pink fish media

Go Back   pink fish media > discussion > audio

Notices

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 05-04-12, 09:12 PM
ryder ryder is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 554
Challenge From Harbeth - Free M40.1 For Those Who Can Identify Amplifier Differences

Those who stay in Lindfield, near West Sussex may want to give it a try.

http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/s...comparisons%29



Here is a challenge then.

If, in a controlled experiment with all variables accounted for (incl. differences in frequency reponse and within the power range appropriate to the amps) under instantaneous A-B relay switchover, driving any Harbeth speakers, if you can positively identify an amplifier by sound alone, I will give you, FOC, a pair of brand new Harbeth speakers, up to and including a pair of M40.1 in any veneer you fancy.

I am quite confident that under controlled conditions, these fabled amplifier differences disappear and that I will never be parting with my money!

However, I don't have the time to play around. You have to conceive of the test, design the switch over system and bring it to us here and we'll cooperate fully. There are plenty of examples of carefully constructed tests over the past 30+ years to draw on that meet my critera, and every one of them comes to the same conclusion. As far as this 'amp matching to Harbeth speakers' issue goes, it is a non-issue. As dead as the dodo. I cannot comment on the amp matching for other speaker brands. We take care to make our speaker an easy load: other speaker designers may be less consumer-focused.

NO CORRESPONDENCE PLEASE - CALL ME WHEN YOU HAVE THE WHOLE PLAN EXECUTED!

Amplifiers should be selected not for "sound quality" (whatever that is) but for facilities, design integrity, durability, after care and likelyhood of being able to source service parts in 5 or 10 years. Also, if you're really serious, a quick peek at the financial standing of the brand might tell you if they are likely to have the financial resources to weather the economic downturn of the next few years which is effecting the whole consumer electronics sector. Some of the most likely surviving (UK) brands rarely advertise, rarely exhibit, have relatively old-fashioned designs, use standard parts, have been around for a generation and are rock solid businesses. They deserve to be respected and supported because they will be there to look after you in 10+ years.

There are some very difficult times ahead for the consumer industry: now is a time to be cautious.

Alan A. Shaw
Designer, owner
Harbeth Audio UK
  #2  
Old 05-04-12, 09:50 PM
DuncanF DuncanF is offline
pfm Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,298
Isn't this possibly a spectacular own goal?
  #3  
Old 05-04-12, 10:39 PM
Errol Errol is offline
pfm Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 877
Is he saying, with this atonishing and rather confusing statement, that Harbeth speakers are so coloured in their presentation that all amplifiers not built with "sound quality, whatever that is" as their prime objective will sound the same when driving them?
Errol.
  #4  
Old 05-04-12, 11:25 PM
canonman canonman is online now
pfm Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,500
I had to laugh at the comments regarding financial stability, bearing in mind the late 90's rather quiet death of Harbeth Acoustics ......He has a short memory!
  #5  
Old 05-04-12, 11:30 PM
avole avole is online now
pfm Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,358
Interesting when you click on the link from Chrome:

Warning: Something's Not Right Here!
www.harbeth.co.uk contains malware. Your computer might catch a virus if you visit this site.
Google has found malicious software may be installed onto your computer if you proceed. If you've visited this site in the past or you trust this site, it's possible that it has just recently been compromised by a hacker. You should not proceed, and perhaps try again tomorrow or go somewhere else.
We have already notified www.harbeth.co.uk that we found malware on the site.
  #6  
Old 06-04-12, 12:15 AM
Phil Craddock Phil Craddock is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 61
I've just been on the Harbeth forum and this is not a spoof challenge. Alan Shaw is effectively saying that under controlled conditions, especially relating to gain, he believes that it is impossible to tell the difference between different amplifiers.

To win, you need to be able to identify the difference by a factor of 60 out of 100. Remember, there will be no variability in the gain between the two amps. A comparator is to be used for switching between amps via a foot pedal!

