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  #16  
Old 13-02-17, 02:36 PM
Julf Julf is offline
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Originally Posted by johnhunt View Post
Mqa will get their revenue from tiny portions of streaming income. Particularly , at a first , from mostly dormant legacy libraries like the warners school of rock. I'd also be surprised if Tidal tried to increase fees as their upside is more members
So people who don't want MQA still end up subsidizing it?
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  #17  
Old 13-02-17, 02:42 PM
johnhunt johnhunt is offline
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dont really understand your point tbh.the Mqa revenue would likely only come from Mqa streams.
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  #18  
Old 13-02-17, 02:46 PM
sunbeamgls sunbeamgls is offline
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Might be worth reading the article without thinking about who wrote it and then reassess what it means rather than immediately resorting to banal mudslinging.
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  #19  
Old 13-02-17, 02:54 PM
johnhunt johnhunt is offline
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I have re read the article and it reads just as I described. Really struggling with the idea that Mqa can damage music. it might damage Linn of course
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  #20  
Old 13-02-17, 03:16 PM
kenniGT kenniGT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnhunt View Post
I have re read the article and it reads just as I described. Really struggling with the idea that Mqa can damage music. it might damage Linn of course
Well, if you will need to pay more for Tidal account or streamer/DAC it will damage... your budget.

One have to admit MQA is very intelligently designed product. Something like you eat cake and you have cake. You do not have to pay for it and you have it. But if you look closer it is a bit different story. It is intelligent product for Meridian, for others not so. If you are DAC producer you will need to pay for it and share bits of your design(!). Licencing will probably affect everyone who wants to have MQA certification on their product. At the end of the day, customer will need to cover this cost.
And if you want to use it for free like now on Tidal... you will only get small piece of cake, and if you like it and want more, you have to pay. You need hardware with MQA certification ($). This photo explains how it works:

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  #21  
Old 13-02-17, 03:57 PM
johnhunt johnhunt is offline
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[QUOTE=kenniGT;3042339]Well, if you will need to pay more for Tidal account or streamer/DAC it will damage... your budget.

One have to admit MQA is very intelligently designed product. Something like you eat cake and you have cake. You do not have to pay for it and you have it. But if you look closer it is a bit different story. It is intelligent product for Meridian, for others not so. If you are DAC producer you will need to pay for it and share bits of your design(!). Licencing will probably affect everyone who wants to have MQA certification on their product. At the end of the day, customer will need to cover this cost.
And if you want to use it for free like now on Tidal... you will only get small piece of cake, and if you like it and want more, you have to pay. You need hardware with MQA certification ($). This photo explains how it works:

[/QUOTE

- Tidal still 20
- dac Mqa inexpensive..i have one
-Mqa likely to be checking implemention re your comment on design
-licensing costs on dac guess work on your part and unlikely imv as Mqa revenue will come from software
- all that other cobblers about cake ..
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  #22  
Old 13-02-17, 04:10 PM
kenniGT kenniGT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnhunt View Post
-licensing costs on dac guess work on your part and unlikely imv as Mqa revenue will come from software
This is the very reason why I started the topic. I read on other forum, one streamer producer mentioned it might cost a bit to have hardware support and certification...
Have a look once again how many streamer producers support this format. 10? Well I could sign more if I have format like MQA in my pocket.

Tidal is indeed still 20
Your MQA dac - you do not know licencing cost, how much profit they take form producer.

btw.
I am thinking about mytek brooklyn for my second system

Last edited by kenniGT; 13-02-17 at 04:37 PM.
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  #23  
Old 13-02-17, 09:08 PM
davidsrsb davidsrsb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenniGT View Post
This photo explains how it works:

