View Full Version : Georgie boys maths not working out.


darrylfunk
18-01-11, 05:19 AM
inflation.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12214546

oh dear.... his plans don't seem to be running as smoothly as suggested with some economists saying that it may spiral out of control as it has been 50% higher month on month than the governments estimates and these figures are before v.a.t. gets factured in on this januarys figures to follow.

bad news for a recovery in many ways.

Mick P
18-01-11, 05:24 AM
That was all expected, you don't increase VAT by 2.5% and expect it to have no impact on inflation.

Also interest rates are soon expected to rise.

What you must remember is that the speed of the recovery comes second place to reducing the debt.

Live with it and stop moaning.

Mick

darrylfunk
18-01-11, 05:30 AM
mick,
those figures are upto december you dick head..... v.a.t. is not factured as it started in january!!!

none of these are expected by georgie boy, he has got his maths wrong......

Mick P
18-01-11, 05:34 AM
mick,
those figures are upto december you dick head..... v.a.t. is not factured as it started in january!!!

none of these are expected by georgie boy, he has got his maths wrong......

Darryl

Why are you so stroppy, inflation is tipped to go up to 6%. Also oil and food prices all contribute. It is no big deal.

Mick

Anex
18-01-11, 05:37 AM
What you must remember is that the speed of the recovery comes second place to reducing the debt.



The cart and horse are meant to go the other way round Mick.

Mick P
18-01-11, 05:41 AM
Annex

Sorry not so. The risk of a double dip was something we (the Tories) were prepared to live with.

Mick

pil
18-01-11, 05:43 AM
Don't think it will help the thread much but it has to be said osbourne is a twat of the highest order...

Tony L
18-01-11, 05:43 AM
Sorry not so. The risk of a double dip was something we (the Tories) were prepared to live with.


Then you (the Tories) are f***ing idiots.

Tony.

Mick P
18-01-11, 05:44 AM
Then you (the Tories) are f***ing idiots.

Tony.

Tony

If that is your opinion then so be it.

Mick

PS why are you all so bad tempered today

stevec67
18-01-11, 05:45 AM
Annex

Sorry not so. The risk of a double dip was something we (the Tories) were prepared to live with.

Mick
I think you mean: " a double dip was something we (the Tories) were prepared to cause."

ultrawomble
18-01-11, 05:47 AM
It is no big deal.

Well, it is really given that benefits are linked to CPI. If that goes up, then so does the drain on the tax-payer. I wonder if Gideon factored that into his budget?

As it is, with RPI at 4.8%, the coming 4.6% increase in the state pension in April is already negated.

Darmok
18-01-11, 05:48 AM
Then you (the Tories) are f***ing idiots.

Tony.

^ Yes!!

I look forward to seeing
them suffer the CQ's.

The ones that voted for
them that is.

Dave and George are
nicely insulated from
the ravages of a rise
in inflation.

Selfish Pigs as always.

Mick P
18-01-11, 05:50 AM
I think you mean: " a double dip was something we (the Tories) were prepared to cause."

Yes there is some truth in that.

Mick

Tony L
18-01-11, 05:52 AM
PS why are you all so bad tempered today

Not bad tempered at all, just responding in a perfectly reasonable manner to one of the most stupid posts I've ever read on this forum. If you'd prefer I'll simply question it: When did this become Tory policy? I've read the manifesto and there is certainly nothing in there, nor was there in the TV debates, interviews etc. Does your Tory councillor son stand by this policy? Is he happy for a situation where many in the Swindon constituency find their businesses going under and their homes repossessed? Did he point out in his campaign that this was something all Tories "were prepared to live with"?

Tony.

muzzer
18-01-11, 05:56 AM
I wonder if I will get a 5% pay rise to cover it?

ian r
18-01-11, 05:56 AM
PS why are you all so bad tempered today

I heard that Monday is officially the glummest monday of the year (Radio 4 someting or other yesterday)

and then there is your no am I not my brothers keeper approach to factor on top of yesterdays glumness

matt j
18-01-11, 05:57 AM
I wonder if I will get a 5% pay rise to cover it?

Only if you work in investment banking in the city.

Mick P
18-01-11, 05:59 AM
Not bad tempered at all, just responding in a perfectly reasonable manner to one of the most stupid posts I've ever read on this forum. If you'd prefer I'll simply question it - when did this become Tory policy? I've read the manifesto and there is certainly nothing in there, nor was there in the TV debates, interviews etc. Does your Tory councillor son stand by this policy? Is he happy for a situation where many in the Swindon constituency find their businesses going under and their homes repossessed? Did he point out in his campaign that this was something all Tories "were prepared to live with"?

