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Government response to Covid 19

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Philim, Mar 21, 2020.

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  1. Philim

    Philim pfm Member

    I would like to pass on my support to the UK government and many of my colleagues who are doing an amazing job at this time in what is going to be the most challenging event since 1939. We are about to enter the biggest economic and health disaster in living memory which will leave a lasting legacy.
    Very few people were mentally prepared for this in a country where we have enjoyed high levels of wealth and freedom for many years. The country has needed to be eased into what is coming otherwise such a shift too quickly would lead to civil unrest. There are still many that do not believe there is a problem and there are many that are very scared.
    The government has taken steps many in this country would never even think possible. For those that accuse them of making it up as they go along - we all are. All of us in the frontline are reacting to a very dynamic changing situation and every issue you address throws up 10 further issues because this group of people need this or this group need that. It is very complex and working through these issues would normally take years and they are doing it in days. There will always be things that get missed or could be addressed better but I genuinely believe they are doing their best in a horrendous situation. Sitting behind a keyboard thinking you can do better is both arrogant and unhelpful. For those that think they are trying to get away with the minimum - I think you should reflect on the actions taken in this situation and not cloud your views with historical political views. All I can say that from day one the first message we have received is to protect people, jobs and the services needed with guarantees of financial support. The intention is that when this is over as many people as possible will have jobs. A lot of money is already in local authorities for businesses.
    I am responsible for several thousand employees many of whom in the next few weeks will be putting their own health and lives at risk to support all of us. I have had the benefit of working with government to find solutions through this process and am very grateful that actions taken by the uk government have protected hundreds of jobs.
    Sadly it appears free speech continues to disappear on pfm with criticism only allowed to flow one way.
    Many comments on a thread which i am no longer able to contribute to, are at best misinformed and unhelpful at this time.
    I would implore all of you on here to put your own petty politics to one side and put your energies into beating the spread of this virus.
     
    Gingerbeard, Linus and johnny nocash like this.
  2. George J

    George J Herefordshire member

    I am not really interested in fault finding at this stage, and probably not in the aftermath as human failures of prescience are inevitable. There are many unknowns about the virus, such as, degree of immunity [if any], how it will spread in the UK, how some people will react to the inevitably stricter controls on our live to come sooner or later.

    Thus my heart falls when I read petty political point scoring for partisan political reasons. At this stage it would be good if people - as a minimum - scrupulously followed the advice being given to socially distance and stop hoarding and so on. There is absolutely nothing preventing people acting with even greater caution and care if their situation allows for it.

    Some degree of self-reliance is going to be necessary above merely complying with advice, or obeying statutory controls in time.

    This is not cow-towing to political dictatorship or any such nonsense, but simply acting in a way that is unselfish and for the good other others, perhaps what we might call "for greater good of society." Many good people will have to make personal sacrifices before this thing is over. Some already are ...

    It will be a time for some to grow-up a bit and think beyond their own immediate desires.

    We can wait for the next general election to change the party in power if there is "after the fact" proof of any unstated government intent that is contrary to the best needs and safety of the people of our country. I happen to believe that though misjudgements and failures here and there are inevitable, there is no sub-plot of the political leaders of the country to do the people down. That would leave the leaders concerned not only a with a lost election, but would hang round their necks the taint of treachery. Whatever one's view of this party or that, I do not believe that any of them have treacherous or hidden agendas.

    Keep well, and best wishes from George
     
    johnny nocash likes this.
  3. cjarchez

    cjarchez pfm Member

    I think the most important point made in the OP is the balance between measures taken/enforced and what the public will bear.

    The recommendations are sound, it requires people to be civil minded and use some self control.

    The alternative is a heavily enforced state lockdown like China or Spain have used. The peoples there are used to or still remember days when this was the norm. Definitely not the case for UK citizens which is why a different line must be taken.
    As said above, very difficult times and too easy to criticise.
     
  4. anuenlil

    anuenlil pfm Member

    I'm wavering between reading this as cheap rhetoric, disingenuous, or ignorant. In continental Europe, what you call 'lockdown' is now the norm rather than the exception (we are all staring in amazement at the slowness with which the UK and the Netherlands are coming around to our position under the banner of 'our population will not have it any other way'). Does that mean every other country is an ex-dictatorial regimes where the population will have it?

    As I said, your implication is either cheap, disingenous, or ignorant. I do know that in Belgium, our ratio of intensive care beds/population is vastly superior to both the UK and the Netherlands. This is fact. And yet we feel 'lockdown' (a strong term, we're having a wonderful time exploring the region by bike these days) is the better option over banking on herd effects in relation to a disease we hardly understand. Let's see what happens, shall we?

    I'm usually a gentle person.
     
    Snufkin likes this.
  5. anuenlil

    anuenlil pfm Member

    PS. Watching the local news as I write this. Hospitals in northern Brabant in the Netherlands cannot cope with anything else but Corona these days, and are asking surrounding regions and countries for assistance with other patients. Coming soon to an island near you, I fear. Unless everybody shapes up and begins to strictly observe self-imposed social distancing, regardless of what your government decides
     
  6. DimitryZ

    DimitryZ pfm Member

    So, no "petty politics", just support the government.

