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Buying a used car - VAG 1.0 and 1.2 TSI petrol engines

Discussion in 'off topic' started by nicetone, May 14, 2019.

  1. lordsummit

    lordsummit Moderator

    VTEC is incredibly reliable. It is essentially an oil pressure switch, and when the oil pressure gets high enough, it changes the cam angle. Honda used to claim and may even still do that no engine failure has ever been the result of VTEC. My most reliable ever car was a 2.4 VTEC Accord estate. Looked it up in the MOT checker and it was still going at 170000 miles. Sometimes I wish I still had it. It was awesome.
  2. davidsrsb

    davidsrsb pfm Member

    Toyota keep their slightly dull but unbreakable reputation

    In my case, I do very low mileage, but an awful lot of engine time because I crawl home every night taking 1 hour to do a 10 minute journey, this is very stressful on engine mountings, cooling and the auto gearbox
    nicetone likes this.
  3. stevec67

    stevec67 pfm Member

    The only car I have seen with "too low" mileage was my mother's Ka, which did 35k miles or so in 9 years. About 3-4000 miles pa. It sufffered from corrosion of the brake discs because it was standing, also things like handbrake mechanisms need freeing off because they don't move very often. I have also encountered (my own elderly Mazda MX5) things just stopping working and not being repaired because if you aren't using it then a minor fault isn't a show stopper. If you use a car regukarly you get it fixed because (a) it's a pain, (b) it will let you down and force you to fix it or (c) the faulty item starts working again because it's being used.

    My mum's 9 year old Ka was not worth any more than a similar car with twice the mileage or more, because it was rotten. The engine was great, but as Tony has said above, cars are about more than an engine. Cars don't wear out like they used to, 150k is normal these days. 120k is easy. Are you ever going to get there?

    Oh, and do stop buggering about worrying about fuel economy. It makes no difference to you, and even if they raise tax on fuel (they won't, they will do it via VED) it won't make a difference. It's a fraction of your true costs. I've lost count of the number of people I know, especially those over 55, who spend a fortune buying a new car to save 5mpg on a car that does 6 or 7k miles pa. Why? It's ridiculous.
  4. SteveG

    SteveG pfm Member

    One of mine was a VTEC Accord Estate. It was a lovely car and I kept it for over 10 years. If I could remember the registration I'd check but it would not surprise me if it's still going.

    I tend to keep cars I like for a while - my Mazda CX-7 is 12 this year.
  5. Tony Lockhart

    Tony Lockhart pfm Member

    Yep. Spend thousands every three years because a newer one does a few mpg more. So so silly.

    By the way, for balance, my old VWs, Bora (1.9 TDi 130bhp) and Mk4 1.8 turbo GTi 150bhp are still going strong. Serviced annually, both on about 220,000 miles. No major failures, just worn suspension etc as anyone would expect.
  6. SteveG

    SteveG pfm Member

    Just had that conversation with my wife. Our CX-7 has now become our most used car now we have a dog. It's very poor on fuel (20mpg on a good day) and expensive to tax (it's in the highest band). Replacing it with anything I'm even slightly interested in 2nd hand is going to be at least another £20K though (and that's for a 2nd hand car) and it'll still be slower and less fun - and £20K pays for a lot of fuel!
    Tony Lockhart likes this.
  7. nicetone

    nicetone pfm Member

    Errr? Not me Steve.:) This started between Ali T and Tony Lockhart, posts 9 and 10, after you first mentioned fuel economy in post 5. Then it rumbled on in posts 14 (you), 38 (Ali), 41 (Tony), 42 (you), 43 (Tuga), 44 (you), 45 (Tuga), 46 (Tony).:D I only came in once, in post 54 responding to Tony, agreeing that for my current low mileage fuel economy was no longer a consideration but adding why I still nonetheless took it into account. That’s hardly ‘buggering about and worrying‘.:)

    Look back at my OP, no mention of fuel economy; okay yes I did very briefly mention tax (but not in any detail - seems not unreasonable when the 1.2 is only £30 compared to £145 for the 1.0!).:) Also, in post 33 I made a brief aside about Fiat - not the main reason for passing that make over, but if I’ve read in reviews and noticed that they stand from the rest as having poorer economy (and higher emissions), nothing wrong in mentioning it. Again in my post 34, I made another brief aside about my Mondeo banger only doing 35ish to the gallon, this in the context of saying it was a great car which I had for 3 yrs and 69,000 miles - again nothing wrong in mentioning it, and again hardly ‘buggering about and worrying‘.:D

    See above for context - no need for me to repeat where I was on this in the thread. Fuel costs are indeed a fraction of my costs these days, but anyone in any purchase takes account of all costs, even if those that aren't the main consideration. Going back to when I was commuting 22,000mls per year, petrol costs were actually the best part of a month’s take home pay, even higher when doing the 22k in less economical cars before the Lancer (Mondeo, Carlton, Cavalier - though only 14k per year in the latter). But yes, even though the additional cost due to poorer economy was significant, it was also marginal in the sense that cost of fuel for that mileage would be substantial in any car, even one with good economy (the Lancer did 45mpg). I made that calculation decades ago when buying cheap cars as the opportunities to do so came up (note that the Mondeo cost less than 2 months worth of petrol). This was not as I’m doing now, where I have the time and money to try to get something that will be as hassle free as the past 11 years. I’m sure that it was inadvertent to mis-attribute discussion on fuel economy to me and then 'why o' why' at me, but I want to set the record straight.:)

    Again, not me, I also arrived at that position when I saw/read about people worrying about gas guzzlers, and wanting to trade in, supposedly to save money. HJ pages used to be full of them, and to my mind it was just an excuse for a new car. My record:

    Lancer owned 11yrs since 40,000mls; now covered 169,500 and only going because of its persistent and unknown problem which has cost me too much in the attempt to solve it.

