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Careers Guidance All Purpose Thread.

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Mullardman, Aug 27, 2009.

  1. IanW

    IanW pfm Member

    Indeed it is.

    At least someone is trying to do something, who may be able to influence the people that need to act.
  2. Still

    Still he said his naim was ralph

    It's kinda ironic that governments who put so much effort in to getting people working put so little effort in to getting people in to the right job.
  3. Darth Vader

    Darth Vader From the Dark Side

    But what is the 'right' job? When I look back on the past I would never have guessed that I would end up in IT nor on the way become a school teacher. In fact IT didn't exist when I left school at 15. I guess the nearest thing would be a comptometer operator back then so would have been way off beam.


  4. Still

    Still he said his naim was ralph

    The 'right job' is the best options to pursue at the time, and that's where CG comes in.
    Obviously (I thought) we all develop over, and so do our work options.
  5. Darth Vader

    Darth Vader From the Dark Side

    Well my youngest is 20 and at uni and as a parent what I saw as career guidance at 16 and 18 even when I paid for professional assessment was I thought of limited benefit (I was going to say useless).

    You can go online and do a self assessment test and its just as good or bad depending on your POV. In fact thats about all the CG department at the 6th form college did. Lots of pamflets and computers to log onto web sites. Even us parents were given web sites to visit. That was my experience of CG before the axe fell.

    However perhaps CG could be better?


  6. Still

    Still he said his naim was ralph

    Imo a capable CG pro is going to do better than a bit of software.
    Certainly when I received a few CG meetings between the ages of 14 to 16 it was very helpful.
  7. Darth Vader

    Darth Vader From the Dark Side

    In a way my one 10 min CG meeting about 3 weeks before I left school was useful and gave me the first step on the way to a career. He asked me what 'O' Levels I was taking then rummaged through his card file and asked if I'd like to work in a paint laboratory up the road so to speak. Well it had the magic word laboratory so I said yes. Pure luck maybe. Three weeks later I started work with another lad that I have since contacted. He spent his whole life in the paint industry and lives no more than 10 miles away from his childhood home.

    Times are different now and I think a different approach is needed. My youngest was just effectively given a huge list of occupations that would 'suit'. It just added more confusion to confusion.


  8. Still

    Still he said his naim was ralph

    Times are certainly different, but it all comes down to the quality of the individual service.
    It sounds like your young 'un wasn't given a good one.
  9. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    What did they say dear- stay out of Rotherham?
  10. Still

    Still he said his naim was ralph

    Did I tell you about the years I spent working on Top of the Pops?
  11. Darth Vader

    Darth Vader From the Dark Side

    You weren't one of Pans People were you! Cor bring on the dancing girls. Takes me back a looong time.


  12. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    No but I want to hear everything. Was it very tactile?
  13. Still

    Still he said his naim was ralph

    Altough all BBC staff past and present are bound by a contractual confidentiality clause, I can conform the green room was club-like, and a super adventure.
  14. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    What 'acts' were there?
  15. Still

    Still he said his naim was ralph

    Let's just say when take your children to work day fell on a Thursday it had a certain edge to it.
  16. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    Do you think the Soviets knew what was going on? Clearly Aung San Suu Kyi didn't.
  17. Mullardman

    Mullardman Moderately extreme...

    DV, there isn't any 'approach' at present.

    There are just a load of shitty contracts to deliver a shitty service. The focus is totally on shifting people off the dole and it is all aimed at adults.

    Gove and his cronies have abandned YPs to their fate.

    School kids are supposed to get help from teachers. Teachers in general have neither the expertise nor the time to help.

    Believe me, Govt. just want to be3 abnle to say that x thousand people have been 'helped'. I know what I am talking about here. The paperwork demanded by Govt. now is all about generating stats. It has the square root of bugger all to do with career choice, career progression, etc., and definitely has nothing to do with planning our workforce

    I really don't want to go into this all in detail again, but what you are describing is not any kind of service that I recognise.