Tony.

Tony calling someone a f*****g idiot is what I would call bad tempered.

If you think what I said is stupid, then fine. We shall agree to differ. Nothing to get emotional over.

Regards

Mick

Tony L
18-01-11, 06:02 AM
I take it that you'd prefer I didn't question it... ;)

Tony.

jirka
18-01-11, 06:04 AM
That was all expected, you don't increase VAT by 2.5% and expect it to have no impact on inflation.

Also interest rates are soon expected to rise.

What you must remember is that the speed of the recovery comes second place to reducing the debt.

Live with it and stop moaning.

Mick

Whats soon 3,6,9.12 ?

Mick P
18-01-11, 06:06 AM
I take it that you'd prefer I didn't question it...

Tony.

Tony

Question it all you want and I will answer and vice versa, but you can't call someone a f*****g idiot and expect them to blow kisses at you.

Regards

Mick

Darmok
18-01-11, 06:12 AM
^ It's just TL being
his honest self as per
usual.

Saying what most of
us think you are imo.

:)

whatsnext
18-01-11, 06:12 AM
Tony

Question it all you want and I will answer and vice versa, but you can't call someone a f*****g idiot and expect them to blow kisses at you.

Regards

Mick

To quote a frequent poster on PFM stop moaning about other people, preaching to them and like am doing here telling them what to do. Said poster also advocates addressing the topic not the poster.

You are a laugh quite often

darrylfunk
18-01-11, 06:14 AM
mick,
you and your ilk are the ones coming out with the retarded policies!!!

what do you expect people to think?
they are losing control of the economy and they have only been in power a short while.

they even tried to take credit for the out going labour parties economic measures at the beginning, that looked like they were leading us out of the threat of a double dip but now look at what the tories ill thought out policies are doing.

Mick P
18-01-11, 06:15 AM
To quote a frequent poster on PFM stop moaning about other people, preaching to them and like am doing here telling them what to do. Said poster also advocates addressing the topic not the poster.

You are a laugh quite often

whatsnext

And once again you post about me and not the topic.

Mick

Darmok
18-01-11, 06:15 AM
To quote a frequent poster on PFM stop moaning about other people, preaching to them and like am doing here telling them what to do. Said poster also advocates addressing the topic not the poster.

You are a laugh quite often

^ The village idiot!!

Mick P
18-01-11, 06:20 AM
mick,
you and your ilk are the ones coming out with the retarded policies!!!

what do you expect people to think?
they are losing control of the economy and they have only been in power a short while.

they even tried to take credit for the out going labour parties economic measures at the beginning, that looked like they were leading us out of the threat of a double dip but now look at what the tories ill thought out policies are doing.

Darryl

There was a lot of people in the Tory party (myself included) who wanted to lose the election. It was the ultimate poison chalice. The debt was not Nulabs fault but it has to be eradicated or our children will suffer. Whoever won the election had no option but to make cuts, that is a fact of life and yes Cameron will probably be toast in 2015.

Losing this election was the best thing for Labour because they will float on a wave of popularity.

Such is life.

Mick

Tony L
18-01-11, 06:20 AM
Lets get this back on topic. I stand by what I said - anyone who is prepared to head back into a double-dip is an idiot. They do not understand even the basics of economics. If this is "the Tories" then they are f***ing idiots. A double-dip would almost certainly trigger a further banking collapse and there is nothing left to bail out with now. Anyone but an idiot would grasp this.

Hope that clears it up.

Tony.

Mick P
18-01-11, 06:24 AM
Lets get this back on topic. I stand by what I said - anyone who is prepared to head back into a double-dip is an idiot. They do not understand even the basics of economics. If this is "the Tories" then they are f***ing idiots. A double-dip would almost certainly trigger a further banking collapse and there is nothing left to bail out with now. Anyone but an idiot would grasp this.

Hope that clears it up.

Tony.

Tony

A double dip is just the UK (not Europe) having negative growth for 2 quarters or more. It is not good but it is also not a disaster.

Regards

F*****g idiot

stevec67
18-01-11, 06:31 AM
Darryl

There was a lot of people in the Tory party (myself included) who wanted to lose the election. It was the ultimate poison chalice. The debt was not Nulabs fault but it has to be eradicated or our children will suffer. Whoever won the election had no option but to make cuts, that is a fact of life and yes Cameron will probably be toast in 2015.

Losing this election was the best thing for Labour because they will float on a wave of popularity.

Such is life.

