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Advice for my next and definitive speakers

Discussion in 'audio' started by Malefoda, Aug 14, 2019.

  1. Malefoda

    Malefoda Well-Known Member

    Hi folks,

    I'm ready to save some money for my next and final speakers, so I need some advice about what to look at.
    My journey into speakers world brought me bad Kef Coda 7, tiny Quad 11L, good clear but bass shy B&W DM4, not refined JBL 4311, overrated JMR Twin, underrated JBL 4406 and maybe more I do not remember.

    Today I'm enjoying a pair of refurbished/upgraded filter JBL 4313B and that is a clear step up from my past speakers. They are without clear flaws and to my liking. All frequencies are very good, even the bass, and what I value a lot is that they are neutral and very dynamic and so easy to play quite loud and clear, drums starts to sounds like real life drums. Not very common JBLs, you can compare to L96 which are almost the same but for consumers, the being 4313B tighter and faster.

    I do not plan to change the amp, a dual mono Hypex UcD400HG HxR DC coupled, so speakers can be a tough load or can even be active.

    Here I am now, if I ask JBL fans they will says "JBL", I do not worship any brands or technology, don't care such things.
    So to experienced people here, what great used 4/6000€ speakers should I plan?
    As for my taste for "real life dynamic and truth" (which is a pain with bad records), I've now in mind ATC SCM50 Active, but is there any other hidden gems around?

    Thanks!
     
  2. YNWOAN

    YNWOAN 100% Analogue

    Your question is a bit too open ended and all you are likely to get is a random list of the speakers that members own (or would like to own). Perhaps you could say which speakers you have liked and disliked, the size of the room, the type of music you enjoy, the volume levels you intend to listen at and how close to the walls you intend to place these speakers?
     
  3. Malefoda

    Malefoda Well-Known Member

    You're right let's tight things up ;)
    I've liked the JBL 4406, they are pro monitors if that tells something about the sound, not music but driven by a nice class D amp on the computer they gave scary real feeling of with things like FPS and guns.
    I disliked the Coda 7, box sound, I disliked the Quad 11L for being too smooth, nice for late night jazz as background. I have a friend who bought some Kef R500, so boring, for me my 4313Bs and their nice 10" woofers do much better! I only listen to records in front of it and want to be there, chest physically beaten by drums when needed. I listen to rock mainly, when Bonzo brings new energy to a song like in "In My Time Of Dying" I want the toms to slam as hard and fast as possible.
    I also listen to extreme metal, now with my current 4313B (again pro monitors) I can here the music and not a sound mess. Let the metal of cymbals sounds like metal, not silk which they are not made of. Real, not bright to be clear :)
    Room is of average size, good sounding even if a roaming bunny prevents any fine placement for now, they will move where they sound best later, even if taking half the room.
    https://i.ibb.co/ZWWQ6X7/Room.jpg
    If I need only one request about speakers it's that I want to hear and feel in my body at real life sound level and slam level a samba drums brigade. And that's just impossible, just a target!
     
  4. John55

    John55 New Member

    I recently purchased a pair of Klipsch Forte 3's. I think they would be a great fit for you. With your budget you could even move up the product line to Cornwall 3 or even La Scalas. All very dynamic and real sounding.
     
  5. Malefoda

    Malefoda Well-Known Member

    Hi,
    had a look at my local shop website, they have a pair of Cornwall III, I'll have an ear then, quite lucky I can!
    Edit: 102dB/ 2,83V/1m... bad source background noise forbidden :)
     
  6. mattgbell

    mattgbell Stop worrying!

    I'm currently using JBL 4429s, which I bought second-hand for £3K. The UK list price has now been reduced to £5K.

    The 4429s would be a step up from your 4313Bs in the sense that the 4429s have a 12" woofer. Also the horn-loaded mid/tweeter may provide better dynamics than the 4313Bs. (I'm expressing myself cautiously because I haven't heard the 4313Bs.)