To win, you will need to be able to select the "better" amp 60 times out of 100. One poster on there has commented that the chance statistical probability of a positive 60% selection may prove costly to Mr Shaw!

Either way, I just doesn't seem correct to me that the difference between say a Lavardin IT and a cheapo integrated amp from Richer Sounds cannot be heard. If this is the case, are we all wasting our money when upgrading electronics?
  #7  
Old 06-04-12, 12:30 AM
rbrierle rbrierle is offline
pfm Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Craddock View Post
If this is the case, are we all wasting our money when upgrading electronics?
Exactly what some would argue, inc the Harbeth man.
  #8  
Old 06-04-12, 12:32 AM
jcbrum jcbrum is offline
pfm Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,557
Virus Warning

Quote:
Originally Posted by avole View Post
Warning: Something's Not Right Here!
www.harbeth.co.uk contains malware. Your computer might catch a virus if you visit this site.

I've just had exactly the same problem warning occur when accessing the link to the Harbeth forum posted by Alan Shaw.

It appeared when I was using a Mac running OS X 10.6.8 with Safari 5.1.5

VirusBarrier Express reported no problems.

I changed to a Win7 64bit compute running Internet Explorer64 and got no warning.

I ran Safari on the Win7 and got the warning.

Microsoft security Essentials scan reported no problems.

It's possible that the virus warning is related to the recent Java trojan virus.

JC
__________________
Opinion is worthless in the presence of evidence

Last edited by jcbrum; 06-04-12 at 12:34 AM. Reason: addendum
  #9  
Old 06-04-12, 12:36 AM
Paul R Paul R is offline
pfm Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 13,106
Quote:
I just doesn't seem correct to me that the difference between say a Lavardin IT and a cheapo integrated amp from Richer Sounds cannot be heard
You have to eliminate frequency response variations and clipping from the comparison. Under those conditions I think you might be surprised.

Paul
  #10  
Old 06-04-12, 12:37 AM
jcbrum jcbrum is offline
pfm Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,557
p.s. Apple have issued an anti-malware update yesterday. Mac users should run software update and install it.

JC
__________________
Opinion is worthless in the presence of evidence
  #11  
Old 06-04-12, 12:38 AM
Teddy Ray Teddy Ray is offline
pfm Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,953
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Craddock View Post
If this is the case, are we all wasting our money when upgrading electronics?
Yes. Absolutely. audiophiles always fail blind tests. most fail spectacularly.


I buy based on warranty(my bryston has the best warranty in the business), specs, and durability.
  #12  
Old 06-04-12, 12:38 AM
spxy spxy is offline
pfm Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul R View Post
You have to eliminate frequency response variations and clipping from the comparison. Under those conditions I think you might be surprised.

Paul
why? aren't those part of the sound?
A bit like saying if we set them up to be the same they will sound the same?

Remember we can "set" a 911 and a mini metro both to travel at 70mph, it doesn't mean thats all there is to their potential performance.
__________________
OH no what have I done!
  #13  
Old 06-04-12, 12:40 AM
jcbrum jcbrum is offline
pfm Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul R View Post
You have to eliminate frequency response variations and clipping from the comparison. Under those conditions I think you might be surprised.

Paul

I agree about clipping, but not frequency response variations.

If your amp doesn't have a flat frequency response, - it's broken.

JC
__________________
Opinion is worthless in the presence of evidence
  #14  
Old 06-04-12, 12:42 AM
avole avole is online now
pfm Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,358
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcbrum View Post
p.s. Apple have issued an anti-malware update yesterday. Mac users should run software update and install it.

JC
Just checked both macs for the malware - nothing. Get the warning on one mac but not the other.

Anyway, back to topic.
  #15  
Old 06-04-12, 12:44 AM
jcbrum jcbrum is offline
pfm Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,557
Quote:
Originally Posted by avole View Post
Get the warning on one mac but not the other.
That's a bit odd ?

JC
__________________
Opinion is worthless in the presence of evidence
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
pink fish media