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Labour at it again... anti-Semitism... #II

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Stunsworth, Jul 7, 2019.

  1. ks.234

    ks.234 pfm Member

    Yes, I agree. I too would like more info on NDAs. It is not clear if we’re talking about actual NDAs or the normal clauses in employers contracts about confidentiality and bringing the employers into disrepute that everyone signs without too much thought. I know from my own experience of handling union membership lists that they are the sort of thing that employers get very very twitchy about because of new data rules etc.

    Not sure about investigative journalism though. Let’s remember that the antisemitism row started with info leaked from Iain McNicol’s office. I don’t blame the journalists for jumping on it as it obviously makes their job easy. Proper investigative journalism is a bit bit difficult though and requires a more work. For example, it would be interesting to see if, instead of waiting for a an internal leak from Tory Central Office about Islamophobia in the Tory party, a few journalists investigated the complaints themselves, doing some analysis and providing some context as Sean suggests. Then we could look at Islamophobia and antisemitism in context and compare and contrast. That way we’d get a better idea of how racism infects political systems more generally and be in a much better position to tackle it wherever it raises its ugly head.
    Covkxw likes this.
  2. Still

    Still he said his naim was ralph

    I take your points, but istm investigative journalism is about shining a light on something which those with nefarious intent want to keep in the shadows.
    Getting distracted by relatively minor details risks missing the point, and can appear to be deflection.
    This isn't a criticism, but istm an important point b/c it has real potential to be self defeating for Lab.

    fwiw I was still working for the BBC when the full horror of Savile was revealed.
    It was extremely grim on a personal level, but I welcomed the truth being revealed.

    It is part of human nature to hate.

    aka shooting the messenger
  3. cooky1257

    cooky1257 pfm Member

    Misrepresenting the Milne quote does make me question the integrity of the 'investigation'.
    In one email from 10 March 2018, the programme alleges that Milne calls for a review of the disciplinary process regarding antisemitic complaints, saying: “Something’s going wrong, and we’re muddling up political disputes with racism ... I think going forward we need to review where and how we’re drawing the line.”
    The full Milne quote read: “But if we’re more than very occasionally using disciplinary action against Jewish members for antisemitism, something’s going wrong, and we’re muddling up political disputes with racism.”

    If as we are lead to understand proving Labour has a problem with anti semitism is a slam dunk(it clearly does have a problem), why the need to misquote, to misrepresent?
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
    ks.234 likes this.
  4. ks.234

    ks.234 pfm Member

    Yes, that’s the email which Sam Matthews says he interpreted as an order from Milne. Doesn’t look like it to me. From what the Guardian lady said this morning, it was an email responding to a request from Matthews who was seeking guidance from Milne while there was no General Secretary in place
  5. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    I said earlier that it's interesting to see what kinds of racism you don't have to apologise for. It's also interesting to see which kinds of institutions are never expected to engage in any kind of self-reflection, let alone self-criticism or self-reform, with regard to racism or anything else. Media professionals are absurdly thin-skinned: the very suggestion that journalistic practices typically fall short of journalistic values, let alone that those values might themselves be overdue a review, is invariably met with the accusation above. Plus, now, "Trumpian!" If you think stenography is the acme of journalism you have much less faith in the profession than I do.
  6. Still

    Still he said his naim was ralph

    It appears I have miserably failed to represent my related opinions to you :=)

    To avoid going off topic please pop in/contribute here: https://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/here-is-the-news.229831/
  7. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    This was already a front page splash, what, 3 or 4 months ago? When this lot were voted out they had access to years of emails. If they're still recycling this not hugely damaging stuff it does suggest that there's not much there.
    Cav and ks.234 like this.
  8. Woodface

    Woodface pfm Member

    It is worth pointing out that emails are often misinterpreted, it is always better to have a phone conversation or a minuted meeting. I read the email in question as admitting there was/is a problem & that it is not being dealt with very well?
    Still likes this.
  9. Brian

    Brian Eating fat, staying slim

    In the grand scheme of things it's not important, it's just another diversion from the mess caused by 9 years of tory mismanagement of just about everything. What is more interesting is why a supposedly impartial organisation such as the BBC spends much of it's time ignoring how the tories have decimated public services, ignores their mismangement of the economy and ignores how the tories have turned the UK into a laughing stock pretty much across Europe and beyond.