Mick

Bloody hell, I agree with Mick, I may have to lie down for a while. Just occasionally Mick you talk some sense.;). Not all the time, please don't misunderstand me.:D

I think the debt was coming home to roost, Nulab could and should have mitigated it with legislation but it was going to be hugely difficult and unpopular. I think a good deal of financial pain was (and is still) inevitable, the only debate is who's going to cop for it and how much.

DarrenW
18-01-11, 06:32 AM
perhaps any bailing out could be done by the senior bank staff - they seem to be getting the odd welcome brown envelope in this round of bonuses.

This is (imho) fair enough as folks like Bob D have worked hard and deserve the 8 million he is getting this year

if you are sitting there with lots of capital earning almost zero interest rates, no mortgage to pay and a decent income then its pribably quite fun to ride the double dipper. If the stock market crashes then its a good time to scoop up some low priced shares for selling later when things recover

come on folks, stop whinging at mick, its all good....

NeilK
18-01-11, 06:33 AM
There was a lot of people in the Tory party (myself included) who wanted to lose the election. It was the ultimate poison chalice. The debt was not Nulabs fault but it has to be eradicated or our children will suffer. Whoever won the election had no option but to make cuts, that is a fact of life and yes Cameron will probably be toast in 2015.

Losing this election was the best thing for Labour because they will float on a wave of popularity.

Such is life.

Mick

Absolutely, Mick, you are spot-on there. Unless in 3/4 years time the initial hard debt control measures are forgotten as we start recovering and, of course, the coalition has not fallen apart before then.

There have been vociferous right/left arguments for a long time in politics, especially in times of economic crisis, but what I don't hear now from the Labour Party or their supporters (I'd rather not call them "the left") is much in the way of cohesive alternatives - lots of "anti Tory" rhetoric/ much criticism however. I find it interesting that an alternative strategy is not forthcoming.
If there has been then I'd like someone to enlighten me as to what it is.

Richard Nichola
18-01-11, 06:35 AM
I think less "double dip would be tolerated" and more of "we'll scale back the mass government redundancy plans if things look to be turning to real shite."

Inflation rising reduces down the deficit, so I suspect that high inflation is tolerated. We have after all been pushing down our currency with very low interest rates, so inflation in the cost of imported goods is pretty much a given.

matthewr
18-01-11, 07:10 AM
What you must remember is that the speed of the recovery comes second place to reducing the debt.

This makes no sense because the fastest way to fix the debt is to grow the economy.

Why are you so stroppy, inflation is tipped to go up to 6%. Also oil and food prices all contribute.

From an economic point of view commodities (like oil and food) and taxes (like VAT) are best ignored. CPI is of interest to normal people as it best indicates the effect on you, but it's not terribly informative with regard to the economy.

And if you look at CPIY (CPI w/out indirect taxes) core inflation is dangerously low (about 2% IIRC) and trending down which why cutting spending now is seriously risky and quite the opposite of the financial prudence it is pitched as and why the banks probably won't raise rates.

Patrick Dixon
18-01-11, 07:18 AM
The problem is that the BoE is tasked with keeping inflation at 2% and it only has one tool with which to achieve it (interest rates). Street interest rates have long since parted from the BoE's interest rate, so their lever has got even more elastic.

The problem is that some members and economists appear to be getting twitchy about the continued 3%+ inflation rate, and there's talk of increasing the BoE rate if it doesn't show signs of improvement. IMV that would be a bit of a disaster.

The BoE really needs to be basing its interest rate policy on things like house price inflation and increases in non-government borrowing - and if it had been, it would have raised them when things got overheated and not after the big crash. It definitely wouldn't be dreaming of raising them now.

Darmok
18-01-11, 07:48 AM
As I see it, the bail
out only propped up
a load of over valued
property assets and
secured shareholder
shares.

Now poor people are
being screwed to pay
for the bailout.

The financial sector
needs to put it back
together and sort it
out.

sean99
18-01-11, 08:01 AM
Only if you work in investment banking in the city.

No, they will get a 50% pay rise and the rest of us will get nothing. But on average workers in the UK will see their pay rise by 5% :(

pil
18-01-11, 08:16 AM
If i were clegg i would jump ship from the tories.

People aren't going forget all this for a long time.

mmterror
18-01-11, 09:11 AM
Hmmm might start stockpiling tins of beans. Could be paying 50,000,000 for each one in a years time.

Or maybe buy a wheelbarrow.

