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  #31  
Old 26-11-09, 11:53 AM
dave dave is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr Tibbs View Post
Your thought was correct.

However, in keeping with the now retro-ness of the rest of my system, I fancied a Karik Numerik.

Mr Tibbs
Just to clarify, Mr. Tibbs. You're saying you downgraded the sound quality of your system to maintain its retro look?

regards,

dave
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  #32  
Old 26-11-09, 12:40 PM
Mr Tibbs Mr Tibbs is offline
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LOL @ dave

Trust you to read that into what I said

No, there is no downgrade to my ears.

BUT, I'm not going to slag off the Benchmark now that I no longer have it, if that's what you (and muzzer) are looking for! It's a great bit of kit for the money IMO.

The Karik and Numerik have a couple of advantages. They sinc-link together, neatly solving the clocking issues that a separate DAC/digital source normally has. In effect, the Numerik has 'remote control' of the data flow, ensuring that the bitstream from the Karik is fed to it at precisely the correct rate. Not even the new Naim DAC is capable of doing that with any existing Naim digital source! I think the K&N have a unique sound -- highly detailed and dynamic, yet very easy to listen to over extended periods.

The other advantage is that the Numerik is pretty capable in stand-alone mode too, so it can serve as a DAC for the Mac, when the mood takes me. In this respect it has a different (rather than better/worse) sound to the Mac > DAC-1 for sure, but both are great IMO.

There are some big disadvantages to running a K&N;

Both are no longer supported by Linn, should something go wrong. In particular, the Karik is prone to various transport-related failures, though the later models do seem to fare a bit better in this respect. Also, the SMPS in both the K&N seem to be failing on older models. The Numerik is not able to process anything above 16/48, so 'studio master' type files are not playable.

The negatives don't bother me, but I imagine they'd be deal-breakers for many other people.

Mr Tibbs
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Last edited by Mr Tibbs; 26-11-09 at 01:19 PM.
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  #33  
Old 26-11-09, 01:13 PM
linnfomaniac83 linnfomaniac83 is offline
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Originally Posted by TheDecameron View Post
Thats quite a claim- you really are saying the DS sounds better than the CD12?
It does I'm afraid ! In a way I really didn't want it to but the chance came to buy a lightly used akurate ds for a shade over 2k and I had a buyer waiting for the cd12 willing to pay 5k so I gave up the cd12

However though the ds sounds better it isn't the same, you don't seem to have the same level of involvement when using the ds and you need to use a computer of some sort to operate it !

At first I really loved the ds because it does sound amazing but I am missing the cd12 now.
At least I proffited from the cd12 as I sold it for more than I paid for it
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  #34  
Old 26-11-09, 01:14 PM
Mr Tibbs Mr Tibbs is offline
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BTW, 'going retro' for me, has nothing to do with how the kit 'looks'. By retro I mean kit that is no longer made, but is not old enough to be considered 'classic'.

Since the Gales have returned, I've wanted to go the whole hog and front the system with a K&N, because I had a hunch the old Linn player would perfectly compliment the sound of the 401s, and it can do the computer audio thing too. I think my hunch has paid off.

Also, going retro is a great way to avoid the temptation of wanting to try the 'next big thing', because new kit has no place in a retro system

Mr Tibbs
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  #35  
Old 26-11-09, 01:32 PM
muzzer muzzer is offline
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Mr T
I was not waiting for you to slag off the Benchmark, what concerned me was that up to a few weeks ago you championed the macbook/dac1/iTunes as the dogs bollox as a digital source but you have now ditched it for a 1990s cdp. I just wondered if you thought the mac solution was not really as good as you thought.
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  #36  
Old 26-11-09, 02:27 PM
dave dave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Tibbs View Post
LOL @ dave

Trust you to read that into what I said

No, there is no downgrade to my ears.

BUT, I'm not going to slag off the Benchmark now that I no longer have it, if that's what you (and muzzer) are looking for! It's a great bit of kit for the money IMO.

The Karik and Numerik have a couple of advantages. They sinc-link together, neatly solving the clocking issues that a separate DAC/digital source normally has. In effect, the Numerik has 'remote control' of the data flow, ensuring that the bitstream from the Karik is fed to it at precisely the correct rate. Not even the new Naim DAC is capable of doing that with any existing Naim digital source! I think the K&N have a unique sound -- highly detailed and dynamic, yet very easy to listen to over extended periods.

