rest of us from ourselves. I can think of few things more irritating than someone telling me what I can or can't hear or what I should or shouldn't like.

It could be that these people, too, are irritated. By the fact that the system they would like to own is priced beyond their reach, because the market has become inflated through the gullibility of many other enthusiasts, who think nothing of paying several thousand pounds for a pickup cartridge.

dave
18-12-09, 08:17 PM
you mean like chris koster ;-)


vuk.

More like John Watson;-)

dave
18-12-09, 08:19 PM
It could be that these people, too, are irritated. By the fact that the system they would like to own is priced beyond their reach, because the market has become inflated through the gullibility of many other enthusiasts, who think nothing of paying several thousand pounds for a pickup cartridge.

Why not be honest instead of appearing stupid and insulting?

Joe P
18-12-09, 10:00 PM
Audiophile (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdXGA2B0yq0)

Musicophile (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o72GDj7svq4)

Joe

Tenson
18-12-09, 10:12 PM
Both are good?


Edit: Though the video for Tom Waits seems to have little to do with temptation.

DevillEars
19-12-09, 12:12 AM
Time to stir a little... :)

Given the distinctly anti-American gear and pro-British stance of many on this forum, maybe 'audiophile' is a contraction of 'audio' and 'Anglophile'? :D

PS: The inverted snobbery that surfaces occasionally indicates that there is also another category - 'audiophobe', or someone who resents any and all that own either music collections or audio systems that he/she can only aspire to (or need a few more years of work and saving to be able to afford), so castigate those that have already got there - either through windfalls or by accumulation over a longer period.

:cool:

kuma
19-12-09, 12:29 AM
Old, fat and bald.

James
19-12-09, 01:07 AM
Audiophiles are intersted in audio reproduction. Some may be more interested in the means (shiny gear); others in the ends (lovely music or accurate sound). There is nothing wrong or derogatory with either. When was the last time you mocked someone for owning a Lamborghini Gallardo, even if they couldn't drive it properly?

James

BIFFA
19-12-09, 01:16 AM
Anal to the nth degree.
I don't mind the term to be honest.

Cereal Killer
19-12-09, 01:26 AM
I don't find the term very endearing, in fact, when i first saw a mag with 'the' word written on the front cover i had to ask the own what it was and if it should be on display..... to me it comes across, and always has, a bit nerdy and slightly embarrassing. I've never referred myself to being one.

PS. I was at 'The Listening Rooms' on Old Brompton Road, Kensington, London, at the time buying some red piano finsihed MA studio 6's.

BIFFA
19-12-09, 01:31 AM
People are always wanting to label people into boxes.
You can call what you like I won't hear you I will be listening to some tunes maan!!!

Cereal Killer
19-12-09, 01:38 AM
The words enough to scare kids/new comers aways, and seriously needs deleting from this hobbies dictionary if its to survive IMO.

DevillEars
19-12-09, 01:39 AM
Old, fat and bald.

Speak for yourself, my dear... :cool:

Cereal Killer
19-12-09, 02:00 AM
http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv48/r-tee/n588873370_1171800_9461.jpg

Me, wifey and son (page boy) at a friends wedding

Joe Hutch
19-12-09, 02:03 AM
What does the word ‘Audiophile’ mean to you and do you think it has a negative connotation these days?

It means a long-defunct magazine to me.

Cereal Killer
19-12-09, 02:08 AM
But manufacturers still refer to their potential customers as Audiophiles.... if my wife knew people in this hobby were called that she'd probably have a good laugh.

Joe Hutch
19-12-09, 02:13 AM
My wife has a good laugh any way, in a resigned 'what have you bought now?' kind of way.

mudlark
19-12-09, 02:13 AM
occasionally geeks become cool so on that basis I vote for:-

Audiogeek

It makes us sound a little bit younger than the audiophile word.

One thing that always saddens me in the field of interest is the obvious over use of testosterone type behaviour. It's a bit like the car fraternity.
(I am as guilty as the next on that one)

Cereal Killer
19-12-09, 02:16 AM
'Geeks' have always been cool, its just a name dumb people call clever people to make themselves feel better

kuma
19-12-09, 02:17 AM
Speak for yourself, my dear... :cool:
I might be ancient, but not fat and still have a full set of hair.:D

Cereal Killer
19-12-09, 02:18 AM
My wife has a good laugh any way, in a resigned 'what have you bought now?' kind of way.

does your better half know 'the word' Joe?

Cereal Killer
19-12-09, 02:19 AM
I might be ancient, but not fat and still have a full set of hair.:D

I assume, on your head :D

kuma
19-12-09, 02:24 AM
'Geeks' have always been cool,
It's a *post* Bill Gates/Steve Jobs syndrome.

Geeky and Nerdy were never cool. But of course, they rule the world, now and get all the hot babes.

Joe Hutch
19-12-09, 02:25 AM
No. I remember her years ago chucking aside a copy of 'What Hi-Fi?' with a contemptuous sneer and the comment: 'What a load of rubbish. It should be entitled 'Which Hi-Fi?' anyway'.

Joe Hutch
19-12-09, 02:27 AM
It's a *post* Bill Gates/Steve Jobs syndrome.

