Harbeth P3ESR sounding boxed in?

[M@ver1ck]

My harbeth p3esrs sound pretty boxed in to me. They're pretty much as far away from the room boundaries as possible, and driven with rega/naim electronics.

The Kudos gear that I have, in contrast sounds awesome.

Any suggestions?

[JonR]

How new are your Harbeths? Perhaps they need running in.

[M@ver1ck]

20 hours on them.

[Oakwood]

What are they sat on?

High mass or low mass stands?

Richard

[M@ver1ck]

skylan stands filled with sand.

[Steven Toy]

Empty some of the sand out.

Come back when they have 100+ hours on them.

[DSJR]

The Kudos speakers I've heard have been rather "toppy" with loads of "HiFi" detail due to the high output from the tweeter. Some rooms, systems and ears prefer this kind of presentation and, if this is the case, no Harbeth will do, despite the sweetness and natural tone on acoustic instruments.

The recommendation for lightly loaded stands rather than heavyweight dreadnaughts is a good one I think.

One thing I should say is that the current Naim range seems to major on bass precision and "punch" rather than an "airy" treble. I'm not saying this is contributing at all, but it was interesting for me to hear how the Naim stuff sounds these days - rather gentler in the presence and treble regions than the hard-hitting CB and Olive range I remember from years gone by.

Hope you find you can get thre P3ESR's to work for you. I'm sure you'll have no difficulty at all in moving them on if they just don't "do it" for you. The Kudos models do seem to be better sorted than most of the livelier speakers out there and should make an excellent alternative if you need to change..

P.S. You did give a good listen to the P3ESR's before purchase didn't you? What did they sound like on the dem and what gear was used with them?

[ArtK]

Mine sound great. What size room are you in?

[darrylfunk]

play with positioning and toe in.

try this with some accapella music if you are looking for the most open, projected sound and then tweak with some nice walking bassline music to lock in the bass tunefulness....

[Pete the Feet]

You need to have an extended listening session with both over a number of days if possible. You may find that what first seems appealing may sound fatiguing or jarring after a couple of hours. Wait for the novelty whoah factor to wear off.
I had a similar experience with Shahinian Arc's which sounded awsome at first but soon became wearing.

[novak]

Harbeths can sound like that. I have the Monitor 30, and have owned the C7 and P3 too. I tried more detailed speakers but lost everything else in the midrange in comparison. What I found worked was to open up the Harbeths with brighter sounding cable - tellurium Q black, bought the Naim DAC and some good connections like the hiline. Not cheap though!

Also, the Harbeths sound more open without the covers.

I'd be interested in them for a second system if you want to shift them on, if they are in cherry or black.

[M@ver1ck]

Well, I had a quick listen to them before I bought them. Got a great deal, so I figured I could move them on with minimal loss. I'm still between systems, and currently have no amp for the p3esrs.

I'll either get the Brio-R for the P3ESR, or get the SuperUniti for the Kudos and move the NaitXS into the study with the P3ESR.

wait and see.

I'll remove some of the sand though. Even the guy who makes the speaker stands suggest kitty litter or rice instead of sand for harbeths in his stands.

[ryder]

Sensible advice here so far, especially DSJR's. The sound won't change much with burn-in, though the sand-filled Skylan stands can be a factor. Some folks reported a more open sound when the speakers are decoupled from the top plate of the Skylans. If not considering open low-mass stands, you may want to try decoupling the speakers from the stands apart from reducing the amount of fill in them.

I also concur with most folks here about putting more hours on the Harbeths. You will get to know the strengths of the Harbeth when you spend more time with the speakers. Initial listening impressions can be unimpressive as they may sound less open with *seemingly* reduced energy in the highs in comparison to more forward and bright speakers such as the Kudos.

If the P3ESR still sound shut-in after taking the above into consideration, perhaps the house sound of the Kudos suits you better.

Since you already have a Naim Nait XS, it may be more worthwhile to consider the Rega Brio-R instead of another Naim amp, either for the Kudos or Harbeth. Not too sure which amp you would prefer for the P3ESR though. I've not tried the Brio-R but I prefer a Naim amp over the Rega Elicit on the Harbeth. A matter of preference.

Good luck.

[ArtK]

Originally Posted by M@ver1ck

I'll remove some of the sand though. Even the guy who makes the speaker stands suggest kitty litter or rice instead of sand for harbeths in his stands.

When I talked to him the one exception to the substitution is the stand for the P3ESR. Do you have the 2 pillar or the single?

[JCL]

Sounds like the music is trapped. What about drilling a few holes in the cabinet?