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Labour at it again... anti-Semitism... #II

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Stunsworth, Jul 7, 2019.

  1. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    When Labour officials or member object to legitimate criticism by imputing bad faith to the critic, that's deflection. When they defend themselves against slurs and misrepresentation, that's wholly justifiable.
    Do you mean the BBC? Because it's not a poster child for how to eliminate racism is it? ISTM that you of all people ought to be able to acknowledge that eliminating racism from a large organisation is not actually possible, and to pretend that it is hampers efforts to challenge and minimise it, which is necessarily a work in progress.
    Your obsessive smearing of a young trans woman illustrates your own point perfectly. It's hard to assume good faith on your part when your criticisms of Labour seem to be more or less interchangeable - and when your chief bugbear is so ugly.
     
  2. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    Name me a workplace where people become employees by filling in a form and setting up a direct debit, and are not paid. The Labour Party has half a million random members of the public in it. FFS.
     
  3. stevec67

    stevec67 pfm Member

    I'm talking about officials, as you well know. FFS.

    For members of the LP who are not officials, it's easier still. "These are not the views of the LP. The LP does not endorse these views."
     
    jackbarron and Still like this.
  4. Still

    Still he said his naim was ralph

    I agree, although istm some alleged BBC "slurs and misrepresentation" are no such thing.

    ime in my department racism, homophobia and to some extent misogyny were not tolerated.
    As a staff rep' I was directly involved in a number of cases where employees lost their jobs as a direct result of such ignorance.

    Of course Auntie was enormous (still quite big), and isn't perfect.
    Indeed I'm waiting for you to ask for more information about this on the 'here is the news' thread.

    It's not a smear. Lily Madigan has conducted herself in an aggressively misogynistic manner on numerous occasions.
    imo/e there's currently a lot of misogyny in Labour.
    istm the same half arsed efforts to facilitate progress that resulted this are also at the root of the anti-Semitism omnishambles.

    Trampling marginalised groups in a half arsed attempt to lift a marginalised group isn't liberation. It's more oppression.
    This equally applies to amongst others Jews and women.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
  5. Woodface

    Woodface pfm Member

    There was a general reaction that it was a sham, I have no view on it either way. I was just trying to illustrate how people believe what they want to.
     
    Still likes this.
  6. thebiglebowski

    thebiglebowski pfm Member

    I thought it was a good report with a good approach to resolving issues without overly pointing fingers or applying blame. She said there was an issue and it could be resolved by recommendations a, b, c etc.

    It was unfortunate that not only did the tories and others attack her and the report but Labour members did as well.

    I've noticed in the last few years that with Corbyn and more militant/marxist type lefties joining there has been a shift in attitude which IMHO comes from support for Palestine against Israel and manifests as a hatred for Israel and anything associated with it i.e jews.
     
  7. ks.234

    ks.234 pfm Member

    I don’t like smilies. And I don’t have a sense of humour :(:(:(:(;):(:(:(:(
     
    Still likes this.
  8. jackbarron

    jackbarron Chelsea, London

    Yeah we are. He's going to help me to put an SSD and a USB drive into a Mac Mini.

    Jack
     
    JonR likes this.
  9. ks.234

    ks.234 pfm Member

    Except he’ll be putting it in the wrong way round now...
     
    jackbarron likes this.
  10. Still

    Still he said his naim was ralph

    Not if eradication of anti-Semitism has a lower priority then it should, doing so would have unacceptable consequences for the leadership/party, etc.
     
    doctorf likes this.
  11. jackbarron

    jackbarron Chelsea, London

    That definitely won't happen. I haven't drunk any alcohol for 24 years. He'll probably try and feed me some of his minging green tea instead.

    Jack
     
    ff1d1l and Still like this.
  12. JonR

    JonR Brainwashed Bloke

    Interesting. I'd quite like to put an SSD into my 2010 MacBook, but I'd need to be brave...
     
  13. jackbarron

    jackbarron Chelsea, London

    My guess is you would get a speed bump. SSDs are definitely getting cheaper.

    Jack
     
  14. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    Can I ask how you came to notice this?
     
  15. lordsummit

    lordsummit Moderator

    This is disingenuous at the least. When you join the party you give your money to further their ideals, and agree to uphold their principles. If you don’t, you should be out. It’s not hard. Well, it seems to be unless you’re Alistair Campbell.
     
    ff1d1l and Still like this.
  16. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    I agree. But managing that? The social media output of 100s of thousands of people? Hard enough without people deliberately blurring the line between members and non-members. And then what do you do with the stuff that's not actually antisemitic but a bit whiffy, when we're talking about ordinary members of the public, very likely politically inexperienced? Wouldn't education be better than excluding them from political participation, and the chance to learn, contribute? There's some stuff on this thread alone that is of this nature, and it's not from Labour members. Are you going to ban them? It's in your gift.
     
  17. Still

    Still he said his naim was ralph

    Can I ask if you used the pfm report function to alert the mods?
     
  18. stephen bennett

    stephen bennett Mr Enigma

    Come on still. This is attempting to shut down an argument in the same way the use of ‘virtue signalling’ is. Plus you ignored the context in which I made it.

    The BBC commission a biased programme about Labour yet allow pretty much free reign to the Brexit company on their news outlets. And it does matter that there is/has been no Conservative investigation especially as we are having a Johnson coronation.

    The BBC could have made an unbiased programme about racism in political parties/companies. Yet they did not do this.

    I assume you’ve seen the reporting on the programme and the revelations about the producer and contributors? This doesn’t bother you?

    Stephen
     
    Covkxw likes this.
  19. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    I've said often enough that I think overestimating the influence of Israel, and in particular blaming Labour's woes on the Israel lobby, is borderline at best (and lets the UK off the hook). It can earn you a suspension at least from Labour in the wrong circumstances. But I wouldn't condemn anyone for stating those views, I think it's a dangerous misunderstanding of the situation rather than outright antisemitism, and it's really not up to me to police it on PFM, beyond my usual finger-wagging. But Labour officials regularly have to say, Well, what should we do with this guy? for stating exactly these views, in person or on social media.

    I just don't think that's as easy as some people make out, and the proof of it is that a moderator here, who has clear views about antisemitism and about what Labour should do about it, is actually much more lax than Labour in dealing with this kind of thing, and this is with a handful of people, not hundreds of thousands.
     
  20. Mullardman

    Mullardman Moderately extreme...

    ISTM that you posted the above in response to this from me:

    I stand by what I say because I do not believe that AS is a widespread 'thing' within Labour, but do not and cannot categorically say that there is no AS within Labour.
    ISTM that quite apart from the confusion created by the failure on the part of many to differentiate between 'anti Semitic' and 'anti Israeli'.. Labour's biggest problem is in dealing with the notion of AS within its ranks.

    'When did you stop beating your wife' can be a hellish question to deal with.
     
    Brian and Arkless Electronics like this.

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