Still
18-01-11, 09:32 AM
Tony

<snip>

Regards

F*****g idiot

Some might criticise Mick for being a late developer, but at least he has finally developed some self awareness.

barrymidd
18-01-11, 09:41 AM
I think Tony showed a good deal of restraint with this comment.

Mick P
18-01-11, 10:35 AM
This makes no sense because the fastest way to fix the debt is to grow the economy.



From an economic point of view commodities (like oil and food) and taxes (like VAT) are best ignored. CPI is of interest to normal people as it best indicates the effect on you, but it's not terribly informative with regard to the economy.

And if you look at CPIY (CPI w/out indirect taxes) core inflation is dangerously low (about 2% IIRC) and trending down which why cutting spending now is seriously risky and quite the opposite of the financial prudence it is pitched as and why the banks probably won't raise rates.

Matthew

I wouldn't agree 100% with you.

Yes inflation does reduce the value of the debt but it also reduces our competitive edge in the markets which is even worse, therefore you have to look more long term.

I will stake my life that the BoE will let inflation ride for twelve months to let the VAT feed through and then take a judgement on whether to increase rates which they will have to do to curb inflation if it is still high.

We can expect higher energy and food costs, so I don't hold out much hope for rates being held down after this time next year.

Yes core demand is low and will remain low due to consumers being concerned about jobs. One silver lining is that personal debt is shrinking fast as people now realise the folly of living on credit.

Regards

Mick

Patrick Dixon
18-01-11, 10:42 AM
Yes inflation does reduce the value of the debt but it also reduces our competitive edge in the markets

Well actually it doesn't. Inflation suppresses the value of the currency and that's what's giving us an export boost - ie increasing our competitive edge. The problem with inflation is that it makes government borrowing more expensive.

Mick P
18-01-11, 10:46 AM
Well actually it doesn't. Inflation suppresses the value of the currency and that's what's giving us an export boost - ie increasing our competitive edge. The problem with inflation is that it makes government borrowing more expensive.

Patrick

The reason for our export boost is the relatively weak pound. Inflation will increase our out of the factory gate prices and we will only be able to retain our global competitiveness by allowing the Pound to sink further.

Regards

Mick

matthewr
18-01-11, 10:56 AM
I think I have finally realised, Mick, that the reason for your peculair posting style is that the you don't actually read the posts you are replying to.

Anex
18-01-11, 11:10 AM
Mick did a funny.

Mick P
18-01-11, 11:43 AM
I think I have finally realised, Mick, that the reason for your peculair posting style is that the you don't actually read the posts you are replying to.

Matthew

You can level that accusation at almost everyone here.

Mick

cooky1257
18-01-11, 12:27 PM
Matthew

You can level that accusation at almost everyone here.

Mick

Nah we all read your posts Mick they reaffirm our humanity.

TheDecameron
18-01-11, 07:35 PM
Matthew

You can level that accusation at almost everyone here.

Mick

Mick if I didnt know you better I would call you bolshie.

kendo
19-01-11, 05:19 AM
Pinko Parry!:D

whatsnext
19-01-11, 07:17 AM
A quck search about George Osbourne on Wiki reveals that he has no significant fiscal training and certainly no qualifications in financial matters. I may be missing something but it looks like this man is far from being well versed in economics. He is very political though.

Tony L
19-01-11, 07:53 AM
A quck search about George Osbourne on Wiki reveals that he has no significant fiscal training and certainly no qualifications in financial matters. I may be missing something but it looks like this man is far from being well versed in economics.

This is not news! It became abundantly evident long before the election when, during the worst of the financial crisis / collapse, he was so clearly unable to string a coherent sentence together the press stopped even bothering to interview him and went straight to Darling or Cable. He is utterly clueless.

Tony.

Mick P
19-01-11, 08:00 AM
This is not news! It became abundantly evident long before the election when, during the worst of the financial crisis / collapse, he was so clearly unable to string a coherent sentence together the press stopped even bothering to interview him and went straight to Darling or Cable. He is utterly clueless.

Tony.

Tony

He is not thick, in fact according to my ex boss who has met with him, he is razor sharp.

You may recall I had to meet with several MPs myself, mainly during the mid nieties to early 2000s and not one of them could ever be described as thick.

The only one I did think was strange was claire Short.

Your old MP, the late Cyril Smith was a very cunning old man despite his buffon image. Also I wouldn't trust him an inch.

There is rarely a thick MP.

Regards

Mick

ultrawomble
19-01-11, 08:31 AM
There is rarely a thick MP.

That may well be true, but there are many ill-qualified for the jobs that they do. Most professions require a degree of competence in a particular trade, unfortunately ministerial appointments seemingly do not. Perhaps that's why the country is in its current predicament?

