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Andrew Jones of Elac discusses speaker design compromises

Discussion in 'audio' started by Stunsworth, Mar 16, 2018.

  1. Stunsworth

    Stunsworth pfm Member

    I found this interesting - especially the bit where he’s talking about voice coil temperatures (and their effects on dynamics)...

    ThELiZ, darrenyeats, Jonathan and 3 others like this.
  2. krenzler

    krenzler pfm Member

    Andrew Jones at RMAF.

  3. htsdgrvs

    htsdgrvs pfm Member

    I've read some of Andrew's postings at other forums and he strikes me as someone who is just remarkably free of bullshit. He's clearly a gifted engineer, but he's completely honest when he explains that building a set of $300 speakers introduces certain limitations and is willing to explain why he made certain tradeoffs over others.
  4. drummerman

    drummerman pfm Member

    Perhaps I have just seen to many interviews with him, perhaps he strikes me as a HiFi mercenary but he gets on my nerves.

    Clearly all the above are non-reasons.

    Perhaps I just have issues :)
    busb likes this.
  5. audiopile

    audiopile pfm Member

    Full disclosure - I own (and very much enjoy) a set of Jones's /ELAC AF-61 speakers. Guess that makes me a bit prejudiced in his favor. But as somebody who probably replaced their own weight in tweeters in customers speakers over the years and obviously had a less than perfect understanding of what was going on -both clips are interesting -but the first clip on thermal issues was a education. It's the trouble with being self taught- frequently -even 50 years + into a subject -something raises up and gobsmacks ya! But it isn't a unpleasant experience.
  6. Fatmarley

    Fatmarley pfm Member

    Thought the first video was very informative and with speaker design being my hobby, I enjoyed it too.

    I recently broke-in two different 5" midbass drivers with them just sat on a table with a 20hz signal put through them, and with enough power to see the cones moving quite wildly. One driver magnet was too hot to touch but the driver survived with no damage (amp was red hot too).
  7. jologstyme

    jologstyme Member

    I totally agree with his views on active speakers in that RMAF 2018 video. I guess I fall into his classification of audiophiles who are into plug-and-play hi-fi. I've learned not to be the tweaking type who always searches for the "endgame" upgrade and just be happy with what I have.
  8. Purité Audio

    Purité Audio Trade: Purite Audio

    That is not a good idea, we’re you deliberately trying to break the drivers?
  9. Fatmarley

    Fatmarley pfm Member

    No, it's how I always break-in new drivers but I obviously went a bit over the top with the volume control.
  10. ssimon

    ssimon pfm Member

    "No Bullshit" as has already been said.
    It consolidated my view of why, there is not a requirement today for quality sound.
    As he said very few people today listen to acoustic music .When they do, and hear their favourite artist sing "unplugged", they often prefer it,
    without all the "mess" in the backgound.
    If the electonic production is poor, why bother to accurately reproduce it?
  11. sunbeamgls

    sunbeamgls pfm Member

    There is much fabulously produced, complex and layered electronic music about. Often it is intricate and subtle. Worth having a good system to enjoy it.
    Tin, Fatmarley and jologstyme like this.
  12. yuckyamson

    yuckyamson pfm Member

    I'm curious....how do you like them? What is in the rest of your system? What were you coming from and what other models did you consider? Thanks.
  13. audiopile

    audiopile pfm Member

    I was of course disappointed that SWMBO'd noticed they had replaced the LS-50's . I've had AF-61's for awhile now -what I really like about them is a really pleasant tweeter/midrange -less hard sounding than the LS-50's -even better imaging ( a good trick when comparing to LS-50's)and then accompanying bass which is tight ,detailed and seems to just show up when it's supposed to be there -no flop ,flap or boom. For the size of the cabinet -not deep,deep, subterranean bass response -just dam near perfect for what's on the turntable tonight - Bert Jansch "Just a Simple Soul". That's playing thru a Ortofon Quintet Black S ,SME IV , mostly stock SL-1200/II ,Parasound JC-3jr,Bryston BP-25,Bryston 4BST -onto the Adante AF-61's. TV is hooked in - Benchmark DAC-3 HGC -fed by Rotel 975 player and used to switch a couple of different phono pre-amps into the BP-25. Tables/pre-amps vary a bit - currently the Decca Gold is in ciggie stinkin JVC-QL-y5f - onto a Lounge Audio LCR III (some sorta weird synergy with these three in combo). Have a Sweet Vinyl SC-2 hooked into the tape monitor of the BP-25 ,Sony XDR-F1HD for a tuner -a Bluesound Node 2 that I don't use a lot too. The ELAC AF-61 is far and away the most expensive speaker I've ever owned , the first new speaker I've owned since Rectilinear VI's in 1970 something -like most former audio techs I usually buy used (prefer something with cosmetic damage cheap) - had ordered AS-61's - they weren't showing up at my dealers -so switched to the AF-61 (which I had never heard :) .
  14. audiopile

    audiopile pfm Member

    Maybe the whole point of my latest post is that while I would never recommend buying speakers unheard (Not the only time in my life my strongest recommendation is : DON't do as I do.) . But based on demonstrated lengthy track records - I have a short list of designers I respect and pay attention to : Nelson Pass ,Siegfried Linkwitz , John Curl,added Andrew Jones to the list recently (he's the "kid" of this group) -based mainly on being impressed with his value designing for the BOTL ELAC speaker line -went back and read reviews of his ( hmm -how to put this??) less affordable efforts and read /saw interviews with him. Despite repairing customers speakers for a few decades - I always seemed to learn something from a Jones interview. The implications of the real world thermal life of a speaker described in the first clip are still rattling around in my wetware - most of the speakers that have really impressed me over the decades used very simple first order crossovers -most being 6 or 8" two ways. Have known two skilled professional X-over designers in my life -I'm even more impressed by their talents because of the first clip.

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