Geeky and Nerdy were never cool. But of course, they rule the world, now and get all the hot babes.

And golf players were always middle-aged blokes in silly clothes. I saw a magazine t'other day called 'Golf Punk' which kinda blew my mind.

Cereal Killer
19-12-09, 02:31 AM
remember the film 'caddyshack'

David F
19-12-09, 02:32 AM
Twenty five-thirty years ago+ I'd say it meant a discerning music lover looking for or owning a system to further their love of music, make the experience more enjoyable.

Today I see the word and automatically think, crank or basket-case.
A shame as there are some exceptions but they get fewer by the day :(


That sounds plausable to me.

I don't see anything wrong with an interest in audio and what makes it tick (excuse poss pun) if that improves the soiund cming out of the speakers.

Joe Hutch
19-12-09, 02:34 AM
remember the film 'caddyshack'

Nope. Never even heard of it.

kuma
19-12-09, 02:36 AM
Yes.

Audiophiles have miles to go.
I recall seeing Fabio fiddling with Krell kit in his house in some magazines years ago.

Cereal Killer
19-12-09, 02:40 AM
Nope. Never even heard of it.

this film Joe (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3A9rLoz_0o)

David F
19-12-09, 02:43 AM
It could be that these people, too, are irritated. By the fact that the system they would like to own is priced beyond their reach, because the market has become inflated through the gullibility of many other enthusiasts, who think nothing of paying several thousand pounds for a pickup cartridge.



Don't you start, Clara.

You've been reading too many nonsense pf posts.

christray
19-12-09, 03:30 AM
if more people considered themselves melomanes as opposed to audiophiles it would be better. I sometimes get the impression alot of people own expensive equipment and little music ,but who really knows.

Robert
19-12-09, 03:40 AM
Time to stir a little... :)

Given the distinctly anti-American gear and pro-British stance of many on this forum, maybe 'audiophile' is a contraction of 'audio' and 'Anglophile'? :D

PS: The inverted snobbery that surfaces occasionally indicates that there is also another category - 'audiophobe', or someone who resents any and all that own either music collections or audio systems that he/she can only aspire to (or need a few more years of work and saving to be able to afford), so castigate those that have already got there - either through windfalls or by accumulation over a longer period.

:cool:

Certainly I would have huge admiration for someone running big active ATCs or PMCs from a high quality source. Very expensive items but I see the owners generally as non audiophiles and would view them in a completely different light to someone spending say £50k on a pile of tweaky SET amplification, silver wiring are single driver speakers.

I don't think envy or resentment has much to do with this.

Themis
19-12-09, 04:14 AM
An Audiophile is a romantic music lover, who tries to reproduce the emotional memories associated with his beloved music through a hifi system... and sometimes he manages to do so.

When he does, he associates this success with the reproduction system, and he likes to discussing of all this with others who have been equally successful.

Some of the audiophiles, think they have discovered the only successful way of doing this, and they become dogmatic.
Others, came to the conclusion that the reproduction of such emotions is not due to the reproduction system, then they become equally dogmatic.

Audiophiles pursue a strange quest, they are the Don Quixote of the audio. :)

DevillEars
19-12-09, 04:53 AM
Audiophiles pursue a strange quest, they are the Don Quixote of the audio. :)

To take this analogy a step further...


Would PFM be 'Rosinante'?
Would Sir Allan Com (has to be a knight!) be Miguel de Cervantes?
The dealer network = Sancho Panza?
And the windmills?


:D

markt
19-12-09, 04:56 AM
Audiophiles pursue a strange quest, they are the Don Quixote of the audio. :)


Ultra Bullseye!

The Jesus Christ syndrome is a strange constant and the source of many smiles.

BobMaximus
19-12-09, 05:33 AM
It's a meaningless term exemplified by this forum:

record shop
Audiophile quality second hand vinyl and CDs.

... as opposed to non-audiophile ones. I'm not sure what these are though.

Andy

Fox
19-12-09, 05:45 AM
No its fracking well not meaningless:

In tony's case it means he does the job of checking his stock for quality, lack of warping low noise and so on, visually inspecting (and sometimes cleaning the disks prior to an actual play on a well set up and looked after record player). Accurate and consistent gradings and good condition sleeves and liners... sometimes replacing the bags with fresh ones: Basically he's not handling shite bargain basement trash and passing it off as something better -- as is often the case on Amazon and eBay.

It's the stuff that audiophiles care about (or should IMV).

Mick P
19-12-09, 05:58 AM
Chaps

There are several types of audio enthusiasts.

You have my type, we go for a top notch brand such as Naim and buy the best models of this brand that we can afford. We are normal people. We are relaxed in the knowledge we have the best.

You have those who swap everything every few years. Nothing wrong with them, they are enjoying life and their hobby

You also have the really sad types, those who drone on and on and on about bloody cables etc. They are the really boring ones in this hobby. Basically this lot are a plain bloody embarassment.

Then you have the real under achievers attempting to convince the world that their bodged up tat is better than the original stuff. They are the real all time losers in life and hifi fora.

Regards

Mick

Joe Hutch
19-12-09, 06:31 AM
Then there's the likes of me, only here for the blue LEDs, free beer, and cheap laffs.