    I am not sure this is a great message in either UK or US.
     
    Snufkin likes this.
  7. cjarchez

    cjarchez pfm Member

    @anuenlil

    I think you read far too much into my post.
    Plenty of other countries have shown slackness in enforcing tight regulation for various reasons. The UK gov. would not want civil unrest caused by sudden "lockdown" measures and indeed has recent ( our lifetime ) history of avoiding such matters if possible.
    Yes, this can be seen as weak and risky, certainly by those countries that have stronger measures already in place. Your statement that "does this mean we are all ex-dictorial regimes" is a little drama-queen, a weak attempt at poignancy "The lady doth protest too much, methinks".
    Other governments have kept borders open and movements/social mingling completely free far longer, purely for short sighted, financial reasons (tourism) and are only reacting slowly now because other countries have closed sufficiently to interrupt this supply anyway.
    Would I, as incumbent of No.10 want stronger measures in place? Sure!
    As said previously, too easy to criticise but that does not mean I'm 100% behind the gov. stance taken. I was only pointing out that the OP had presented a reasonable excuse ( note I don't write "reason" ) for said stance.
     
  8. anuenlil

    anuenlil pfm Member

    This is what you wrote: "The alternative is a heavily enforced state lockdown like China or Spain have used. The peoples there are used to or still remember days when this was the norm". I count at least three factual errors in that statement, and was reacting against the gross generalizations you bandy about. You have clarified your reasons for doing so, and I retract those parts of my response that made erroneous inferences about those background reasons.

    Your use of gendered metaphor is worrying, by the way.
     
  9. Cheese

    Cheese Bitter lover

    The day before yesterday, Italy counted 400 deaths. Yesterday probably even more. I hope you don’t need me to explain you that this is more important.

    Good thread Philim.
     
  10. Brian

    Brian Eating fat, staying slim

    Philm,
    I won't derail your thread by calling you a moron, as you did me in the other thread.
    All I will say is, the UK govt response is both inadequate and too slow. Both caused by their ideology, something which has also ensured we are in a very poor starting position for dealing with this.
    Carry on with your need for a tory love-in thread.
    Cheers
     
    roman and Snufkin like this.
  11. anuenlil

    anuenlil pfm Member

    Your hope is unnecessary, tha
    Your hope is unnecessary, thank you.
     
  12. laughingboy

    laughingboy pfm Member

    Philim, the government are now responding to the crisis. But when people are going to die because of the government's lack of appropriate and timely action, I think it is entirely appropriate to criticise.

    We should look at the facts. The World Health Organisation updates are here. They set out the developing understanding of novel coronavirus. But by 27 January 2020, the response is recognisable as the message the WHO has been repeating since:

    "STRATEGIC OBJECTIVES

    WHO’s strategic objectives for this response are to:

    • Limit human to human transmission including, reducing secondary infections among close contacts and health care workers, preventing transmission amplification events, and preventing further international spread from China*;

    • Identify, isolate and care for patients early, including providing optimized care for infected patients;

    • Identify and reduce transmission from the animal source;

    • Address crucial unknowns and about clinical severity, extent of transmission and infection, treatment

      options, and accelerate the development of diagnostics, therapeutics and vaccines;

    • Communicate critical risk and event information to all communities and counter misinformation;

    • Minimize social and economic impact through multisectoral partnerships."

      Meanwhile, The Lancet published a report on 24 January.

      The facts show that our government was slow to react. When it did act, it did not go far enough (a wasted week of open schools, pubs, etc). And its messaging is still too unclear, too lighthearted, too trivialising ('squashing the sombrero') to deter people from acting dangerously.

      On the other hand some of the economic responses have been excellent.
     
  13. Brian

    Brian Eating fat, staying slim

    Philm,
    I won't derail your thread by calling you a moron, as you did me in the other thread.
    All I will say is, the UK govt response is both inadequate and too slow. Both caused by their ideology, something which has also ensured we are in a very poor starting position for dealing with this.
    Carry on with your tory love-in thread but be prepared for others to be critical of what they are doing, I doubt I'm the only one.
    I'll leave you to it.
    Cheers
     
  14. Brian

    Brian Eating fat, staying slim

    Philm,
    I won't derail your thread by calling you a moron, as you did me in the other thread.
    All I will say is, the UK govt response is both inadequate and too slow. Both caused by their ideology, something which has also ensured we are in a very poor starting position for dealing with this.
    Carry on with your tory love-in thread but be prepared for others to be critical of what they are doing, I doubt I'm the only one.
    I'll leave you to it.
    Cheers
     
  15. lordsummit

    lordsummit Moderator

    This is just a second version of the thread the op is banned from. Closed as will be any further attempts to circumvent the ban.
     
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