    Previous - £300 12 yr old (1993 ) 1.8L Mondeo Mk1 with 109,000mls on the clock; kept for approx 3.5yrs covering 69,000mls to 178,000 mls - cost of maintenance needed at that point uneconomical.

    Previous - £500 14 yr old 1989 2.0L Vauxhall Carlton auto, 82,000mls (thereabouts) kept approx 21mths to approx 125,000. Scrapped when the MOT expired, due to rust and an intermittent starting problem (for which I had developed a novel but hairy work-around).

    Previous - £2000 10 yr old 1990 2.0L Vauxhall Cavalier 85,000mls thereabouts kept 3yrs 8mths to approx 150,000 mls. This had problems leading me to commute by train for a spell. Eventually, cost of cumulative maintenance needed made it uneconomical (needed electric window motors and other things), so scrapped. Owning this car made me a convert to bangernomics - no point paying £‘000s, buy cheap and walk away if faced with costly maintenance/repairs.

    Previous - £2,700 6 yr old 1987 Rover 213 64,000mls, kept 7yrs to 169,000mls and extensive rust. Effectively a scrap car, but dealer took it as part of the negotiated down price for the Cavalier.

    That’s five cars. I also owned three other cars before the above, so my next purchase will be the ninth car (all of them used cars) I will have bought and owned (I’ve never leased or had company cars).

    See my list above. Of course I'm not going to get there with my next car, and I've said as much in my posts mentioning current annual miles of 5-6,000, particularly in post 57. The whole point of my OP was a concern from online anecdotes and HJ content that there was more than a small risk of modern cars giving problems and not even making 60-70,000. Therefore seeking info to make an informed choice.

    So, ‘fussing’ over fuel economy and tax, or changing cars and spending ‘thousands every three years’ is not, was not, never has been me.:) I do though, now have the time and money to try to get a trouble free outcome from this next, possibly last, car purchase, hopefully for the next 11 years. Replies on this thread have been helpful and all appreciated. I have enough to be going on with now, so have no more questions, but genuine thanks.
  8. nicetone

    nicetone pfm Member

    All good to know. Many thanks for sharing your experience.

  9. James

    James Lord of the Erg\o/s

    I had a 2.2L Accord VTEC sedan/saloon. I recall it was a 1997 model. Utterly reliable and comfortable, but what a gutless engine below 4,000rpm.
  10. stevec67

    stevec67 pfm Member

    That's the VTEC thing. You sacrifice low end power for economy at low speeds and more power at high speeds.
  11. SteveG

    SteveG pfm Member

    The 1.6 VTi Civic I had was a bit like that - redlined at 8000rpm and was great fun when in the power, but not all that gutsy lower down. Some of the later VTEC's didn't quite have the buzz at the top end, but had a good bit more low down.
  12. NeilR

    NeilR pfm Member

    My father had a 2008 vintage Honda Accord with a vtec engine. he liked it a lot but the engine started to give very high oil consumption after about 100'000 miles. It went back to the Honda dealer, the engine was stripped down and it was found that a piston ring was missing on one of the pistons. Manufacturing fault. I'm amazed it did so many miles with a ring missing!

    The engine was replaced free of charge and the faulty engine it was shipped by Honda back to Japan for further analysis. he subsequently did another 100'000 miles before the car was finally replaced.
  13. stevec67

    stevec67 pfm Member

    Wow. Try getting VAG to deal with a manufacturing fault 5 miles outside warranty. Honda take back a 100k mile engine, replace it and give the car back.

    I'm amazed like you that it held up for so long. I've heard similar tales of new cars, they are back within 10k miles.
  14. argustimewas

    argustimewas pfm Member

    This afternoon I went into a brand dearship to enquire about a new (i.e. unregistered brand new) car and requested deals for both a cash purchase and using a PCP. The options they gave were broadly comparable, but I left without agreeing a purchase because the offers were less good than I wanted and I needed some time to consider my options.

    At the end of the day I received a phone call to say they had found the exact car I want and offered a better deal if I agree a purchase by the end of the month. This was followed up with an email which I read after the close of business which I won't be able to clarify with them until tomorrow.

    They are asking for an "admin fee" of £149 for both the cash and the PCP options. After an internet search I'm inclined to assert this is waived, but I'm interested in the experience of others about such fees?
  15. Ginger

    Ginger pfm Member

    You mean the car is x price + £149? Sorry, but they can call it what they like, it becomes part of the price for you.
  16. Tony Lockhart

    Tony Lockhart pfm Member

    If they’ve called you, it’s not because they’ve worked hard in the background to find you the car of your dreams. It’s floating around on the net, every dealer can see it. They know they’re going to make a few quid from you. And that’s fairy snuff.

    Think long and hard, then do it or don’t. Just don’t concentrate your mind on a few quid here and there.
  17. argustimewas

    argustimewas pfm Member

    Found a more attractive deal elsewhere with no admin fee so sorted.
    Tony Lockhart likes this.
  18. hifinutt

    hifinutt hifinutt

    Just had a long chat with a relative in a hilly area , they have a 1.0 Skoda rapide . He is frustrated by the turbo lag on a hill. It takes a while to get going and then goes like a rocket. He is not at all happy after some months with it

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