    Can you give an example of what you believe to be an extreme policy? Here is a link to the Labour manifesto https://labour.org.uk/manifesto/
  10. Tim Jones

    Tim Jones pfm Member

    Who isn't apologising for a "kind" of racism? Is that aimed at me? Or the BBC? Your swerves and convolutions are building as you try to justify your position to yourself.

    The LP's response to this, and other stories, have quite distinctive traits in common with the Trump administration; and the causes are the same. The media reports what you don't/won't/can't hear - often based on testimony from within your organisation. And the response is to go after those who report it.
  11. Woodface

    Woodface pfm Member

    The BBC always has to tread a little carefully around the current government regardless of hue.
    Still likes this.
  12. flatpopely

    flatpopely Prog Rock/Moderator

    Brian it's important if you have an interest in the Labour party winning a GE. The vast majority of the electorate form their opinons from info delivered by mainstream news, that's not painting a good picture of Labour wrt to AS.
    Still likes this.
  13. sq225917

    sq225917 situation engineer

    If only the right wing didnt hold the mainstream press in tow.
    Covkxw likes this.
  14. stephen bennett

    stephen bennett Mr Enigma

    Looking forward to the Panorama programme on institutional Islamophobia and other racism in the Conservative party. Then the one on Brexit inc. as well.

    When are they on?

    ff1d1l, Brian and Covkxw like this.
  15. Robert

    Robert Tapehead

    I would agree Brian.

    This is about extablishment fear of a potentially radical government of the left challenging established power and wealth.
    The whole AS thing is simply another device, following three failed coups, to topple Corbyn and his leadership team, to be replaced by a 'safe' leader - safe as in part of the establishment, a figure like Watson is the perfect fit bacuse Labour has it's fair share of establishment stooges

    The Manifesto is pretty tame because it's the product of the Labour Party in transition from the old Blair/Brown Tory Lite epoch into a new and more radical socialist party - if it ever gets there!

    The establishment doesn't fear the Labour manifesto, it fears Corbyn and the radicals driving the future agenda of the Party.
    ks.234 and Brian like this.
  16. flatpopely

    flatpopely Prog Rock/Moderator

    Will Labour ever beat the 'establishment'? If it's not a realistic chance then they need to wake up and smell the roses and see what the lack of unity is doing to their image and party.
    bob atherton likes this.
  17. Still

    Still he said his naim was ralph

    A significant chuck of Labour is the establishment.

    Close, but no cigar (link)

    whataboutism akimbo continues?

    Of course Islamophobia in Con P is such a big problem it wouldn't fit in to even a one hour Panorama special!
    Joking aside istm certain Auntie will continue to pay close attention to this.

    You want a Panorama ep' on Brexit? We got that some time ago: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0c2pnh5
    stephen bennett likes this.
  18. Brian

    Brian Eating fat, staying slim

    Yes, I agree the majority form their opinion based on info from the mainstream media. That's a big problem when the mainstream media, especially the BBC is so bad.

    My point is, if the BBC was doing its job properly, it wouldn't be important to the majority of the electorate when compared to what the tories have been doing since 2010. They just don't bother reporting that.
  19. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    The Labour Party's response to revelations regarding antisemitism and other forms of racism has been to commission a thoroughgoing inquiry and overhaul its entire disciplinary apparatus. The reflexive comparison with Trump's operation is embarrassing, frankly.

    It's right that Labour have accepted there's a problem with antisemitism. But they're not obliged to then 'fess up to any random accusations that are thrown at them, or to organise their reforms around leaks and hit-jobs. The correct response to a hatchet job is to say, "That's a hatchet job," while getting on with the things that need to be done.

    Yes, my earlier point about certain kinds of racism not requiring an apology was in reply to your encomium to John Ware. I asked if you didn't think such support should be qualified, given his penchant for Islamophobic program-making. Response: shrug. To concede that, well, maybe there are things that might have been handled differently, would have been to give in to Trumpian populism, I guess.
    Cav, jackbarron and ks.234 like this.
  20. SteveT

    SteveT pfm Member

    They should appoint an independent body headed up by someone well known and well respected for being impartial, competent and at the forefront of Human Rights. Perhaps someone from Amnesty International for example. They could produce a Report that would put an end to all these scurrilous accusations once and for all. Shami Chakrabarti would be an ideal candidate IMHO.
    Tim Jones likes this.

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