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Bi wire options

Discussion in 'audio' started by Darren L, Aug 4, 2019.

  1. The Chronicals

    The Chronicals Disruptor

    Ignorance, the root and stem of all evil.

    Plato
     
  2. Arkless Electronics

    Arkless Electronics Trade: Amp design and repairs.

    I'm glad to see we agree:p When it comes to such basics though ignorance of even Ohm's Law is a biggy:D
     
    Emlin likes this.
  3. The Chronicals

    The Chronicals Disruptor

    “The loneliest moment in someone’s life is when they are watching their whole world fall apart, and all they can do is stare blankly and discuss Ohms law on an internet forum, daily.”

    ― F. Scott Fitzgerald + The Chronicals
     
  4. Mr Pig

    Mr Pig ^'- -'^

    I'm not saying the laws of physics don't apply. What I am saying is that you don't know all there is to know about them. You just seem to think you do.
     
    The Chronicals likes this.
  5. chartz

    chartz pfm Member

    If you can understand French, this is a must-watch. Subs are available in English.

     
  6. The Chronicals

    The Chronicals Disruptor

    This is much better.

     
  7. Arkless Electronics

    Arkless Electronics Trade: Amp design and repairs.

    It's not really a myth... there is theory behind it (which no doubt the usual suspects above have no inkling about). It's more a case of whether or not it makes a big enough difference to be worthwhile, or indeed any audible difference.

    It's got little chance of working as hoped unless the amp has very low output impedance for a start and then will be very much effected by things such as speaker cable resistance, the speakers drive units and the crossover design.

    My post #19 contains a gem of a tip which I spent half an hour deciding whether or not to share... ;) As with anything in engineering there are down sides as well as advantages but it extends the concept of bi-wiring a bit and makes it far more likely to electrically "do what's on the tin". Relatively thin speaker cable could of course provide the 0.1R of resistance but using actual resistors gives more control over tolerances and allows for some experimenting...
     
  8. MikeMA

    MikeMA pfm Member

    Certainly my experience with the two sets of bi-wireable speakers (Harbeths and Kefs) I have owned. No matter how I connected them they sounded the same, and having spent good money on dedicated bi-wire cables and jumpers &c, my expectations were fully biased in favour of hearing a difference. There was none. I was deeply disappointed but soon got over it.
     
  9. The Chronicals

    The Chronicals Disruptor

    Small differences are harder to hear the older the ear gets..
     
    Thorn likes this.
  10. Arkless Electronics

    Arkless Electronics Trade: Amp design and repairs.

    Indeed with the very short, thick wires used as jumpers, or even sometime metal bars between terminals, the resistance is very, very low indeed and therefore there is no voltage drop and no difference to the sound. The same obviously applies to which terminals the speaker cables are connected to when jumpers are in place.
    If there are loose or dirty connections causing resistance then this could have an effect but we must assume correct use and application of the jumpers etc.

    If the audiophools think the resistance of a 2" copper bar can effect the sound then it must be ruined by the PCB tracks of the crossover!:D
     
    Emlin likes this.
  11. The Chronicals

    The Chronicals Disruptor

    The will is deaf and hears no heedful friends.

    William Shakespeare
     
  12. matt j

    matt j pfm Member

    Honestly, Jez, there are zero circumstances where you will change their mind, you're best just leaving them to it and letting them get on with it.
     
  13. The Chronicals

    The Chronicals Disruptor

    While people can hear, there is no reason too, other than to purposefully choose not to hear, and that would be sad.
     
  14. Arkless Electronics

    Arkless Electronics Trade: Amp design and repairs.

    Oh I'm well aware there are people on here who would say day was night if they thought it would assist their trolling but the actual facts of the matter may be interesting to many other people and help them side step mumbo jumbo and "fake news" when they see it.
     
  15. matt j

    matt j pfm Member

    I don't think so, but fair enough.

    It's no different to trying to convince a god botherer that there's no such thing as sky ghosts, mission impossible.
     
  16. chartz

    chartz pfm Member

    I write in two other hi-fi French fora where we don’t believe in this cable nonsense.
    Here, opinions are divided. Perhaps a good thing.
     
  17. Arkless Electronics

    Arkless Electronics Trade: Amp design and repairs.

    Well indeed yes hence my comment that it "may be interesting to many other people", ie ones that come along and read this sort of thread with an open mind.... there's enough fake news around without neophytes being told that Ohm's Law doesn't apply to hi fi!
     
  18. Mr Pig

    Mr Pig ^'- -'^

    The OP said he plugged his cable into alternate posts and heard a difference. I've done exactly the same thing on multiple pairs of speakers. It's not difficult for other people with bi-wireable speakers to try it for themselves and make up their own minds. Personally, I think that's what they should do.
     
    The Chronicals likes this.
  19. Arkless Electronics

    Arkless Electronics Trade: Amp design and repairs.

    I'll be interested to see if anyone tries my idea in post #19... It takes bi-wiring a little nearer bi-amping in some ways by providing greater isolation between the back EMF's from the drive units and thereby reducing intermodulation between them;)

    I've not tried it myself and I make no claims whatsoever as to it's subjective effect (it will vary a lot depending on the equipment in use) but if we were to say that bi-wiring may have beneficial effects then this should enhance it further...
     
  20. chartz

    chartz pfm Member

    Those, like myself, who did try it many years ago (nearly 30 years ago for me, first time) and heard no improvement whatsoever just have nothing else to bring than a no-nonsense approach to cabling.
    Peter Walker was so right.

    I have such resistors and three pairs of biwireable speakers. I’ll give it a go then.
     
    Emlin and Arkless Electronics like this.

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