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Labour at it again... anti-Semitism... #II

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Stunsworth, Jul 7, 2019.

  1. maxflinn

    maxflinn pfm Member

    Extreme right-wing Likud Party passes pro-Israeli atrocity-denying propaganda to Labour group for dissemination.

    And this is OK with some people?
  2. Still

    Still he said his naim was ralph

    The leader of Labour MEPs has defended himself over a pattern of approving tweets that minimised Labour's antisemitism crisis - only to lash out at the campaigner who accused him. "[You] leap to conclusions on the basis of totally incorrect assumption" MEP Richard Corbett said of the man who tweets as @NudderingNudnik, accusing him of trying "to find fault wherever he can with Jeremy Corbyn in particular and other Labour members from time to time. "His target is not fighting antisemitism, but discrediting the Labour Party, and doing so not by rational argument, but by deliberate distortion." Nudnik noted that Mr Corbett had liked tweets including one that attacked a Jewish woman who was interviewed for BBC Panorama's expose of antisemitism, a tweet attacking the Tories by the editor of pro-Corbyn website the Canary and another tweet by Scott Nelson, the Labour activist expelled after he tweeted about companies having "Jewish blood". "He tried to hush me up," Nudnik replied after Mr Corbett attacked him. "If folk like me didn't keep drawing attention to it, there wouldn't be a problem anymore would there?" He wrote that Mr Corbett was one of two people, along with journalist Owen Jones, to "respond to measured & evidenced concern about racism by writing a blog piece attacking the victim of said racism (me)."


    Wokementum have yet to comprehend realpolitik.
  3. cooky1257

    cooky1257 pfm Member

    So evidence is presented that substantiates Willsman's claim and no one has the integrity to acknowledge it.
    Seems a few are perfectly happy for UK MP's, representatives of their constituents NOT Israel, to spread Embassy sourced propaganda to undermine the position of their party regarding said 'bad news"(pick an issue, more settlements, another four thousand adults/kids crippled by IDF snipers-blame the victims.......) and see their colleagues smeared with claims of anti-semitism for exposing the influence..
    So its dismissed as Realpolitik when they are doing it and labelled anti-semitism when someone complains about it.
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
    maxflinn, Brian and Covkxw like this.
  4. Still

    Still he said his naim was ralph

    Not dismissed, and way to miss the point. UK, Israel and most other countries do similar. This is literally elementary stuff!

    Only when it's anti-Semitic.
  5. gassor

    gassor There may be more posts after this.

    Willsman blamed claims of anti-Semitism within the Labour Party on “Trump fanatics” within the Jewish community and claimed never to have seen any anti-Semitism within the party despite being on the Disputes Committee. Even Momentum has called on Labour members to call out those who deny the party has an antisemitism problem.
  6. ks.234

    ks.234 pfm Member

    Willsman said that the Israeli Embassy was behind the attacks on Jeremy Corbyn

    The Israeli Embassy was behind the attacks on Jeremy Corbyn.

    It's irrelevant if other countries including the UK do the same or similar, the point is that to point it out is not anti semitic
    maxflinn, Brian and Covkxw like this.
  7. ks.234

    ks.234 pfm Member

    Has Willsman denied that there is antisemitism in the Labour Party?
    Brian and Covkxw like this.
  8. gassor

    gassor There may be more posts after this.

    In his own words "It's almost certain who is behind all this anti-Semitism against Jeremy [Corbyn], almost certainly it's the Israeli embassy."
  9. cooky1257

    cooky1257 pfm Member

    Really so can you show me the corresponding groups of say Friends of Russia in US Congress or maybe Friends of Myanmar in the Indian parliament or maybe Friends of UK in the Argentine parliament who are primed with embassy propaganda to counter 'bad news'...lets not forget the utter disgust pro Botha's South Africa groups/members are now held

    So all accusations are copper bottomed accurate undeniable and true 100%.
    maxflinn and Brian like this.
  10. ks.234

    ks.234 pfm Member

    How is that denying there is antisemitism in the Labour Party?
  11. Cav

    Cav pfm Member

    maxflinn, Brian and ks.234 like this.
  12. gassor

    gassor There may be more posts after this.

