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Koetsu rebuild

Discussion in 'audio' started by divedeepdog, Apr 16, 2018.

  1. divedeepdog

    divedeepdog pfm Member

    I've got a broken Koetsu, will a rebuild (by Goldring) still have Koetsu traits or just sound like a re-tipped 103?

    The alternative cashing it in and buying something different?
     
  2. mjw

    mjw pfm Member

    Which model, Mark?
     
  3. divedeepdog

    divedeepdog pfm Member

    Rosewood Sig, its not Mickey's :D, on a deck I picked up at the weekend.
     
  4. mjw

    mjw pfm Member

    That’s the model I have. I don’t have experience but did some online research in case. The overwhelming feeling is that once it’s been rebuilt elsewhere, it’s ‘no longer a Koetsu’. But surely that holds true for all makes. That said, if you punt over £5k on one of the stone jobs or similar then sending it back to Koetsu for a rebuild is probably not an issue (other than the wait).
    My reading was that the North West(?) rebuilder gets them sounding as like the original, which is probably important if you like that sound.
     
  5. GJO

    GJO pfm Member

  6. YNWOAN

    YNWOAN 100% Analogue

    The FG2 is certainly a quite different profile than the one Koetsu fit.
     
  7. divedeepdog

    divedeepdog pfm Member

    I don't want to get into why, but its Goldring or no-one for me...

    I've never heard a strait Koetsu, however Mickey's was the best cart I've heard at home, but I believe its been worked on?
     
  8. GJO

    GJO pfm Member

    I e-mailed Goldring at the time,they told me they couldn't do it,hence sending mine to NWA.
     
  9. thebiglebowski

    thebiglebowski pfm Member

    If it's a Koetsu and your choice is Goldring or no-one then I'd say no-one and sell it as spares/repair for someone else. If you don't intend on ever selling it then Goldring may be an option but Koetsus really need to be rebuilt by them in order for it to hold its value.
     
  10. lencotweaker

    lencotweaker pfm Member

    Koetsu preferably or NWA as a second choice for me on a Rosewood Sig. Worth it though as these are lovely carts with loads of character.
     
  11. YNWOAN

    YNWOAN 100% Analogue

    If I were in your position I would also go Goldring (who I know do get a lot of Koetsu carts). You can also discuss with them how radical, or close to original, you want to go. When Andrew (Flatpopely) had his Asaka rebuilt by them he chose to keep it close to standard but I purposefully chose a different path when they did my black Troika.
     
  12. wylton

    wylton pfm Member

    I assume that was because they were too busy at the time, generally though, they will let you know when they are able to accept new work. There are some carts they can't do but AFAIK, the Koetsu isn't one of them
     
  13. divedeepdog

    divedeepdog pfm Member

    I have no idea of history apart from original receipt, £464 in 1984, and no cantilever so it'll be whole service/rebuild.

    'Replace the cantilever and diamond with a new Ruby GS fine line' has been suggested where that sits with original I have no idea?
    My original point was if I had that same cantilever and tip fitted to a 103, would they sound the same, or is there something in the Koetsu (wood body?) that makes them sound nice?
     
  14. lencotweaker

    lencotweaker pfm Member

    I had a 103R in a modded body and a Koetsu Rosewood Sig at the same time and compared to an Esco modded 103 (Ruby/Paratrace) and I can tell you that modded 103's are not Koetsu's on the cheap. Not by a long way.
     
    sq225917 likes this.
  15. sls4321

    sls4321 pfm Member

    I had a Koetsu Urushi done by Van den Hul. Cost £500 and got a really nice cart out of it and it does the business. You can call it Koetsu or Mickey Mouse, end of the day it sounds great and hopefully will last a long time.

    Dom at NWA tried to hard sell me, £1,500+, for £2,300 I could send it back to Koetsu and it would have come back as new, certified.
     
  16. YNWOAN

    YNWOAN 100% Analogue

    £1500.00 is, by far, the most expensive re-tip service in the UK. When I had my Black Troika rebuilt by Goldring it was £400 (may have been £450) and included a rewind of the coils (silver was an option), a ruby cantilever and the top Gyger stylus!
     
  17. divedeepdog

    divedeepdog pfm Member

    By all accounts going back to Japan will cost over £2k, too much for me.

    Changing tack, what’s a knackered Red Sig worth ?
     
  18. YNWOAN

    YNWOAN 100% Analogue

    I’m not sure what you mean here Mark. Certainly the cantilever material and stylus profile are important but so are many other aspects of design when it comes to voicing a cartridge. For example;

    1/ The wire used for the coils
    2/ The number of turns in the coils (see above and diameter of said wire)
    3/ The material the coil armature is made from
    4/ The shape of the coil armature
    5/ The exact damper material used
    6/ The tension of the tie wire
    7/ the shape of the magnets/magnet field
    8/ The strength of the magnets
    9/ The shape and position of the pole piece
    Etc. Etc.....
     
  19. YNWOAN

    YNWOAN 100% Analogue

    As an example, I’ve owned a number of Troikas and currently have two. One has the original aluminium cantilever and a Paratrace stylus (Expert Stylus Company) and the other has a ruby cantilever and Gyger S stylus. The Gyger equipped model sounds more open and with greater leading edge attack - but the basic bones of the sound is the same between the two.
     
  20. andrewhockley

    andrewhockley pfm Member

    On the question of "what is a red signature worth" - depends on what's wrong with it I'd say. If its working and plays well but has high hours and doesn't track - maybe £300 to £400.
    But properly broken, no cantilever etc, I think its probably worth very little. Maybe Koetsu offer a trade up scheme that would make it worth more?
    Signatures and the standard Red are different sizes btw, so even if the receipt doesn't say, you should be able to prove what it is. Length Standard Red T: 2.2cm. Red K Signature: 2.4cm. Theres a market for the box and stylus guard if you have them BTW.
     

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