Cereal Killer
19-12-09, 06:42 AM
But if someone was to ask you what your personal interests or hobbies were, would you discribe yourself as an Audiophile?

BobMaximus
19-12-09, 06:42 AM
Then you have the real under achievers attempting to convince the world that their bodged up tat is better than the original stuff. They are the real all time losers in life and hifi fora.

Even worse are the ones who go on to sell their bodged-up tat and make money from it. Just because it's got a blue LED on it doesn't make it good does it Mick?

Joe Hutch
19-12-09, 06:47 AM
But if someone was to ask you what your personal interests or hobbies were, would you discribe yourself as an Audiophile?

Ha! No ****ing way, Jose! I describe myself as a bibliophile (though even that's not strictly accurate, as I simply buy lots of books, regardless of their binding or rarity, and acually read them).

Mick P
19-12-09, 06:58 AM
Even worse are the ones who go on to sell their bodged-up tat and make money from it. Just because it's got a blue LED on it doesn't make it good does it Mick?

Bob

Totally agree, lowest of the low. Sort of oik who flogs his tat on ebay to some poor inocent sod and ruins the original equipment makers name in the process.

Regards

Mick

Pete the Feet
19-12-09, 11:23 AM
Old, fat and bald.



Thats another box ticked for me.

Hope I don't fit into any of the following categories but people tend to think of you as sad if you say hifi is an interest or if you show an interest in it.

Sad anorak.
Misfit
Bus ticket collector.
Musician wannabee.
More money than sense.
Aspergers syndrome.
Sociopath.
******.

It seems acceptable if you spend £50/month on Sky or cable though.

honmanm
19-12-09, 12:35 PM
"Audiophile" always reminds me of the two hi-fi dealers in Pretoria. "The Audiophile" was a small shop, very tasteful and classy, selling strange blank-faced electronics and flat things that appeared to be screens to be placed in front of the speakers.

"Hi-fi Installations" was the Quad/Kef/Linn dealer - oddly enough much more down-to-earth and willing to let a national service private listen to their wares.

I came to own a mix of the products offered by the two - LP12, Quad 44 pre-amp, Sumo power amp, and Maggies (flat screeny things) - BUT don't think I even got to listen to anything at "The Audiopile" (I do remember buying a cartridge there...).

That distinction probably still holds - Audiophilism is a bit ideological, cultish - you always need to progress to the next level and there is an element of knocking other people's gear... even the customer's.

Regarding DE's comment as to the Brit-fi centric nature of PFM... true, BUT that's not unexpected as US gear is made for bigger living spaces than are common in the UK.

What is disconcerting about the UK is the Linn-Naim "axis of evil" (TM) which seems to have resulted in many interesting British products getting little attention.

John
19-12-09, 12:37 PM
The only problem with audio are the evangelists who are Hell-bent on saving the rest of us from ourselves. I can think of few things more irritating than someone telling me what I can or can't hear or what I should or shouldn't like.

you mean like chris koster ;-)


vuk.

That's the Chris Koster who deems phase one Mana is best. Seems he has created some disciples.

avole
19-12-09, 12:42 PM
Bob

Totally agree, lowest of the low. Sort of oik who flogs his tat on ebay to some poor inocent sod and ruins the original equipment makers name in the process.

Regards

MickHmm - unlike the discerning audiophile who acts judiciously with the interests of the maker at heart, Mick, but whose elitism clearly doesn't include a basic understanding of spelling and grammar?

Mick P
19-12-09, 12:55 PM
bollox

Darmok
19-12-09, 12:58 PM
^ Mmmm, Capital B. :)

Audio Pile. ;)

Jack Barriere
19-12-09, 12:58 PM
Salut-FI

avole
19-12-09, 01:07 PM
bollox
That should be 'bollocks', Mick. To think you went to a public school...

Jonboi
19-12-09, 02:54 PM
Chaps

There are several types of audio enthusiasts.

You have my type, we go for a top notch brand such as Naim and buy the best models of this brand that we can afford. We are normal people. We are relaxed in the knowledge we have the best.

You have those who swap everything every few years. Nothing wrong with them, they are enjoying life and their hobby

You also have the really sad types, those who drone on and on and on about bloody cables etc. They are the really boring ones in this hobby. Basically this lot are a plain bloody embarassment.

Then you have the real under achievers attempting to convince the world that their bodged up tat is better than the original stuff. They are the real all time losers in life and hifi fora.

Regards

Mick

Mick. More unsubstantiated claims from you. Prove that Naim is the best, - in the same spirit that you demand AVI to 'prove' their claims.

Surely you believe in equality and what's good for the goose is good for the gander and all of that?

dave
19-12-09, 02:59 PM
That's the Chris Koster who deems phase one Mana is best. Seems he has created some disciples.

No more or less than Ghandi, Porky Pig, John Watson or Rudolph The Red-Nosed Reindeer, Vuk, Dave or John.

LoBo
19-12-09, 03:16 PM
Mick it's a shame you feel that way about people who like to 'bodge' their kit. Its a perfect combination of two hobbies: electronics and music HiFi. Our HiFi equipment are electronic devices. If the likes of Julian Vereker, John Farlowe and Richard Dunn never 'bodged' then we wouldn't have a Naim, Exposure and NVA in the first place. Read their histories and how they started. All by tearing apart Quad and Leak kit to see what improvements can be made. Therein lies the learning process which turns bodgers into industry innovators and leaders.