    Almost without exception, you all focus far too much on the idea that CG is about assessing people's capability etc., and then 'assigning' them to 'suitable' jobs.

    Please, please, please try to grasp that the job is about far more than that.

    It is relatively unusual to meet anyone who needs to be told what they might like to do.

    It is very much more common to meet someone who has no grasp of the opportunity structure which exists beyond compulsory education, so that even if they have a clue what they might want to do, they may have no understanding of entry routes, local/national provision of education/training, the qualification structure, heirarchy, etc. etc.

    They will therefore have little or no clue how to generate a plan, define a route, etc.

    They will also be unaware of the pitfalls etc/, which can arise from making ill advised moves.

    They are also likely to have little or no experience of work, and little or no understanding of job search, interview skills, etc. etc.

    They are effectively 'lambs to the slaughter'

    This is the stuff that CG practitioners working with school students do day in and day out.

    It was no accident that the Careers Service (Pre Connexions) developed the way it did.

    Every Young Person (YP) was offered support from year 9 onwards.

    No YP was left wallowing in unemployment after they left school. All were supported into some sort of opportunity. Very few dropped below the radar.

    We had specialist in HE issues, FE Issues, Employment and Training issues. Special Needs, etc., etc.

    We had contact with EVERY employer in our patch and many more on a national basis. We didn't just seek vacancies, we also supported the employers and assisted them with recruitment.

    We organiesed an annual conference at which practically every university was able to set up its stall and every 6th former was bussed in to talk to uni reps about their institution and their course offer. In addition, seminars and info session were delivered to provide more detailed info on, for e.g. Studying Design, Getting into Law, etc., etc., etc.

    I delivered a programe of Careers related stuff to all of my Year 9-13 students. It was planned. It was logical. It had a purpose.

    Year 9 was vbasic stuff and options.

    Year 10 was decision making, understanding the outside world etc. (Seriously.. how else do you expect that a YP is going to grasp the difference between a training course and a Uni degree, or the difference between NVQ1 and a PhD? .. by osmosis? Nobody else is telling them this stuff. Why would you expect them to know it?)

    Year 11. A couple of recap group sessions and then the famous Careers Interview (Which I admit is the only bit most kids remember, but it isn't the only thing that happens.)

    Even the interview programme was planned. Based on best available info from the school, the 'hardest to help' were seen first, allowing for more support later.

    Parents evenings. Double edged sword. Most appreciated our input. Some 'knew it all' a few were hostile. That's life. And Careers Guidance has never been compulsory in this country.

    Follow up. Already said it. Nobody left adrift. Everybody offered help. Active pursuit of 'non participants' and 'not knowns'.

    So, whether they had fallen out with no quals, or were taking 10 A levels, they were offered support. The level of support needed has little correlation with intellect.

    And what do we have two Govt.s and 13 years on?

    A shambles.

    We have gone from world leaders to third world provision in 13 years.

    And the real pity is that when we were at our peak of performance and provision, the total annual cost was an almost vanishingly small element of the Education budget, variously esrtimated at £80-200 million PA. For everything. For every school pupil from year 9 through 13 and everybody else in HE, training or employment up to age 21.

    And now we have? What exactly? And it is costing more for the bugger all we have now, than it cost for the highly developed, world leading service we had 13 years ago.

  18. Mullardman

    Mullardman Moderately extreme...

    Even when we had a viable system, most parents remained blissfully unaware of the background work done by Careers Advisers before they (the parents) turned up for what they perceive as a 'one off' event.

    That said. I have a few former collegues who have secured contracts with enlightened schools and are delivering pretty much what we always did pre Connexions.

    OTOH, most schools are buying in nothing. Or worse, are using poorly qualified charlatans.

    Welcome to the world of the shrunken state.

    It's not all good is it?

  19. Still

    Still he said his naim was ralph

    Imo it's a big loss. I've no doubt CG put me on track.

    The Soviets were running the show!
  20. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    Did they send a KGB relaxation therapist to entrap " the hairy monster" and a deceased granny to snare Savile?

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