Tony L
19-01-11, 08:33 AM
That may well be true, but there are many ill-qualified for the jobs that they do. Most professions require a degree of competence in a particular trade, unfortunately ministerial appointments seemingly do not. Perhaps that's why the country is in its current predicament?

I guess it makes some sense putting a known tax-dodger in charge of taxation etc, though sadly he shows no sign of using his insider knowledge for the common good.

Tony.

Darmok
19-01-11, 09:28 AM
A quck search about George Osbourne on Wiki reveals that he has no significant fiscal training and certainly no qualifications in financial matters. I may be missing something but it looks like this man is far from being well versed in economics. He is very political though.

"Idi ilogical Idiot"

Much in the same vein
as Pathological parry!!

matthewr
19-01-11, 02:04 PM
A quck search about George Osbourne on Wiki reveals

As much as I despise the man he must be getting mightily sick of somebody somewhere spelling his name wrong at least several times every second.

See also Mark Hopkin (no s, like the Book of Revelation), she must also despair.

matt j
19-01-11, 02:12 PM
As much as I despise the man he must be getting mightily sick of somebody somewhere spelling his name wrong at least several times every second.

See also Mark Hopkin (no s, like the Book of Revelation), she must also despair.

Would spelling his name correctly making him better at maths?

fentontfox
19-01-11, 02:25 PM
I think the only maths of any relevance in modern politics is the lobbyists with the deepest pockets shape the policies of our elected representatives.

cooky1257
19-01-11, 02:34 PM
'There's rarely a thick MP'

I know one particular MP that is thick.

Seeker_UK
19-01-11, 02:40 PM
'There's rarely a thick MP'

I know one particular MP that is thick.

If it's not Jonathan Djanogly, then there's at least two. :D

Darmok
19-01-11, 02:50 PM
'There's rarely a thick MP'

I know one particular MP that is thick.

I agree, duplicitous
is a more accurate
description

whatsnext
19-01-11, 03:24 PM
'There's rarely a thick MP'

I know one particular MP that is thick.

But not clueless?

kendo
19-01-11, 04:23 PM
MP?.....MP?...........AAAAAH I GOT IT;)

cooky1257
19-01-11, 04:23 PM
But not clueless?

He's a tory MP, you decide.

canonman
20-01-11, 10:00 AM
Looks like Alan Johnson was arithmetically challenged too as he's resigned this afternoon.....to be replaced by someone called Balls....

Still
22-01-11, 06:34 AM
At 3.7% the Consumer Price Index in Britain is now higher than it is in Zimbabwe (3.2%).

Tony L
22-01-11, 07:26 AM
At 3.7% the Consumer Price Index in Britain is now higher than it is in Zimbabwe (3.2%).

Woohoo! We win at teh price indexez! I have a $5bn Zimbabwean bank note, I wonder how long until I have a 5bn UK note to hang alongside it?

Tony.

Pete the Feet
22-01-11, 01:12 PM
After doing the weekly shop at Morrisons don't tell me the CPI is a credible indicator of price. First we had the rate of inflation, then that got too high, so we had the lower RPI, as that was getting too high we then had the CPI.
They have just aligned the public sector pensions to the lower rate I wonder why.
It all started with the Tories readjusting the inflation rate and all parties are equally guilty in cooking the books.
How much has petrol, utilities and food gone up? A lot more than any of these meaningless governemental financial PI rates would have you believe.
Lets have a guess on what the new PI will be called when the Tories well and truly lead us over the edge and into the abyss.

matt j
22-01-11, 01:22 PM
The keeping-your-foot-on-the-throat-of-the-poor index? Or is that too honest for them?

I'm sure call-me-Dave will get some dodgy Murdoch owned Newspaper editor to come up with a more catchy name for it than the above though.

kendo
22-01-11, 03:16 PM
There is nothing more basic/needed than a loaf of bread. Price today in Tescosis for a half-decent granary loaf was 1.40. The same loaf last year was 0.95-1.05. Do yer sums folks:(

Seeker_UK
22-01-11, 03:26 PM
Just convince yourself that it's 'artisan' bread.

There, you go. 1.40 is a bargain now.

matt j
22-01-11, 03:35 PM
I'd like to think the current and future hardships will see many adopt cheaper, more traditional practices such as baking their own bread and growing their own veg etc, sure beats shovelling money into back pocket of the greedy bastards like Tesco and ASDA.

Then again what am I thinking, most will just carry on buying 3 microwave meals for the price of 2, as they were.