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Boiler Question.

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Mullardman, Jun 8, 2017.

  1. Mullardman

    Mullardman Moderately extreme...

    That's cheered me up no end!

    I've got a new back to the wall pan and a concealed cistern with the pneumatic 2 stage actuator thingy.

    I've just removed a massive 'boxing' from around the soil stack which is in the corner of the loo. About 30cms plus each side and all for a 4"/110..or whatever pipe. So big it actually prevents the loo from being fitted central in what little space there is.

    Next plan is to cut the stack off and fit a durgo or similar air admittance valve.

    I can then get rid of the vent as it goes into loft. Undecided yet whether to secure it in the loft space ( to stop it rocking..I can't see any clips anywhere) and cap it off top and bottom and leave in sutu, or to get roofer out to pull it out and make good. I'm not going on the roof with my back.. and knee, and ticker.. and vertigo.. :eek:

    Anyway, then a bit of panelling with the cistern behind and the remaining soil stack hidden and the loo backing up to it.

    Even thought about leaving the old overflow in place to let a bit of air into the space should the valve need it.. though unlikely in this house with the draughty old floorboards etc. Can always cover the internal end with old tights or summat to stop indsects getting in.

    Top and bottom of flush pipe are both push fit. Even the mains inlet elbow is push fit ( allegedly) and the cistern has internal overflow.

    What could possibly go wrong....:rolleyes:

    Only thing I have to decide is exactly which outlet coupling to get for the pan. I'm strongly drawn to a decent flexi type.

    Mull
     
  2. steveledzep

    steveledzep pfm Member

    Didn't realise you were getting two ;).

    Sounds like you're moving the pan a wee bit sideways to centre it now the large boxing has gone. Yes, flexi connector is ideal.
     
  3. twotone

    twotone pfm Member

    Best of luck yer a better man than I am gungadin :D

    Aye buy a McAlpine flexi pan connector or two or even three and just return the ones you don't use, don't buy the cheaper ones the McAlpine ones are the best out there and get a long one 450mm I think or 600mm which will allow you to pull the pan out easily and fit it easily.

    Think McAlpine now do a flexi connector the goes right over the horn of the pan rather than a push fit end, looked perfect for jobs like yours you just fit it to the pan then push the other end into the soil pipe.

    Screwfix do McAlpine and any good plumber's merchant.

    I wouldn't use anything else but McAlpine for traps and waste fittings and flexi pan connectors. They're actually just down the road from me in Thornliebank and the factory is in Hillington which is about five miles away.

    Tony
     
  4. Mullardman

    Mullardman Moderately extreme...

    Yep, the pan needs to move a few inches to the right. It has an outflow at basically the same height as the old one, but horizontal.. whereas the old one is angled downward and through a sleeve into a solvent weld elbow, a few inches of pipe and into what looks like a push fit T on the stack. So a flexi seems easiest. Either into the stub end after I cut the old elbow off, or direct into the stack if the 'apparent' push fit will come out.

    All good fun.. :D
     
  5. misterdog

    misterdog Not the canine kind

    Plenty of bleach first, though it makes little difference other than making you feel better.
     
  6. Mullardman

    Mullardman Moderately extreme...

    Bleach is good.
     
  7. misterdog

    misterdog Not the canine kind

    Just drink plenty of water with it..
     
  8. misterdog

    misterdog Not the canine kind

    I still have a victorian cistern with a push plunger which operates a bicycle chain over a pulley to raise the syphon diaphragm..

    I see plumbing as a challenge of ingenuity.

    Around 35 years ago when Avacado suites where all the rage a dentist mate wanted a victorian suite fitting. He went to the salvage yard and acquired some bath taps, apparently from the Bishops house.

    The tail threads were not 3/4BSP but around 1.1/8" back in the back (sic) in the day tap manufacturers used to make there own threads...

    I had to have special adapters made and new tap washers from an old belt..
     
  9. Ellenor

    Ellenor pfm Member

    Make sure you can access the Durgo valve in future otherwise when it stinks your bathroom out in the future you won't be able to replace it. Also get the roof made good properly.
    Does your drain have any other open vent? You used to have to have the top of the drain vented to atmosphere with any other branches further down with Durgo valves if desired.
     
  10. MikeMA

    MikeMA pfm Member

    Mull,

    I did a similar job a while back in our bathroom.

    I found the trickiest part was not the actual plumbing - you seem to have that pretty well sorted, at least in theory! - but planning and creating easily removable access panels to the concealed cistern etc . This is even more of a pain if you intend tiling and want to avoid unsightly cuts.

    I made sure my panels were multiples of the tile size we used and fixed them with concealed magnetic catches so they can be pinged out when necessary. Joints can be filled in with silicone mastic to mach the grouting.

    I have some empathy with you as Mrs MikeMA is currently angling for a new kitchen, which is giving me sleepless nights! Good luck!

    Mike
     
  11. Mullardman

    Mullardman Moderately extreme...

    Ellenor..

    This whole venting business seems to be a bit of a black art. All sorts of variations on the 'regs' quoted online and dished out verbally.

