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Discussion in 'off topic' started by Fatmarley, Nov 2, 2019.

  1. Fatmarley

    Fatmarley pfm Member

    One thing i've noticed about my most vocal right-wing freinds on Facebook is they all have one thing in common - Strong beliefs in either Religion, conspiracy thoeries, horoscopes / fortune telling etc. To me this suggests they are either easily suceptical to brainwashing or a bit gullible (or have mental heath issues).

    Psychology isn't something i'm know much about, but i'd imagine we all have to be susceptible to brainwashing (brainwashing is basically an ability to learn (even if the knowledge we ingest is wrong)). For example, a young child will take something off another without knowing we consider that stealing - So our natural instinct is to take off others, but we are tought not to do it by our parents (assuming we have good parents). and so we learn not to do it. If a bad parent tells us it's right to steal, we will end up a thief. Yes i'm sure some will work out that their parents were full of s**t but obviously not all.

    I don't believe intelligence has much bearing on how suseptical to we are to brainwashing because i've met some incredibly intelligent people who believe in religion (there's no hard evidence that God is real, so religion can that only ever be a belief and not a true fact). That shows that some intelligent people will ignore facts over beliefs. Had an interesting chat to a Tory voting religious professor the other day. Can't say I understood much of what he said because of my little brain, but what I did understand
    was very interesting. Someone who is very intintelligent, BUT is fed the wrong information, will remember the wrong information better than someone who is less intelligent and so will be able to argue their case better than someone with less intelligence, even though they are wrong. I know this observation is obvious, but at one time I thought the more intelligent you were, the more likely you were to be right (I suppose that's right to a certain extent because you'd be more likely to be able to work out if there are any contraditions in what you've learnt). It was only from years of using social media (mostly reading arguments on pinkfish) that I realised that this is not the case. Some very clever people say some obviously very stupid things.

    I suppose the real reason for this thread is to understand why often intelligent people will call Jeremy corbyn things like "Comrade Corbyn" when it's obvious to anyone who's seen all the smears that it's made up rubbish. People on my Facebook calling him a "traitor" because of smears about him being freinds with the IRA. And when my own mother said she doesn't trust him, and to strengthen her argument said 'she knows people' because she spent years working behind the bar of a pub!
    How can you not trust someone you don't know? That would only be possible if you believe the lies and smears from the media, Not because you know them, because you don't (fact).
    I think the first derogatory mention of JC was Years ago when a good freind (old PMF Member I made freinds with) sent me a joke meme that suggested JC was like the old guy out of that old comedy show 'Steptoe and Son'. I didn't find it funny and it's obvious he was brainwashed which I found disappointing because I like him a lot (I ignored it to stay freinds).

    The more I learn about politics, the more I wish I was brainwashed like everyone else I know, because it has caused me to fall out with my family and good freinds, and although I strongly believe i'm right (Tories are self serving NHS destroying bastards), I know a lot of others think i'm bonkers. I can't change my beliefs (maybe i'm brainwashed by PFM?) and this is causing me depression because i'm now the odd one out and i'm being ignored by my own family because of it (I can't help but argue when a political subjects comes up).

    Like usual I'll probably regrete posting this thread in the morning and will ask for it to be deleted. I've had loads to drink and i'm ranting - sorry...
  2. Fatmarley

    Fatmarley pfm Member

  3. Fatmarley

    Fatmarley pfm Member

    Last edited: Nov 2, 2019
  4. Rob998

    Rob998 Scimmia Nordoccidentale


    Let it live, stream of consciousness at its best.
    Fatmarley, rbrown and Durmbo like this.
  5. kendo

    kendo Prussian bot

    Read it again when sober FM, there's nothing much wrong with your post.
    Sue Pertwee-Tyr and Fatmarley like this.
  6. PaulMB

    PaulMB pfm Member

    Bear in mind that your own opinions are, by definition or objectively, no more valuable or correct or realistic than those of anyone else. You can argue about specific points, or general impressions, but dismissing as "brainwashed" those who do not like or trust Corbyn is just silly, pretentious and pointless.
    Cheese, blossomchris and I.D.C. like this.
  7. PaulMB

    PaulMB pfm Member

    And certainly not worth falling out with friends or family over.
    I.D.C. likes this.
  8. Fatmarley

    Fatmarley pfm Member

    I was just writing something similar before you posted. Either I'm wrong or my friends and family are, but I've written it from my point of view and how I see it.

    Just read my post again and I did admit that it could be me who's brainwashed. I like to try and look at things from other people s perspective.
    I.D.C. likes this.
  9. Fatmarley

    Fatmarley pfm Member

    You're right but I can't help it.
  10. deanf

    deanf pfm Member

    Wait 'til you really sober up in a few hours.

    Fatmarley likes this.
  11. deanf

    deanf pfm Member

    It’s difficult to do do justice to an OP that goes off on so many tangents (I mean that in a nice way), but that shouldn’t take away from the fact it’s an interesting post and people can take out what they want to.

    My own Facebook,page, I must’ve blocked nearly half of my friends recently due to them posting rabid political crap, but a quick glance now and it's still 80% politics of one persuasion or another. Despite using it to buy a car last week I rarely use it, and think I shall stay off it for the next six weeks!