I love my HiFi, it pleases me enormously. I really like Naim, their products are superb. As we know a product is placed on the market with certain constraints, compromises if you like. This ensures one product is not better than the next one in the range otherwise no one would upgrade. Now then, why pay £1000 more for the next preamp up the line when the same benefits can be achieved yourself for a lot less outlay and with a bit of electronics understanding and help from people like this forum. A Nac72 can be turned into an 82 or even a 102 beater for hundreds of pounds less. Some of us do not care about the kudos of owning the best or most expensive kit. It's about getting the most from a product rather than upgrading every few months to impress.

Sorry, my 2p's worth.

I think I may have Audiophile tendencies! Say what you will....

Rich

Cereal Killer
19-12-09, 03:20 PM
'Audiophile' sounds like a word we/most hide from so should the Mags and manufacturers stop using it... ?

dave
19-12-09, 03:30 PM
Everyone here is an audiophile. Some just can't admit it to themselves since the internet audio forums made it politically incorrect several years ago.

The biggest lie in hifi is likely "it's all about the music."

kuma
19-12-09, 03:34 PM
dave,

You're wrong.

I am an auidophilette.

Cereal Killer
19-12-09, 03:37 PM
how would you discribe what an Audiophile is then dave?

dave
19-12-09, 03:42 PM
dave,

You're wrong.

I am an auidophilette.

Tacking the suffix "ette" on the end of any word brings visions of Betty Crocker hairdos and aprons, heels and a pearl necklace cooking a Thanksgiving dinner.

Hmmm...what would Freud have to say about this?

regards,

dave

dave
19-12-09, 03:46 PM
how would you discribe what an Audiophile is then dave?

Standard definitions found in any dictionary suit me just fine, Raj.

kuma
19-12-09, 03:54 PM
Tacking the suffix "ette" on the end of any word brings visions of Betty Crocker hairdos and aprons, heels and a pearl necklace cooking a Thanksgiving dinner.

http://blog.makezine.com/hifi_1954_00.preview.jpg

Cereal Killer
19-12-09, 04:00 PM
thats a nice rack she has there

Cereal Killer
19-12-09, 04:02 PM
this then (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-gb:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7TSEA_en-GBGB349GB349&defl=en&q=define:Audiophile&ei=JlwtS6SMDeWZjAfI5oWQBw&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title&ved=0CAcQkAE)

kuma
19-12-09, 04:11 PM
A real *hard-core* Audiophilette.
http://www.kumadesign.com/pix/betty.jpg

dave
19-12-09, 04:12 PM
http://blog.makezine.com/hifi_1954_00.preview.jpg

Frightening isn't it ;-)

dave
19-12-09, 04:39 PM
this then (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-gb:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7TSEA_en-GBGB349GB349&defl=en&q=define:Audiophile&ei=JlwtS6SMDeWZjAfI5oWQBw&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title&ved=0CAcQkAE)

I have no problem with those definitions.

Cereal Killer
19-12-09, 04:47 PM
the issue isnt the dictionary definitions though its the general perception from outside the interest

Pete the Feet
19-12-09, 04:50 PM
If you can't whistle it, it ain't music.

Fox
19-12-09, 05:26 PM
Bless

Joe P
19-12-09, 06:11 PM
Raj,

SCM-50ASL/DAC1-HDR/AE
No more Lyngdorf?

Joe

Cereal Killer
20-12-09, 01:56 AM
Nope :) thought you might have picked this up a few weeks ago Joe !!

Cereal Killer
20-12-09, 02:12 AM
It was becuase of a deal I couldn’t refuse! a great P/X price against some speakers I’ve wanted for the last 10 years or so! I’ve a history with ATC, with the SIA2-150 and SCM20SL partnered with a meridian 588, wired with stereovox throughout. It was an amazingly well balanced system.

what got this move going was at high volumes and with Roomperfect i found the limitations of the Arcs quickly, considering the type of music i listen to, at quite high volume levels, (70% electronica) was wanting the bass to be controlled so was thinking of adding the boundary woofers and an SDA2175, but that’s another £3000ish, my upgrade to what i have now was less and that’s all that it came down too.

Oh yes ,and the fact that after getting a CDP again but only using on the odd occasion, seamed daft to have one worth so much. I still prefer HDD music after all.
I’m not one to keep kit long anyhow but this must be a record, even for me.


PS loving the new Kit, the BM/ATC combo rocks.

Joe P
20-12-09, 06:14 AM
Raj,

I prefer to be at the trailing edge of technology, thought and awareness of other people's systems. The cutting edge requires far too much cerebral processing power for someone with such shockingly limited intelligence as myself.

Anyway, I was just a bit confused to see a different equipment list in your tagline since you were happy with the previous system.