Misleading.
The undecoded MQA gives something between 14 and 16 bit at 48k, the LSBs are carrying the HF part and simulate noise.
The Tidal PC App appears to decode the MQA stream as well as hardware decoders, but not available for Linux based streamers
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  #24  
Old 14-02-17, 12:01 AM
radamel radamel is online now
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Originally Posted by davidsrsb View Post
The Tidal PC App appears to decode the MQA stream
Appears to decode? Could you please elaborate?
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  #25  
Old 14-02-17, 12:08 AM
Mr_Sukebe Mr_Sukebe is offline
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Some thoughts:
- audioqueste recently announced that their dragonfly dac will be updated via firmware. So clearly it doesn't require dedicated hardware
- bearing in mind the cost of the dragonfly, it's reasonable to assume that the licensing costs are not huge for the manufacturer
- how is this any different to Sony licensing said and BD, or Dolby and dts with a variety of audio formats? I assume you probably a BD player. Did you kick.off about licensing then?
- it's not that you're obliged to buy it. Happy with flac and cd, stick with them
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  #26  
Old 14-02-17, 12:36 AM
Werner Werner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radamel View Post
Appears to decode? Could you please elaborate?
When so configured the desktop version of Tidal does the first unfolding, and thus for a 48k input it outputs a 96k signal to the DAC. This is partially-decoded MQA, although in MQA newspeak this signal is named 'decoded'; the job left undone is named the 'render' job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Sukebe View Post
Some thoughts:
- audioqueste recently announced that their dragonfly dac will be updated via firmware. So clearly it doesn't require dedicated hardware
That is not correct. The Dragonflies lack the hardware to perform the first unfolding. What they will get in that firmware update is the functionality to act as a renderer, relying on the decoding (first unfolding) to be done in the system upstream (i.e. Tidal, or a Bluesound Node 2).
The rendering task so far seems to be upsampling with a choice of (leaky) filters, informed by subcodes in the decoded 96k signal. While the patents and some older MQA documentation foresees a second level of unfolding (of 48kHz to 96kHz information that was buried in the decoded 24kHz to 48kHz information, if you can follow), it is clear that a Dragonfly once more would lack the resources to do so.

Quote:
- bearing in mind the cost of the dragonfly, it's reasonable to assume that the licensing costs are not huge for the manufacturer
That is relative. It may be peanuts for some manufacturers, and totally insurmountable for the manufacturers of donationware open-source streamers.

Quote:
- how is this any different to Sony licensing said and BD, or Dolby and dts with a variety of audio formats? I assume you probably a BD player. Did you kick.off about licensing then?
The differences are that DVD, BD, ... were new and as such needed in order to progress. MQA is PCM. There is no need to replace PCM with PCM-reliant-on-something-at-the-end-of-the-chain. The MQA marketing wants you to believe the opposite.

Also, Dolby and DTS inclusion was the result of a standardisation action, with the industry sitting down and agreeing on using these formats for multichannel distribution. Plus, the decoders were public. Anyone can decode AC3 or DTS at home and then manipulate the output signals at wish.


Quote:
- it's not that you're obliged to buy it. Happy with flac and cd, stick with them
That is more or less correct. As long as some music providers don't start using MQA as the sole distribution format, be it CDs or downloads, tacitly or not. This scenario must look attractive to them, since it keeps the true masters away from the buying public.
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  #27  
Old 14-02-17, 01:25 AM
beammeup beammeup is offline
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I guess it's down to this, does MQA sound better? Yes or No?

If it does - then MQA is just fine.
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  #28  
Old 14-02-17, 02:04 AM
radamel radamel is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beammeup View Post
I guess it's down to this, does MQA sound better? Yes or No?

If it does - then MQA is just fine.
Fully decoded MQA through a Mytek Brooklyn DAC sounds bloody great.

To my ears when it unfolds to 24/352.8 it's on par with DXD or DSD 256.

Tidal's MQA is the first streaming service that IMO sounds at least as good as local Redbook files via USB asynchronous (and in many cases even better).
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  #29  
Old 14-02-17, 02:23 AM
Julf Julf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radamel View Post
Fully decoded MQA through a Mytek Brooklyn DAC sounds bloody great..
Have you had a chance to compare recordings where you *know* the source material of the MQA and non-MQA versions are exactly the same?
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  #30  
Old 14-02-17, 02:26 AM
Julf Julf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnhunt View Post
dont really understand your point tbh.the Mqa revenue would likely only come from Mqa streams.
It was in comment to " I'd also be surprised if Tidal tried to increase fees as their upside is more members". Meridian/MQA wants their licensing fees. Either Tidal has to charge extra for the MQA version, or people who don't want or need MQA end up subsidizing the MQA users.
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