The other advantage is that the Numerik is pretty capable in stand-alone mode too, so it can serve as a DAC for the Mac, when the mood takes me. In this respect it has a different (rather than better/worse) sound to the Mac > DAC-1 for sure, but both are great IMO.

There are some big disadvantages to running a K&N;

Both are no longer supported by Linn, should something go wrong. In particular, the Karik is prone to various transport-related failures, though the later models do seem to fare a bit better in this respect. Also, the SMPS in both the K&N seem to be failing on older models. The Numerik is not able to process anything above 16/48, so 'studio master' type files are not playable.

The negatives don't bother me, but I imagine they'd be deal-breakers for many other people.

Mr Tibbs
Slagging never crossed my mind sir.

Whew...you had me worried. I was concerned you had turned into a trendy fashion slave there for a minute willing to substitute flash for substance;-) Glad the K&N does it for you. I think it's a phenomenal player by any standards.
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  #37  
Old 26-11-09, 02:54 PM
Mr Tibbs Mr Tibbs is offline
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muzzer,

I still think the Mac > DAC-1 is great sounding 'digital audio'. I thought I'd made that abundantly clear. I would have no hesitation in recommending it as a seriously competent source.

Don't be to too quick to write off the K&N as '1990s' technology - IMO Linn nailed it with the K&N back then, but subsequently lost the plot when they introduced the Ikemi.

Quote:
Whew...you had me worried. I was concerned you had turned into a trendy fashion slave there for a minute willing to substitute flash for substance;-) Glad the K&N does it for you. I think it's a phenomenal player by any standards.
dave, you should know me by now - I'm a slave to nothin' or nobody!

Mr Tibbs
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  #38  
Old 26-11-09, 03:08 PM
cheviot cheviot is offline
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Squeezbox + late Brilliant Numerik III are a nice combo.
Not quite as pristine as my Ikemi but aesthetics are good and great utility and warm and detailed sound (as with my Pekin) are excellent for background ambience and party functions.
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  #39  
Old 27-11-09, 02:17 AM
panda panda is offline
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mr tibbs, in my case the benchie is unlistenable (induces sleep, lol) where as i still hold a fondness for the numerik. glad u are enjoying it. it's got a certain charm to the sound, ie kans.

i agree about the ikemi, altough i liked the mimik b4 that, was more silky and less enthusiastic than the numerik (as in more natural sounding), reminds me of a thicker sounding meridian 506.
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  #40  
Old 27-11-09, 07:55 AM
Mr Tibbs Mr Tibbs is offline
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panda,

Comments I've read about the Benchmark vary so much I'm beginning to think there must have been significant changes to it since it was first introduced. I wouldn't describe mine as 'sleep inducing' at any rate!

I've already recently mentioned this on another thread, but years ago I made a blunder and bought an Ikemi instead of adding a Numerik to my (then) Karik. Now that Ikemi WAS 'sleep inducing' -- to the point of bringing me to a near comatose state

cheviot,

Assuming you have tried running your Numerik off the Ikemi with sinc-link, what did you make of the sound compared to the bare Ikemi?

Mr Tibbs
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  #41  
Old 28-04-12, 01:10 AM
didacus59 didacus59 is offline
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Help to buy a converter for Numerik DAC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Tibbs View Post
I also use the Numerik as a DAC for the optical out of my Macbook (optical/co-axial converter widget needed) and it sound great is it

Not as good as when playing CDs from the sync-linked Karik, though.

Mr Tibbs
Hello, I write from Italy, so excuse my English not perfect.

I would use like you the Linn Numerik DAC to transferring music from my PC. I had already tried using a DAC Trends, but this did not work.

Could you tell me what equipment do you use? The "converter" must have dual outputs BNC andCoax to work?

Thanks for your help
Diego
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  #42  
Old 29-04-12, 08:57 AM
Mr Tibbs Mr Tibbs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by didacus59 View Post
Hello, I write from Italy, so excuse my English not perfect.

I would use like you the Linn Numerik DAC to transferring music from my PC. I had already tried using a DAC Trends, but this did not work.

Could you tell me what equipment do you use? The "converter" must have dual outputs BNC andCoax to work?

Thanks for your help
Diego
Hello Diego and welcome to pink fish.

