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Labour at it again... anti-Semitism... #II

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Stunsworth, Jul 7, 2019.

  1. jackbarron

    jackbarron Chelsea, London

    We've been through this argument before and Channel 4 were obviously wrong in their conjecture. You obviously have a problem understanding this, because you're a troll or perhaps thick.

    Show me a speech where Corbyn says there will be a second referendum, with Remain as a choice, if Labour get into power and negotiate a Brexit deal. He specifically hasn't said this, despite being pressed by journalists.

    I've just watched Rebecca Long-Bailey being interviewed. The upshot is Labour will continue to sit on the fence and lose votes.

    I won't bother answering any more of your posts, because it's a waste of time.

    Jack
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
    lordsummit, Woodface and Still like this.
  2. maxflinn

    maxflinn pfm Member

    It seems this Collier character is a virulent racist, Sean:

    How racist blogger David Collier infiltrated the Labour Party

    Collier’s blog contains a considerable amount of virulently anti-Palestinian racism.

    A panel discussion he took part in last year gives a flavor of his disturbing views.

    Collier said that “the Palestinian refugee” – dehumanized as an “it” – was “a weapon” which was “created as an artificial entity.”

    Echoing the typical racist language of hard-right Islamophobes, he said that “as demographics have changed in the West this weapon has taken up camp here [in the UK] too.” Palestinian refugees in the UK lead the boycott, divestment and sanctions movement against Israel, he complained.
     
  3. Still

    Still he said his naim was ralph

    Sounds like you two need your heads banging together.

    good idea
     
  4. Joe Hutch

    Joe Hutch Mate of the bloke

    Never mind all that. Is stenography a dying art, or what?
     
    Still likes this.
  5. Brian

    Brian Eating fat, staying slim

    Drivel.
     
  6. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK Waiting for the streetcar..

    Sean, thanks for your reply but I have to admit a degree of confusion on my part over this sentence. The Tories (right wing) have been in power since 2010, the Brexit Party (very right wing) did extremely well in recent elections, Lib Dems (by your own description, a bit right wing) are increasing their presence in the HOC and Labour (left wing) have done pretty poorly in elections since 2017 so in what way are the right wing "very very bad at politics"?
     
    Woodface likes this.
  7. ks.234

    ks.234 pfm Member

    Thanks for getting back to me, there are a few points in my thinking I’d like to try and clarify

    The ‘where we are now’ I was on about was not just Brexit, but the whole right wing attack on pay and conditions and public services. Yes, Brexit is not the product of austerity alone, but I feel that the right wing ideology has provided a breeding ground for the permissive loathing of others that characterises Brexit. It provides a scapegoat for people to blame for the position that austerity has put them in.

    No, not suggesting more left wing policies, not sure what they might be to be honest. The only additions I’d like to see to the manifesto is a full blooded commitment to Remain and a full frontal attack on Leave. I’ll settle for the first.

    Yes, I’ve seen that too, but they’re obviously not happy with the changes Corbyn had brought about. They’re entitled to their opinions.

    No matter how utterly wrong they are!

    Yes, I’ve been involved with political parties and my trade union for some time, and the processes are labyrinthine, but I prefer that to delegating power to men in nicely ironed shirts and expensive suits. I feel another reason why we are where we are is that we put too much trust in well dressed lizards. Perhaps we need to be prepared to take more responsibility for decision making ourselves. I like the idea of citizen assemblies. They’d be hard work, and possibly a bit slow, but they would be far more democratic and a real step forward in actually taking back control.

    As I’ve said somewhere else, where we are now is where we’re faced with a choice between Johnson, Swinson, Corbyn, or a minority party. All are legitimate choices, but if you want to get rid of austerity, creeping privatisation, poor public services, and a likely right wing coalition headed by a tousle haired PM who’s a proven liar and a charlatan, there’s only one choice.

    The first step is to get rid of the Tories. If Corbyn turns out to be as bad as some people say, at least we’ll have achieved the primary, and oh so essential, objective

    Four pints of Summer Lightning will cure that!
     
    Covkxw and Seeker_UK like this.
  8. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK Waiting for the streetcar..

    In an ideal world the Electorate ought to see it that way but to go back to one of my original points, the reception by the majority of the Electorate is clearly, "Yeah but Corbyn." I can't believe that Labour couldn't scare up a new leader from its ranks as a more attractive face of their policies.
     
  9. doctorf

    doctorf left footed right winger

    Perhaps it’s the policies that people don’t like?
     
  10. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK Waiting for the streetcar..

    Perhaps but IMHO, the policies are less of an issue than with voters than JC (or their impression of him). I've read through their manifesto and I struggle to see anything in there that wouldn't appeal to the majority of the Electorate. There may be something I've missed or I'm not in tune with the UK voting population so I stand ready to be shown otherwise. What do you think would turn the majority off?

    https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/labour-manifesto-2017.pdf
     
  11. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    I mean the right wing of Labour. If they were better at politics they'd have persuaded their own members to support them, or would have done a better job of forming a new party when they split. As it happens I don't the right in other parties are master strategists either, and tit seems to me they're dying on their feet; but they're still more than capable of running rings around the likes of Tom Watson and Wes Streeting.
     
    Seeker_UK likes this.
  12. doctorf

    doctorf left footed right winger

    Left of centre policies turn me off generally. I can’t speak for the rest of the population.
     
  13. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    If by "people" you mean a bunch of entitled right wing Labour MPs, the other parties, the press and people who wouldn't dream of voting Labour in the first place, then you may be on to something.
     
    maxflinn likes this.
  14. ks.234

    ks.234 pfm Member

    Such as...?
     
  15. doctorf

    doctorf left footed right winger

    Lack of ambition.
    Dislike of excellence.
    Dislike of competition.
    Dislike of success.
    You get the drift.
     
  16. kendo

    kendo Prussian bot

    Can you explain the Labour Party's pre-Corbyn demise in Scotland?
     
  17. ks.234

    ks.234 pfm Member

    Yes, I get the gibberish, sorry, drift
     
    PhilofCas likes this.
  18. Stunsworth

    Stunsworth pfm Member

    So how have they done post Corbyn?
     
  19. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    Well, they went from 1 seat to 7.

    Not exactly a glorious re-birth, but as with antisemitism, anyone blaming this long term problem on Corbyn probably has an agenda.
     
  20. Stunsworth

    Stunsworth pfm Member

    Not blaming Corbyn, just making the point that the unpopularity of Labour in Scotland (something that was unthinkable at one time) isn't a product of the Labour party leadership being left or right. I realise politics is a complicated business.
     

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