    Definitely worth a listen if you can find some.
     
  7. Malefoda

    Malefoda Well-Known Member

    mattgbell likes this.
  8. julian2002

    julian2002 pfm Member

    Build your own or have some built to your design and specifications. There are plenty of plans and supply sites on the web and a reasonably skilled chippie can sort the cabinets out if that's not your thing. Everything from bass monster 3 ways to massive horns to everything inbetween.
    No resale value of course but if this is to be your final pair of speakers who cares?
     
  9. julian2002

    julian2002 pfm Member

    Build your own or have some built to your design and specifications. There are plenty of plans and supply sites on the web and a reasonably skilled chippie can sort the cabinets out if that's not your thing. Everything from bass monster 3 ways to massive horns to everything inbetween.
    No resale value of course but if this is to be your final pair of speakers who cares?
     
  10. PerF

    PerF Member

  11. Yomanze

    Yomanze pfm Member

    As an extreme metal fan myself, you need fast, very low distortion speakers that can take demanding loads at high power, way lower than a minimal jazz fan or chamber fan might appreciate in their setups. I can highly recommend audition a pair of the latest Amphion range, with the passive radiators.

    Personally I use a set of Royd RR3s, you might also like to try a set of big Tannoys or Yamaha NS-1000s.
     
  12. PBB

    PBB pfm Member

    The only thing I would recommend to any metal fan, let alone an extreme fan of metal or even a fan of extreme metal, is get real music to listen to with what little hearing you have left!

    Notice I wrote "I would recommend" never said it is what I do recommend. To each his own.

    If I were into that type of music though, and given a large enough room, I would go for a pair of Klipsch Forte III SE.

    Cheers!
     
  13. Malefoda

    Malefoda Well-Known Member

    Hi guys,
    build mine why not, maybe half-way with kits from Wilmslow Audio, but I really don't know which one compare to what (I've seen lovely things from Troëls Gravesen). Yes wood work is not my thing and beside pro makers (costlier than car sellers here in France) I have no options. BTW, any precise kit you know for being terrific?
    Will read about the JBL 3677, thanks.
    And also I'll have a look at the Amphion brand and Royd, (know nothing about), but I think the NS-1000 will not be an upgrade or a tiny one, one can find some used around 1500€ here (much higher price for latest models and mint shape), the JBL 4313B I currently enjoy are the same price these days. ( https://son-passion.com/enceintes/130-enceintes-vintage-jbl-4313b-control-monitor.html and the woofer for the terrific bass: http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=1112&stc=1&d=1066188524 ) I know it's hard to advise as you don't know how it sounds, I may add that mine have nicely integrated tailored titanium tweeter and premium crossover parts. (if you like metal these JBL are unbeatable in the sub-1000€ used speakers IMHO, a good produced record like "Sons Of Northen Darkness" and the same track from Immortal sound clear and easy, never heard like that before! And my next speakers must improve in every way. Of coure "Transilvanian Hunger" will sound awful on all speakers ;)
    Maybe I can say that in the shop where my friend bought its Kef R500 new we heard many speakers up to 4000/5000€. Some has great this or that, some more refined silky sound, but none the homogeneous and dynamic of these 2 years of production speakers, and at best the same bass. But 5000€ "crappy" speakers ... the used market is more appealing to me, maybe I'm wrong.
    The only one I can listen to soon are the Klipsch, will tell you guys so I can tell if they are that "big step up in all aspects" or not. Everyone is welcome home to listen to what I got, enjoy some music and a coffee, so you can know =) Tours in the Loire Valley, you're all welcome!

    edit:
    Hi PBB,
    no problem, but let me reformulate: I listen to many styles and that includes metal, some very rich and fantastic music (I would recommend you to try ;)) which I also enjoy and need to be played well. After all they say that rap is music! ;) The B&W DM4 were fantastic with a harpsichord but with heavier music they were out of control. So they are not that great speakers. Hope this helps targeting.
     
