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  #31  
Old 04-12-16, 04:56 AM
Robert Robert is online now
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Originally Posted by Tony L View Post
The Falcon price is hugely annoying. I'm kicking myself for not buying a pair direct when they were on offer at 1250 I think. I'd love to have a nice pair of LS3/5As knocking about as it is one classic speaker I've never owned. I'm pretty close with my fully restored and rebuilt JR149s (Falcon B110s and T27s), but I'd love to spend time really comparing them. Very interested in the ProAc interpretation too, we need a proper infinite baffle mini-monitor shoot-out as there are so many interesting ones at present. I've not even heard the Spendor S3/5R yet and that one is years old!
if you really want to scratch the LS3/5 itch then I think you have to land a pair.
I found the JR149 to sound very different (better) to the old BBC design. The common driver choice isn't really apparent in the sound IMO.

Never liked the 3/5a but my last real extended listen (several months) was over a decade ago to some well kept Spendors. I'm almost tempted to buy some Falcons in the new year out of curiosity as my tastes in loudspeakers have changed in recent years. Can always flip them for minimal loss if need be.

The Proac wouldn't interest me unfortunately. Looks wrong. Looks like a budget speakers in a posh cabinet. Stand-off grilles always look like an afterthought IMO!
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  #32  
Old 04-12-16, 05:45 AM
Tony L Tony L is offline
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Originally Posted by Robert View Post
if you really want to scratch the LS3/5 itch then I think you have to land a pair.
I found the JR149 to sound very different (better) to the old BBC design. The common driver choice isn't really apparent in the sound IMO.
I heard some Falcon LS3/5As at Cranage last year and they were just staggeringly good on classical. Sugden class A upstream and some fancy stand sub units, which I wasn't entirely convinced by. The thing that knocked me out was the string sound on some obscure Japanese SACD of Saint Saens Organ Concerto (2nd movement), just wonderful. May well be the best strings I've ever heard from a hi-fi system. Annoyingly I've had no luck tracking down the SACD, and I've now forgotten what it was! They later stuck a late period Donald Byrd soul-jazz CD on and that worked a lot less well for me, though I have a feeling it was the subs tripping up, not the LS3/5As.

I have a feeling that I've dialed into the differences between the LS3/5A and 149, different positioning requirements aside. The former goes all out for mid-band tonality and has a truly beautiful, neutral and open mid, the 149 retains rather more dynamic punch and grip, goes deeper, but does so at the expense of the tiniest hint of B110 upper mid 'bite' (which you can largely tune out with a nice tube amp IME). The 149 is way, way closer to an LS3/5A than a Kan, but it is on that path. I have a feeling that if your musical taste is wide (as mine is) the 149 is the best of the three as it can do classical, jazz, rock, electronica, even reggae pretty damn well, wheras the 3/5A doesn't seem that great outside classical and acoustic music (where it is stunning), and the Kan needs to avoid all that and stick to rock, pop etc. The 149s can pull that Quad ESL imaging trick off too where they just seem to be in the room but have nothing to do with the music, you can look right at them and no music is coming from them, it is all above, below, behind, in front etc. I get the impression the 3/5As can too, but I've not had a pair at home to compare. I do think the 149 cab is special though and I'm amazed no one has copied it.
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  #33  
Old 04-12-16, 06:51 AM
Robert Robert is online now
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Originally Posted by Tony L View Post
I heard some Falcon LS3/5As at Cranage last year and they were just staggeringly good on classical. Sugden class A upstream and some fancy stand sub units, which I wasn't entirely convinced by. The thing that knocked me out was the string sound on some obscure Japanese SACD of Saint Saens Organ Concerto (2nd movement), just wonderful. May well be the best strings I've ever heard from a hi-fi system. Annoyingly I've had no luck tracking down the SACD, and I've now forgotten what it was! They later stuck a late period Donald Byrd soul-jazz CD on and that worked a lot less well for me, though I have a feeling it was the subs tripping up, not the LS3/5As.

I have a feeling that I've dialed into the differences between the LS3/5A and 149, different positioning requirements aside. The former goes all out for mid-band tonality and has a truly beautiful, neutral and open mid, the 149 retains rather more dynamic punch and grip, goes deeper, but does so at the expense of the tiniest hint of B110 upper mid 'bite' (which you can largely tune out with a nice tube amp IME). The 149 is way, way closer to an LS3/5A than a Kan, but it is on that path. I have a feeling that if your musical taste is wide (as mine is) the 149 is the best of the three as it can do classical, jazz, rock, electronica, even reggae pretty damn well, wheras the 3/5A doesn't seem that great outside classical and acoustic music (where it is stunning), and the Kan needs to avoid all that and stick to rock, pop etc. The 149s can pull that Quad ESL imaging trick off too where they just seem to be in the room but have nothing to do with the music, you can look right at them and no music is coming from them, it is all above, below, behind, in front etc. I get the impression the 3/5As can too, but I've not had a pair at home to compare. I do think the 149 cab is special though and I'm amazed no one has copied it.
Yes I agree on the 149 being a bit more punchy, dynamic and with more bite. I found the 3/5a sounded squashed and sat-on, something I didn't detect on the 149.
But they were old Spendors (albeit in good condition) and a modern build might work better. Might take a punt, not that I need any more speakers!

