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DeAgostini Classic Jazz on 33 1/3 Collection

Discussion in 'music' started by Algonquin, Jan 20, 2016.

  1. Colonel_Mad

    Colonel_Mad pfm Member

    A new Beatles thread may be in order to avoid going off topic. I'll start one up.
     
  2. poco a poco

    poco a poco pfm Member

    Just listened to Ben Webster meets Oscar Peterson and the pressing and mastering of this fine 1959 recording is superb. It is of course an early hard left / right stereo, but the focus is clearly on Webster solidly in the centre (well pretty much in my room really), but all the quartet are well recorded and the recording of Ray Brown's double bass is as good as the best I have heard. Again in my room about 3 feet behind the right speaker, but with a 'pool' of the original room ambiance around him.


    I don't have an original pressing or a mono, but I don't think it could get much better than this. Sound quality wise perhaps the star of the series so far and of course Webster is at the height of his powers.

    Next issue is Hank Mobley - Soul Station, that I do have an early pressing of, but not an original, so I hope that mastering is as good as this.
     
  3. Mullardman

    Mullardman Resident Philistine

    I just received an email from D'Agostini today re: this.

    Given that I'm pretty satisfied with the Jazz series and seriously lacking in Beatles Vinyl what does the team think?

    I have searched for Colonel Mad's promised thread on this but can't find it.

    Mull
     
  4. springer

    springer pfm Member

    Back to Jazz; has the Art Blakey 'Drum Suite' been through yet? It's the main one I was waiting for, but as the series has disappeared from the shops, it's not obvious what's been & gone.
     
  5. Colonel_Mad

    Colonel_Mad pfm Member

    They're still stocking them in our local WH Smiths (how has that company not gone to the wall yet?).

    Saw 'Study in Brown' by Clifford Brown and Max Roach there at the weekend. That led me to dig out Cannonball Adderley's 'Something Else' from the series when I got home. Jesus that record sounds good! Stunning pressing.

    No sign of 'Drum Suite' yet. You haven't missed it.
     
  6. poco a poco

    poco a poco pfm Member

    No no 'Drum Suite' yet.

    This week Sonny Clark 'Cool Struttin' next up The Gerry Mulligan Quartet 'What is there to say?'

    I don't have an original Cool Struttin', but I'm about to compare it to my Opitmal pressing of the Blue Note 75.

    List of back issues here; http://shop.deagostini.co.uk/filter-by/back-issues/jazz-at-33-rpm/
     
  7. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    Any clangers, in terms of SQ? Thinking of going back and getting a few.
     
  8. poco a poco

    poco a poco pfm Member

    No real changers, but some variation in recording / mastering quality. Where I have had a very good original or early pressing I have generally preferred it, but the Jazz 33 is usually quieter. The latter to be expected really as I have either brought the earlier pressings secondhand or been playing it for 40 - 50 years. Sometimes both. I have only had to return one out of the 29 I have (the Ella & Louis) due to a pressing fault, otherwise these have been some of the quietest flatest pressings I own.

    I was quite critical of the first Issue Miles KOB compared to my Nimbus pressing, but since have become quite a fan of these issues.

    I am about to post a comparison of Sonny Clark 'Cool Struttin' to Blue Note 75.
     
  9. poco a poco

    poco a poco pfm Member

    Sonny Clark 'Cool Struttin' compared.

    I have just compared the latest Jazz 33 I have of Sonny Clark's 'Cool Struttin' with another contempary re-issue the Blue Note 75. Unfortunately I don't have a really good early version.

    I had thought my Blue Note 75 was an Optimal pressing, but rechecking it is from GZ Vinyl which is a Czech plant.

    Sleeve: the Jazz 33 has a warmer slightly yellow tone to the photograph and front text. The 75 is just B & W and close inspection shows sings of the 'screen'. Type face on rear is slightly more bold on them Jazz 33. My guess is Jazz 33 has gone back to the original art work and 75 has been scanned from an early sleeve?