Joe

ClaraBannister
20-12-09, 06:53 AM
I know the discussion is about the implications of being perceived as an audiophile, rather than the etymology of the word. It strikes me, though, that it's one of those words of mixed race, part Latin and part Greek, like television. Mind you, the Germans, usually masters of precision and logic, seem to have abandoned Fernsehen in favour of TV, pronounced tay-fow. Anyway, what we need is a more precise term derived from one or the other language, or our own excellent Germanic tongue. How about "audio amateur" or "euphonophile?"

dave
20-12-09, 06:58 AM
So just give them an additional word to build paranoia and conspiracies around? ;-)

Cereal Killer
20-12-09, 07:01 AM
No 'phile' please. Any person outside this interest immediately associates it with the word ‘Pedo’

ClaraBannister
20-12-09, 07:05 AM
When I was in the States, I used to read various magazines in which the term "hi-fi buff" seemed to be the favourite. I never really liked that.

mmterror
20-12-09, 07:06 AM
Old, fat and bald.

Pretty much this. Add in a collection of maybe 20 CDs that sound stunning due to hifi being totally tuned to those particular disks.

If he has a wife, she hates him.

Cereal Killer
20-12-09, 07:08 AM
I call myself a music collector. And i have decent kit as help me enjoy it more. mmterror, All my music sounds great to me :D

dave
20-12-09, 07:10 AM
When I was in the States, I used to read various magazines in which the term "hi-fi buff" seemed to be the favourite. I never really liked that.

Buff: More heels, pearls and turkey dinners but with Old Spice, a pipe and Cadillacs with fins thrown into the mix. I smell tubes warming up though which is always a good thing.

Cereal Killer
20-12-09, 09:13 AM
Buff: More heels, pearls and turkey dinners but with Old Spice, a pipe and Cadillacs with fins thrown into the mix. I smell tubes warming up though which is always a good thing.

i assume these extras are for you evening wardrobe dave?

Fox
20-12-09, 09:21 AM
the term "hi-fi buff" seemed to be the favourite. I never really liked that.

no, Old, fat and bald... and naked!

dave
20-12-09, 09:23 AM
i assume these extras are for you evening wardrobe dave?

nahhh...i prefer strappy sandals for evening wear.

Joe Hutch
20-12-09, 09:23 AM
Pretty much this. Add in a collection of maybe 20 CDs that sound stunning due to hifi being totally tuned to those particular disks.

All 20 are 'Dark Side of the Moon'.

Cereal Killer
20-12-09, 09:33 AM
Which is where they should remain

Fox
20-12-09, 09:35 AM
I'm ok with Audiophile. I did get into a spot of bother once when I said I was a vinyl fan to a person who had an actual realio-trulio vinyl fetish... that got interesting and a bit creepy.

hughjampton
20-12-09, 09:42 AM
I've had a couple of boats is my time, and I am careful not to describe myself as a water sport enthusiast.

DevillEars
20-12-09, 09:59 AM
Audiophiliac?

;)

Joe Hutch
20-12-09, 10:19 AM
Audiomaniac?

Cereal Killer
20-12-09, 10:56 AM
Theres two types now, one who sniffs record covers, and the other, who sniffs silicon when their amp has a melt down.

ClaraBannister
20-12-09, 10:58 AM
Ah, the good old days, with the aroma of paxolin, mica and shellac. And calcium carbide when you broke a valve. Sheer nose-talgia.

dougmon
20-12-09, 11:46 AM
Pretty much this. Add in a collection of maybe 20 CDs that sound stunning due to hifi being totally tuned to those particular disks.

I got a laugh out of this.

And it reminded me of an experience I had in a stereo store. The owner was demoing an amp/speaker combo that was _very_ expensive. I was not enjoying it, as it was making the CD I was listening to sound _very_ bad (Bob Marley & The Wailers). The owner said "But you really should hear it on female vocals. Let me go get some." At that point I cut the demo short. I don't have anything against female vocals -- in fact I had several CDs with me that featured female vocals. But I do have something against systems that do only one thing well.

Also, I had a feeling that when the guy demoing the equipment said "female vocals" he meant "Diana Krall, Patricia Barber, and their many imitators." He would probably not have included the Patti Smith CD I had brought along.

Jack Barriere
22-12-09, 02:04 AM
Audiophile
1: Any person who has a deep affection or appreciation for audio or sound quality.
2: A connoisseur of audio. Common phrase, "audiophile-grade" meaning higher-end components capable of meeting an audiophile’s expectations.

Cereal Killer
22-12-09, 02:12 AM
Audiophile
1: Any person who has a deep affection or appreciation for audio or sound quality.
2: A connoisseur of audio. Common phrase, "audiophile-grade" meaning higher-end components capable of meeting an audiophile’s expectations.

Which are?

Jack Barriere
22-12-09, 02:19 AM
Which are?

Linn, Naim, Rega, Krell, Densen, Spendor, Wilson, Audio Research, SME,.............................................. .................................

Jack Barriere
22-12-09, 02:26 AM
no, Old, fat and bald... and naked!

and penny less

Cereal Killer
22-12-09, 02:29 AM
Audiophile
1: Any person who has a deep affection or appreciation for audio or sound quality.
2: A connoisseur of audio. Common phrase, "audiophile-grade" meaning higher-end components capable of meeting an audiophile’s expectations.

Which are?

No, that not waht i mean, not from the manufacturers but from the experience

Steven Toy
21-01-13, 03:58 AM
Audiophile does not carry the same stigma in the French language as it does in English. Unlike in French, all words in English that carry the ~ophile suffix carry with it a negative connotation.

