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I, Daniel Blake

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Gerard124, Oct 29, 2016.

  1. clivem2

    clivem2 pfm Member

    The way it's set up it doesn't. I don't believe I've said it does. See my post above from 11:35am today which will give you a view as to my thoughts.
  2. clivem2

    clivem2 pfm Member

    I get the feeling that some here sense that I may not be on benefits so my views are somehow not worthy. I'm not a socialist btw but like to think I have a social conscience....with no political affiliation, just exasperation with most politicians.
  3. Ragaman

    Ragaman pfm Member

    Matters not what you or i think unfortunately, reality is, it is being rolled out over the next few years, will take many years to put this system back in order if someone else took charge, the amount of destruction caused in this time will never be remedied for many who are currently claiming. All those who work in this area can do is pick up the pieces of what this government have created over the last 8 years, it's very sad & not enough for many unfortunately.
  4. Ragaman

    Ragaman pfm Member

    You're taking interest, that's as much as anyone can ask for. You don't need to be on benefits to see what is happening to this country. The rise in homelessness & poverty owe a great deal to the current system, problem is, very few give a shit TBH. There are many out in the country who do, obviously but it's not enough, all they can do is treat the symptoms.
  5. Arkless Electronics

    Arkless Electronics Trade: Amp design and repairs.

    This is why the single most important issue in UK politics is getting Corbyn into power! Unless this happens I see nothing but a dark future for all the most vulnerable and poorest people in the country as Tory scum gets ever nearer workhouses or Soylent Green!
    Steve Taylor likes this.
  6. Darmok

    Darmok "A Priori Teleology."

  7. Mike Hughes

    Mike Hughes pfm Member

    I’m afraid that my dislike of “no wrong door” et al is that they are exactly the sort of “concepts” which appeal to a certain type of person with a head full of theories about how magical the world could be if we were all just all a little bit more positive and worked together. The reality of such conceits for those of us in the front line is that they are abject theoretical nonsense. The evidence base against such ideas has been amassed over many decades and overwhelmingly shows they are nonsense which simply does not and never could work. In no case was it lack of funding. There simply isn’t enough time in the world for a speech therapist to learn when to give advice on something completely out of their remit or make a referral to housing or welfare rights is appropriate or many other scenarios. Only politicians and idiots want this. The public and professionals do not want, need or benefit from it at all.

    You’re changing your argument as you go along here. You talked of root causes with an example of someone needing HB because they didn’t have a job. I described that specifc point as banal and not rooted in the reality that most poverty in the UK is in work poverty. Lack of a job is not actually the main cause of poverty. You’ve now moved the goalposts to suggest that what you were really saying was talking about people not earning enough to het high quality housing. Eh! Where was that again?

    Back onto UC where you have of course neatly sidestepped the fact that your assertion that UC is a “better way” to go about health and social care programmes bears no relationship to the reality of why it was created; what it’s doing etc. I’ve yet to read you posting a single specific reason to justify such a patently ludicrous assertion.

    UC is not a building block towards integrating health and social care and never will be. It is systemic state sanctioned poverty. That’s before we even get onto your assumption that such integrity in is desirable whereas beyond the fact it’s what we’re starting to do there’s no evidence base at all to suggest it a good thing. It has the empirical solidity of “no wrong door” i.e. none. It sounds good and... we’ll thats it really. Baby Peter was the ultimate example of just how badly it works when people with ideologically driven theiries get to put them into practising by integrating
  8. clivem2

    clivem2 pfm Member

    ISTM you're the proverbial man drowning in a swamp full of alligators, clearly all you want to think about is the most important issue that you face. My response to I, Daniel Blake (which was not is about UC) is about draining the swamp.

    Here's my first post in this thread.

    My underlying proposition is that people in work should not need to be on benefits, they should be paid enough and their housing costs in particular should not be as we often see today. Unless we as a society get this right we'll end up building systems and processes to cater for people who purely need financial help - the social systems and processes should in my view be there for all people that need help yes...but these should be mainly people who have "more complex" needs. For the welfare system to be bailing out industry which is not paying people enough and as a response to the housing market is wrong. Of course it has to be done for now but let's fix the societal issues.

    Re "no wrong door", it sounds like you have indeed seen a very poor attempt at it. Other countries don't see it as one person can be an expert in all disciplines, they simply recognise some key aspects as can re-direct as needs be. Crucially they have access to the person's complete social records so they get the full picture not a blurry snapshot cut into pieces.

    The public sector is the very worst in terms of delivering new systems and processes. Naturally some of this is down to political meddling but a lot of is is due to far, far too many meddling managers having to get their pet idea included. This is at the heart of why a massive System Integrator refused to work on a major NHS program, the NHS couldn't be tough enough to prevent severe scope creep.

    You may not like people thinking about the big issues but unless we have a direction set then plastering over cracks will only make for a horribly unreliable and fragmented system.

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