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Chord Hugo M Scaler with Qutest DAC.

Discussion in 'audio' started by K'ford Pikelet, May 24, 2019.

  1. raysablade

    raysablade pfm Member

    i was going to buy a Qutest today, i'm glad i read this before i did. Its saved me months of angnt and good holday.
     
  2. scotty38

    scotty38 pfm Member

    I wasn't really, it was a tongue in cheek response to a previous comment....
     
  3. Suffolk Tony

    Suffolk Tony pfm Member

    Melco works just fine with MScaler; I tried it in my system, into my Chord Dave. Very good, but then Dave's pretty spiffing on his own.
     
  4. Foot Tapper

    Foot Tapper Foot Tapper

    Indeed Tony. I have been enjoying Audiostore Prestige 3 out via USB to M Scaler + DAVE.
    The best digital source we have ever had in the house.

    Can't seem to stop playing music, regardless of genre...

    Best regards, FT
     
    Suffolk Tony likes this.
  5. Mr Underhill

    Mr Underhill pfm Member

    Hi Tony,

    Have you reported on your MScalar findings in a thread I have missed?

    Cheers,

    M
     
  6. JamesJamerson

    JamesJamerson pfm Member

  7. tuga

    tuga European

    Of course not, he'll be much happier if you buy an M-Scaler...
     
  8. JamesJamerson

    JamesJamerson pfm Member

    I may be wrong, but I don't think anything as tawdry as commerce matters to him at this stage of his career. My impression from his writings is that he believes software cannot replicate what the HMS does. I don't know how a hammer works, so am hopelessly unqualified to argue the technical toss. However, I can't remember there being such a buzz around a bit of kit for a long time, so I will get one on loan.
     
    Blackmetalboon likes this.
  9. tuga

    tuga European

    How does the M-Scaler work? Is not FPGA using on-board software?

    What if software doesn't replicate it's performance but produces more accurate reproduction?
     
  10. John Phillips

    John Phillips pfm Member

    I only so far looked at the first few minutes. I will look later at the rest but for now I don't get the 4μs transients argument.

    Once you have a 44.1 kHz sampled signal (CD rate, just for example), any transient information needing more than 22.05 kHz bandwidth to represent it has gone. No amount of upsampling and filtering will put it back. All you can ever hope to do is accurately (or pleasingly) reproduce what you have.

    I get it that the M Scaler will produce a more theoretically accurate linear phase pass-band (up to half the sampling rate) than probably anything else out there (maybe excluding HQplayer). But if you need the transients to perceive bass or timbre as claimed, then AFAICS the only way to keep them is to sample at a high rate in the studio and keep the high rate throughout the entire chain going into the DAC.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
  11. Foot Tapper

    Foot Tapper Foot Tapper

    Perhaps it does. However, I recently listened to a Chord M Scaler + DAVE fed by an Innuos Statement server. Software was Roon.
    With the M Scaler doing its stuff, the sound quality was superb. Bypassing the M Scaler but upscaling/upsampling (I can never remember the difference) using Roon software on the Innuos server resulted in a relatively flat, lifeless sound.

    Best regards, FT
     
  12. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    Has anyone reported similar SQ benefits from using one of the dcs upsamplers? I accept they might not be doing what the m scaler is doing,
     
  13. tuga

    tuga European

    It may or may not be the case here, but sometimes these perceived qualities (exciting, lively) are the result of colourations or distortion.
    Some tipes of distortion sound nice to some people.

    Isn't "upscaling" a marketing term?
     
  14. Foot Tapper

    Foot Tapper Foot Tapper

    Thanks tuga. Possibly, I don't know. To be honest, I don't really mind.
    I only really care about whether it makes music more enjoyable and involving to listen to. How it gets there is of less interest, so I'll settle for being contentedly ignorant about the software algorithms.

    Others are genuinely interested in the technologies and conversion algorithms employed and I admire and respect that but do not share their interest.

    FT
     
    Suffolk Tony likes this.
  15. clivem2

    clivem2 pfm Member

    I'm trying HQPlayer with Qutest at 768k. The sound is much improved along the lines of what people say about M Scaler.
     
    tuga likes this.
  16. tuga

    tuga European

    Which filter are you using?

    The -xtr filter is supposed to be an improved Chord filter.
    I prefer the -ext2.

    A couple of Jussi's post:


    I created it (the -xtr) for people who like Chord Dave -style filters. It is about 5 times longer than poly-sinc and thus about 5x heavier.
    Offered in linear- and minimum-phase variants.
    Stop-band attenuation exceeds needs of 40-bit PCM, being over -240 dB.
    Normal poly-sinc filters are created to reach excess of 32-bit PCM resolution (> -192 dB) stop-band attenuation.

    Since high-rate modulators can reach peak SNR higher than 32-bit PCM resolution at audio band frequencies, I thought it could be useful…




    poly-sinc-short is trying to be as few taps as possible while still having high attenuation (same as poly-sinc) and not too slow roll-off.
    At the moment poly-sinc is between the -short and -xtr, but closer to -short.
    I've thought about poly-sinc-long, which would be otherwise same, but longer/steeper than regular poly-sinc.
    -xtr is not called -long because it changes some other parameters too, like stop-band attenuation.
    The new poly-sinc-ext2 is closer to -xtr but a bit shorter, while having otherwise completely different design.
     
  17. clivem2

    clivem2 pfm Member

    Thank you tuga, I'll have a play .

    So far I'm on the default filter.
     
  18. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    Tuga, Is HQ Player a complete package for playing files like JRiver, Foobar2000 etc? If it is, is it easy to use? (I can’t even use Foobar)
     
  19. tuga

    tuga European

    It's easy to use but the interface is quite simplistic. You use it as the file browser of the operating system.
    I prefer to browse with iTunes and then drag-drop into HQ Player.

    If you wish you can download the trial version and I'll give you a hand setting it up.
     
    TheDecameron likes this.
  20. Moppit

    Moppit pfm Member

    Ooh! Something else to mess about with... Tuga please do share more...

    Is HQ player something you can download onto a Pi or is it mac/pc only?

    Intrigued...perhaps there should be a separate thread on this?
     
  21. tuga

    tuga European

    I think that there's a Unix version which can be controlled remotely.
    I'm not sure that the R-Pi has the required processing power though...
    But you can use your Pi as an endpoint/buffer by installing the NAA image and use your laptop or desktop as the processing computer, which is what I did before I got a Cubox. This actually improves performance by reducing the amount of noise sent to the DAC.
     
  22. Moppit

    Moppit pfm Member

    I've got a Minix headless pc kicking around with Windows..might be worth exploring running this as the processing pc. Any thoughts what sort of processor is needed? I seem to remember Roon dsp requirements require min i5 level..the Minix is nothing special...
     

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