In French, the suffix means simply to like something. In English it means to like something a bit too much or in a perverse way.

sideshowbob
21-01-13, 04:00 AM
all words in English that carry the ~ophile suffix carry with it a negative connotation.

Nonsense. It has exactly the same connotation in English as it does in French.

Mike Reed
21-01-13, 04:11 AM
Audiophile does not carry the same stigma in the French language as it does in English. Unlike in French, all words in English that carry the ~ophile suffix carry with it a negative connotation.

In French, the suffix means simply to like something. In English it means to like something a bit too much or in a perverse way.


Agree with Sideshowbob; Francophile is still opposite to Francophobe; one likes and t'other doesn't.

I rather think that the word 'paedophile', which has been bandied around a lot of late, is to blame for any negative connotations. Probably an inapt name for child abusers.

The Greek suffix (= fondness or loving) is unchanged in implication AFAIK

Steven Toy
21-01-13, 04:32 AM
Unfortunately the English are generally less aware of the etymology of the word ~phile suffix and its meaning in isolation and are often equally unaware that it has ~phobe as its opposite in meaning.

In English we seem to associate ~phile with a particular prefix that also serves to change slightly its meaning and load it with perverse connotations.

I stand by what I wrote above.

Audiophile does sound like something nobody wants to own up to being. ~phile in the context and juxtaposed with audio implies some kind of obsession, perhaps at the exclusion of its original intended purpose, hence the straw man that audiophiles are not music lovers.

An English hi-fi brand would not carry the word 'Audiophile,' yet in France....

sideshowbob
21-01-13, 04:34 AM
It's not a question of etymology, it's a question of meaning. In English, the -phile suffix indicates approval. So, bibliophile, for example, means a lover of books, with no implication whatsoever of anything negative. The same is true in French. Whereas a bibliophobe is the opposite, exactly as in French.

You may stand by what you wrote, but it's drivel. There is no negative connotation in most uses of -phile in English.

Steven Toy
21-01-13, 04:42 AM
.http://www.kapraudio.com/tarifs/audiophile-technologie-2012s

darrylfunk
21-01-13, 04:43 AM
It's not a question of etymology, it's a question of meaning. In English, the -phile suffix indicates approval. So, bibliophile, for example, means a lover of books, with no implication whatsoever of anything negative. The same is true in French. Whereas a bibliophobe is the opposite, exactly as in French.

You may stand by what you wrote, but it's drivel. There is no negative connotation in most uses of -phile in English.

waiting for the comeback? more nonsense?

Steven Toy
21-01-13, 04:46 AM
It's not a question of etymology, it's a question of meaning. In English, the -phile suffix indicates approval. So, bibliophile, for example, means a lover of books, with no implication whatsoever of anything negative. The same is true in French. Whereas a bibliophobe is the opposite, exactly as in French.

You may stand by what you wrote, but it's drivel. There is no negative connotation in most uses of -phile in English.

You are applying a prescriptive dictionary interpretation of meaning. I am applying a more descriptive linguistic approach.

sideshowbob
21-01-13, 04:47 AM
But your approach is leading you to a completely false conclusion. So maybe it's the wrong approach.

sideshowbob
21-01-13, 04:54 AM
I rather think that the word 'paedophile', which has been bandied around a lot of late, is to blame for any negative connotations.

I think this is probably right. Of course, this word has exactly the same negative connotations in French as well.

-phile is love or like of something, whatever it is suffixed to. Not all loves and likes are socially acceptable, so, inevitably, some -philes are reviled. But the suffix itself does not carry any negative suggestion.

Steven Toy
21-01-13, 04:58 AM
I think this is probably right. Of course, this word has exactly the same negative connotations in French as well.

-phile is love or like of something, whatever it is suffixed to. Not all loves and likes are socially acceptable, so, inevitably, some -philes are reviled. But the suffix itself does not carry any negative suggestion.

Do those negative connotations derived from 'paedophile' spread over into other words with the ~phile suffix equally or less in French?

sideshowbob
21-01-13, 05:00 AM
Equally. Unless either the French or the English have more socially unacceptable -phile behaviours, which seems unlikely. Necrophilia, gerontophilia, paedophilia, etc, none of these are treated differently by the majority in either country, I suspect. I can't think of a single -philia that is approved of in the UK but not in France, or vice versa, apart from a few culinary differences.

Steven Toy
21-01-13, 05:03 AM
Equally. Unless either the French or the English have more socially unacceptable -phile behaviours, which seems unlikely. Necrophilia, gerontophilia, paedophilia, etc, none of these are treated differently by the majority in either country, I suspect.

This is the exact point on which we differ. Fair enough.

sideshowbob
21-01-13, 05:06 AM
Audiophile does sound like something nobody wants to own up to being. ~phile in the context and juxtaposed with audio implies some kind of obsession, perhaps at the exclusion of its original intended purpose.

I think this is an example of mauvaise foi.

Steven Toy
21-01-13, 05:14 AM
I think this is an example of mauvaise foi.

To clarify: original intended purpose being to enjoy listening to recorded music not the original meaning of the suffix.

paul auster
21-01-13, 05:16 AM
If you told a Sun reader you were one he'd probably try to kick your head in.

