How Times Change.

Mullardman · #1 18-10-10, 03:57 PM

Some may have viewed 'Gunn Law' on ITV1 a short while ago. It concerned a Nottm. Gangster and a Nottm. Estate, which was portrayed as Hell on Earth.

I was raised there. It was never 'posh', but it was, and still is, mostly populated by decent, hard working people.
When I was young, people would walk down the street on a Summer's evening looking at each garden as they passed on the way to the pub for an evening in 'Best Bib and Tucker'.
My Dad's collection of HT Roses and Auriculas always drew admiring glances.

Even as a teen, I always dressed in my best for Sunday Evening.

In the context of Post War Britain, with its housing and general shortage, Bestwood Est., in Nottm, was as close as you were going to get to a pleasant, semi-rural council est. I loved the place. My Grammar School re-located there in 1955 from grossly inadequate City Centre premises.

Now, even though still mostly populated by decent hard working folk, it is a place tainted by crime, drugs and murder. Every last pub, those places which used to be the focus of the community, has closed. The surrounding countryside has been buried under land-fill, cheap housing and even cheaper low grade industrial units.

I wonder if there is a way back from this.

Mull

matt j · #2 18-10-10, 04:16 PM

Ahhh, the Gunnies, lovely bunch of folks.

The only way to get back to how it was would be to knock it all down and start from scratch, so that's never then.

Mullardman · #3 18-10-10, 04:31 PM

I fear you are correct Matt, but it needed saying, if only to prod some here into thinking about something other than themselves for a nanosecond

Sadly, you can't 'un-bury' a meadow, or 'un-fell' a hedgerow.

Mull

prowla · #4 18-10-10, 10:34 PM

Give ordinary people the right to carry guns too, rather than just the criminals.

(Yes, I know it was Gunn, but IMHO the criminals get away with murder these days.)

Cesare · #5 18-10-10, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prowla

Give ordinary people the right to carry guns too, rather than just the criminals.

(Yes, I know it was Gunn, but IMHO the criminals get away with murder these days.)

Prowla,

Thank god you aren't in power.

Mull,

What you've pointed to is a change (sadly a decline) in society. Whether the cause or effect is the environment these people grow up in is I think open to debate, but i'm firmly in the cause camp.

A great and influential book on the subject is 'The Death and Life of Great American Cities' by Jane Jacobs. Well worth tracking down a copy if you haven't read it. Unfortunately, if you follow her reasoning, I fear the estate you grew up on was doomed to failure the day it was built. Sure, it took a number of years for the implications to work through because the people living there came from community oriented housing, but the first or second generation of children growing up there won't have had this experience, so the decline accelerates with each new generation.

Anyway, buy a copy, read it, think about your experience in this context and see if it makes any sense to you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dea...merican_Cities

Greg · #6 18-10-10, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt j

Ahhh, the Gunnies, lovely bunch of folks.

The only way to get back to how it was would be to knock it all down and start from scratch, so that's never then.

a friend of mine is Marvyn Bradshaw's uncle. That death devastated their family. O'Brien who killed him was a picture of kids growing up stone cold of feelings, but the murder of his mum and her partner was terrible. Just shows the utter futility of summary justice becoming the norm. Nothing good came of any of it. Ironically though my friends in Nott tell me a lot of people respect the Gunns.

andrew d · #7 19-10-10, 12:03 AM

Gunn's wife didn't seem very clued in did she. "35 years!!!!"
We'll that's the tariff for shooting someone dead. If you're in business or closely associated with one you should check out the risks.

barrymidd · #8 19-10-10, 12:23 AM

There was an announcement this morning from the government to say that council tenants will no longer have the right to a council house for life. I didn't catch the details but in principle, might this not break the power of these council estate mafias. Of course the devil will be in the detail, as always.

Rodrat · #9 19-10-10, 01:02 AM

The local authorities are not helping. They tend to put all the worst problem families in the same roads which usually means that the whole estate is tainted by the dregs of humanity. If social services did a bit more preventative work instead of crisis work, they would have taken away the children away when they had some chance of leading a 'normal' life instead of becoming criminals.

Darmok · #10 19-10-10, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrymidd

There was an announcement this morning from the government to say that council tenants will no longer have the right to a council house for life. I didn't catch the details but in principle, might this not break the power of these council estate mafias. Of course the devil will be in the detail, as always.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11570923

Mmmm, 150.000 more
wendy houses on the
horizon.

prowla · #11 19-10-10, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cesare

Prowla,

Thank god you aren't in power.

Why?
Have you ever noticed how polite and tolerant drivers in the US are?

Uzinusa · #12 19-10-10, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prowla

Why?
Have you ever noticed how polite and tolerant drivers in the US are?

Prowla, what is oft mistaken for curtesy in the USA is actually just "fully-occupied" - that is with the business of making a phone call, reading a map, checking property particulars, putting on some slap, checking what the kids are up to, making sure the boat is still properly hitched etc :-)

Cav · #13 19-10-10, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mullardman

I wonder if there is a way back from this.

Mull

Don't worry, Mull. When they evict all the unemployed scroungers who live in luxury on housing benefit in central London, they will send them all to Nottingham...

demotivated · #14 19-10-10, 07:40 AM

Even the worst estates [I grew up in NE England] have a majority of decent people - or at least people who would behave decently if they were anywhere else

Time to trot these ones out again:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/...lion-home.html

http://www.financialsensearchive.com...2007/0420.html

Cesare · #15 19-10-10, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prowla

Why?
Have you ever noticed how polite and tolerant drivers in the US are?

Just out of interest, where exactly in the world have you ever been? I'm interested in your conclusion that politeness and tolerance is related to gun ownership. I'm also guessing the parts of the US where people are polite and tolerant aren't exactly the same as the parts of the US where i've been - i'd not put New York highly on my 'polite and tolerant' scale.