    He is downplaying the problem by denying that Labour has an internal problem and suggesting that the cause of it lies somewhere else. Billy Bragg said: “You can’t deal with a problem if you don’t believe it exists. Pete Willsman has sat through a Labour disputes meeting at which the majority of cases pertained to antisemitism. How can he claim to have never seen evidence of it? He should stand down now.”
  13. ks.234

    ks.234 pfm Member

    But in your quote, he's not claiming he's seen nothing and he's not downplaying AS. He's saying that some of the antisemitism as directed at Jeremy Corby may have something to do with the Israeli Embassy. He's identified two separate issues, AS in the Labour Party and attacks on Corbyn. Because he is talking about the latter doesn't mean he is denying the former
    maxflinn, Brian and Covkxw like this.
  14. gassor

    gassor There may be more posts after this.

    You say that he is not downplaying anti-semitism, the video below says different.

    Explosive audio of Peter Willsman’s angry rant - at the meeting attended by Mr Corbyn where Labour’s ruling body approved a controversial new code of conduct on antisemitism – also shows he angrily demanded 68 rabbis, who warned Jew-hate had become "severe and widespread" within the party, provide evidence.

    Listen to the recording below

    He says on the recording: "We should ask the 70 rabbis ‘where is your evidence of severe and widespread antisemitism in this Party?’”

    Mr Willsman then demands those at the National Executive Committee (NEC) meeting raise their hands if they have “seen” antisemitism in Labour and then suggested he was “amazed” that some said they had.
  15. cooky1257

    cooky1257 pfm Member

    Asking for /demanding evidence to substantiate (quite a claim) that jew hate is severe and widespread in the Labour Party is anti-Semitic?
    'Demanding"( how do you demand a show of hands?)people who've seen AS to raise their hands is anti-Semitic?
    He isn't downplaying anything, he's challenging the accusation it is severe and widespread and as any normal person let alone a lifetime campaigner against all forms of racism, would, asks to see the evidence.
    We read upthread the big guns letter from Hodge et al with three, one would assume, of the most egregious and incontrovertible examples-only one of which(the cartoon) clearly breaches the IHRA guidelines, which raises the question wether they actually fully understand them.
    maxflinn and Brian like this.
  16. Still

    Still he said his naim was ralph

    You appear overwrought.

    Obviously not.
  17. ks.234

    ks.234 pfm Member

    Asking for evidence that AS widespread and institutional is not antisemitic and it is not the same as denying AS. I seem to remember it was your good self who some time ago said that just one case of AS in the LP was one case too many. It’s quite possible to agree with that whole heartedly and be passionate about fighting prejudice wherever it raises it’s ugly head, and also ask for evidence to support the allegation that AS is widespread and institutional.

    If AS is widespread and institutional why is it that it’s only Groups with an agenda against Corbyn that notice it? Why don’t groups not hostile to Corbyn notice it too?

    And if it is widespread and institutional, where is the evidence? Why can the BDBJ only name 2 cases, and both of those, on evidence that is at best questionable.

    Does AS exist in the LP? I’m sure it does and it should be dealt with rigorously regardless of the fact that bigotry is more prevalent in other parties.

    Is it widespread and institutional? I don’t know but I want to see some evidence before I agree it is. And good evidence that stands up to scrutiny (as opposed to endless articles just reasserting the allegations) is in short supply.
  18. AndyU

    AndyU pfm Member

    Vindictive opposition to the state of Israel has long pedigree in the Labour Party, at least since Ernest Bevin opposed holocaust survivors returning there. Jews fought him, and the British, and will continue to fight for Israel. Israel will survive, and will do whatever it takes to survive.
    doctorf likes this.
  19. Still

    Still he said his naim was ralph

    Possibly you've missed the news:

    Jeremy Corbyn has apologised for the “hurt” caused to Jewish people in Labour as his party published education materials to help members and supporters understand anti-Semitism.
    The leader of the Opposition admitted the party has a “real problem” with anti-Jewish racism, and said it had been too slow in processing disciplinary cases.

  20. gassor

    gassor There may be more posts after this.

    Labour has investigated 673 alleged cases and expelled 12 party members in 9 months, so unless you want to say they are maliciously guided 76 a month looks pretty widespread to most people. Then there is the leadership who have all agreed there is a significant problem to be tackled. The leader of Momentum (hardly a group opposed to Corbyn) has said the problem is widespread. And don't forget the Equalities Commission has found sufficient evidence to set up an investigation.

    As for Willsman said he was “sorry” and “deeply regretted” his behaviour. He added: “Having sat on the NEC for many years, I am of course aware of appalling instances of anti-Semitism within our party, and am wholly determined to rooting it out of our movement.

    In the video below he not asking for evidence, he is haranguing the Rabbis and then goes on to ask for examples of what he has clearly seen before ie instances of anti-Semitism within the party which is clearly dishonest to say the least.
    Still likes this.

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