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How Long Before A Vote Of No Confidence In Johnson Government? II

Discussion in 'off topic' started by ks.234, Aug 26, 2019.

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  1. twotone

    twotone pfm Member

    He will resign as PM but not as leader of the sh!ts.

    I think he'll resign tomorrow.
  2. gavreid

    gavreid pfm Member

    You can't support conflict and war in the name of western imperalism, and not have a plan to help those caught up in it. The UK is still scheming with France to hold people illegally in Calais - a body was found in the Channel only last week. Of course it's racist - is 1% or so of GDP worth all this?
  3. matthewr

    matthewr spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld

    In my summary I was referring to the wealthy -- as in people who are comfortably well off enough to be insulated from the problems and privations of normal people. This goes from middle class people with good jobs, paid off / low mortgages on houses that have appreciated to the "proper rich". By the latter I mean people with enough money to buy a very large house in a nice part of the world, to have hobbies like owning a boat, to have multiple holidays a year, etc.

    (BTW in the UK a lot of the "proper rich" are people who own small businesses -- my wealthy cousin in Surrey is surrounded by people who, say, own a couple of hairdresser shops, a guy who makes dental appliances, a bloke who runs a hydro-formed CNC business, etc.)

    In addition through my job I have known over the years, relatively speaking, quite a lot of wealthy people.

    Of these wealthy people I know literally none of them are like Steve Bannon. They are predominantly Tory / centre right, favour low taxation, low regulation, etc. They are all also almost all against Brexit mostly from a bad for business point of view. This is who I was referring to in my previous post.

    The "ultra wealthy elite" is a bit different although I would be amazed if most of them are like Bannon. Rather I think it's a case that being billionaire level wealthy allows people to indulge whatever it is they feel passionate about. For this reason this level of wealth is generally unhealthy for society and gets dangerous when it belongs to people with weird politics (Bannon, Robert Mercer) etc. But I don't think the extreme wealth makes people like Bannon, Mercer or the Koch brothers.
    wacko likes this.
  4. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    If you’d like to modify your claim to HMG Home Office is institutionally racist, you might find more evidence to back your claim.
    ff1d1l likes this.
  5. gavreid

    gavreid pfm Member

    It's the EU turn a blind eye to the Home Office and the UK government
  6. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

  7. tiggers

    tiggers pfm Member

    Welcome to a dictatorship. This is what happens when you have a broken electoral system, an electorate who at worst get upset and whinge on Facebook and a PM who is an egotistical deranged borderline fascist. Maybe Iraq will come to our aid and launch a military operation to force a regime change.
  8. gavreid

    gavreid pfm Member

    The EU is bending over backwards to prevent refugees from entering the core EU countries. Out of sight out of mind I suppose.

    This a very good read.

    "Many on the Left see the European Union as a fundamentally benign project with the potential to underpin ever greater cooperation and progress. If it has drifted rightward, the answer is to fight for reform from within. In this iconoclastic polemic, economist Costas Lapavitsas demolishes this view...Lapavitsas's powerful manifesto for a left opposition to the EU upends the wishful thinking that often characterizes the debate and will be a challenging read for all on the Left interested in the future of Europe."

  9. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr Staying alert

    The EU has no ‘competence’ in individual member states’ immigration matters, so it’s not a question of a ‘blind eye’ it’s a simple matter of no legal power to intervene.
    PsB likes this.
  10. gavreid

    gavreid pfm Member

    They have an obligation to protect refugees - it's not about immigration.
  11. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr Staying alert

    Forgive me if I misunderstood, but you seem to be conflating immigration policy with refugee policy though.

    And how are they to influence the UK Home Office, when they have no powers to dictate anything as to domestic immigration policy or practice? And the refugees arrive in the UK having landed elsewhere in the EU. The rules say the first receiving member state deals with them, so Italy, Greece, Spain or France at a pinch; how would the EU sticking its oar in where it cannot, in UK matters, change things?
    Covkxw likes this.
  12. gavreid

    gavreid pfm Member

    It was Dec actually who raised the home office etc. I was clear in arguing that the treatment of refugees (1/3 are said to be unaccompanied children seeking to join their families) is racist
  13. gavreid

    gavreid pfm Member

    BTW all immigration laws are racist - I hope were not arguing about the basics.
  14. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr Staying alert

    Perhaps, but I was challenging what you said about the Home Office, not what Dec said. It doesn’t really matter who first mentioned them.

    And no, we’re not arguing about the basics, I’m happy to accept for the sake of argument that immigration control is at its heart racist in principle. But given that, it seems unfair to label the EU as racist, when it is the member states which enact the policies, what with the EU not having competence and all.
  15. gavreid

    gavreid pfm Member

    Good because those arguments quickly become indistinguishable from the language of x or y being 'swamped', which is just Enoch Powell or Thatcher.

    I write small posts because of my cognitive problems, I accept that there are a lot of assumptions there. Are you arguing that the EUs handling of refugees i.e. letting people drown in the Med by the boat load is not racist, which was point? I'm not following that bit I'm sorry - I thought that Dec was excusing it by saying that Germany took in a lot of refugees in the past.
  16. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr Staying alert

    No, I’m arguing that that is not EU policy, but down to the Italians, etc. So it’s unfair to use it as a stick to beat the EU with.
  17. gavreid

    gavreid pfm Member

    I'm arguing that the EU has a responsibility regardless of whether Italy is a racist state. Here's Human Rights Watch

  18. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr Staying alert

    I’ve only skimmed that hrw piece, but it mostly seems to be blaming the EU for failings of the member states’ practices. What am I missing?
  19. maxflinn

    maxflinn pfm Member

  20. gavreid

    gavreid pfm Member

    The EU has developed deliberately obstructive policies - that I'm stating are inherently racist. I appreciate that it's uncomfortable but there's no way around it. Read the Lapavitsas book on why the EU can't be reformed.
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