The Numerik has two S/P-DIF signal INPUTS. Each of these inputs has an accompanying CD SYNC OUTPUT.

The S/P-DIF input connectors are the BNC type.
The SYNC output connectors are the RCA type.

Any digital source device (whether CD transport or computer audio card or music streaming device) that has a S/P-DIF electrical output can be connected directly to an input of the Numerik, using the appropriate lead and connectors. None of these devices will be able to accept a CD SYNC signal from the Numerik (function works only with a Linn CD transport), but that will not prevent the Numerik from operating correctly as a standalone DAC.

If you want to connect a digital source that only has an optical output, then you must use an optical to electrical signal convertor between the source and the Numerik. These convertors are available quite cheaply and seem to work well enough.

Please note that the Numerik is only able to accept "standard resolution" digital audio at 44.1 kHz (CD) and 48 kHz (DAT) and therefore will not work with "high-res" signals.

Hope that answers your questions.

Mr Tibbs
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  #43  
Old 29-04-12, 06:27 PM
cheviot cheviot is offline
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This thread started in 2008 and some opinions (including my own) may be a bit dated, and I was just wondering if anybody has an opinion about the viability of this vintage dac these days, as many claims of dramatic developments have been made here and elsewhere.
I know it's pretty long in the tooth - mine's a Numerik III used with a Squeezebox III - and time marches on, but I'm still curious about whether a more modern device would provide a really dramatic improvement with a Squeezebox III. Thoughts? Is it a relic?
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  #44  
Old 30-04-12, 08:47 AM
didacus59 didacus59 is offline
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DAC FOR NUMERIK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Tibbs View Post
Hello Diego and welcome to pink fish.

The Numerik has two S/P-DIF signal INPUTS. Each of these inputs has an accompanying CD SYNC OUTPUT.

The S/P-DIF input connectors are the BNC type.
The SYNC output connectors are the RCA type.

Any digital source device (whether CD transport or computer audio card or music streaming device) that has a S/P-DIF electrical output can be connected directly to an input of the Numerik, using the appropriate lead and connectors. None of these devices will be able to accept a CD SYNC signal from the Numerik (function works only with a Linn CD transport), but that will not prevent the Numerik from operating correctly as a standalone DAC.

If you want to connect a digital source that only has an optical output, then you must use an optical to electrical signal convertor between the source and the Numerik. These convertors are available quite cheaply and seem to work well enough.

Please note that the Numerik is only able to accept "standard resolution" digital audio at 44.1 kHz (CD) and 48 kHz (DAT) and therefore will not work with "high-res" signals.

Hope that answers your questions.

Mr Tibbs
Yes MR Tibbs thanks for the information.

Witch DAC You use?
I would try the Trends Audio UD-10 USB; you know if it can work well with Numerik?

Or you could advise me one?
Best Regard
Diego
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  #45  
Old 30-04-12, 10:15 AM
Mr Tibbs Mr Tibbs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheviot View Post
This thread started in 2008 and some opinions (including my own) may be a bit dated, and I was just wondering if anybody has an opinion about the viability of this vintage dac these days, as many claims of dramatic developments have been made here and elsewhere.
I know it's pretty long in the tooth - mine's a Numerik III used with a Squeezebox III - and time marches on, but I'm still curious about whether a more modern device would provide a really dramatic improvement with a Squeezebox III. Thoughts? Is it a relic?
Good question.

My thoughts are that the Numerik is still a superb DAC by any standards. That is, so long as you don't need/want the ability to convert 'high-res' digital, for reasons already mentioned.

Certainly, I found it to be very much better than the much vaunted Benchmark DAC-1 that I tried for a while before I got hold of the minty Numerik I now use. Whether fed by an Airport Express (basement quality digital source) or by the optical output of a Macbook (average quality digital source), the Numerik was by far the most convincing music-maker of the two. Better still, when fed from my Karik III (and SYNC linked) the music really gels in a way that is head and shoulders above the Benchmark. Make of that what you will.

It's worth pointing out, the Numerik is a very high specification piece of kit. The analogue filters (for instance) are fully discrete - a major factor IMO that makes the Numerik such a satisfyingly engaging listen. There may well be better DACs out there now, but at what price? I certainly have no interest in finding out what 'the next big thing' sounds like anymore.

Mr Tibbs
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