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HM The Queen in tax scandal!

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Arkless Electronics, Nov 5, 2017.

  1. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr pfm Member

    And there we have it. Now we know what Brexit means (apart from Brexit, obvs).
  2. wacko

    wacko pfm Member

    Has the military coup started ? Has Gavin let the promotion go to his head ?
  3. Joe Hutch

    Joe Hutch Mate of the bloke

    Doesn't the Canadian PM merit a mention? Or is he too much of a good guy to qualify?

  4. PsB

    PsB Citizen of Nowhere™

    I thought of adding him in, too, but didn't want to ramble on for too long. Trudeau's aide will have to be content with the "much else besides" category.
  5. glancaster

    glancaster In the silicon vale

    That's a good point. It may be an exaggeration as not all business activity is mobile, but plenty is, particularly for the larger businesses that can afford the big bucks tax lawyers.

    Thing is, for a few million or whatever, people can put up with quite a lot of of tut, tutting from you, Corbyn or whoever. If it gets truly intolerable, the rich can move to somewhere more pleasant, which takes us back to your first point.

    Also, we have to be clear about exactly what we are tut-tutting about. If we are just talking about any form of tax avoidance then are we including using the Married Couple's Allowance, ISAs, inheritance tax planning? Where do you draw the line?

    Finally, you might be surprised what your pension fund is up to. A lot of us find pensions rather boring and don't really understand them, but we may find we are benefitting from tax avoidance schemes without even realising it.

    Kind regards

    - Garry
  6. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr pfm Member

    I'm calling for more than just a bit of tut-tutting though - not that strong public disapproval isn't a powerful weapon mind, look what it did to the News of the World, for example.

    I think there is a distinction to be made between tax rules designed to provide modest help to ordinary individuals (and I think the Married Couples Allowance is extinct?) or 'normal' business support and incentives, and convoluted schemes carefully designed to tread just the right side of the line on an industrial scale.

    As to the pensions thing, I chose my pension provider partly on their performance, and partly on their ethical stance (Wesleyan), just as I chose my bank (Co-Op).
  7. glancaster

    glancaster In the silicon vale


    - News of the World => Sun on Sunday. Were you really fooled by that?

    - Married Couple's Allowance lives: https://www.gov.uk/married-couples-allowance

    - You have to define what is 'normal' and what is not. Even if you do that well, the problem with legal enforcement you already noted, and you have the same problem if, by some chance, your moral enforcement is actually effective.

    Kind regards

    - Garry
  8. droodzilla

    droodzilla pfm Member

    Sounds like a recipe for defeatism. The NHS and other public services are at breaking point. Tax avoidance on this industrial scale costs lives.

    We have to try to close the loopholes, and this has to be an international effort for the reason you identify. The EU is trying to tighten up regulations but - oh dear - we're leaving.
  9. Bob McC

    Bob McC Living the life of Riley

    The Married Couples’ Allowance is far from extinct.

  10. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr pfm Member

    Not fooled by the Sun on Sunday thing, no, but the simple fact that the NoTW was binned rather than fronting it out was, I think, not insignificant.

    Married couple's allowance, OK it technically still exists but it's hardly big time, given that you have to be over 80 to qualify.

    I agree, you have to not only define where the line is, but why, and police it accordingly. Personally, I'd like to see the line drawn somewhere this side of permitting people to artificially move money to somewhere they wouldn't otherwise put it, just to save some tax.

    Actually, I'd like to see a globalised response with some sort of universal Tobin tax on any financial transaction, no matter how small, with the exchequer of the country where the transaction took place receiving the funds therefrom.
  11. glancaster

    glancaster In the silicon vale

    For real? It was the newspaper equivalent of renaming Windscale to Sellafield.

    Ah, my turn to be fooled by a name change. What I actually meant was called Marriage Allowance, which is available to younger folk: https://www.gov.uk/marriage-allowance

    I'm surprised to find the original MCA is still going in parallel, even if only for oldsters.

    Are you still talking about a moral outrage style response or have you moved back to the legal track? You yourself pointed out the downside, very astutely I thought, so perhaps you need to have this discussion with yourself first before posting here?

    (@droodzilla I'm not entirely defeatist about this - I expect some changes could be made that are effective - but we do have to bear in mind the problem that Sue/Steve originally pointed out.)

    Good luck with that one.

    Kind regards

    - Garry
  12. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr pfm Member

    Garry, rather than quote your post, I'll just add a few remarks below.