Amongst many publications I read the sun on line , which makes me a sun reader .

Funny thing is I abhor violence and would bet a considerable amount of money I am more intelligent than you . One really shouldn’t be so lazy with their use of language . :D

sideshowbob
21-01-13, 05:17 AM
I don't think there's any question that audiophilia is almost always a barrier to listening to music, because most of the concerns of audiophilia are inimical to understanding the meaning of music. Which is not to say audiophiles can't be music lovers, but is to say, insofar as they think about music in audiophile terms, audiophiles are not really listening to music, but to sound. Quite hard to explain what I mean, but I had a eureka moment when I ceased to think like an audiophile and returned to my pre-audiophile ways, and most other people I know who have had periods mucking about with hi-fi are the same. Listening to music when you are an audiophile simply isn't much fun.

Steven Toy
21-01-13, 05:30 AM
I don't think there's any question that audiophilia is almost always a barrier to listening to music, because most of the concerns of audiophilia are inimical to understanding the meaning of music. Which is not to say audiophiles can't be music lovers, but is to say, insofar as they think about music in audiophile terms, audiophiles are not really listening to music, but to sound. Quite hard to explain what I mean, but I had a eureka moment when I ceased to think like an audiophile and returned to my pre-audiophile ways, and most other people I know who have had periods mucking about with hi-fi are the same. Listening to music when you are an audiophile simply isn't much fun.

It depends how you approach it. If you remain in analytical mode regarding the sound, I would tend to agree. If, however, you focus your attention on the music and allow yourself to respond emotionally to it, I would disagree.

We can flit between different planes of consciousness: music, system, interplay between the two, music and for a fleeting moment whether or not the system facilitates a better emotional connection with the music, whether we are spending more or less time listening to music and whether or not our musical horizons have been broadened.

A successful audiophile reconciles the two nicely and wants to listen to every album going under the sun in their entirety. Well, almost...

darrylfunk
21-01-13, 05:36 AM
the subconscious mind works like a tape recorder....it replays so this means that it can replay good programming or bad programming....the conscious mind is only openly working about 5% of the day....the unconscious mind is far, far more powerful.

Steven Toy
21-01-13, 05:41 AM
To clarify: consciousness in this instance is where we focus our attention. This is in a constant state of flux just as the eyes never keep completely still.

darrylfunk
21-01-13, 05:42 AM
most 'focus' is controlled by the unconscious.

Peter Stockwell
21-01-13, 05:46 AM
Sur les grandes lignes, I agree with Steve's view. Just the same, over here, where the cheese stinks, the more usual term is "Mélomane".

I regularly refer to myself as an audiophool.

paul auster
21-01-13, 05:51 AM
the subconscious mind works like a tape recorder....it replays so this means that it can replay good programming or bad programming....the conscious mind is only openly working about 5% of the day....the unconscious mind is far, far more powerful.


Eh !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!

Brian
21-01-13, 05:54 AM
I don't think there's any question that audiophilia is almost always a barrier to listening to music, because most of the concerns of audiophilia are inimical to understanding the meaning of music. Which is not to say audiophiles can't be music lovers, but is to say, insofar as they think about music in audiophile terms, audiophiles are not really listening to music, but to sound. Quite hard to explain what I mean, but I had a eureka moment when I ceased to think like an audiophile and returned to my pre-audiophile ways, and most other people I know who have had periods mucking about with hi-fi are the same. Listening to music when you are an audiophile simply isn't much fun.

Ian,

That's an interesting take on audiophile.

I referenced the wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audiophile) definition the other day after the word "audiophile" was once again bandied around in an insulting manner.
"An audiophile is a person enthusiastic about high-fidelity sound reproduction"

The Oxford (http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/audiophile) dictionary entry says,

audiophile
" noun
informal

a hi-fi enthusiast: it puts professional studio sound within the reach of the audiophile.

I've seen other definitions that are broadly the same and plenty of articles indicating an audiophile is someone who has a high level of interest in enjoying recorded music, such as this article: It's all about what seems like a simple concept: Finding a way to listen to recorded music so that it sounds as real as possible. (http://www.questia.com/library/1G1-220257679/expo-to-be-audiophile-dream-show-are-you-the-type)

In this context and given other sources, "sound reproduction" is the same as "music reproduction", hence most pfm members are audiophiles under that definition and there's nothing wrong with that.

Are you saying the general definition of the word "audiophile" is incorrect?

I've only recently noticed how objectivists are using the word as a means of insulting other members without breaking the AUP. It's true I don't bother too much with labels, nor have I bought a hifi magazine in around 15 years and for years before that only for the diy supplement, so it could have been going on for years and I just haven't noticed a gradual change in meaning of the word.

darrylfunk
21-01-13, 05:59 AM
Ian,

That's an interesting take on audiophile.

I referenced the wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audiophile) definition the other day after the word "audiophile" was once again bandied around in an insulting manner.
"An audiophile is a person enthusiastic about high-fidelity sound reproduction"

The Oxford (http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/audiophile) dictionary entry says,

audiophile
" noun
informal

a hi-fi enthusiast: it puts professional studio sound within the reach of the audiophile.