  14. RJohan

    RJohan pfm Member

    Yeah, check out the JBL 3677. They are cinema speakers (not 'home' cinema, real theater cinemas), but I know people that use them for HiFi with very good results. A little bit of K2 performance on a shandy budget, they cost less than £1000 a piece!!!

    Ok, I'm a JBL fanatic, living with 4331B's myself, but I've had everything from LS3/5a's to von Schweikert plus Linn and Naim speakers and what not. I'm not planning to leave the JBL camp.
     
  15. Malefoda

    Malefoda Well-Known Member

    "A little bit of K2 performance on a shandy budget"
    Well I can't ignore that!
    "Ok, I'm a JBL fanatic"
    Oh my so I need to take it with a pinch of salt then ;)
     
  16. Paul Burke

    Paul Burke pfm Member

    Agree with get some built or build your own, it’s very rewarding. I do a few of my own, and happy to custom build, done both active and passive, both have their pros and cons.

    Only done one kit speaker, the carerra, total cost is about £1k, a similar speaker done to those specs, very similar actually, but smaller is the brigadier mu2, which I’ve heard a few times, but as it’s commercial it’ll set you back £5k. So that’s roughly an example of cost difference between building & buying, though doesn’t include the tools, skill set and time required ofc

    So yes, resale of kit or diy is really poor tbh, but the cost in the first place is much cheaper
     
  17. RJohan

    RJohan pfm Member

    Actually I did a quick calculation on the drivers in the 3677, it seems the boxes are meant to be used with subs under 80 Hz, or so. You do want room shaking low bass with 15 inchers, at least, I do.
     
  18. DRSBest

    DRSBest Member

    I owned B&W 800D2 and would be careful before buying them if you like rock music. I thought they were great on well recorded music but hard work in my room with poor recordings and especially rock. For me this genre is often the least satisfying with modern designs as the move towards a clean and analytical sound can be very fatiguing. One other option to consider is to add a good quality sub. I find this route more satisfying for me. It means I don’t have to listen as loud to get the pressurised feeling of a live gig. I own ATC actives I would def advise listening to them before you buy.
     
  19. Malefoda

    Malefoda Well-Known Member

    RJohan my actual speakers are 40Hz/18kHz +/-3dB, so I see a "wtf?!" 45Hz/12 kHz (- 3 dB) (what does that mean? +/-1.5db?) on the JBL 3677? Well as I am in an apartment the sub can be a problem. And it takes room and the room itself dictates where it must be set up.
    And DRSBest also advertise for a sub. I know few about that "third" speaker setup but the fact my stereo amp does not have a sub output. If you go through another amp to filter frequencies then I'll degrade the signal, won't I? Ok on the B&W 800D2 warning but I'm not sure to understand (sorry english is not my native language, I may misconstrue some of your post guys) what you said about ATCs, I can be badly surprised of how they sound so listen to them before buying? Or that before buying anything else I should leave a chance to the ATCs as I can be seduced? I'm afraid it's almost impossible in France, but with the seller if I ever find one...
    Thanks!
     
  20. Dave***t

    Dave***t pfm Member

    IME one important bit of advice to bear in mind is: never be swayed by what people who don’t listen to extreme metal themselves think about the kinds of speakers extreme metal sounds best on!

    A lot of stuff can turn into a piercing trebly mess on forward-sounding speakers. For example on the title track on Osculum Obscenum, it can become impossible to hear the notes. With a high proportion of recordings, the recording sounds aggressive already, and you don’t need to accentuate it with bright speakers. Just think - nearly all the decent metal albums were made with valves.

    Not heard the models mostly mentioned here myself, but I’d favour something that has the right kind of lower mid weight to carry off the guitar tone of Like An Everflowing Stream, and doesn’t turn Det Som Engang Var or A Blaze In The Northern Sky into static. That may well point to speakers that are generally considered on the warmer side, rather than punchy or aggressive.
     

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