    Marriage allowance is useful, if your spouse earns below the relevant threshold, and I'd class that as '(very) modest help for individuals' as mentioned upthread. It's not much use to millions of two income families though.

    I think the only solution, due to the problems I identified earlier, is some form of globalised response, whether Tobin tax or something else, so I'll take your good luck wishes as I think we'll need them. But in all honesty, would anything other than a global solution work? And my view is that in order to get from here to there, we need to put pressure on those who benefit from tax havens, so they come round to the view that embracing the new alternative is now preferable to clinging on to the old ways. Whether that is moral or legal pressure, I have no strong preference, though I rather suspect we'll only get the legal if enough of the moral is applied to the lawmakers first.

    As to the NoTW/Sun on Sunday, there was a hiatus before the Sun rose, and no doubt some people felt the pinch for a bit. It's a flea bite, I know, but better than nothing, and I think if I put my mind to it, I could probably think of other, better, examples. Sir Philip Green springs to mind, maybe Gerald Ratner, and I cling to the hope that Donald Trump's business interests might get added to the list at some point.
  13. Arkless Electronics

    Arkless Electronics Trade: Arkless

    Yes big business could just move elsewhere... they will still want to sell to the UK market of 65 million people though and the gov could make it very difficult to impossible for them to trade... pay your taxes or an import tariff of 200% will be added to Apple products for example.

    Something must be done to stop a situation where the poorest can face jail for not being able to pay their poll tax but if you've got a few £M then the gov actually provides you with loopholes to get away with not paying an amount that could cover the poll tax of an entire small town!
  14. wacko

    wacko pfm Member

    A Tobin Tax is a scatter gun approach that will still miss the large scale tax avoiders/evaders.
    Massively simplify the UK tax code.
    Bring in a tax on imputed profit/global profit based on UK sales/global sales.
    Recruit a handful of top tax avoidance experts and put them on a (very small !) % of the consequent tax increases for closing any remaining loopholes. And they may never work in the private sector again so best if they are 55+.
  15. merlin

    merlin Avatar changed - Town names deemed offensive.

    Is this really all the coverage the Paradise Papers are getting here?

    FFS this really should be cause for revolution and the bringing down of the current corrupt system portrayed as democracy.

    It's fairly simple. The current lot regarless of Party aren't going to do anything about it because the very people who fund them are those that are implicated in the leaks.

    This one needs people to take their opportunity, that is provided through social media in the digital age, to bring down the current corrupt system and introduce a new code. It can even be done world wide with enormous charges levied on overseas money transfers and proper scrutiny of overseas investments.

    The reasons that your parents are dying prematurely, that cancer sufferers are in pain and now terminal, that your children in classes of fifty and your streets are unsafe to walk at might has f all to do with the EU or immigrants. It's this lot of crooks thieving from the very communities they profit from with zero regard for the welfare of others.

    So stop whining and get off your arse and do something. I'm, currently looking for an on line pressure group that looks to tackle the issue. If anyone knows one let me know. If there isn't one, I feel strongly enough about this to start one. It's our children and our children's children. We owe it to them.
  16. laughingboy

    laughingboy pfm Member

    You could try 38 degrees. You can sign an online petition about the issue here.
  17. merlin

    merlin Avatar changed - Town names deemed offensive.

    Thanks but the fact that it has taken almost a week to generate 2/3 of the required signatures says it all really. There's little point too in asking Government to do something when they are funded by the very people you are seeking to punish. This needs a different approach if the UK, and indeed the Western World and capitalism, is to retain any semblance of supposed democracy. The system is broken. It knows it's broken. It has no incentive to fix itself.
  18. Joe Hutch

    Joe Hutch Mate of the bloke

    We all need to go to Starbucks with our iPhones and MacBooks that we bought off Amazon, search via Google to find Facebook, log on, and complain about tax-avoiding companies. That'll learn 'em.
    glancaster likes this.
  19. Still

    Still absolute unit

    I'm genuinely worried about Brenda's mental health.
    The ca$h is, after all, all hers - HMRC/Her Britannic Majesties Revenue & Customs.
    istm this is a classic case of self harm/abuse.
  20. Joe Hutch

    Joe Hutch Mate of the bloke

    Yeah, I watched HIGNFY last night, too.

    It's amusing that the Royal Family, whom merlin wants to take over from the present government, is itself implicated in tax avoidance. I expect most of the aristocracy are as well.

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