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  #151  
Old 01-03-17, 01:12 PM
Svein Svein is offline
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Originally Posted by John_73 View Post
No problem - I'll be interested in your opinion of this combination. I love this sound so much I'm going to order spare caps for future use if ever needed. I'm also using the Kemet T356 tants in my Nac 12 too. They really are perfect for Naim recaps.
There is one problem with this combination: I am listening to too much music now
How do the RSL boards sound in the Nac 12?
Yes, I'll let you know what I think about this combination.
The RSL boards are great. Smoother and more resolved than the 324/321 combination without losing much of the original qualities. Maybe a little less dynamic and sharp on transients. All kinds of rock are very interesting with the RSL cards. But I'll give 60% of that credit to the Nap 120. That amplifier is unreal. I may try go active into SBLs with two of them in the future. I recall you had a Nap 120 project, tested the amplifier?
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  #152  
Old 12-03-17, 07:51 AM
John_73 John_73 is offline
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Yes it was a real mess, inside and out. I've had the chassis shot blasted and powder-coated and it looks like new, and have completed repair of the pcbs. An illness means I can't devote much time per day to diy audio unfortunately, but I'm hoping to get it all back together & rewired over the summer months. The pcb looks almost the same as the bolt-down Nap160s, with the advantage that output transistors are mounted directly of course, not on flying leads as per the 160. That might give it a slight advantage, plus it has the frame type transformer. I look forward to doing a comparison between the 120 & 160 at some point.
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  #153  
Old 12-03-17, 02:18 PM
Svein Svein is offline
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Hi John,
good to read the Nap 120 project is in progress.

I tried your receipt with the Nichicons and Cerafines after the latter arrived here last Monday. I think the sound is fast, dynamic and groovy just like you describe. It's quite similar to the original Naim sound. With the Roe capacitors I think the bass is better defined and the sound as a whole is more colorful. But all in all more similarities than differences. Thanks for sharing.
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  #154  
Old 16-03-17, 04:22 AM
John_73 John_73 is offline
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The ROE capacitors are fabulous, without a doubt. I have a pack of 20 NOS kept just incase I change my mind again
In a perfect world I'd have twin sets of cards so I can change the voicing when I feel like it.
I've noticed the KZs take a few days from new before they really shine, subjectively. Before that they can sound a little 'light-weight' and congested. The Cerafine technology seem very well suited to psu use, though I wouldn't use them directly in the signal path. The combination of KZs and Cerafines works superbly well for my tastes.
Look forward to seeing more of your Nap120 adventures.

Last edited by John_73; 19-04-17 at 07:00 AM.
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  #155  
Old 19-04-17, 07:00 AM
John_73 John_73 is offline
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After a LOT of listening, I've changed to NOS ROEs for the feedback caps Svein. You're right about their powerful lower bass, and that lovely full sounding slightly colourful midrange. The sound blossoms with the ROE types. But I've remained with Cerafines for the 24V psu rail positions - I think they're superb here. The KZs are still fantastic caps, but I wonder if the lack of an aluminium case gives the ROEs their subjective audible strengths... I have also noticed too that although they say 47uF, they're often higher than that, whereas the KZs are often at or slightly below 47uF. Might be the reason for the bass being a little fuller with the ROEs.
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  #156  
Old 20-04-17, 01:34 AM
Svein Svein is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_73 View Post
After a LOT of listening, I've changed to NOS ROEs for the feedback caps Svein. You're right about their powerful lower bass, and that lovely full sounding slightly colourful midrange. The sound blossoms with the ROE types. But I've remained with Cerafines for the 24V psu rail positions - I think they're superb here. The KZs are still fantastic caps, but I wonder if the lack of an aluminium case gives the ROEs their subjective audible strengths... I have also noticed too that although they say 47uF, they're often higher than that, whereas the KZs are often at or slightly below 47uF. Might be the reason for the bass being a little fuller with the ROEs.
Lot of listening here also. The 12/120 has a dynamic and rythmic sound with a pace and drive it's hard to resist. I'll try the Cerafines as in you description later on. It's certainly good caps. The Nac 12/3 in daily use was like new when I bought it. The motherboard is issue 2. All capacitors on the 324 and 321 cards are 'Roe'. I promised myself to never touch the cards, but during easter I removed all the capacitors and measured them. All were within spesications, the Roes measured like the NOS bought on Ebay, between 50-55uf, esr 0.5-0.6 ohm. Same with the green Roe 'ERO' tantals, all between 10-12uf and esr around 0.5 ohm. I soldered them back (with 33 Tri-sol solder from the 1970s i got from my father) after taking notes and making the best possible symmetry, and using the caps close to the specs in the signal path. The cards are still in the 12 and sounds very good.



Last edited by Svein; 19-06-17 at 11:41 AM.
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  #157  
Old 19-06-17, 10:46 AM
Svein Svein is offline
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An enthusiast gave me some more info on the Nac 12.






Last edited by Svein; Today at 01:25 AM.
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  #158  
Old 19-06-17, 11:44 AM
wylton wylton is offline
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I have two NAC 12's up in the workshop, waiting for me to decide what to do with them. I have a NAP 120 too; I'll post up some pics when I get a chance.
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  #159  
Old 19-06-17, 12:15 PM
divedeepdog divedeepdog is offline
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I've got an updated 12 according to the information (Class A serviced). Slip it into the system every now and then. Majors on pace and attack and oddly sounds more 'hi-fi' than my Avondale 102, even with 821's in it.
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  #160  
Old 19-06-17, 12:26 PM
wylton wylton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by divedeepdog View Post
Majors on pace and attack and oddly sounds more 'hi-fi' than my Avondale 102...
Interesting you should say that, I have a standard (albeit Avondale powered) NAC 102 in my main system. In the office system, the NAC 12 will have to compete with a NAC 42.5/Avondale TPR4 upgraded Hi-Cap.

I intend to keep the NAC 12's as standard as possible.
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  #161  
Old 19-06-17, 12:27 PM
Svein Svein is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by divedeepdog View Post
I've got an updated 12 according to the information (Class A serviced). Slip it into the system every now and then. Majors on pace and attack and oddly sounds more 'hi-fi' than my Avondale 102, even with 821's in it.
The updated (hicap version) Nac 12s is the worst sounding version imo.
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  #162  
Old 19-06-17, 12:32 PM
divedeepdog divedeepdog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Svein View Post
The updated (hicap version) Nac 12s is the worst sounding version imo.
I've not heard any of the others, but would guess by this age their service condition would be more important than model designation?


Does the dual rail supply left/right or is the extra rail directed towards the phono stage?

*Mine are powered by TPX2's
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  #163  
Old 20-06-17, 06:52 AM
Svein Svein is offline
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Yes, the extra rail was directed at the phono cards and the unit was serviced and recapped. The Hicap tightened up the sound significantly and put all emphasis on pace and timing, the Nac 12 become very hifi and hard sounding. I wonder if a Hicap is too much for the Nac 12, much of the same happend when i used the single rail output of the Hicap on another identical single rail example I have here. The Nac 12 just lost the funky groove and flow.
The cards and Hicap are all recently serviced. I have a serviced original cb-Snaps here and this make an ok improvement although the 12 also sounds very good feed from a Nap 120 or 160. Maybe a Snaps2 is best if the 12 is dual railed?
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  #164  
Old 20-06-17, 11:39 AM
MJS MJS is offline
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RE: Dual rail. Officially we did it by supplying the 321 gain boards from one rail and everything else from the other.
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