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Here is the news ...

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Still, Jul 11, 2019.

  1. Still

    Still he said his naim was ralph

    aka wtf is going on?

    How can the lil' fish evaluate the credibility and limitations/biases of sources information/news?
    This is current for me as I recently discovered that a friend, who is usually intelligent and grounded, has been using the Aston Villa fan forum for a couple of years.

    This graphic illustrates some of the many strengths and weaknesses of some popular services.


    jackbarron and Sue Pertwee-Tyr like this.
  2. kendo

    kendo Prussian bot

    Where is "The Brexiteer" on that chart? Red Zone I presume...
    Still likes this.
  3. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr pfm Member

    I think you're dignifying 'The Brexiteer' as a source of news and information, and I'm not sure that's justified.

    Where would we put pfm on that board, do we think?
    Still likes this.
  4. Bob McC

    Bob McC Living the life of Riley

    As it’s American I think PFM would be far left.
  5. deebster

    deebster Half Man Half Biscuit

    What's wrong with the AV fan forum?
  6. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr pfm Member

    Pinko fish media?
  7. Still

    Still he said his naim was ralph

    Every org' has it's limitations and blind spots and some much more than others.
    istm the key to being better informed is understanding what the issues are for each operation.

    Stop being naughty :=)

    fao any puzzled lil' fish: it wouldn't be inappropriate for pfm's inclusion as it's not, and doesn't claim to be, a source of N+CAs.

    It appears you've completely missed the point.
  8. Bob McC

    Bob McC Living the life of Riley

    You mean you had one?
  9. Still

    Still he said his naim was ralph

    Big up the centrists?

    The media bias graphic shows that as the quality descends from 'original fact reporting' to the wonky zones the providers largely split to left or right bias.
  10. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    That's the problem with the thing. I think as a basic orientation tool for people just coming to the idea of bias it's helpful, and it's good that it does address factors other than bias. But like any simple schema it's limited (what does "neutral" mean here?), and it communicates a value system without necessarily appearing to ("the quality descends"): it centres establishment sources and presents others as more or less aberrant. It all comes down to how it's used, though. You could use it as an interesting talking point to spark critical discussion, or you could use it to shut down critical discussion. I note that displaying any kind of scepticism towards sources like the BBC is now likely to attract the charge of "Trumpian!" It's a confusing world out there and people are looking for certainty. Some people find that in Infowars and some by circling the wagons around the old centres of power.
    jtrade and Joe Hutch like this.
  11. Still

    Still he said his naim was ralph

    Thanks Sean. I appreciate the engagement.

    The media bias chart a tool which is designed to help us understand the nature of our sources of info'.
    Like all tools it can be used for good or bad, but that's up to us.

    The methodology of creating this is (imsmc) on the link.
    It is an aggregate of each orgs published articles which have been fact and bias checked.
    Note this is v4. The standards of news orgs can go down, as well as up.

    In terms of factual > fabricated information the quality descends.


    Misrepresenting BBC as "fake news" is Trumpian. Like all services (ex' the info' wars sector) Auntie has strengths and weaknesses.

    I agree, but consider it dangerous and a significant factor of the mess (re: uninformed people) we're in.
    We have to take responsibility for informing ourselves, and the better our knowledge the more certain we can be.

    True, but istm they are being played and living in ignorance.
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
  12. Stunsworth

    Stunsworth pfm Member

    The general rule of thumb is that if a news outlet reinforces their views some fishes will see it as being honest and unbiased. If on the other hand a news outlet contradicts their views it's 'fake news'.
    cctaylor, flatpopely and Still like this.
  13. Still

    Still he said his naim was ralph

    C'on (almost) every lil' fish - lets change those rules!
  14. richgilb

    richgilb Admonishtrator

    Can't see the Independent
  15. richgilb

    richgilb Admonishtrator

    Indeed. Also, when I used to interpret international quant surveys, and we had to deal with questions like on a scale of 1-5, how do you rate this, 1 = awful, 5 = superb, we used to take the USA responses down a notch, so if they said 3 it meant 2 in English culture.
  16. Still

    Still he said his naim was ralph


    Joking aside mediabiaschart.com doesn't include every service Worldwide for (presumably) obvious reasons.

    iiuc The independent is best avoided these days.
    Sadly it has fallen from generally high and reliable standards to little more than a bombed out shell/click bait factory.

    The media bias chart isn't a product of surveys.
  17. Joe Hutch

    Joe Hutch Mate of the bloke

    Not many people can.
    Still likes this.
  18. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK Waiting for the streetcar..

    It's very similar to the idea that the political party I support acts out of compassion and care for the country, and yours act because they are machiavellian and power-grabbing. ;-)
    Tim Jones and Still like this.
  19. eternumviti

    eternumviti pfm Member

    No Telegraph or Times, Guardian, BBC and FT shown as neutral. I don't think so.
  20. Still

    Still he said his naim was ralph

    What's your vector, Victor?

    You've failed to comprehend the chart. Would you like some assistance?

    It appears you still haven't comprehended the difference between news reports and op/ed pieces.
    Hint: media bias chart evaluates the former, but not the latter.

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