    I'm 4th in a short row of 6 detached 1970s houses all on the same drain. Each have at least one, sometimes two manholes to the rear of the house. All houses were identical and all had the same soil stack running down from the roof vent, through the corner of a small loo and then on down through the corner of the dining room and out under the wall to the drain.
    I'm told that so long as at least 1 in 5 houses have a vent to atmosphere it's OK. At present, I'm the only one ( about to be) without a vent.
    I believe most people have knocked the originally separate loo/bathroom into one. (This would be my preferred option, but it's not allowed .. :rolleyes: ..) So the vent in the loo corner becomes literally a 'big' issue, which is why I want it gone.

    If I was really convinced it needed to stay I could cover it with a much less bulky enclosure, but that would be a compromise. The original enclosure really was OTT. Sodding great foot wide lumps of 1" thick ply faced particle board that weighs a ton. All nailed into 3x2 and that in turn nailed direct into breeze block or studding with 4" nails! If I was doing it now I'd use plasterboard and adhesive.

    I obviously plan to have the Durgo or whatever accessible. It is basically next to the cistern for the loo and will be behind the same removable panel, so that both it, the cistern and the rear of the pan can be accessed for maintenance.

    If I have to wait for a roofer.. I can put gaffer tape over the lower cut end of the vent to prevent rain ingress temporarily. Either that or fill it with expanding foam, or just tape a container to it. It has a cage over the top so rain probably doesn't get in too much anyway.

    Mike... concealed magnetic catches!! Sound like a great idea. I'll look them up. I've been pondering how to make a removable panel without visible fixings. Mirror screws etc., used to be quite cool but nowadays they just look dated. and amateurish. I won't be tiling, but am looking at some sort of washable panelling.. melamine coated or somesuch. SWMBO will no doubt decide the finish and colour.

    Mull
     
  12. MikeMA

    MikeMA pfm Member

    Mull,

    Sorry, I should have said, they are just standard magnetic door catches. You know the things....they come in various sizes/strengths. It was a plumber who gave me the idea of using them to create concealed fixings. They work well.

    Another thing...If you've not already thought of it, I'd suggest fitting an isolating valves to the cistern inlet so you can turn the water off if you need to work on it without having to turn off/drain down the rest of the system, depending on how its configured.

    Mike
     
  13. sam_cat

    sam_cat C'est Crounchifique!

    Why not add some rails for towels above the radiator? Radiators are much better at giving heat the towel radiators, so adding some rails above the existing rad will give a better end result for less money and less hassle.
    Just dont be tempted to hang the towels on the radiator, doesnt help the heat convection
     
  14. Mullardman

    Mullardman Moderately extreme...

    Yep.. I found them. Know the type you mean. Pack of ten for a few quid. Seem ideal so thanks.

    Cistern has an internal isolator, but I will be fitting an external one too. I fit them to everything! I'm doing an external tap for garden watering etc. (When the loo is done..) That will also have an isolator inside so it can be drained for winter. The standard screw slot type are ok for short term isolation while you do work, but for over wintering I'm not sure I'd trust them as they can leak. So I'll be using a quarter turn ball valve. Couple of quid more but work well.
     
  15. Mullardman

    Mullardman Moderately extreme...


    Bit late now. New rail in place. Working well.. ;)
     
  16. twotone

    twotone pfm Member

    Personally I wouldn't do away with the vent pipe but if you do make sure that you fit the Durgo valve above the spillover level of the cistern/overflow level of washbasin.


    The vent pipe is there for a reason btw.

    Tony
     
  17. Mullardman

    Mullardman Moderately extreme...

    This is what I meant by my 'black art' reference to Ellenor above. I cn't get a definitive answer.

    I understand the reason for the vent. AIUI, it allows for venting of foul and possibly flammable gases to atmosphere. It also allows air into the stack to prevent a vacuum (on flushing) from pulling water out of traps on other installations connected to the stack.

    Also, assuming no major blockages etc, all of the homes in our little row are all venting the same local drain via their stack vents.

    So. If (hypothetically) I was to cap off the vent totally, above flood level, I would likely pull all the water out of the bath/shower and washbasin traps. AIUI, I could put smaller AAVs on each of those to prevent the problem.

    So.. If I use a good quality AAV on the stack more than 200mm above the flood level.. I really can't see the problem. Of course, it is always possible that the AAV could go faulty.. but as they say. 'shit happens' and if they were that bad surely nobody would use them. or they would be banned?

    Mull
     
  18. twotone

    twotone pfm Member

    There's nothing wrong with a well installed durgo valve however sometimes the valve sticks and you can get problems but if there's a vent then use it that's what it's for.

    It's the same with saniflos they're absolutely fine until they need replaced, which they do have to be regularly and, they allow the installation of a toilet or complete bathroom when it's well nigh impossible for logistical or financial reasons but I would much rather put in a proper soil vent in my own house (which I did at considerable materials cost) cause at the end of the day saniflos are simply a very very poor alternative to a decent set up.

    Btw in your case surely it's cheaper to leave the soil pipe down in situ cause you won't need a roofer or have to buy a durgo valve and alter the soil pipe, no?
     
  19. Mullardman

    Mullardman Moderately extreme...

    Yes it's cheaper but it is an ugly and huge intrusion into a very small space, which is why I'm considering getting rid.
     
  20. twotone

    twotone pfm Member

    Completely understand btw.
     

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