The LS3/5 cabinet is interesting because to my mind it doesn't demonstrate BBC thin wall theory - because it's too small. The idea of a large, thin, damped panel works well because the panel resonance is below most of the critical vocal rage, and damped.
But the LS3/5 panels are far smaller than the BBC models originally built to the damped thin wall spec. The panel resonate is therefore much higher than on say, a 3/6. Small 9mm birch ply panels, edge clamped as on the 3/5 are in fact pretty stiff!
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  #34  
Old 04-12-16, 07:01 AM
Tony L Tony L is offline
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I have a feeling the key to the 3/5As cab is the screwed-on baffle, not the cabinet wall thickness. It will totally kill any tendency to ring like a bell, and it explains why LS3/5A geeks seem to prefer the prototypes which had a screwed-on back too. Also explains why Kan cabs ring a bit and 3/5 cabs don't. Fully glued cabs are just square bongos really!

PS You need to pop up sometime, I think you would love the 149s fully rebuilt with new drivers and fresh crossover caps. They are a special little speaker.
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  #35  
Old 04-12-16, 10:25 AM
Jodet Jodet is offline
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Originally Posted by Nick_G View Post
Oooh they are tempting. Well, at least they would be if I had the cash! But they would suit my listening set-up very well and are much more reasonably priced than the Falcon LS3/5a, for example. I bet they would sound good at the end of my JVC 1010 amp.

I wonder how they would compare to the KEF LS50s?
I own LS-50's and Proac 148's. If I had to guess I'd say the KEF's will be more dynamic, have more bass and play louder. The Proac's will image better and have a sweeter midrange and be smoother on top.

That's just a guess, of course.
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  #36  
Old 04-12-16, 11:47 AM
TimF TimF is online now
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Bryston has been carrying a Target line now for awhile, with several series, one of which is the MR series. It is a "new" R4 for the most part, FWIW. No idea on costs etc.....

The latest Tablette does look quite nice!
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  #37  
Old 04-12-16, 12:07 PM
Tony L Tony L is offline
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Originally Posted by TimF View Post
Bryston has been carrying a Target line now for awhile, with several series, one of which is the MR series. It is a "new" R4 for the most part, FWIW. No idea on costs etc.....
Just had a google and they certainly look like the R series relaunched. Great to see as I've yet to find a better stand for a ProAc, LS3/5A type speaker.

They won't be cheap though, my first pair of R4s bought new back in the late '90s to go under a pair of birds-eye maple Tablette 50 Sigs were about 350 IIRC. Always kicked myself for letting them go as a really good pair of stands is a useful thing to have knocking around if like me you are partial to mini-monitors. The Tabs were nice too, but just hated one room after a house move so had to go. I eventually found a second hand pair of R4s that, amazingly, the eBay seller was prepared to ship (they have their cartons, but they are over 20Kg each!). The 149s aren't a perfect fit on the top plate being cylindrical, but they look ok and sound great.
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  #38  
Old 06-12-16, 08:33 AM
eastone eastone is offline
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anyone have an idea of the frequency response of these?
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  #39  
Old 06-12-16, 09:33 AM
davidavdavid davidavdavid is offline
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Just wanted to get back to you all, I was reading an interesting article by Paul Barton of PSB Speakers (Canada) about designing speakers for different markets, in particular the difference between the UK and North America given the different construction and size of homes.

He echoed some of the comments made in this thread regarding the predilection in the UK for sealed box speakers and standmounts. I will try to find the article and post it, or failing that contact PSB directly for a reprint.
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  #40  
Old 06-12-16, 10:29 AM
Ptah Ptah is offline
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The Music Room write up says the 10s are optimised for use against a wall rather than free-standing, which puts them more in Kan than LS3/5a territory (as far as I remember the Kan originally used LS3 cabinets). Mr Tyler usually has a Nait XS at shows so Bristol in Feb should be fun!
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  #41  
Old 07-12-16, 11:10 AM
Cato Cato is offline
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Agreed - Proac and naim seem to go well together
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  #42  
Old 07-12-16, 11:21 AM
Martyn Miles Martyn Miles is offline
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I wonder if anyone on this Forum have heard the Celef LS8s, or even bought a pair.
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  #43  
Old 08-12-16, 07:34 AM
Cato Cato is offline
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Tone/Dorgay opines

http://www.tonepublications.com/revi...c-tablette-10/
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  #44  
Old 08-12-16, 10:00 AM
PerF PerF is offline
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Why on earth do they make them biwire ?
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  #45  
Old 08-12-16, 10:56 AM
Jodet Jodet is offline
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Originally Posted by PerF View Post
Why on earth do they make them biwire ?
Yeah, I wish that fad would die out altogether.
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