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Election night 2019 / aftermath

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Joe Hutch, Dec 12, 2019.

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  1. Robert

    Robert Tapehead

    But, typically for a vacuous and largely centrist political discussion thread :) - you all neatly forget one important thing - shifting economics and the ability to whip-up political storms.

    All this nonsense about having to wait many years years for change is just defeatist rubbish, it assumes we just bump along with the current fairly benign economic conditions which history shows to be highly unlikely.
    Economy tanks and Tory fortunes tank with them, because just like 10 years ago it will be the poor in those newly acquired former Labour northern seats who will pay first and hardest.
    That tends to sober the mind and quickly reshape politics.
    gavreid likes this.
  2. Weekender

    Weekender pfm Member

    Look...in my opinion if Labour can't be a broader church then it is doomed.
  3. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    People on the side of The People always ended up disappointed, in any case. They found that The People tended not to be grateful or appreciative or forward-thinking or obedient. The People tended to be small-minded and conservative and not very clever and were even distrustful of cleverness. And so the children of the revolution were faced with the age-old problem: it wasn't that you had the wrong kind of government, which was obvious, but that you had the wrong kind of people.

    Terry Pratchett.
    Darmok, Nick_G, lordsummit and 4 others like this.
  4. JustJohn

    JustJohn pfm Member

    Er, we've had ten years of appalling Tory governments and the 'poor' have just told you where you can shove Corbynism. Offer them Corbyn-light in five years' time and they'll ever so politely tell you again where you can shove it.
    JonR, Big Tabs, doctorf and 1 other person like this.
  5. gassor

    gassor There may be more posts after this.

    When would that be, the mid 70s?
  6. gavreid

    gavreid pfm Member

    Just like people Detroit or Pittsburg voted for Trump - they voted in the moment, they believed something and they will have to learn the lesson, a bit like grabbing a handful of nettles for the first time
  7. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    Good to stay positive but as it stands the far right seem more likely to benefit from hardship and disappointment over Brexit than the left. And when that time comes the Conservatives will just break off its far right module, the Brexit Party, to channel the resentment, before absorbing it again once the crisis is over.
  8. Alex S

    Alex S carbon based lifeform

    Absolutely, and it is this that refutes Robert. The English have never managed a proper revolution. They bump along not wishing for any fuss, tending their shops, hoping there’s not many sleeping in the doorway. England is the centre ground, almost by definition.
    eisenach likes this.
  9. glancaster

    glancaster In the silicon vale

    JustJohn likes this.
  10. JustJohn

    JustJohn pfm Member

    A statement so blindingly obvious yet so hard for many to see. The party also needs to jettison the outdated rhetoric of 'socialism' and it's dreary baggage (everlastingly waiting for the people to see the light of its glory) and reinvent itself for the 21st century. Oddly enough, I feel Corbyn was groping for it with his broadband idea.
    myles likes this.
  11. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    Centrists should have done well then, instead of being wiped out. People knowingly voted for chaos. It doesn't really fit the picture.
    gavreid likes this.
  12. gavreid

    gavreid pfm Member

    Sean this is my third attempt - the Labour party is not where it's at, never has been, you have to get over this hurdle
    Seanm likes this.
  13. ciderglider

    ciderglider pfm Member

    We haven't seen many unicorns either.
  14. wacko

    wacko pfm Member

    You don't think it was possibly that Democrats and Labour had the wrong leaders ?
  15. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    That is down to FPTP, not ideology. Don’t have a proper democracy? Then don’t expect a democratic result.
  16. gavreid

    gavreid pfm Member

    Then they need rules on who leads the broad church, because they can't sort it out between themselves - in the way that the Tories seem to be able to do, for most of the time.
  17. Joe

    Joe pfm Member

    I wonder why ? :rolleyes:

    And I bet you don't.
  18. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    The LDs unquestionably had the wrong leader, but even so they pushed their voteshare up by 4%.
    JonR likes this.
  19. ciderglider

    ciderglider pfm Member

    Too right, time to resurrect the RCP and the WRP. And maybe the Golden Dawn?
  20. cooky1257

    cooky1257 pfm Member

    There was nothing wrong with Corbyn/Labours policies,there were just too many and in making it such a huge offer if managed to undermine every single one of them. A lot of anti Corbynism opportunists here.
    A leader without the baggage and a best deal Brexit policy would’ve screwed the Tories. Baby and bath water spring to mind , ironically if Boris doesn’t pursue essentially Labour policies re NHS, education , waspy women etc he’s in for a shitstorm.
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