I've seen other definitions that are broadly the same and plenty of articles indicating an audiophile is someone who has a high level of interest in enjoying recorded music, such as this article: It's all about what seems like a simple concept: Finding a way to listen to recorded music so that it sounds as real as possible. (http://www.questia.com/library/1G1-220257679/expo-to-be-audiophile-dream-show-are-you-the-type)


I've only recently noticed how objectivists are using the word as a means of insulting other members without breaking the AUP. It's true I don't bother too much with labels, nor have I bought a hifi magazine in around 15 years and for years before that only for the diy supplement, so it could have been going on for years and I just haven't noticed a gradual change in meaning of the word.

the comedic insult is audiophools....just so you know the difference.
don't believe there is a 'serious' insult....but some do have major chips on their shoulders...but that's probably paranoia.

is that why you are using objectivist as an insult?

tones
21-01-13, 06:01 AM
I don't think there's any question that audiophilia is almost always a barrier to listening to music, because most of the concerns of audiophilia are inimical to understanding the meaning of music. Which is not to say audiophiles can't be music lovers, but is to say, insofar as they think about music in audiophile terms, audiophiles are not really listening to music, but to sound. Quite hard to explain what I mean, but I had a eureka moment when I ceased to think like an audiophile and returned to my pre-audiophile ways, and most other people I know who have had periods mucking about with hi-fi are the same. Listening to music when you are an audiophile simply isn't much fun.

I think that's spot-on, Ian, For audiophiles, the primary object appears to be perfect reproduction as a purely technical exercise, as opposed to a musical one. Indeed, sometimes the desire appears to be reproduction that is much better than you can hear in a live venue.

As you say, the technical reproduction and the enjoyment of music are not mutually exclusive. However, I get the feeling that, in many cases, it's like Flanders and Swann's

But I never did care for music much!
It's the hi-fee-del-i-tee!

Like yourself, I got over that long ago, gave up upgrading and even sidegrading as pointless and now replace something only when it breaks down. (You'll be pleased to know that my last upgrades, your Meridian 588 and EAR 834, are both giving sterling service).

GTM
21-01-13, 06:12 AM
Twenty five-thirty years ago+ I'd say it meant a discerning music lover looking for or owning a system to further their love of music, make the experience more enjoyable.



Oh I don't know... think that might have been an "internal" view. As far as I can see it's always meant crazy person that is prepared to spend stupid amounts of money on a system that sounds worse (cos it aint got no kickin bass or crisp treble init).

Brian
21-01-13, 06:16 AM
the comedic insult is audiophools....just so you know the difference.
don't believe there is a 'serious' insult....but some do have major chips on their shoulders...but that's probably paranoia.

I think you shouldn't be insulting people at all darryl and I seriously doubt I'm the only member who has a major chip, or is suffering paranoia.

I'll leave this thread now because although I wanted to ask Ian something I really don't want to dragged into an argument with you so I'll disappear gracefully. I've avoided argument for a long time now and I'm not about to be dragged in again. It's pointless.

is that why you are using objectivist as an insult?
I'm not, as I'm sure you know.

darrylfunk
21-01-13, 06:19 AM
whatever brian....what a martyr to subjectivism you are.

Robert
21-01-13, 06:21 AM
Traditional meaning:

au•di•o•phile

Pronunciation: (ô'dē-u-fīl"), [key]
—n.
a person who is especially interested in high-fidelity sound reproduction.

Random House Unabridged Dictionary, Copyright © 1997, by Random House, Inc.

Current meaning:

au•di•o•phile

Pronunciation: (ô'dē-u-fīl"), [key]
—n.
a person who is especially interested in the trivial aspects of sound reproduction.
The audiophile can usually be identified through the display of neurotic and irrational tendencies.

Holt Unabridged Dictionary, Copyright © 2013, by Happy House, Inc.

Putting the serious hat on for a moment, Ian is right.

GTM
21-01-13, 06:26 AM
Traditional meaning:



Current meaning:



Putting the serious hat on for a moment, Ian is right.

I tend to prefer more authoritative sources:


audiophile
Pronunciation: /ˈɔːdɪə(ʊ)fʌɪl/

Definition of audiophile
noun
informal

a hi-fi enthusiast: it puts professional studio sound within the reach of the audiophile


http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/audiophile?q=audiophile

Robert
21-01-13, 06:58 AM
Nice idea, if only it were true!

Have you ever visited a professional studio?
...and I mean a real one, not TdPs back yard ;)

Steven Toy
21-01-13, 06:59 AM
I think you shouldn't be insulting people at all darryl and I seriously doubt I'm the only member who has a major chip, or is suffering paranoia.

I'll leave this thread now because although I wanted to ask Ian something I really don't want to dragged into an argument with you so I'll disappear gracefully. I've avoided argument for a long time now and I'm not about to be dragged in again. It's pointless.


I'm not, as I'm sure you know.

Brian, please don't allow yourself to be driven away by the somewhat overbearing and combative presence of one individual.

Steven Toy
21-01-13, 07:01 AM
Traditional meaning:



Current meaning:



Putting the serious hat on for a moment, Ian is right.

Robert,

I'd rather like a copy of the Holt Unabridged Dictionary 2013. Is it available on Kindle?