    Pressings: Both pressing are flat and quiet including the 'dead wax'. Perhaps the Jazz 33 has even blacker silences? Both nominally 180g. Jazz 33 = 194g. 75 = 200g. On the label the Jazz 33 is the the earlier, 'release' 2012 from 1958, but leased to DeAgostini in 2017. The 75 say 2014 'release'. The 75 is Mastered by Bernie Grundman and the Jazz 33 by Ron McMaster (from a digital transfer). The 75's are supposed to be digital transfers as well, but the sleeve does not indicate this.

    Sound: I had expected there not to be much in it as I have enjoyed playing the 75 that I have had for sometime, but frankly the Jazz 33 is much better. One has to be careful to match the levels as the Jazz 33 is cut at a higher level, I would estimate about 3db higher. It is though quite difficult to match the levels by ear as the Jazz 33 has greater dynamics.

    Note that this is a mono recording and I was playing them with stereo cartridges (I tried two, Fritz Geyger 70 & 0.5,spherical tip shapes). Some people do not believe that you get any 'depth' from a mono record, but to my ears good recordings do have it. The Jazz 33 is slightly more forward, a little more in your room (but still carrying the studio ambiance with it), than the 75, but my perception is the depth is much greater. 'Philly' Joe Jones drums seem much further back behind my front wall and also much more 'solid' than on the 75. The real gains are on Clark's piano and Chambers bass. The Jazz 33 is more extended at both ends with much more detail. You hear more of Clark's left hand on the piano and Chamber's bowed bass on the track Cool Stuttin sounds much more detailed and 'woody'. Overall the 75 seems 'rolled off' at both ends. An attempt to make the digital sound more analog?

    Well to my ears this Jazz 33 does not sound 'digital', although I think I can pickup that signature on a few others in the series. It just sounds more like I expect it did in the studio.? I hear much more of the studio ambiance (the thing that is supposed to go AWOL first with digital) including differences in the 'pools' of ambiance around the instruments (I think Van Gelder used to record the drums in a different room / space)?

    Well I was quite happy with the 75, but the the better always forces out the good as they say. Now if only I could afford a Blue Note Lexington Ave original pressing of this to compare further! ;)
     
  10. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    Thanks poco a poco, very helpful.
     
  11. torstoi

    torstoi pfm Member

    Seconded, I appreciate you share your experience of vinyl quality !
     
  12. poco a poco

    poco a poco pfm Member

    Just listening to this weeks issue The Gerry Mulligan Quartet - 'What is There to Say?'
    I don't have an alternative copy of this, but this mastering seems pretty good to me. Really good depth seperation between Mulligan and Farmer and the rhythm section of Dave Bailey, drums and Bill Crow, bass. Crow's bass is beautifully recorded, well back in right side in the mix, but still clear and 'wooden' sounding.

    Art Farmer is splendid on this recording. Flat and quiet pressing from DiAgostino again. I'm hoping that this series continues to run for the full proposed 80 - 100 LP's. Next up is Herbie Hancock - 'Maiden Voyage'.
     
  13. Stunsworth

    Stunsworth pfm Member

    Since getting my turntable back from repair I've been catching up with the backlog. I've listened to just under 20 of the titles and have been very impressed with the sonics so far.

    There's one that will have to go back as it has a small piece of paper stuck in a groove that I can't easily remove. Also there are a couple of others that I may return as they're noisier than I'd expect - though I'll give them a second listen first.

    As things stand I'll definitely be seeing the series through to the end.
     
  14. poco a poco

    poco a poco pfm Member

    I originally posted the below in the Blue Note 75th thread by mistake. Just an update on how the DeAgostini reissues are working out for those like me not on subscription. It seems that so far all the ones that were in the Italian release of the titles are appearing, but now nowhere in the same order. The Louis below was 68th in the Italian release, but is 33rd here. The Gil Evans 34th was 56th in Italy.