    The point you make about critical thinking by intelligent or otherwise people would take an essays to talk about. Globalisation, instant access to information and the expectation of an immediate answer to everything has dumbed down politics. We're quite political on pfm - on topic in the off-topic room if you like, - but most people aren’t. They don’t want to know how the bins get emptied, they just want them emptied.

    Personally I try to separate people from politics, despite the former being why I do the latter. If I disliked everyone who had a different view to my own I wouldn’t like anyone- myself included sometimes [work that one out!]. There's a line I cannot cross, not 'cos I don’t want to but because when I see people on the other it I can’t see past it. Racism for example. Brexit isn’t it. Nor is privatisation, the free market economy or capitalism. Selfishness and hatred are though.

    Most of us a pre-programmed to see the best in people, if we get divided we will get conquered. Don’t let it happen. The general public (not just in UK) don’t like the politicians answer anymore, and this is why some in politics, media and power have thrived. It’s easy being spoon fed the answers without having to think. People obviously like it though.

    "Bullshit is bullshit, it just goes by different names" (Weller, 1982).
    Fatmarley and PsB like this.
  12. Fatmarley

    Fatmarley pfm Member

    Oh, the song in post #2 makes me laugh becuase I was driving in my car with my son when this song came on the radio and my son said "this song is about you daddy" - I did actually laugh at the time because he's right, all my friends are dead...
  13. Fatmarley

    Fatmarley pfm Member

    I think the reason I feel so strongly about things is because I love my children more than anything in the world and i'm scared that we are going to lose the NHS. I don't want to get too personal but I live in a house full of people with problems (some physical but mostly mental) and their protection by the state is dwindling away. But losing the NHS is the thing that scares me the most and I kind of feel that anyone who disagrees with me is a threat to my childrens future (even if it's my own family).

    A young girl came round here the other day and I can honestly say i've never met anyone who outwardly sufferers from axiety as much as her. Her voice breaks when she talks, she sweats terrible even though she's a slim as anything, but her own mother doesn't believe in all that rubbish apparently, and nor do my family either. I'm sure their reply would be, she just needs a good kick up the arse.

    What about me? Well, put it this way, to do Scalford I had to take Diazepam and hide in the corner...
  14. Joe Hutch

    Joe Hutch Mate of the bloke

    All my family and friends are to some extent left-wingers and all are Remainers, so it's not like I'm about to fall out with any of them over politics. When my parents were alive, religion and sex were the 'no go' areas; it was assumed (correctly) that none of us was ever going to vote Tory, and that we all supported the NHS and greater social equality. My mother was a very left-wing socialist, and if my father disagreed with her, he was wise enough to keep his mouth shut.
    Fatmarley, I.D.C. and Rob998 like this.
  15. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    When I was 16, I picked up a leaflet the local Tory council candidate had put through the letter box and naively said in front of my mother “this sounds very sensible”. She gave me a filthy look and decades later remembered it and announced “you were going to vote for a Tory”. About the same age, when I was a schoolboy, I was in seeing the GP- a smashing man who’d delivered me as a baby at home. He went off on a rant about Harold Wilson! These days of course, I’d have reported him to the Health Board and sued for emotional distress...
  16. Ian G

    Ian G Active Member

    There are better ways to cope with anxiety than over use of alcohol. There are better ways to treat anxiety than western medicine via the NHS.
    The problem is very few people are willing to pay out of their own pocket for any health issues. Some beliefs are not due to brainwashing rather
    personal experience. JC is a danger to society.
    Rcook likes this.
  17. Bob McC

    Bob McC Living the life of Riley

    If you must post when pissed,
    use a spell checker.
    Fatmarley likes this.
  18. Bob McC

    Bob McC Living the life of Riley

    a perfect example of fatmarley’s point...
  19. Philim

    Philim pfm Member

    Hi FM
    Your post is an interesting read as to me it says a lot about what is wrong with politics on both sides of the fence.
    Summarising it basically asks the question how are other people so wrong - surely other people must be brainwashed to not hold the same beliefs as me? I think that is a concerning conclusion when you are writing a thread about brainwashing and in some ways identifying your beliefs as morally superior to those who don't hold your beliefs.
    You ask how can you not like someone you don't know? yet you box half the population up into religious, brainwashed, self serving bastards! I am also assuming you don't know Boris Johnson or Jo Swinson or Nigel farage and yet I suspect you have a very clear opinion of them that may or may not be correct based upon the media you read.
    I am not a fan of JC as is clear from my exclusion from these sort of threads. Does that make me brainwashed? I hope not but maybe I am. I hope I judge each leader through a scope of understanding that whatever you see is unlikely to be the whole truth but somewhere near. I doubt 75% the eIectorate, Jo Swinson, and half the plp are wrong about JC and those close to him when comparing their own views on what they want to what JC offers. Equally I suspect the many views about bojo being self important, only out for himself are not either. I make my decision on voting on my own personal feeling of what is right for the country at the time.
    We all identify with those parties that fit with our views on life. That doesn't make either of us wrong just different opinions - hopefully to give balanced outcomes although as history shows and is happening today that doesn't always work.
    If everybody was single minded life would be very dull and not so good for society ultimately I think.
    Funk, eternumviti and blossomchris like this.
  20. I.D.C.

    I.D.C. pfm Member

    I heard my father once that made me think and taken. They are wise words- Never judge people to be like yourself or you will be disappointed.
    Fatmarley likes this.

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