    I had intended to buy just the ones I did not have on vinyl, but have just ended up taking them all as you can only tell what is next by opening the packaging as it is on the back of the magazine. I suppose I could do that in my Newsagents, but its fun comparing the pressings. ;)


    'I am now playing the Jazz 33 reissue that I picked up from my Newsagent today. Louis Armstrong plays W.C. Handy originally a 1954 Mono, but excellent sound quality particularly with regard to the recording of Louis and Velma Middleton's voices. I think although this was still issued in 1954 this was the second cover. I think the first was just an orange and black cover with a photo of Louis?

    Next issue will be The Gil Evans Orchestra - 'Out of the Cool'.
     
  15. poco a poco

    poco a poco pfm Member

    The Jazz 33 reissues have reached number 35 this week with Lee Konitz - 'Motion'. Konitz on alto, Elvin Jones drums and Sonny Dallas bass. I also have a 1975 Japanese pressing of this so I thought it would be fun to compare.

    Both pressings are flat and quiet, perhaps an even 'blacker' background on my Japanese pressing. In isolation the Jazz 33 mastering does sound pretty good with plenty of detail, especially in the higher frequencies and a little more weight in the bass than the Jap 1975 pressing.

    In comparison the the Jazz 33 sound stage is set a little further back, but has no more front to back depth than the Jap 1975. The soundstage width is about the same with perhaps a little more seperation between bass and drums on the Jazz 33. What I find really strange though is the room acoustics have changed and are more reverberant on the Jazz 33 especially on Konitz's alto where I'm sure reverb has been added (I can't really believe it was stripped out from the original). The Jap 1975 has a warmer more forward acoustic and no trace of reverb on Konitz's sax. He sounds like he is playing in my room in the position of the left speaker. The whole acoustic sounds like a 'club' rather than a studio. The Jazz 33 sounds like a studio, 'cooler' and with added reverb to Konitz's sax and although there is more detail the reverb spoils his tone, and smears his mouth on the reed. It also spoils the integration of the band. Konitz's no longer seems in my room, but in some odd space on his own.

    So the Japanese 1975 pressing although in a few ways technically less good is a clear winner for me. I would be interested in reports on the sound of Konitz's alto on this recording from other masterings, especially an original 1961 pressing that should be definative?

    I'm still of the opinion that on the whole the Jazz 33's are pretty good, usually beating BN75ths, but as I have found in most cases before where I could compare, if you have a good early pressing it will be better.

    Next issue for those that want to know will be Max Roach plus Four - 'Quiet as its Kept'. I don't have this so can live in blissful ignorance. ;)

    P.s. I forgot to add that the first longbtrack on side two 'Your'd be so nice to come home to' is in Mono on both LP pressings, so here the acoustic seems more integrated.
     
  16. Colonel_Mad

    Colonel_Mad pfm Member

    Oooh! A Mercury release. I think that's a first for this UK series.
     
  17. Stunsworth

    Stunsworth pfm Member

    I picked up a 2 LP parcel from the sorting office this morning. Don't know what's in it yet.
     
  18. poco a poco

    poco a poco pfm Member

    Yes there have been a couple on EmArcy which was founded by Mercury, but nothing till this actually on Mercury.
     
  19. poco a poco

    poco a poco pfm Member

    Picked up issue 36 from my newsagents yesterday. The Max Roach mentioned above. Issue 37 in two weeks time will be Count Basie At Newport.
     
  20. Dougie2404

    Dougie2404 pfm Member

    I don't know if this has been asked before, but.

    A friend of mine has started to get the collection by subscription and has just received a folder for the pamphlets/inserts. How do you fix the inserts? I presume that you break off the spikes and force them through the holes top and bottom, then the insert acts as a hinge.

    I ask as I don't want to wreck his collection , also how often do you get a folder?

    With thanks, Dougie.
     

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